What is the MEAC fascination with going to the Div. I-AA playoffs?


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PNeck019 said:
Well that settles it then. The SWAC truly is superior.

The undisputed 12-1 BCF champs beat a 7-4, 4th-place in the Big Sky, non-playoff team by one point.

(Insert Mighty Dog-ish "refs cheat for the white boys" comment here.)

PNeck I am sure you know or should know that both ICON Grambling and Portland were ranked when they played each other early in 2001. It was the 3rd or 4th game of the season. You make it seem as if Grambling approached Portland state because we knew before the game we were going to win.
 
Can any of you tell me about the bid process? Doesn't the host school have to give a guarantee percentage to the NCAA?
 

TheReporter said:
But the majority of people couldn't name six of the conference's 10 schools.
Do you think that makes the SWAC different from other 1AA conferences.
I shole don't, because I certainly don't believe that "the majority of people could name most of the teams in the Southland Conference, the OVC, or the Southern Conference either?
 
MikeBigg said:
Can any of you tell me about the bid process? Doesn't the host school have to give a guarantee percentage to the NCAA?

The host school has to guarantee $30,000 for a first round game, $40,000 for a 2nd round game, and $50,000 for a semifinal game. The NCAA also gets a percentage of the revenue after the guarantees have been met. Even with those guarantees, host schools can make money if a good crowd shows up. The problem comes in travelling on the road, the NCAA only reimburses expenses for up to 100 travellers. For an HBCU, that would mean having to foot the bill for cheerleaders, band, and other non-football positions such as the administration.
 
TheReporter said:
STC,

I think you're missing the big picture here. When was the last time a SWAC school played a I-A powerhouse in front of 90,000 fans?
I'll give you a little while to answer, but I can tell you the last time Georgia Southern did. They played this small time school named Georgia a couple of months ago. That's an extra $500,000 in their pockets. I'd be willing to bet that it more than covers their playoff expenses for the next five years.
That's what I, and others, are talking about when we say that the playoffs provide exposure. It's not instantaneous exposure. It's something that's gained over a period of time.

And no one outside of those directly involved with the SWAC and its fans know anything about the conference. Sure, some people might be able to toss out the names of a few conference schools and others might even know that Steve McNair played at Alcorn. But the majority of people couldn't name six of the conference's 10 schools.

And that's a shame. It would seem to me, for all the grief this conference gets for all of its shortcomings, any chance at positive exposure would be jumped on.

I would say outside of the Ivy League - most people would not be able to tell you anything about Division 1AA conferences, football or its schools.
 
:bowdown:
KCPVPanther said:
I want to go on record that I think the SWAC should be playing the D-1 AA Playoffs for a number of reasons.

1) By participating in the playoffs it removes the stigma that we can't compete with other Div 1AA teams. I believe that it would raise the level of competion and overall program administration not to just compete in the SWAC but to compete with other academic institutions that are non black but our peers. Right now our athletics are seen as less then other D1AA teams. Remember this is what drove Doug to leave. Administrators don't have to commit to really bringing a first class athletic program when all of the programs are second and third class when in comparison to other non SWAC, non MEAC schools.

2) It gives our football coaches exposure. There is no reason why that Pete Richardson has not had a chance to go and be a head coach at D1A school. I believe it is mainly because we as a league don't play outside our division. They don't give stock in the wins that he obtains.

3) Money can't be the issue. Southern and Grambling both make more money than other Division 1AA programs that have better football teams. That means that our failure as the SWAC is systematic. The only way to succeed is to be challenged. The first SWAC school that changes thier athletic system will be the univ. that dominates.

4) I think the 1AA playoffs are in their infancy in terms of exposure. As TV programming degrades and cable outlets increase, programmers need more shows. Athletics are the best show going. I see the playoffs creating a niche like arena football. We need to be involved before it is too late.

5) Let's face it, does anyone really care about the SWAC championship game.

KCPVPanther


I agree 100%... You could not of said it better....... :bowdown:
 
thedesr said:
:bowdown:


I agree 100%... You could not of said it better....... :bowdown:


Based on attendance - I would say no one cares about the Playoffs outside of the involved parties.
 
the way that folks here love to post attendance figures, i think that a SWAC entry in the form of Southern, Jackson State, Grambling, Alabama A & M, et cetera would make for some very well-attended playoff games

we've had some very interesting discussions on this topic - as recently as a few weeks ago - on meacfans.com

about the only significant argument i have read against the playoffs has come from Jafus
 
mighty hornet said:
Do you think that makes the SWAC different from other 1AA conferences.
I shole don't, because I certainly don't believe that "the majority of people could name most of the teams in the Southland Conference, the OVC, or the Southern Conference either?

Technically, the majority of people couldnt name 6 teams in the D1aa playoffs this season.
 
I see that we all have varying opinions on this issue...

Personally, I'd like to see the SWAC get back into the 1-AA playoffs, if only for the simple fact of us being competitive... I think we (by and large) have never believed in our 'product' enough to make a serious run for the 1-AA championship. Take JSU for example. We've been to the 1-AA playoffs 11 times and lost every time. And in most of those years, the emphasis was always put on winning the SWAC, and beating Alcorn. And by the time the playoffs rolled-around, our guys were banged-up from having given their ALL against Alcorn. The emphasis was never on going to the playoffs. It was always on Alcorn. So I think our 'focus' has to change.

I'd like to see the SWAC make a 5-year committment to playing in the playoffs. It certainly coulsn't hurt anybody. We could lobby the NCAA to push the start of the playoffs back a week, and then focus on sending as many teams to the playoffs as possible, maybe the East and West champs, and whoever else. And we could bud on hosting 1st round games. And we can see how we stack-up.

And then after five years, evaluate the situation financially. If we did better playing in the playoffs, then we stick with it. And if not, then we go back to doing what we do now.....

But we shouldn't be afraid to try it again....
 
Storm96 said:
Technically, the majority of people couldnt name 6 teams in the D1aa playoffs this season.

I was referring to other I-AA schools, the people involved with other I-AA conferences and media outlets more than just average fans. (Not saying you guys are average.)

Allow me to let you all in on a secret here: With the SWAC attendance numbers and the records of some of the top teams, not only would you be in the playoffs, several of your teams would be hosting playoff games. And the money involved in the first round games is not that much less than what you get for the SWAC championship game. And the 100-person travel is used by the SWAC in dishing out travel money. The travel of the cheerleaders, band, etc. are all paid for by the participating schools.

Jag,

I think you made my point. Your conference is already churning out some great athletes. But I guarantee you that fans of every school can think of one guy that falls into the "this guy should be in the league but nobody knows anything about him" category. I think the I-AA playoffs would provide some great exposure for a lot of guys that might not get the attention.

Also, I would venture to guess that the reason those I-AA schools haven't placed as many players in the NFL would have something to do with the schools' history and the style of football they play.

The SWAC attracts a lot of top skill players because of the style of football played in the conference. If top I-A wide receivers or quarterbacks want to transfer or didn't make the grades for that level, where do you think they're gonna want to go? To Deleware where they're blocking for the running back or handing the ball off all day or to the SWAC where there's 35 passes a game?

Not to mention, SWAC football has been around for a lot longer than some of these other I-AA programs. And let's also not leave out the fact that a lot of these schools have A LOT of white guys who win games because they're fundamentally sound. Not because they're great athletes. In the talent department, the SWAC runs circles around most of these schools.

Finally, you all seem to be of the opinion that I think the I-AA playoffs provides the same amount of exposure as the NCAA basketball tournament or the BCS. Let me state here: It doesn't come close to getting the same exposure as the Poulan Weedeater Bowl.
But IT'S MORE than you're getting now. A lot more.
 
You make some interesting points Reporter. Interesting indeed.

But, as someone alluded to earlier and I'm in that same mindset, I think it boils down to what's economically most feasible and the council of idjits, I mean, non-athletic council of presidents make the call w/ the blessings of the SWAC FO.

Certainly would be nice to have it both ways. SWAC champ game as well as playoff participant. <b>I really</b> get the feeling that the national crooked alliance association (ncaa) could really give a care less about the SWAC not participating in the playoffs. If they did, something would've been done about it already. And that goes ditto for this conference as well. Right?
 

Panthro said:
<b>I really</b> get the feeling that the national crooked alliance association (ncaa) could really give a care less about the SWAC not participating in the playoffs. If they did, something would've been done about it already. And that goes ditto for this conference as well. Right?


I wish I knew what went into the decision to start the playoffs when they do.

I know they started with four teams and gradually expanded to the current 16.

Did they just keep the title game on the same weekend?

I think from the beginning the NCAA should have considered the long-standing Thanksgiving weekend games when deciding to start them then.

First-round games are always the worst-attended across the board. No students are on campus and folks have made plans way beforehand to be out of town.

If the playoffs started a week later, all the I-AA conferences could make that weekend a sort of rivalry week. That way you know there would be good crowds if everybody's playing their top rivals, i.e. Montana/Montana State and others.

Has any SWAC official ever tested the waters with the NCAA with regard to moving the playoffs back a week? With the current geographical system of first-round games, I know the NCAA would be interested in games like Northwestern State/Grambling or McNeese/Southern. I'd also Georgia Southern could bring a few folks to Montgomery.

I don't know what the story is behind the guarantee plus 75% either. I tend to think that the NCAA ain't making a mint off it and it's just a way of guaranteeing that the money for the travelling teams, officials, etc. will be there and that the I-AA tourney is self-sufficient.

I know the schools have sandbagged that rule to death though. They undercount so much it would make Memorial Stadium proud....lol
 
Don't rightly know Neck. I only have my opinion and my opinion is worth one dull penny to the SWAC FO and to the council of prezys who are ultimately supposed to regulate this conference (for whatever God forsaken reason the ADs are neutral on that :shame: ).

I'd like to have it both ways (to a certain extent). But still, it makes ME (personally) awfully jealous and awfully angry if I see Southern taking it's fan base to the likes of Jaxonville St vs bringing it to Houston so that we TOO can enjoy the fruits of their $$$$$$. Someone got smart and figured out the same. If the "bottom feeders," as some of you so eloquently referred to the ill-fan based SWAC schools, don't garner a game against the traditional SWAC "draws", we lose out on potential athletic supporting revenue ($$$$). And if we're not getting it and those other people are.... well.... :smh: So tell me, what sense does that make? Me thinks that the SWAC "draws" response is <b>put up or shut up bottom feeder. If you can't survive, get out the game altogether.</b> Sounds reasonable and also very realistic. But, if we're TRYING to come up and have no HELP coming up... lol
 
Panthro said:
Don't rightly know Neck. I only have my opinion and my opinion is worth one dull penny to the SWAC FO and to the council of prezys who are ultimately supposed to regulate this conference (for whatever God forsaken reason the ADs are neutral on that :shame: ).

I'd like to have it both ways (to a certain extent). But still, it makes ME (personally) awfully jealous and awfully angry if I see Southern taking it's fan base to the likes of Jaxonville St vs bringing it to Houston so that we TOO can enjoy the fruits of their $$$$$$. Someone got smart and figured out the same. If the "bottom feeders," as some of you so eloquently referred to the ill-fan based SWAC schools, don't garner a game against the traditional SWAC "draws", we lose out on potential athletic supporting revenue ($$$$). And if we're not getting it and those other people are.... well.... :smh: So tell me, what sense does that make? Me thinks that the SWAC "draws" response is <b>put up or shut up bottom feeder. If you can't survive, get out the game altogether.</b> Sounds reasonable and also very realistic. But, if we're TRYING to come up and have no HELP coming up... lol

Panthro,

You're right about one thing -- the council of presidents running the show is killing this conference. These guys are clueless about the needs of an athletic conference. And the fact that the SWAC commissioner bows down to these guys on every occasion doesn't help.

Where scheduling is concerned. If the SWAC would simply work out a schedule in which all DIVISION teams face each other and then have a two-game, rotating schedule with SWAC teams in the other divsion, things would be fine. Also, some scheduling changes on behalf of the SWAC would have to occur in order to set things up for the playoffs. Shuffling some things around and eliminating an off week for a few teams wouldn't hurt.

But the main issue is the SWAC office has to have a backbone. Set the schedule for the next season in January and stick to it. No shuffling around. Once it's set, that's the schedule and member schools just deal with it and schedule their non-conference games around it. Obviously, some things would have to be considered like long-running classics. But it could be done.

And economics aren't an issue here. You're still playing the same teams, making the same money and doing all the things you normally would. Only now, you've got the opportunity to venture into the playoffs.
 
TheReporter said:
Panthro,

You're right about one thing -- the council of presidents running the show is killing this conference. These guys are clueless about the needs of an athletic conference. And the fact that the SWAC commissioner bows down to these guys on every occasion doesn't help.

But the main issue is the SWAC office has to have a backbone. Set the schedule for the next season in January and stick to it. No shuffling around. Once it's set, that's the schedule and member schools just deal with it and schedule their non-conference games around it. Obviously, some things would have to be considered like long-running classics. But it could be done.

Co-sign most definitely!!!!!!
 
Ralph said:
Do you always post when you are under the influence? :) The I-AA Playoffs are the highest NCAA football championship. All NCAA Championships are run the same way but you single out football. Are you saying the SWAC should opt out of the NCAA altogether?

I am posting under the influnce of reality.Until the ncaa can show that is financially good for the swac to get in it do not try to con me with that crap. I see why dave chapelle said y'all are the ultimate hustlers. You8 have got to be kidding me right. Gram played sjs infront of a sellout crowd. We made mcneese have on of their best crowds ever. Wait til southern goes down ther next season. GSU vs. gerogia. Georgia is a bcs school. How do they fare agianst 1aa schools. ANY pwc against another tpwc would not touch the swac or meac. You can sell this big picture crap to others but not me. I am not agianst any team going to the playoffs but under th ecurrent system of money distribuition it is not wise. Someone pull that article that was on the swacpage about th last champin who only got a ring out of the deal or pull that article about mcneese crying about how th eplayoffs are more of a risk than reward. Ncaa wants to pimp everybody to sleep. pwc are sucked into this thing and wat hbcu's to get stuck like the meac is. Loosing money going to maine and the middel of nowhere to play a game. Sell that crap to someone else.
 
STC_60 said:
I am posting under the influnce of reality.Until the ncaa can show that is financially good for the swac to get in it do not try to con me with that crap. I see why dave chapelle said y'all are the ultimate hustlers. You8 have got to be kidding me right. Gram played sjs infront of a sellout crowd. We made mcneese have on of their best crowds ever. Wait til southern goes down ther next season. GSU vs. gerogia. Georgia is a bcs school. How do they fare agianst 1aa schools. ANY pwc against another tpwc would not touch the swac or meac. You can sell this big picture crap to others but not me. I am not agianst any team going to the playoffs but under th ecurrent system of money distribuition it is not wise. Someone pull that article that was on the swacpage about th last champin who only got a ring out of the deal or pull that article about mcneese crying about how th eplayoffs are more of a risk than reward. Ncaa wants to pimp everybody to sleep. pwc are sucked into this thing and wat hbcu's to get stuck like the meac is. Loosing money going to maine and the middel of nowhere to play a game. Sell that crap to someone else.

OK STC,

What's your plan? You've dismissed the playoffs as a no-money-making, the-white-NCAA-trying-to-shake-down-HBCUs waste of time. So, what do you do?
What's your plan to advance the conference? How would you like those in charge to increase revenues or attract media attention?

Because right now, the SWAC champion will walk out of Legion Field, shout that their No. 1, go home and watch the score scroll across the bottom of the TV screen and read a couple of stories about the game in the local paper.

And two days later, nobody will care.

Are you saying you're perfectly happy with this?
 
TheReporter said:
OK STC,

What's your plan? You've dismissed the playoffs as a no-money-making, the-white-NCAA-trying-to-shake-down-HBCUs waste of time. So, what do you do?
What's your plan to advance the conference? How would you like those in charge to increase revenues or attract media attention?

Because right now, the SWAC champion will walk out of Legion Field, shout that their No. 1, go home and watch the score scroll across the bottom of the TV screen and read a couple of stories about the game in the local paper.

And two days later, nobody will care.

Are you saying you're perfectly happy with this?

I see the point you're trying to make, but how is it any different for the I-AA playoffs? I-AA is a small fish in a big pond, for the most part people don't give it much attention. As was stated earlier, few people could name most of the teams that were in the playoffs this year. It's not like the I-AA champion will be on the front page of papers across the country either.
 
JaguarNation99 said:
I see the point you're trying to make, but how is it any different for the I-AA playoffs? I-AA is a small fish in a big pond, for the most part people don't give it much attention. As was stated earlier, few people could name most of the teams that were in the playoffs this year. It's not like the I-AA champion will be on the front page of papers across the country either.

Thank You, Nobody really does not care who wins the iaa championship at all. Folks act like like teh 1aa title is so great. I know my school will walking out of legion field with monwy in thier pocket instead of nothing like the 1aa pimp playoffs. It is not the white man trying to drain hbcu either. i know some of yo9u hate the playoffs and won't admit. Again i say pull upo that article about delawre aftr they won the title saying all they got was a ring and nothign else. Bring the heritage bowl back until theses folks get the money right. I know th epwc's are pissed at the playoffs and they should be for letting the ncaa pimps take everyhting from them. I don't want my hbcu selling thier soul for some cheap exposure when fox,nbc,mbc, and others keep giving us all the exposure we need. HBCU FOR LIFE!!!!!!!!!! NOBODY CAN TOUCH US !!!!!!!!11

ENVY IS A BAD THING FOLKS!!!!!!!!!!

68K IN THE DOME WITH A 5-5 TEAM
65K IN THE COTTON BOWL
65K MAGIC CITY CLASSIC
IT WON'T EVER STOP FOLKS!!!!!!!!!1
THEY JSUT HATE US CAUSE WE PIMPING THE SYSTEM AND NOT GETTING PIMPED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
JaguarNation99 said:
I see the point you're trying to make, but how is it any different for the I-AA playoffs? I-AA is a small fish in a big pond, for the most part people don't give it much attention. As was stated earlier, few people could name most of the teams that were in the playoffs this year. It's not like the I-AA champion will be on the front page of papers across the country either.

In another post, I said that the I-AA playoffs do not provide an instantaneous result. You're all right. The attendance at the games isn't great. The interest, compared to I-A ball, isn't in the same league. And the money isn't that good.

Let me tell you what Alabama State running back Keldrick Williams said about it. I think he put it best. "(The playoffs) show people that you're a legitimate team. People see us beat other conference schools or see that we're 8-1 or whatever but they don't know anything about us. On this level, your test is the playoffs. We don't have bowl games. Nobody cares about polls. You get in the playoffs and show people what you can do."

What he's saying, and what I've been trying to say, is that the playoffs show the rest of the country that you all have legitimate football programs in this conference. There's no other test for it.

All of the arguments that I've heard for not going deal with the short term. In the short term, you're not losing anything. Granted, you might not gain much either, but think about the long term. Think about what happens when some of your teams have successful playoff runs for several years. It opens up an entire new world to you.

Every year, numerous games are scheduled between I-A, big-time programs and I-AA schools. How do you suppose that happens? I can assure you that it's not luck. It's because those I-AA programs made a name for themselves with several solid performances in the playoffs. Once that starts happening, money starts being made at a staggering rate. The folks at Georgia Southern said this year's game with Georgia will pay its operating costs for more than half the season. HALF. Whatever else they make is money in their pockets. Oh, and did I mention that the Georgia-Georgia State game wasn't televised? So, that's just gate money.

Allow me to direct your attention to basketball for a minute. In the last few years, Alabama State has made a couple of trips to the NCAA Tournament. While they didn't bring home an earth-shattering amount of money, they added a level of legitimacy to their program. And the big payoff comes next Tuesday, when they HOST the University of Alabama. Do you think that happens if ASU plays a SWAC schedule, goes to the conference tournament and then goes home? Of course not. It happened because they got out there and took the only test that matters -- the NCAA Tournament.

And STC, I, and I would imagine the NCAA and every other I-AA school, wouldn't lose any sleep over the SWAC not going to the playoffs. As a matter of fact, most of the I-AA schools don't want you all there because it means one or two less spots for them.
You're acting as if I'm telling you that after a few years in the playoffs you're going to bump Notre Dame from its TV contract with NBC. You're always, no matter how good you are or what you do, going to be in the second and less publicized tier of the NCAA. But that's no reason not to get all you can.

Face it, the SWAC has several schools operating on a shoe-string budget. Pine Bluff, for example, just had to cancel its track team's season due to budget shortfalls. Prairie View isn't in great financial shape. A couple of years ago, Grambling was talking about shutting down. (Yes, I know it was it all talk and a bunch of scare tactics and there was never any real threat of GSU shutting down.) Now, is going to the playoffs going to solve those problems? No. Not even if one of your teams win the whole thing. But in the long run, it's going to help. A lot more than the SWAC championship game.

And why did you list all of those games? No one is talking about not playing the Bayou Classic or the Magic City Classic or any of the other profitable games between SWAC teams. The playoffs are in addition to those games. And why would you care if your school went to the playoffs and took a bunch of fans? Because the PWC that your team would be playing would benefit too? I hate to point out the obvious, but if the PWC team is making money, so is the HBCU team.
 
STC_60 said:
... Again i say pull upo that article about delawre aftr they won the title saying all they got was a ring and nothign else. ...
Yeah, bring that article up because Delaware officials told me they made money from the 2003 playoffs. Three home games.
 
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