Diwali Message from President Obama


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RB

Did I say Christ “copied†anything from other religions?

I said that wherever He lived more than likely had an influence on Him. The only difference between Christianity and most other religious beliefs is that “Christ†died for the sins of everyone. Are you saying that Jesus lived several years in Egypt as a child and he was not influenced in one way or another by the Egyptian Culture? Are you saying the same about Moses and the other Hebrews that spent 300 year in Egypt and they were not influenced by the same Culture?

Other than a few other things that are basically the same, especially Judaism, due to the fact the Hebrews / Jews worshipped several false gods, to include Moloch; Nehushtan; Nergal; Nisroch and other Babylonian gods [Read 1 & 2 Kings]

Yes, I know what the word anyone means, however the text “anyone’ is referring to the “anyone†teaching / preaching false doctrine. My question remain has Obama approached your home in the manner I previously mentioned.

Health Care, “I don’t know what bible you are reading†but the scriptures and lessons from Jesus does not support your comment on Health Care. Who is responsible for providing health care, to those that cannot afford health care?

Even Jesus said that “you will always have the poor with you†Matthew 26:11

Question: Did Jesus help those that had health related issues; hungry; mental illness; suffering, yes or no. in fact, figuratively speaking, He was the first to offer “Public Assistance / Welfareâ€

You continue to use Jesus as an example; here we have Jesus not only as the Savior, but as a Public Servant a representative of the Kingdom and a Doctor “Providing Health Care and Counseling†are you saying that He was wrong? Do you think, He has a problem with Obama attempting to provide Health Care for the citizens of the United States, after all He provided the same “Health Care and Counseling?â€

So what is the purpose of the government? Even Jesus recognize the authority of “Human Government†It’s apparent that you are not as well versed in the Bible as you “think†Look and Learn, the bible: The government is responsible for “Just to name a fewâ€:

General welfare of citizens: vindicate the afflicted, care for needy - Ps. 72:4; compassion for poor and needy - Ps. 72:12 - 13; “public health and education, benevolent activities?

Psalms: Solomon wanted a wide-ranging kingdom [human government] so he might establish justice and righteousness in the whole earth. Then multitudes of people would benefit [government sponsored programs] in the ways he described in these verses.

Do recall: Ezekiel speaks against the shepherds [overseers of the people / government], the rulers of Israel. Israel has been destroyed, and its people sent into exile, Ezekiel says, because of a number of governmental sins. The leaders fed themselves when they should have been feeding their sheep [people]. They have not strengthened the weak. And they have neither healed the sick nor bound up the injured.

Government has a responsibility for the public welfare, and for fiscal stewardship. A steward is a trustee for something that belongs to someone else.

Christians will recall Jesus’ many parables in which humanity is charged with stewardship of the owner’s home and vineyards. They will recall St. Paul urging the congregation in the town of Galatia to both carry their own loads, and bear one another’s burdens.

Stewardship, does not only apply to individuals it's universal to include the government.


"Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead? Luke 11:11
 
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Dr H.. said:
RB

Did I say Christ “copied” anything from other religions?

I said that wherever He lived more than likely had an influence on Him. The only difference between Christianity and most other religious beliefs is that “Christ” died for the sins of everyone. Are you saying that Jesus lived several years in Egypt as a child and he was not influenced in one way or another by the Egyptian Culture? Are you saying the same about Moses and the other Hebrews that spent 300 year in Egypt and they were not influenced by the same Culture?

Other than a few other things that are basically the same, especially Judaism, due to the fact the Hebrews / Jews worshipped several false gods, to include Moloch; Nehushtan; Nergal; Nisroch and other Babylonian gods [Read 1 & 2 Kings]

Yes, I know what the word anyone means, however the text “anyone’ is referring to the “anyone” teaching / preaching false doctrine. My question remain has Obama approached your home in the manner I previously mentioned.

Health Care, “I don’t know what bible you are reading” but the scriptures and lessons from Jesus does not support your comment on Health Care. Who is responsible for providing health care, to those that cannot afford health care?

Even Jesus said that “you will always have the poor with you” Matthew 26:11

Question: Did Jesus help those that had health related issues; hungry; mental illness; suffering, yes or no. in fact, figuratively speaking, He was the first to offer “Public Assistance / Welfare”

You continue to use Jesus as an example; here we have Jesus not only as the Savior, but as a Public Servant a representative of the Kingdom and a Doctor “Providing Health Care and Counseling” are you saying that He was wrong? Do you think, He has a problem with Obama attempting to provide Health Care for the citizens of the United States, after all He provided the same “Health Care and Counseling?”

So what is the purpose of the government? Even Jesus recognize the authority of “Human Government” It’s apparent that you are not as well versed in the Bible as you “think” Look and Learn, the bible: The government is responsible for “Just to name a few”:

General welfare of citizens: vindicate the afflicted, care for needy - Ps. 72:4; compassion for poor and needy - Ps. 72:12 - 13; “public health and education, benevolent activities?

Psalms: Solomon wanted a wide-ranging kingdom [human government] so he might establish justice and righteousness in the whole earth. Then multitudes of people would benefit [government sponsored programs] in the ways he described in these verses.

Do recall: Ezekiel speaks against the shepherds [overseers of the people / government], the rulers of Israel. Israel has been destroyed, and its people sent into exile, Ezekiel says, because of a number of governmental sins. The leaders fed themselves when they should have been feeding their sheep [people]. They have not strengthened the weak. And they have neither healed the sick nor bound up the injured.

Government has a responsibility for the public welfare, and for fiscal stewardship. A steward is a trustee for something that belongs to someone else.

Christians will recall Jesus’ many parables in which humanity is charged with stewardship of the owner’s home and vineyards. They will recall St. Paul urging the congregation in the town of Galatia to both carry their own loads, and bear one another’s burdens.

Stewardship, does not only apply to individuals it's universal to include the government.


"Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead? Luke 11:11
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Again, you can't show me one verse in the bible where Jesus stated the government is responsible for providing for human beings.......not one. No where in the bible does God or Christ state the government is responsible for feeding, clothing, educating, or providing health care for human beings......no where.

Christ healed those who were ill, and fed the poor, but I "NEVER" read one verse where Christ gave money to the poor.........not one verse. The church is responsible for taking care of those who are less fortunate.....not the government. The government is trying to take the role of the church without God being mentioned when helping people. It's a clever way for Satan to keep people dependent on government instead of church/God.......very clever.

I just want someone to show me the verses where God or Christ charged government to provide for the people. The only thing government is charged with is protecting its people, and making sure the people civil rights are protected......that's all.
 
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R B
To be the bible scholar “you claim to be†what I presented was Hermeneutics and Scriptural Application. Which is something that you do not understand, unless it to your advantage. Why should Christ give “money†to anyone when, he had the power to heal the illness. Whenever a person, enter Baptist Hospital, they are treated and released. Whenever, have you heard of Baptist or the Federal, Local or State Government sending a check in the mail for someone to receive medical treatment?

So what does Psalms 72:4; 12 – 13 “Mean to youâ€

Christ represents the government of Heaven, which is ruled by the King.

There are many things that the bible / Christ does not “directly spell out†however, through simple application it addresses ever problem that mankind will ever encounter. Now, on a different subject, you quoted the Wise Man Solomon
“Ecclesiastes 1:9-14: What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sunâ€
With that being said, therefore, Public Health Care and other subject has been addressed. You may not agree, but God said “there is nothing new under the sunâ€

Does God, directly address spousal abuse, no! However, thru scriptural application, He does, through simple bible application.
Ephesians 5:25 "Husbands, love your wives" so if I love my wife, why would I mistreat her or cheat on her.

Does God use the words “Homosexual Marriages are wrong?†But, He does say “Shall a man leave his mother and father …..†By application God is saying same sex marriage is wrong. And there are other scriptures that make a similar application.

Does God “directly†address abortion, saying abortion is wrong?

Do you agree with Ve-ahavta le-reiacha kamocha

Since, you say the government is trying to take over the role of the Church. What have you done as a “the church†to assist others.

You are just as guilty as others, because you also depend on the government "do you not"
 
ROYAL BLUE said:
I don't expect you to understand on a spiritual level. All I can do is tell you why I believe the way I do, and pray God open your eyes to see truth.
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This has nothing to do with anything spiritual. The similarities are on paper in "black and white", which is physical.
You can make it into something spiritual if you want, for the primary purpose of dodging the situation. That's completely understandable, but it still won't change the fact that Christianity was copied from Hinduism, Egyptian religions and Judaism.
 
Dr H.. said:
Does God use the words “Homosexual Marriages are wrong?â€￾ But, He does say “Shall a man leave his mother and father …..â€￾ By application God is saying same sex marriage is wrong. And there are other scriptures that make a similar application.

Does God “directlyâ€￾ address abortion, saying abortion is wrong?[/COLOR]
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Yes, He does.......Leviticus 18:22 for Homosexuals

for abortion............This is what the Lord syas---your redeemer, who formed you inthe womb: I am the Lord, who has made all things, who alone streched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself.
Isaiah 44:24

For by Him all things are created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by Him and for Him.
Colossians 1:16

Yet, O Lord, you are our Father. We are the clay, you are the potter; we are the work of your hand.
Isiah 64:8

(2) Who Is The Creator Of The Unborn?

Did not He who made me in the womb make them? Did not the same one form us both within our mothers?
Job 31:15

You hands shaped me and made me. Will You now turn and destroy me? Remember that You molded me like clay. Will You now turn mw to dust again? Did you not pour me out like milk and curdle me like cheese, clothe me with skin and flesh and knit me together with bones and sinews? You gave me life and showed me knidness, and in Your providence watched over my spirit.
Job 10:8-12

For You created my innermost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise You because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Your works are wonderful, I know that full well. My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place. When I was woven together in the depths of the earth, your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be.
Psalm 139:13-16

http://www.ourchurch.com/view/?pageID=47910
 
'Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
Leviticus 18:22

This is what the Lord syas---your redeemer, who formed you inthe womb: I am the Lord, who has made all things, who alone streched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself.
Isaiah 44:24


Where are the words homosexuality and abortion. Please explain how you have come to the conclusion God is talking about homosexuality and abortion. The only thing I see is God saying not to lie [that could mean tell a lie / untruth] and God saying I knew you befoe you were born, ok so what!

Show me the scripture where God said "Thou shall not have an abortion or Thou Shall not engage in homosexuality"

Question: why do you always have to link to a web site to answer a question. And how do you know that these scripture are correct
 
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Dr H.. said:
'Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
Leviticus 18:22

This is what the Lord syas---your redeemer, who formed you inthe womb: I am the Lord, who has made all things, who alone streched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself.
Isaiah 44:24


Where are the words homosexuality and abortion. Please explain how you have come to the conclusion God is talking about homosexuality and abortion. The only thing I see is God saying not to lie [that could mean tell a lie / untruth] and God saying I knew you befoe you were born, ok so what!

Show me the scripture where God said "Thou shall not have an abortion or Thou Shall not engage in homosexuality"

Question: why do you always have to link to a web site to answer a question. And how do you know that these scripture are correct
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Leviticus 18:22 is talking about Homosexuality. God put it in simple terms whereby a child could understand that a man should not lie down with another man, as he would lie down with a woman.......that simple.

As for abortion, God made it clear that it's He that forms the babe in the womb, so who are we to destroy an innocent babe that God formed? Deuteronomy 27:25 Cursed is the one who takes a bribe to slay an innocent person.’ “And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’

What's wrong with me posting a source?
 
JayRob said:
This has nothing to do with anything spiritual. The similarities are on paper in "black and white", which is physical.
You can make it into something spiritual if you want, for the primary purpose of dodging the situation. That's completely understandable, but it still won't change the fact that Christianity was copied from Hinduism, Egyptian religions and Judaism.
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No, what's understandable is I stand on the solid Rock. I'm confident in my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.......are you?
 
What’s wrong with posting sources, well the problem is, and those individuals very well could misinterpret / understand the scriptures.

But, God still did not use those words. I am guessing what you are saying is that by spiritual application, God is making reference to abortion and homosexuality although He did not use those exact words, am I right or wrong.

But, in other scriptures God uses the word “to knowâ€￾ when He is referring to a sexual relationship, why is it He is not using the same word as it relates to Leviticus 18:22.

Was God speaking in Literal and figurative language?
 
Dr H.. said:
What’s wrong with posting sources, well the problem is, and those individuals very well could misinterpret / understand the scriptures.

But, God still did not use those words. I am guessing what you are saying is that by spiritual application, God is making reference to abortion and homosexuality although He did not use those exact words, am I right or wrong.

But, in other scriptures God uses the word “to know” when He is referring to a sexual relationship, why is it He is not using the same word as it relates to Leviticus 18:22.

Was God speaking in Literal and figurative language?
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DH, any man that interprets scripture could be wrong.....including myself. People align themselves with like minds, and I align myself with sources that support the word of God. Having said that, I stand bold on scripture in which I discern to be right and true with the guidance of the holy spirit. I don't know everything, but that in which I do know, I stand boldly on it without shame, fear, or guilt.

Yes, spiritual application is being used in my discerning of the scripture.

Yes, God speaks in both languages. In reference to Leviticus 18:22, and Leviticus 20:13 If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them. IMO, this is in the literal, and aint nothing complicated about God's stance on homosexuality in these verses.

My main source..........Matthew 5:17 "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill." Jesus came to fulfill all the blood ordinances that dealt with blood rituals and sacrifices, which God required under the law. These have been discussed in detail in this book of Leviticus.

Matthew 5:18 "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

Until all of the writings of Moses and all the prophets of the bible have come to pass, not one jot or tittle affecting one word of the Bible will be changed from what is written in God's holy Word. Many today think that they can throw out the book of Revelation, the health laws, or other parts of the bible, and because of their traditional thoughts, they say that it doesn't apply to them; but Jesus is telling us that it does, and if they are in Christ, they will be obedient to His Word.

Matthew 5:19 "Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

These laws dealing with our relationship to our family members are given for our own protection, for genetically all sorts of things happen when they are violated. And when the abomination of homosexuality is committed, there are health diseases and sickness that come to those individuals that take their lives. These laws though are not committing the unforgivable sin, for when a person comes to the understanding of the wicked perversion that he or she had committed, and by faith with a repenting heart, there is forgiveness at the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ. The blood of Jesus Christ is sufficient to take away that sin before the throne of God, when that individual come to the Father in Jesus name. The name of Jesus Christ is the only name under heaven where there is complete forgiveness; but at the same time, when Jesus forgives you, you must learn to forgive yourself. Our Heavenly Father is a loving God, and Jesus has told us that He is there for us, when we call out to Him in Repentance.

http://www.theseason.org/leviticus/leviticus18.htm
 
Yes, spiritual application is being used in my discerning of the scripture.

RB, you did not realize “I set you up†concerning spiritual application. I am the one that introduced biblical exegesis (spiritual application) to the Prayer Board a few years ago. Like I said in a previous comment that you would not agree with me concerning the spiritual application “Public Health provided by the government†Jesus used during His ministry.

Now, when you want to prove a point by useage of the same method, I used (spiritual application). But, since you did not agree with “Public Health†should be provided by the government, you selected not to use spiritual application. Nowhere in the scriptures does God use “Homosexuality or Abortion†but He does by spiritual application or exegesis. Nowhere doe He tell me not to physically abuse my wife, but He does.

I have used the same scriptures during another discussion on the Prayer Board.

Leviticus 18:22 [Education Time] I asked why did God use the word lie instead to know. He used it because sex should not occur between two men and “to know†mean when two people have a sexual relationship in the eyes of God you are married with the possibility of bearing a child.

Matthew 5:17 – 19, has nothing to do with family relationships (read it again) where did you get that from, a web site? Nowhere in those three scriptures does God mention the family. The focus is His view of the Old Testament Law.

Are you saying that “the writings of Moses and all the prophets†has not come to pass? Where are you getting this from, please explain.

Who said that the Book of Revelation can be thrown out?

What Health Laws are you referring to, please explain?

In Matthew 5:17-19, is Jesus talking about Health Laws?
 
Dr H.. said:
Yes, spiritual application is being used in my discerning of the scripture.

RB, you did not realize “I set you up” concerning spiritual application. I am the one that introduced biblical exegesis (spiritual application) to the Prayer Board a few years ago. Like I said in a previous comment that you would not agree with me concerning the spiritual application “Public Health provided by the government” Jesus used during His ministry.

Now, when you want to prove a point by useage of the same method, I used (spiritual application). But, since you did not agree with “Public Health” should be provided by the government, you selected not to use spiritual application. Nowhere in the scriptures does God use “Homosexuality or Abortion” but He does by spiritual application or exegesis. Nowhere doe He tell me not to physically abuse my wife, but He does.

I have used the same scriptures during another discussion on the Prayer Board.

Leviticus 18:22 [Education Time] I asked why did God use the word lie instead to know. He used it because sex should not occur between two men and “to know” mean when two people have a sexual relationship in the eyes of God you are married with the possibility of bearing a child.

Matthew 5:17 – 19, has nothing to do with family relationships (read it again) where did you get that from, a web site? Nowhere in those three scriptures does God mention the family. The focus is His view of the Old Testament Law.

Are you saying that “the writings of Moses and all the prophets” has not come to pass? Where are you getting this from, please explain.

Who said that the Book of Revelation can be thrown out?

What Health Laws are you referring to, please explain?

In Matthew 5:17-19, is Jesus talking about Health Laws?
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DH, you always try to set me up or trip me up on my posts.......always. This is nothing new to me. I will always stay the same regardless because I'm sure of myself, and what I know to be a truth.

Again, no where in the bible did God or Christ charge the government to provide Health Care for the people. The church is responsible for making sure the people are cared for. The government is trying to take the place of the church, and it's evident to many Christians in America. I'll post a video to support my belief. The ending is priceless.

Glenn Beck on Government Taking the Place of God

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cn2vHItAio


Had you clicked on the link, read the information I posted, you would have understood why Matthew 5:17 – 19 was posted at the very end. It doesn't make sense because you didn't click on the link.
 
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I saw that crap a week or so ago, it was crap than and it's crap today. Again I ask you where did God use the words homosexual or abortion, those actual words are not in the bible, show me the words.

You just proved my point, that being the only time you use scriptual exegesis is when it's to your benefit.

So you trust the word of some dude that know as much about the bible as a man in the moon, be for real. I don't need a video of anyone to prove my point "do you" Now, I listen to the dude on YT, and what he said has nothing to do with Matthew 5:17 – 19 or the family.

Ok, lets do it this way, why don't you break the scriptures down and show how Matthew 5:17 – 19 is talking about the family.

Please explain how the church is responsible for "health care; social security; feeding the billions that are homeless, without food; transportation etc, etc, Considering, the billions of people that are on public assistance, show me where God said I have delegated that responsibility to the Church.

Based on your summation, the church would have to be responsible for every function of the responsibilities of the government.

So would the church also be responsible for providing the citizens thir IRS Refund? Where would the church obtain the billions of dollars that spent every year on food stamps.
 
Dr H.. said:
I saw that crap a week or so ago, it was crap than and it's crap today. Again I ask you where did God use the words homosexual or abortion, those actual words are not in the bible, show me the words.

You just proved my point, that being the only time you use scriptual exegesis is when it's to your benefit.

So you trust the word of some dude that know as much about the bible as a man in the moon, be for real. I don't need a video of anyone to prove my point "do you" Now, I listen to the dude on YT, and what he said has nothing to do with Matthew 5:17 – 19 or the family.

Ok, lets do it this way, why don't you break the scriptures down and show how Matthew 5:17 – 19 is talking about the family.

Please explain how the church is responsible for "health care; social security; feeding the billions that are homeless, without food; transportation etc, etc, Considering, the billions of people that are on public assistance, show me where God said I have delegated that responsibility to the Church.

Based on your summation, the church would have to be responsible for every function of the responsibilities of the government.

So would the church also be responsible for providing the citizens thir IRS Refund? Where would the church obtain the billions of dollars that spent every year on food stamps.
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So, someone standing on the word of God is crap!? Since when did your biblical view become the world's?

No, you didn't click on the link because the link I posted was reading material....not a video.

....you mean refunding money that already belongs to the people? The IRS forces people to give way more than 10% of their hard earned money. Since when did God tell the church or government to force people to give their hard earned money? When did God throw people in jail for not tithing? When you gave 10% to the church, it covered everything, and there was no such thing as a refund. God never raised the tithe and it will always be 10%. That in which tithe didn't cover, a love offering covered it with no problem. In other words, God provided and took care of His people with 10% tithing and love offerings.

Again, the church use to fund Israel's wars and care for the people. The priest use to also attend every war the Israel entered because God ordered the priest to be present. Here is an example below.....

Deuteronomy 20:1 "When thou goest out to battle against thine enemies, and seest horses, and chariots, and a people more than thou, be not afraid of them: for the Lord thy God is with thee, Which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt."

Deuteronomy 20:2 "And it shall be, when ye are come nigh unto the battle, that the priest shall approach and speak unto the people,"

When you go to war with a people that far outnumber your people, God is telling us not to be afraid of them.

Deuteronomy 20:3 "And shall say unto them, `Hear, O Israel, ye approach this day unto battle against your enemies: let not your hearts faint, fear not, and do not tremble, neither be ye terrified because of them;"

Deuteronomy 20:4 "For the Lord your God is He that goeth with you, to fight for you against your enemies, to save you.' "

http://www.theseason.org/deut/deut20.htm
 

RB

Please explain how the government is to function without taxes. You are benefiting from the services provided by the government. When you are old enough to retire are you going to collect Social Security, do youenjoy the Police and Fire Protection provided by your local government. Why did you serve in the Military (Navy) did you not accept the benefits. If you retired are you accepting the benefits.

Sure there are people on various social programs, did I not tell you that Jesus said "we will alway have the poor among us"

Where is the scripture that states "The church is responsible for taking care of the poor" A child with a third grade education would not make such a statement. So who is to govern the church, to make sure that the funds are being distributed equally. Let me see, I attend a church that has about 170 members (children included) Ok, lets say collections 240K a year, can we provide health care for half of the church if they were not working, absoutly not, because if one person had a major operation at VANDY it going to cost a minimum of 100K if not more. And that's the position with most churches. Ask the Pope if the Catholic Church can provide Health Care for all the Catholics and the answer will be no.

does those twenty million you cite, deserve to collect unemployment, sure thye do they have worked and paid into the system. Now can the church pay unemployment to tose 20M absoutly not. Do the math, that's 20M a week on the church, plus you have to pay those administering the funds.

God can operate on 1% or less. However, He did say render unto Cesar and obey the earthly government "did He not" Therefore, He supports the government, because they are not violating His spiritual laws.

When did the government throw people in jail for not tithing?

What did God do with the 10%

When you gave 10% to the church, it covered everything, and there was no such thing as a refund. That just dumb, the money given to the church is for church operations, including utilities, salaries, telephone etc, etc. Show me a church that's operating without those items.

Wrong the 10% was given to the Lev. Priest for their function in the Temple (Church). And as the same concept is directed to the NT with the paying of the Preachers.

"Israel's wars and care for the people" this is too funny, RB, Israel was a Nation of peope, they had laws and was govern by the Elders of the tribes. The Elders represented (were) the government which enforced the Laws. Violate a law and you were taken before the Elders of Israel, there are too many OT examples for you not to understand this. What about the man that stole the gold and Israel lost a battle, was he not taken before the government (Elders).

So what you are saying the Preachers "all the men of God" should be leading their governments into battle?

When you go to war with a people that far outnumber your people, God is telling us not to be afraid of them

That's statement has nothing to do with the subject "Health Care" However, are you saying that if you are fighting your enemy has a Maching Gun and you have a Cap Pistol, you are not afraid of him. God, may be on your side (spiritually) but God is also telling you dont be a fool. There perhaps were a 100 or so Christians at 9-11, but they are still dead.

True, God provided for His people,He used the taxes that was collected. God, kingdom is a spiritual government ruled by the "Trinity" God's law regulates / protects the life of a Christian. Just as the human government regulate the lives of its citizens, thru rules and regulations and they do not violate the spiritual laws of God.

So as a Christian, is there anything wrong with me or you helping our neighbor. Is there anything wrong with the government sending him an unemploymnet check. Is there anything wrong with the same individual receiving health assistance from Baptist Hospital.

Are you saying that the $14K medical bill a church member incured is the responsibility of the church. You said your wife is a scientist at VANDY, do you think whenshe need medical assistance the university is asorbing the entire cost, part of that is past on to the government and citizens of the country.

You as a Vet, when you go to the VA "if you go" who do you think pays for your services? If your children attends public or private schools, who asorbs part of the cost.

Are you living in the Old Testament, why not use some NT Scriptures.
 
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ROYAL BLUE said:
I never knew the teachings of Christ to be quick sand.
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I never knew either UNTIL I found out that Christianity was built off the foundations of other religions like Hinduism and Judaism.
If Hinduism was derived FROM Christianity, then Christianity would have the stronger foundation. However, that's not the case. Christianity is derived from Hinduism, so this means that Hinduism has a stronger foundation.

Again, look at the similarities below. Keep in mind that Hinduism was in effect at least 5 centuries (500 years) BEFORE Christianity. There can't be this many similarities without some plagiarism and copying going on.

--Christ and Krishna were called both God and the Son of God.
--Both were sent from heaven to earth in the form of a man.
--Both were called Savior, and the second person of the Trinity
--Both had adopted human fathers who were carpenters.
--A spirit or ghost was their actual father.
--Both were of royal descent.
--Both were visited at birth by wise men and shepherds, guided by a star.
--In both stories angels in both cases issued a warning that the local dictator planned to kill the baby and had issued a decree for his assassination. The parents fled. Mary and Joseph stayed in Muturea; Krishna's parents stayed in Mathura.
--Both Christ and Krishna withdrew to the wilderness as adults, and fasted.
56: Both were identified as "the seed of the woman bruising the serpent's head."
--Jesus was called "the lion of the tribe of Judah." Krishna was called "the lion of the tribe of Saki."
--Both claimed: "I am the Resurrection."
--Both were "without sin."
--Both were god-men: being considered both human and divine.
--Both were considered omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent.
--Both performed many miracles, including the healing of disease. One of the first miracles that both performed was to make a leper whole. Each cured "all manner of diseases."
--Both cast out indwelling demons, and raised the dead.
--Both selected disciples to spread his teachings.
--Both were meek, and merciful. Both were criticized for associating with sinners.
--Both encountered a Gentile woman at a well.
--Both celebrated a last supper. Both forgave his enemies.
 
Dr H.. said:
RB

Please explain how the government is to function without taxes. You are benefiting from the services provided by the government. When you are old enough to retire are you going to collect Social Security, do youenjoy the Police and Fire Protection provided by your local government. Why did you serve in the Military (Navy) did you not accept the benefits. If you retired are you accepting the benefits.

Sure there are people on various social programs, did I not tell you that Jesus said "we will alway have the poor among us"

Where is the scripture that states "The church is responsible for taking care of the poor" A child with a third grade education would not make such a statement. So who is to govern the church, to make sure that the funds are being distributed equally. Let me see, I attend a church that has about 170 members (children included) Ok, lets say collections 240K a year, can we provide health care for half of the church if they were not working, absoutly not, because if one person had a major operation at VANDY it going to cost a minimum of 100K if not more. And that's the position with most churches. Ask the Pope if the Catholic Church can provide Health Care for all the Catholics and the answer will be no.

does those twenty million you cite, deserve to collect unemployment, sure thye do they have worked and paid into the system. Now can the church pay unemployment to tose 20M absoutly not. Do the math, that's 20M a week on the church, plus you have to pay those administering the funds.

God can operate on 1% or less. However, He did say render unto Cesar and obey the earthly government "did He not" Therefore, He supports the government, because they are not violating His spiritual laws.

When did the government throw people in jail for not tithing?

What did God do with the 10%

When you gave 10% to the church, it covered everything, and there was no such thing as a refund. That just dumb, the money given to the church is for church operations, including utilities, salaries, telephone etc, etc. Show me a church that's operating without those items.

Wrong the 10% was given to the Lev. Priest for their function in the Temple (Church). And as the same concept is directed to the NT with the paying of the Preachers.

"Israel's wars and care for the people" this is too funny, RB, Israel was a Nation of peope, they had laws and was govern by the Elders of the tribes. The Elders represented (were) the government which enforced the Laws. Violate a law and you were taken before the Elders of Israel, there are too many OT examples for you not to understand this. What about the man that stole the gold and Israel lost a battle, was he not taken before the government (Elders).

So what you are saying the Preachers "all the men of God" should be leading their governments into battle?

When you go to war with a people that far outnumber your people, God is telling us not to be afraid of them

That's statement has nothing to do with the subject "Health Care" However, are you saying that if you are fighting your enemy has a Maching Gun and you have a Cap Pistol, you are not afraid of him. God, may be on your side (spiritually) but God is also telling you dont be a fool. There perhaps were a 100 or so Christians at 9-11, but they are still dead.

True, God provided for His people,He used the taxes that was collected. God, kingdom is a spiritual government ruled by the "Trinity" God's law regulates / protects the life of a Christian. Just as the human government regulate the lives of its citizens, thru rules and regulations and they do not violate the spiritual laws of God.

So as a Christian, is there anything wrong with me or you helping our neighbor. Is there anything wrong with the government sending him an unemploymnet check. Is there anything wrong with the same individual receiving health assistance from Baptist Hospital.

Are you saying that the $14K medical bill a church member incured is the responsibility of the church. You said your wife is a scientist at VANDY, do you think whenshe need medical assistance the university is asorbing the entire cost, part of that is past on to the government and citizens of the country.

You as a Vet, when you go to the VA "if you go" who do you think pays for your services? If your children attends public or private schools, who asorbs part of the cost.

Are you living in the Old Testament, why not use some NT Scriptures.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's right for the government to ration out my social security. They should give me every dime I paid in a lump sum payment once I qualify to receive the benefit.......with interest.

God governs the church. A child knows that.......

DH, I have health insurance and have only been to the doctor once in the past 2 years. All of the money I was paying to be insured could have stayed in my pocket. My kids are healthy kids, and rarely go to the doctor. My son with the heart condition only goes to the doctor once every 6 months. God has blessed us with great health......not the government. If the government was not "FORCING/STEALING" money from the taxpayers, then the church would have plenty to take care of those who can't take care of themselves.

DH, what you fail to realize is that taxation is good "IF" the majority of people "VOTE" for a tax increase. The government shouldn't be raising taxes on the people without taking a vote to see if the people want to be taxed. We successfully demonstrated this in Jackson,MS when the "PEOPLE VOTED" to have their taxes raised to support a $150 million dollar bond for education building projects. The FEDS have not allowed the people to "VOTE" on the issue, however they're trying to "FORCE/STEAL" from the people. Lincoln said it best if you care to read. The Gettysburg Address.......It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth. http://showcase.netins.net/web/creative/lincoln/speeches/gettysburg.htm

Lastly, this is not about the government functioning. This is about the people having their freedoms taken away by the government. Those clowns in office work for the people......not the government.
 
DH, there is nothing wrong with you helping your neighbor. Now, if you were to demand I help your neighbor, then we have a serious problem because I don't have to help those I choose not help. Helping is charitable, but when the government makes you do something, then that's not charitable at all. You do it because they made you do it, and it wasn't from the heart. You just like others refuse to exercise your rights in this country. You would rather the government steal from you without saying a word. I choose not to be a fool, and let these clowns take from me without asking. I can assure you one thing, the American people have had enough, and the people will do to this government what they did to king George.......kick his %&$!

I posted a video below in case you forgot why we celebrate the 4th of July.

mel gibson the patriot tomahawk fight scenes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbtA0TIyoI8
 
RB, your argument on voteing is worthless - the government does not need the approval of the citizen to raise taxes.

No you do not have to help, but are you your brothers keeper. If that's your attitude then you are in violation of your belief "Christanity" What about the scripture "You shall love your neighbor as yourself" who is your neighbor. Matthew 22:39.

What have the government made you do, that you do not agree with? Jesus paid Taxes, did He vote on taxes or did he just "obey the law of the land" Render unto Cesar? The government is not making you do something you don't want to do, you don't have to pay your taxes and if you fail to do so you are violating the law of the land (which God supports) and you ae going to jail, does the government have a righ to put you in jail, yes, and that decision is support by God.

All of the money I was paying to be insured could have stayed in my pocket. So why don't you drop your health insurance and pay all of the expenses out of your pocket. Suppose you don't have health insurance and one of your son's need major operation, can you have the money in pocket to pay for a 60K operation. There is not a law stating that you have to have Insurance.

If there were no taxes, how would the Federal Government provide the services that we all enjoy?

You need help, the 4th of July, has nothing to do with the Bible.

Do you go to church, if so are they paying for your Health Care?

church would have plenty to take care of those who can't take care of themselves.

Are you serious, go and do some research, what would be the source of revenue for the church, when very few members are giving.

Terry Mattingly. Syndicated column from Scripps Howard News Service, January 24, 2001.

Over 50 percent of the members of any given Christian congregation donate little or nothing toward their church’s upkeep and ministries; and oftentimes the ones who do give are donating for all the wrong reasons. These are some of the sad findings in John and Sylvia Ronsvalle’s book Behind the Stained Glass Windows: Money Dynamics in the Church, according to syndicated columnist Terry Mattingly. There are many people in the pews on Sunday morning who have no desire to see their churches grow; if they do give money, it is often for such reasons as keeping the church facilities beautiful and suitable for such activities as weddings and funerals. Others consider their offerings as payment for inspiring sermons, youth programs and pastoral counseling in times of crisis. There are also parishioners who have a desire to please God in the area of their finances but need more encouragement, exhortation and guidance from their church leaders in how to give. The Ronsvalles conclude that we all need to have a greater vision for what we are investing in when we give to the church: “the hearts and lives of others.â€￾

The giving patterns of Americans are described in new research released by The Barna Group, based on an annual tracking survey conducted by the firm regarding religious behaviors and beliefs. The results of the new research can be compared with outcomes from prior years to follow the trend line.


Tithing in 2007

Whether they believe in the principle of tithing or not, few Americans give away that much money. In 2007, the research revealed that just 5% of adults tithed.

Among the most generous segments were evangelicals (24% of whom tithed); conservatives (12%); people who had prayed, read the Bible and attended a church service during the past week (12%); charismatic or Pentecostal Christians (11%); and registered Republicans (10%).

Since 2000

The percentage of adults who tithe has stayed constant since the turn of the decade, falling in the 5% to 7% range. The Barna tracking reported that the proportion of adults who tithed was 7% in 2006 and 2005; 5% in 2004 and 2003; 6% in 2002; and 5% in 2001.

There are ministers on the board, just ask them it their church can provide Health Care for it's members.


To be honest God does not directly designate the government or church to provide Health Care, but He does say if a man does not work, he shall not eat.

So what if they cant work, who is responsible for providing assistance - it could be the church, government or an individual.
 
Dr H.. said:
RB, your argument on voteing is worthless - the government does not need the approval of the citizen to raise taxes.

No you do not have to help, but are you your brothers keeper. If that's your attitude then you are in violation of your belief "Christanity" What about the scripture "You shall love your neighbor as yourself" who is your neighbor. Matthew 22:39.

What have the government made you do, that you do not agree with? Jesus paid Taxes, did He vote on taxes or did he just "obey the law of the land" Render unto Cesar? The government is not making you do something you don't want to do, you don't have to pay your taxes and if you fail to do so you are violating the law of the land (which God supports) and you ae going to jail, does the government have a righ to put you in jail, yes, and that decision is support by God.

All of the money I was paying to be insured could have stayed in my pocket. So why don't you drop your health insurance and pay all of the expenses out of your pocket. Suppose you don't have health insurance and one of your son's need major operation, can you have the money in pocket to pay for a 60K operation. There is not a law stating that you have to have Insurance.

If there were no taxes, how would the Federal Government provide the services that we all enjoy?

You need help, the 4th of July, has nothing to do with the Bible.

Do you go to church, if so are they paying for your Health Care?

church would have plenty to take care of those who can't take care of themselves.

Are you serious, go and do some research, what would be the source of revenue for the church, when very few members are giving.

Terry Mattingly. Syndicated column from Scripps Howard News Service, January 24, 2001.

Over 50 percent of the members of any given Christian congregation donate little or nothing toward their church’s upkeep and ministries; and oftentimes the ones who do give are donating for all the wrong reasons. These are some of the sad findings in John and Sylvia Ronsvalle’s book Behind the Stained Glass Windows: Money Dynamics in the Church, according to syndicated columnist Terry Mattingly. There are many people in the pews on Sunday morning who have no desire to see their churches grow; if they do give money, it is often for such reasons as keeping the church facilities beautiful and suitable for such activities as weddings and funerals. Others consider their offerings as payment for inspiring sermons, youth programs and pastoral counseling in times of crisis. There are also parishioners who have a desire to please God in the area of their finances but need more encouragement, exhortation and guidance from their church leaders in how to give. The Ronsvalles conclude that we all need to have a greater vision for what we are investing in when we give to the church: “the hearts and lives of others.â€￾

The giving patterns of Americans are described in new research released by The Barna Group, based on an annual tracking survey conducted by the firm regarding religious behaviors and beliefs. The results of the new research can be compared with outcomes from prior years to follow the trend line.


Tithing in 2007

Whether they believe in the principle of tithing or not, few Americans give away that much money. In 2007, the research revealed that just 5% of adults tithed.

Among the most generous segments were evangelicals (24% of whom tithed); conservatives (12%); people who had prayed, read the Bible and attended a church service during the past week (12%); charismatic or Pentecostal Christians (11%); and registered Republicans (10%).

Since 2000

The percentage of adults who tithe has stayed constant since the turn of the decade, falling in the 5% to 7% range. The Barna tracking reported that the proportion of adults who tithed was 7% in 2006 and 2005; 5% in 2004 and 2003; 6% in 2002; and 5% in 2001.

There are ministers on the board, just ask them it their church can provide Health Care for it's members.


To be honest God does not directly designate the government or church to provide Health Care, but He does say if a man does not work, he shall not eat.

So what if they cant work, who is responsible for providing assistance - it could be the church, government or an individual.
Click to expand...

Once again you forget this government is a government for the people.....not the government. The politicians are required to obey the law of the land because they too are citizens, and they have purposely disregarded the US Constitution. The constitution clearly states that America is forbidden to borrow from foreign countries, but these clowns have put this country in debt by borrowing from foreign countries. What else have these clowns done? The constitution states that only congress is authorized to print/tax money, however these clowns allow the IRS to control our currency with interest added to every dollar printed that will be impossible to pay off. What's my point? Yes, we are to obey the laws of the land, but these clowns who call themselves politicians are not obeying the laws of the land themselves.........hypocrites.

Secondly, we have a voting system in this country, and if we don't like what our politicians are doing, then we have a right to vote these clowns out of office. I think it's foolish for you to say "the government does not need the approval of the citizen to raise taxes." Have you ever heard of taxation without representation, and what does it mean to you? We also have a right to freely speak without having someone throw us in jail for practicing our right. Dr. King used his freedom of speech to rip the government into shreds, and was successful in doing so.

If you need help understanding your rights as an American citizen, I will be more than happy to explain them in laymen's terms.

Like I said, the people are rebelling and praise God for it.
 
Have you ever heard of taxation without representation, and what does it mean to you?

Is that bible?

Once again you forget this government is a government for the people.....not the government.

True, that's why we have taxes to support, protect "the people" If you are so anti government, why did you serve in the military and travel on the government supported roads, sewer system, why do you expect the government "police" to protect you.

I think it's foolish for you to say "the government does not need the approval of the citizen to raise taxes." Have you ever heard of taxation without representation, and what does it mean to you?
Click to expand...

Does the government need you approval to raises taxes on tobacc, road taxes, buid national security systems or bridge up the Cumberland River to provide electricity to your home. Does the city you live in need to notify you or vote on a tax bill "they do sometimes, but thty don't" Does the state of federal govermnt vote on or is required to notify each citizen that thaty are going to raise gas taxes. Whe was the last time EXXON, Mobile or your local service station notified you or voted on raising the price of gas (but you continue to buy their products) Why?

Yes, we are to obey the laws of the land

Then just shut up and obey the law of the land. Considering, everything you said,not one issue violates bible doctrine. Becaues God supports taxes and laws as long as they do not violate His laws. Would you not agree with this?
 
Dr H.. said:
Have you ever heard of taxation without representation, and what does it mean to you?

Is that bible?

Once again you forget this government is a government for the people.....not the government.

True, that's why we have taxes to support, protect "the people" If you are so anti government, why did you serve in the military and travel on the government supported roads, sewer system, why do you expect the government "police" to protect you.



Does the government need you approval to raises taxes on tobacc, road taxes, buid national security systems or bridge up the Cumberland River to provide electricity to your home. Does the city you live in need to notify you or vote on a tax bill "they do sometimes, but thty don't" Does the state of federal govermnt vote on or is required to notify each citizen that thaty are going to raise gas taxes. Whe was the last time EXXON, Mobile or your local service station notified you or voted on raising the price of gas (but you continue to buy their products) Why?

Yes, we are to obey the laws of the land

Then just shut up and obey the law of the land. Considering, everything you said,not one issue violates bible doctrine. Becaues God supports taxes and laws as long as they do not violate His laws. Would you not agree with this?
Click to expand...

DH, you're not comprehending what I'm saying. I'm not anti-government. I'm against the actions of the government when it takes advantage of the people. For example, the government use to support slavery............THAT'S WRONG. The government use to support the opinion that blacks were 3/4 of a human being.........THAT'S WRONG. The government use to support segregation between blacks and whites.........THAT'S WRONG. The government is taxing the American people more than they should be required to pay..........THAT'S WRONG. The government is trying to force Americans to pay for Health insurance, and send them to jail if they refuse.........THAT'S WRONG. The government placed this country in debt and expect Americans to foot the bill...........THAT'S WRONG. The State of Mississippi mistreated HBCUs and uplifted PWCs........THAT'S WRONG. Why is it so hard for you to discern right from wrong? Do you not know when the government has abused its power?

I served in the military because it was my Christian duty to give something back to the country that protected me when I was a young Lad. Most Americans don't realize that freedom isn't free in this country. We have the freedoms we have today because Americans shed blood for us to be free.

.....and yes, it's biblical because it's the law of the land.
 
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