Just Curious...
- Thread starter BluBlood
- Start date
Blacknbengal
Well-Known Member
Out of order! Probably a state of confusion.
JSTUS
THE WARHORSES!!!
Very true Mike.
There is an excellent article in GOSPEL TODAY magazine (FEB. 2002 issue) about women in the ministry. Check it out if y'all get a chance. It talks about Yolanda Adams, Cece Winans, and Vicki Winans. It stresses how if you are an artist, people are more acceptable to you delivering the word of God as a woman.
Blacknbengal
Well-Known Member
I LOVE CECE!!!!!!!!! What is her real name?? I never knew her real name.
Blacknbengal
Well-Known Member
So, is she now running the business part or is BEBE still helping her out on that portion?
Blacknbengal
Well-Known Member
That's MY girl!!!!!! 
Do your thang!!!!!!
Do your thang!!!!!!
BluBlood
"Mississippi Woman"
Yes, a lot of Baptists do not allow female ministers. Simply from the misinterpretation of these scriptures.
1 Corinthians 14:33-35
For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
1 Timothy 2:11-13
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
1 Corinthians 14:33-35
For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
1 Timothy 2:11-13
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
Blacknbengal
Well-Known Member
Alot of people need to study up on that scripture. Someone recently explained that scripture to me and why Paul wrote it like that.
docmump
The Arch Nemesis
NO! NO! NO!
I am Baptist. and it not because of a "MISINTERPETATATION" of these scriptures.
Blu, The reasons why some (key word, SOME) lets say churches dont believe in female ministers are:
1. How can a female pastor have a wife??
A female pastor must be a husband to one wife. Unless you take it the "in general" way. Meaning, when Paul wrote about husband, he meant Man and Woman respectfully.
2. How can a female pastor be married and be the physical leader over a church?
She can't how can a woman be submissive at home and be the physical leader of the church away from home. That is hypocritical.
We can discuss this more, if you want. I am very open minded about this subject. I just believe people are confussing evanglist with Pastoring, Minister, or being a Bishop.
I am Baptist. and it not because of a "MISINTERPETATATION" of these scriptures.
Blu, The reasons why some (key word, SOME) lets say churches dont believe in female ministers are:
1. How can a female pastor have a wife??
A female pastor must be a husband to one wife. Unless you take it the "in general" way. Meaning, when Paul wrote about husband, he meant Man and Woman respectfully.
2. How can a female pastor be married and be the physical leader over a church?
She can't how can a woman be submissive at home and be the physical leader of the church away from home. That is hypocritical.
We can discuss this more, if you want. I am very open minded about this subject. I just believe people are confussing evanglist with Pastoring, Minister, or being a Bishop.
nevaehinvesting
Active Member
docmump,
That was a good post. I guess people may always be 'divided' when it comes to the interpretation of scripture, especially this subject.
Just a thought, of course ALL of God's Word is complete Truth....when the bible says for a woman to submit to her man as her man submits to the Lord, I wouldn't think that she would be bound to the submission command IF her husband was not submitting to the Lord himself, according to that scripture. That means that a woman can be non-submissive & still be in God's Will. She submits only when He first submits.
When the bible talks about a woman not having authority over a man, the idea is that the man is rulling as He Should rule. When that's not the case and the man is not ruling as he Should, I believe that God will use whoever is willing nd ready. We're told to "Praise God" according to scripture, but IF WE DON'T, "The Rocks will cry out" according to scripture. The original command is not for rocks to praise God but if the person whom He first chooses to praise Him for some reason decides not to, God will use something or someone else.
Of course, The ideal situation is that men follow God & have the authority:
I Timothy 2:11-13 "women should learn in silence with subjection, not over a man,...Adam was formed first, then Eve."
I don't think that this scripture should be as literal as some take it because the Lord has ordained a woman to have complete authority over men before.(read about deborah, leader of God's peopole) Plus if it was to be taken literally, we shouldn't find any places in the bible from the time of Adam and Eve where God ordained a woman to lead His people.
God told a man to obey Him & go somewhere alone, he wouldn't go unless Deborah went with him according to the story in the book of Chronicles. Where there's weak men, God will always and has always raised up a strong woman,(& even donkeys!) regardless of what position needs to be filled.
The scripture Timothy also says for women not to wear braids in their hair or any gold. Is that to be taken literal, or is God trying to show us a deeper PRINCIPLE?
Of course, I could be completely wrong but I feel that this is the understanding that God has given to me on this subject so I'm not mad at the women representing for Jesus in any and in every way. I Love Joyce Myers!
nevaehinvesting
That was a good post. I guess people may always be 'divided' when it comes to the interpretation of scripture, especially this subject.
Just a thought, of course ALL of God's Word is complete Truth....when the bible says for a woman to submit to her man as her man submits to the Lord, I wouldn't think that she would be bound to the submission command IF her husband was not submitting to the Lord himself, according to that scripture. That means that a woman can be non-submissive & still be in God's Will. She submits only when He first submits.
When the bible talks about a woman not having authority over a man, the idea is that the man is rulling as He Should rule. When that's not the case and the man is not ruling as he Should, I believe that God will use whoever is willing nd ready. We're told to "Praise God" according to scripture, but IF WE DON'T, "The Rocks will cry out" according to scripture. The original command is not for rocks to praise God but if the person whom He first chooses to praise Him for some reason decides not to, God will use something or someone else.
Of course, The ideal situation is that men follow God & have the authority:
I Timothy 2:11-13 "women should learn in silence with subjection, not over a man,...Adam was formed first, then Eve."
I don't think that this scripture should be as literal as some take it because the Lord has ordained a woman to have complete authority over men before.(read about deborah, leader of God's peopole) Plus if it was to be taken literally, we shouldn't find any places in the bible from the time of Adam and Eve where God ordained a woman to lead His people.
God told a man to obey Him & go somewhere alone, he wouldn't go unless Deborah went with him according to the story in the book of Chronicles. Where there's weak men, God will always and has always raised up a strong woman,(& even donkeys!) regardless of what position needs to be filled.
The scripture Timothy also says for women not to wear braids in their hair or any gold. Is that to be taken literal, or is God trying to show us a deeper PRINCIPLE?
Of course, I could be completely wrong but I feel that this is the understanding that God has given to me on this subject so I'm not mad at the women representing for Jesus in any and in every way. I Love Joyce Myers!
nevaehinvesting
Blacknbengal
Well-Known Member
This can go on longer than the Iran-Iraq war over this topic.
MikeBigg
Well-Known Member
Please do not take offense. However, let us consider that a lot of these new testament scriptures comes from the Apostle Paul. Paul himself was often at odds with the original twelve disciples of Christ and was often wont to render his own interpretations.
I'm not refuting anything in the Bible, and I'm sure that no one else is claiming to be the authority on Biblical facts, but I honestly think that Paul's interpretations and renderings were influenced by the policies of that era as much as divine guidance. You must remember that Paul lived in the Middle East who's culture was no pro-woman in the least.
However, notice that although Christ did not have women among the original 12 (that would have caused great unrest and confusion), he did have women who were among his followers. Did not he reveal himself (following crucifixtion) to the women first and instruct them to to and tell my brethren that they go into Galilee and there shall they see me. We see from this Scripture that women were the first to bear witness to Christ's resurrection from the dead.
I'm not refuting anything in the Bible, and I'm sure that no one else is claiming to be the authority on Biblical facts, but I honestly think that Paul's interpretations and renderings were influenced by the policies of that era as much as divine guidance. You must remember that Paul lived in the Middle East who's culture was no pro-woman in the least.
However, notice that although Christ did not have women among the original 12 (that would have caused great unrest and confusion), he did have women who were among his followers. Did not he reveal himself (following crucifixtion) to the women first and instruct them to to and tell my brethren that they go into Galilee and there shall they see me. We see from this Scripture that women were the first to bear witness to Christ's resurrection from the dead.
Blacknbengal
Well-Known Member
Biggs, I agree with you. But, with certain people this could be an issue that goes on until Christ comes back.
docmump
The Arch Nemesis
Mike,
No offense taken. Lets Discuss
No offense taken. Lets Discuss
True, Paul was at odds with the disciples, only because he was originally a prosecutor of Christians. That is what he did until he was converted. He was so good at prosecuting the Christians that many did not believe him until after his baptism.
True, a great definition of evangelism, not a call to the ministry. Also, they were the tomb to place the spices Luke 24:1 and Mark 16:1. and true Jesus told them he was not there.
Jaguar Diehard
Active Member
First of all let me apologize for re-inventing the wheel...
on the RoundTable board. I didn't know that a forum was already established on this issue.
Now my take on some of these scriptures. I believe that a lot of what was stated in the Bible dealt with the situation and conditions at hand. There were laws and customs in effect that dealt with the responsibilities of men and women with the women playing subservient roles. Now there are also scriptures where slavemasters justified slavery to our forefathers. What about those?
Jesus taught us to look at the principles of what God wanted from us. Did not the women wash the feet of the men as they entered into the house? Did not Jesus himself do this in the upper room? I think that the underlying principles out weigh these quotes.
The 1st Timothy scriptures are the explanation I have heard, but SOME men do not run their households now, so how can we depend upon SOME of them to run the church? How do you let known adulterers, alcoholics and crack heads sit in the pulpit when you KNOW that is what they are doing, but refuse to let a good Christian woman who has been called by God to do the same? Is it not the duty of the BISHOP to oversee the church and it's religious administration (i.e., associate pastors, evangelists, etc.)? I am not well schooled in the Bible as many of my friends, but I do know that a lot of what happens in the Bible has background information relevant to the individuals, the land, and the actual interpretation of the Greek or Judaic words used by the speaker or the writer.
A message of hope and salvation can come from a child. I just hope that we listen and not get caught up in whether it was a boy or a girl child.
on the RoundTable board. I didn't know that a forum was already established on this issue.
Now my take on some of these scriptures. I believe that a lot of what was stated in the Bible dealt with the situation and conditions at hand. There were laws and customs in effect that dealt with the responsibilities of men and women with the women playing subservient roles. Now there are also scriptures where slavemasters justified slavery to our forefathers. What about those?
Jesus taught us to look at the principles of what God wanted from us. Did not the women wash the feet of the men as they entered into the house? Did not Jesus himself do this in the upper room? I think that the underlying principles out weigh these quotes.
The 1st Timothy scriptures are the explanation I have heard, but SOME men do not run their households now, so how can we depend upon SOME of them to run the church? How do you let known adulterers, alcoholics and crack heads sit in the pulpit when you KNOW that is what they are doing, but refuse to let a good Christian woman who has been called by God to do the same? Is it not the duty of the BISHOP to oversee the church and it's religious administration (i.e., associate pastors, evangelists, etc.)? I am not well schooled in the Bible as many of my friends, but I do know that a lot of what happens in the Bible has background information relevant to the individuals, the land, and the actual interpretation of the Greek or Judaic words used by the speaker or the writer.
A message of hope and salvation can come from a child. I just hope that we listen and not get caught up in whether it was a boy or a girl child.