SCSU vs BCC? SCSU is a better option for the SWAC and here’s why


Mr. SWAC said:
It's really up to TnSU to initiate a move to the SWAC. They'll need to start an exploratory commity to determine if it's worth the financial costs. I think FAMU to the SWAC now being official changes the calculus for TnSU, and they will seriously consider it. They owe it to themselves to at least look and see of it's in their best interests. If the numbers work out, I expect TnSU to announce a move within 1 year from now, and move to the SWAC in 2-3 years time. That's unless we accept another 12th member before then.
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My good friend is a TnSU alum so I befriended several TnSU alums ... they want to move to the SWAC. They never liked OVC culture and find the SWAC way more interesting.

Listen to the people!!
 

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What about Tarleton State they’re and FCS independent in Football. The rest of their sports are in the WAC. It would balance the divisions, and give us exposure near the metroplex.

Also, I don’t see TSU leaving the OVC. The whole reason FAMU left the MEAC was to save on travel. Why on earth would TSU leave for a conference that is much further away? They have the best or both worlds. They play their pick of HBCUs, they have a compact conference with 5 teams within 150 miles, the OVC is more competitive in both football and basketball, and they have a special exemption to play one less conference game than the rest of their OVC members.

TSU can play JSU very year and FAMU, AAMU or any other SWAC school whenever they want. But why would they trade trips to Texas for matchups that are right up the road? The only reason to move to the SWAC is cultural identification and as A&T and Hampton have shown, that’s not a top priority for presidents/ADs seeking to make a move.
 
number1 said:
Tell ULM to stop pretending and move on back down to FCS. lol
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You are right, they are a FBS in name only. But here in Monroe, they would think themselves better than SWAC, although their best attended games are against SWAC opponents. Realistically, ULM is a racist institution, and I believe they would rather drop all athletics than to drop back down to FCS, and they would never ever consider SWAC as an option.
 
BIG DAWG said:
What about Tarleton State they’re and FCS independent in Football. The rest of their sports are in the WAC. It would balance the divisions, and give us exposure near the metroplex.

Also, I don’t see TSU leaving the OVC. The whole reason FAMU left the MEAC was to save on travel. Why on earth would TSU leave for a conference that is much further away? They have the best or both worlds. They play their pick of HBCUs, they have a compact conference with 5 teams within 150 miles, the OVC is more competitive in both football and basketball, and they have a special exemption to play one less conference game than the rest of their OVC members.

TSU can play JSU very year and FAMU, AAMU or any other SWAC school whenever they want. But why would they trade trips to Texas for matchups that are right up the road? The only reason to move to the SWAC is cultural identification and as A&T and Hampton have shown, that’s not a top priority for presidents/ADs seeking to make a move.
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They're not making any money off those games. At some point, their leadership will have to listen to their people. Every TSU alum I know wants out of the OVC and what they save in travel is lost during football season.
 
BIG DAWG said:
Also, I don’t see TSU leaving the OVC. The whole reason FAMU left the MEAC was to save on travel. Why on earth would TSU leave for a conference that is much further away? They have the best or both worlds. They play their pick of HBCUs, they have a compact conference with 5 teams within 150 miles, the OVC is more competitive in both football and basketball, and they have a special exemption to play one less conference game than the rest of their OVC members.
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What they would have to explore is money. Would they make more money in the OVC or in the SWAC? Also, they've been pretty mediocre in the conference the last few years, ranking at or near the bottom of the OVC commissioner's cup rankings. That can be just as damaging, as your alumni support and stature continue going down.

Tennessee State's football attendance has steadily declined too:
2019: 8,787 avg.
2018: 10,422 avg.
2017: 12,080 avg.
2016: 13,778 avg.

Notice a trend? The OVC has been great for proximity, but as of now, is bad for prosperity. Coming to the SWAC would really give them a shot in the arm, and IMO raise their profile nationally, because the SWAC would be a conference like no other in FCS. We are autonomous, and can make our own rules like P5 conferences.

The commissioner already stated he'd like to one day see the SWAC make a move to FBS. It's feasible if we're all in the same conference together. That prospect has to be enticing to Tennessee State's administration. Or they can stay in the OVC...
 
For those hoping TSU gets the invite, does that mean the end of the SHC?

I imagine there will be some thoughts of making JSU/TSU home and home although it would hard to kill a top 5 classic even both schools could make more doing a home and home
 
Mr. SWAC said:
What they would have to explore is money. Would they make more money in the OVC or in the SWAC? Also, they've been pretty mediocre in the conference the last few years, ranking at or near the bottom of the OVC commissioner's cup rankings. That can be just as damaging, as your alumni support and stature continue going down.

Tennessee State's football attendance has steadily declined too:
2019: 8,787 avg.
2018: 10,422 avg.
2017: 12,080 avg.
2016: 13,778 avg.

Notice a trend? The OVC has been great for proximity, but as of now, is bad for prosperity. Coming to the SWAC would really give them a shot in the arm, and IMO raise their profile nationally, because the SWAC would be a conference like no other in FCS. We are autonomous, and can make our own rules like P5 conferences.

The commissioner already stated he'd like to one day see the SWAC make a move to FBS. It's feasible if we're all in the same conference together. That prospect has to be enticing to Tennessee State's administration. Or they can stay in the OVC...
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This may be something that Hampton and North Carolina A&T may encounter down the road.
 
SWAC Schools
AAMU: 115 mi (2 hrs)
ASU: 280 mi (4 hrs)
MVSU: 346 mi (5 hrs)
UAPB: 356 mi (5.5 hrs)
JSU: 415 mi (6 hrs) [for all other sports]
Alcorn: 482 mi (7.5 hrs)
FAMU: 491 mi (7.5 hrs)
GSU: 516 mi (8 hrs)
SU: 589 mi (8 hrs)
TxSU: 779 mi (11.5 hrs)
PVAMU: 803 mi (12 hrs)
Total: 5,172 miles (470 avg)*
Total: 4,266 miles (429 avg.)**

* non-football sports
** football season

OVC Schools
Belmont: 3 mi (10 min)
APSU: 49 mi (1 hr)
TTU: 83 mi (1.5 hr)
Murray St: 120 mi (2 hrs)
UT-Martin: 151 mi (2.5 hrs)
SE Mo St: 204 mi (3.5 hrs)
EKU: 226 mi (3.5 hrs)
JxSU: 226 mi (3.5 hrs)
Morehead: 280 mi (4 hrs)
EIU: 281 mi (5 hrs)
SIUE: 310 mi (4.5 hrs)
Total: 1,933 (175 avg)

Clearly the OVC is exponentially better that the SWAC is geographically, and I don't think there is another D1 conference out there with better proximity between its member institutions. It's what you dream of as an AD. All I can say here is that in the SWAC we'd cut down on travel costs by keeping the East/West divisions, but Alcorn would have to move to the West. That would decrease the average distance between the East division opponents down to 329.4 miles/opponent, and if you factor for football (SHC and playing FAMU in ATL) would decrease to 240.2 average miles. That's not a bad selling point, especially if your attendance #s return to 2016 levels. Playing 2-3 opponents from the other division shouldn't be as stressful on the budget anymore. It could work.
 
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In_The_662 said:
For those hoping TSU gets the invite, does that mean the end of the SHC?

I imagine there will be some thoughts of making JSU/TSU home and home although it would hard to kill a top 5 classic even both schools could make more doing a home and home
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the MCC didn’t end when AAMU joined the SWAC..they can still play in Memphis every year.

We all want TnSU in the SWAC. JSU may vote nay on it with the how lopsided that rivalry is though
 
With FAMU. I did my own study it was a no brainer for them to join the SWAC. They saved 3 hours on travel for the average opponent. Then with the SWAC having an EAST and WEST division it would have been really beneficial to FAMU to join. However for Tennessee St., South Carolina St., and Bethune-Cookman it is a different story. Bethune-Cookman would have added 1 hour of travel to their already long travel especially since they are on the end of the MEAC map. South Carolina St. would have added 2 hours by joining the SWAC. Tennessee St. would have added over 3 hours of travel joining the SWAC. Their farthest away opponent in the OVC is no more than a 4.5 hour drive. I would love Tennessee St. to join especially with their history with SWAC schools. However, it would only be beneficial to Tennessee St. if their revenues increase because their travel budget is going to skyrocket.
 
tierre said:
With FAMU. I did my own study it was a no brainer for them to join the SWAC. They saved 3 hours on travel for the average opponent. Then with the SWAC having an EAST and WEST division it would have been really beneficial to FAMU to join. However for Tennessee St., South Carolina St., and Bethune-Cookman it is a different story. Bethune-Cookman would have added 1 hour of travel to their already long travel especially since they are on the end of the MEAC map. South Carolina St. would have added 2 hours by joining the SWAC. Tennessee St. would have added over 3 hours of travel joining the SWAC. Their farthest away opponent in the OVC is no more than a 4.5 hour drive. I would love Tennessee St. to join especially with their history with SWAC schools. However, it would only be beneficial to Tennessee St. if their revenues increase because their travel budget is going to skyrocket.
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True these trips to Texas would kill their budget. Right now they can drive to any conference game and come home that night. Not to mention these 10 hour trips would also be required for non revenue sports as well.

One thing about TSU if you look at their OOC sled they don’t have to play a lot of these unwinnable money games to make budget. They play MTSU, GA State, Vandy, schools that are close who they might be able to slip up on from time to time.

Yet they still play 3 HBCUs a year any way. As much as I would love to have them in the SWAC, if I was them i wouldn’t do it.If it don’t make dollars it don’t make sense!
 
BIG DAWG said:
Yet they still play 3 HBCUs a year any way.
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And those 3 HBCUs are usually their highest attended games.

As someone has posted, their attendance is declining (in part due to mediocre football) so how long will they continue to convince themselves that the OVC is the better spot when they've had a 3 decade case study on the matter. TSU is not where A&T is at and never really been there (A&T is gonna get their wake up call 1-2 years in the Big South and those 15,000 people games against NSU are replaced by 8K games against Charleston Southern.
 
In_The_662 said:
And those 3 HBCUs are usually their highest attended games.

As someone has posted, their attendance is declining (in part due to mediocre football) so how long will they continue to convince themselves that the OVC is the better spot when they've had a 3 decade case study on the matter. TSU is not where A&T is at and never really been there (A&T is gonna get their wake up call 1-2 years in the Big South and those 15,000 people games against NSU are replaced by 8K games against Charleston Southern.
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Have you ever seen our attendance for games not played in September against MEAC foes not named NCCU?

Our attendance is predicated on weather, homecoming and rivalry. Most of the MEAC teams we’ve played (sans NCCU, Howard and SC State) don’t draw that well for us outside of Homecoming (GHOE).

As long as we win, our attendance will be the same as it’s been.
 
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Tennessee State is the only one that already checks all of the boxes. Like FAMU, they already have established rivalries with several of our member institutions. They have a storied history in their athletic program. The Aristocrat of Bands definitely enhances our band lineup. Nashville is another metropolitan city with a lot to offer during a football weekend. They are a perfect fit.
 
TSU is winning the travel game but they're losing at the gate. Attendance for their home games are not good unless it's homecoming or another hbcu. I'm good friends with one their biggest boosters and he's trying to start momentum to get them to make the move. Under the leadership of our commissioner, our conference is stable financially and trending upward. I think TSU is an hbcu in an pwi conference that will never be better than middle of the pack. Our conference gives them an opportunity to get in the black immediately with the current football championship format. Any team the gets the opportunity to do what Alcorn has done the last two years wins. TSU will never get that opportunity in the OVC. And they will continue to be behind the eight ball.
 
Mr. SWAC said:
Tennessee State's football attendance has steadily declined too:
2019: 8,787 avg.
2018: 10,422 avg.
2017: 12,080 avg.
2016: 13,778 avg.

Notice a trend? The OVC has been great for proximity, but as of now, is bad for prosperity. Coming to the SWAC would really give them a shot in the arm, and IMO raise their profile nationally, because the SWAC would be a conference like no other in FCS. We are autonomous, and can make our own rules like P5 conferences.
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Look at TSU’s attendance in light of their W/L record:

2019: 8,787 avg. (3-9)
2018: 10,422 avg. (4-5)
2017: 12,080 avg. (6-5)
2016: 13,778 avg. (7-4)

They have been in the same conference the last 4 years. So y’all tell me is it the alumni don’t like the conference opponents or do they not like the product on the field?
 
Fair point, but look at their highest attended home games last year.

Vs APSU 16,389 (Homecoming)
Vs MVSU 13,458 (JMC)
Vs UAPB 8,683
Vs Murray St 5,324
Vs SE Mo St 4,738
Vs EIU 4,131

HBCU opponents and HC are the highest attended games. Looks to me that the alumni prefer HBCU opponents better. Imagine if they were playing FAMU, AAMU, Alcorn, or SU playing for those home games.
 
Mr. SWAC said:
Fair point, but look at their highest attended home games last year.

Vs APSU 16,389 (Homecoming)
Vs MVSU 13,458 (JMC)
Vs UAPB 8,683
Vs Murray St 5,324
Vs SE Mo St 4,738
Vs EIU 4,131

HBCU opponents and HC are the highest attended games. Looks to me that the alumni prefer HBCU opponents better. Imagine if they were playing FAMU, AAMU, Alcorn, or SU playing for those home games.
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Plus them moving most of their home games back on campus could really help out especially when they play HBCUs
 
Mr. SWAC said:
Fair point, but look at their highest attended home games last year.

Vs APSU 16,389 (Homecoming)
Vs MVSU 13,458 (JMC)
Vs UAPB 8,683
Vs Murray St 5,324
Vs SE Mo St 4,738
Vs EIU 4,131

HBCU opponents and HC are the highest attended games. Looks to me that the alumni prefer HBCU opponents better. Imagine if they were playing FAMU, AAMU, Alcorn, or SU playing for those home games.
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I can see that but notice outside of HC, to look at time of year these games were played. They had good crowds early in the year when their fans were still optimistic. They fell off after it was clear they were in for a losing season. A six game losing streak will definitely tank your attendance.

I agree with you, attendance would be bette did they played the schools you mentioned above. But they can play them without joining. Honestly, I think that’s on the AD. I don’t know why they stopped playing FAMU in ATL and inviting us the the JMC. Those games were well attended.
 
From a business standpoint, I don't see a reason for Tenn State to leave the OVC at this point. Maybe, that looks different in 5 years but if I was calling the shots, its not a move I would make.
 
The question is simple. Does fans support increase enough to offset travel cost?

If Tennessee State has to win, I don’t see that happening any time soon. Maybe a good year once a decade. They are average at best in their conference if that. Athletically irrelevant in either hbcu or pwi spaces. They get to play a few hbcu’s a year. Congrats. Ask their actual alums what their preference is and not some internet board poster who can rationalize the travel schedule without seeing the attrition of their fan base.
 
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tsugraytiger said:
Their enrollment didn't go under 1K ... where you get that from. SCSU is in decent standing, it will never go under b/c it's a public institution. Some of the private ones are in jeopardy of failing. Tennessee State is my vote for the next SWAC addition.

I don't see FAMU leaving for BCS in the next 10-15 years. Right now FAMU is not very competitive in most sports. But so glad to see FAMU join us, it's something I wanted for a very long time.
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I agree. FAMU and SWAC relationship is for atleast 15 years.
 
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