Did Baton Rouge Cops Kill an Unarmed Man?


Bruh, I'm good. Like I said, I'm not here to change folks mind. I hope to offer a perspective based on experience. I have feelings about ALL of these situations that I chose/choose not to share here because some of you do not possess the capability to distinguish analyzing a situation from defending it. Me analyzing what I have seen has absolutely nothing to do with my personal opinions of any of this. I just try to give you a perspective that most don't have so that YOUR next interaction, or your children's next interaction with an officer doesn't become the next national story. Take it or leave it. I don't have to prove my "nikka" to him, or anyone else. Black is what I am, have been for 36 years, long before I EVER put on a badge, and will be when I take my last breath.

My brotha, You saying you are giving a perspective view based on experience but your perspective view is not making sense, when someone is producing facts, yes you in the law enforcement, but you can be wrong too, and in this situation your perspective view on what you preceded to be accurate is not accurate at all and only (to me) a person with no humanity or soul (which is a white person or black is a c**n) would sit up here and try to side with your point of view. That's all I"m saying.

We are looking at the same video(s) as you and you've broken it down to us as much as you could and I and others have came back with rebuttal information to debunk your claim, just because you are an officer and you give your view, again doesn't mean you are right especially when the evidence/situation is in clear site. It's ok to admit on here and especially among your cop buddies that those guys were out of order and were wrong for murdering that man, it's ok to say that, but you not saying it and trying to pick and pull things that have been debunked already will keep ppl like me and most of the black communities in anger towards anyone that wears the uniform.

That video I posted, that lady was able to watch the clip and see that the man was murdered in cold blood, she was honest about the situation, thus her gaining respect from me and others that praised her for her to come out..
All the rest of you other officers that sit back and say nothing, that don't look good playboy, wrong is wrong, right is right,
That's all I'm saying dude.

What you said in this thread won't help noone child in the next altercation bruh...Let me just point that out..
 
Thought you digressed long ago....I'm done entertaining you, man. You have your opinions, and I have mine. They don't agree.

Kudos to the lady who gave her opinion. Guess she's right because she agrees with you. I guess the only way to be an "acceptable negro" is to make a video agreeing with the masses...*shrug*
 

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Dayam BH! You just guilted every single OL on my starting offense my jr and sr HS yr that protected me during my HS playing days because all of them are officers, along w/ a few of their backups. All anglos, by the way. And they have to again be on some type of prayer-list because they all have not shot not ONE black male in our community-county over the last 30 years. WTF?! I'm tempted to call one of them now and tell them to wait @ that border w/ the big city (Houston) and pop a black dude from that area so that they can make your dream come true. lol

That's funny though. Back in the gap, I'm being protected by these guys who told me "no f'ing body will EVER touch you" while blocking for me the qb, I'm showering in a group shower w/ these guys, broke bread w/ them @ their parent's house and my mother's house, slept over @ their house and they slept on my mom's floor lol, they've (most) gone by through the decades not years and STILL go by my mother's house unannounced to visit her and check on her [out of respect I guess], and will phone me [vice-versa] out of the blue to say "what's going on RJ?" Maybe me and parts of my family are excused and are considered the exceptions or "uncle toms" huh? lol :D Maybe some of them will turn coattail on me during that Prairie View/Texas A&M football game during their tailgate. "LETS PLAY BONG THE NI$$ER!!!!!" lol :D So you're saying that I shouldn't turn my back on them when I have over 40+ years of history w/ these same guys? Comical. I know them. I don't know you and some of the rest of you posting here. Pure comedy. :D

Dude, Let me ask you this,
Just because they haven't shot any black person in so and so years, you think they treated all the black ppl they've stopped equal as they treated the whites they stopped?
Do you think they never done anything wrong to any black person that they've stopped or encountered?
You don't have to call them and tell them to shoot a black person, how about call them and act like you're interested, matter of fact, go to the bar and have some drinks with them, and act like you're interested in hearing about their days as an officer and ask them when they're on their 4th or 5th beer, what's the worse thing they've done towards a nikka, act like you wanna know too, and see what they say...again ask them around the 5th or 6th drink when they have their arm around you yelling out types of crazy slurs out, ask them then and see what they say and get back with me :)



Oh they are so cool, going by your mom house and checking up on her, cool, cute story, but let me ask you this, ask them would they do the same for a black person that they don't know or grew with, not so much as to check on that person's house, but ask them would they let a black man who they count with a small bag of weed on them, would they turn their head and keep on about his business and let him off with a warning maybe or would they give him a ticket....ask them how many passes would they give to black folks when breaking the law in due to something minor?

Even go as far as asking them, would they put their kids in an all black school or send them to an HBCU school
 
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I'm not telling a "story" BH. I'm telling what's called the TRUTH, that so so so many people seem to have a problem w/. BDubose, JCartwright, MWilliams, SDavis, MPhillips, GSharp, and KWinford ALL have gone by and continue to go by my mother's house since 1983 :D . Conversely, I've gone by their parents homes to chit-chat through the decades as well. Maybe they've been plotting up since HS graduation to "kill da' ni$$ras" huh? lol That sure is a long time to pretend and plot, don't you think? :D :D :D :D :D :D :D lol LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL And, I'm not asking them about how their day went because that's none of my business. Their job is to "protect and serve" so I'm assuming they are protecting and serving around here. This is a majority anglo area followed immediately by spanish and then 9.6% black, if that county wide. So it stands to reason MOST of the folks they are arresting are... .*drumroll* whites. Again, I know THEM 40+ years and counting. It's YOU people I do not know. :D And no thanks to the silly drinking beer bull. I'm not an alcoholic and neither are they. :D
 
I'm not telling a "story" BH. I'm telling what's called the TRUTH, that so so so many people seem to have a problem w/. BDubose, JCartwright, MWilliams, SDavis, MPhillips, GSharp, and KWinford ALL have gone by and continue to go by my mother's house since 1983 :D . Conversely, I've gone by their parents homes to chit-chat through the decades as well. Maybe they've been plotting up since HS graduation to "kill da' ni$$ras" huh? lol That sure is a long time to pretend and plot, don't you think? :D :D :D :D :D :D :D lol LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL And, I'm not asking them about how their day went because that's none of my business. Their job is to "protect and serve" so I'm assuming they are protecting and serving around here. This is a majority anglo area followed immediately by spanish and then 9.6% black, if that county wide. So it stands to reason MOST of the folks they are arresting are... .*drumroll* whites. Again, I know THEM 40+ years and counting. It's YOU people I do not know. :D And no thanks to the silly drinking beer bull. I'm not an alcoholic and neither are they. :D

Ok breh, I get it, you have white friends that care about you good for you...cool story..

I digress
 
Ok breh, I get it, you have white friends that care about you good for you...cool story..

I digress

I have black friends too, who are in law enforcement. Imagine that! *gasp!* *gasp!* Story? What f'ing story? It's called TRUTH. ACCEPTANCE of the TRUTH is the key that will help some naive black people be free for once in their miserable lives. smh Has to suck. smh
 
Dude what is you talkin about...

Where do they make these niggas at like you

Seriously Lol

#1, I'm not a "n***a." :D And #2, I asked you to justify your boy robbing @ gunpoint AND when a dispatcher receives a phonecall from the robbed person saying "he had a gun and took my car and money," how do you think responding law enforcement personnel will roll up? W/ a gift card, roses, and a bottle of champagne? :D:D:D:D:D:D:D Lastly, where do they make black boys who harbor a converse opinion? In the "black hood?" lol

Duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh the ignorance. lol
 
I ‘m sorry folks, I see this is not going to be a popular opinion but I’m use to that. Alton Sterling should have conformed to the officers and the officers will not be charged with anything. I would like to offer my deepest sympathy to the family and if somebody has a link to make a donation I will be happy to do so. But if Mr. Sterling would have complied with the officers commands, he might have still been alive today.

My brother-in-law is a state policeman who does extra duty in New Orleans and he is always telling me about law enforcement officers getting killed that don’t make the news. My sister is always worrying about him but she knows what she signed up for. If my brother-in-law gets kills in the line of duty and probably at the hands of another black person, you think Al Sharpton will be there to comfort my sister? Will his black life matter?

These guys have to make life and death decision within seconds. Don’t give them a reason to choose shooting you because of some neagro pride….conform and don’t fight the cops in the streets. Your chances are better in court than in the streets….it’s just takes time and effort. I’ve been arrested three times in the deep prejudice south and twice put in handcuffs but NEVER been shot, beaten up, or even had a harsh word said to me. But each time I conformed to what was told for me to do and was never charge with anything. If the cops say stop get on the ground, do that, shut the hell up, and DON’T MOVE. That’s not hard to do, especially when you see a cop’s hand on his gun. You are not going to win or maybe even live if you don’t comply or give the impression of resisting. Is it fair, maybe not, but what part of being black in America is fair? You may call me a c**n, slave (that’s from my own son), or whatever you call a person that does not by in to the black victim narrative. But I’m always on the side of self-preservation. If I can stay alive by following a few instruction for 3 or 4 minutes, that’s the option I’m taking.
 
@Bighead
@s phi s
I ‘m sorry folks, I see this is not going to be a popular opinion but I’m use to that. Alton Sterling should have conformed to the officers and the officers will not be charged with anything. I would like to offer my deepest sympathy to the family and if somebody has a link to make a donation I will be happy to do so. But if Mr. Sterling would have complied with the officers commands, he might have still been alive today.

My brother-in-law is a state policeman who does extra duty in New Orleans and he is always telling me about law enforcement officers getting killed that don’t make the news. My sister is always worrying about him but she knows what she signed up for. If my brother-in-law gets kills in the line of duty and probably at the hands of another black person, you think Al Sharpton will be there to comfort my sister? Will his black life matter?

These guys have to make life and death decision within seconds. Don’t give them a reason to choose shooting you because of some neagro pride….conform and don’t fight the cops in the streets. Your chances are better in court than in the streets….it’s just takes time and effort. I’ve been arrested three times in the deep prejudice south and twice put in handcuffs but NEVER been shot, beaten up, or even had a harsh word said to me. But each time I conformed to what was told for me to do and was never charge with anything. If the cops say stop get on the ground, do that, shut the hell up, and DON’T MOVE. That’s not hard to do, especially when you see a cop’s hand on his gun. You are not going to win or maybe even live if you don’t comply or give the impression of resisting. Is it fair, maybe not, but what part of being black in America is fair? You may call me a c**n, slave (that’s from my own son), or whatever you call a person that does not by in to the black victim narrative. But I’m always on the side of self-preservation. If I can stay alive by following a few instruction for 3 or 4 minutes, that’s the option I’m taking.

That's understandable...yet to counter that I think many blacks also wonder why in situations like this black men are killed. Yet, in situations such as the church killer and the movie theater killer they survive.

I would really like for someone to do a documentary on police pull overs in black neighborhoods versus white neighborhoods.
 
I think this country as a whole needs to be prescribed Ritalin, everyone seems so hyper! Democrats vs. Republicans, Blacks vs. Whites, Cops vs. Blacks, Blacks vs. Blacks, just too much hate in this country!
 
@Bighead
@s phi s


That's understandable...yet to counter that I think many blacks also wonder why in situations like this black men are killed. Yet, in situations such as the church killer and the movie theater killer they survive.

I would really like for someone to do a documentary on police pull overs in black neighborhoods versus white neighborhoods.

Man why you at me to this post,

All I can do is smh at that....we have some lost black folks IMO
I ‘m sorry folks, I see this is not going to be a popular opinion but I’m use to that. Alton Sterling should have conformed to the officers and the officers will not be charged with anything. I would like to offer my deepest sympathy to the family and if somebody has a link to make a donation I will be happy to do so. But if Mr. Sterling would have complied with the officers commands, he might have still been alive today.

My brother-in-law is a state policeman who does extra duty in New Orleans and he is always telling me about law enforcement officers getting killed that don’t make the news. My sister is always worrying about him but she knows what she signed up for. If my brother-in-law gets kills in the line of duty and probably at the hands of another black person, you think Al Sharpton will be there to comfort my sister? Will his black life matter?

These guys have to make life and death decision within seconds. Don’t give them a reason to choose shooting you because of some neagro pride….conform and don’t fight the cops in the streets. Your chances are better in court than in the streets….it’s just takes time and effort. I’ve been arrested three times in the deep prejudice south and twice put in handcuffs but NEVER been shot, beaten up, or even had a harsh word said to me. But each time I conformed to what was told for me to do and was never charge with anything. If the cops say stop get on the ground, do that, shut the hell up, and DON’T MOVE. That’s not hard to do, especially when you see a cop’s hand on his gun. You are not going to win or maybe even live if you don’t comply or give the impression of resisting. Is it fair, maybe not, but what part of being black in America is fair? You may call me a c**n, slave (that’s from my own son), or whatever you call a person that does not by in to the black victim narrative. But I’m always on the side of self-preservation. If I can stay alive by following a few instruction for 3 or 4 minutes, that’s the option I’m taking.

Your opinion but I would like to ask

1. If the guy is asking "what he did wrong" is that resisting, that is a natural reaction that anyone will say and do, ask what did they do, hell even kids asked their parents when approached out of nowhere, what did they do out of fear, noone talks about the black dude or victim's fear, I've yet to hear anyone especially the cop on here, say anything towards the fear of the ppl on the other end, but I digress.

2. These law enforcement officers are getting killed by WHO for the most part, Black ppl???
So Black ppl are now killing cops? I'm speaking about black folks only and these cops that are being killed These cops you stated that are dying and the news ppl are not reporting because of what again, why they are not being reported?, I wanna know what news outlet that you and I know, would not only report a black man or woman killing a cop, but not make that a BREAKING NEWS especially in these times.

3. These guys have to make life and death decision within seconds in regards to OTHER RACES, BLACK PPL ARE NOT KILLING COPS
You stated you've been arrested 3 times, outta those 3 times, if you had a gun, Why didn't you shoot the cop in the head and walk off?

Dude all this obey what the cop says, Dude, guess what, They will still shoot your ass and mines...Please take a look at the videos of white cops shooting black ppl, one recent as today you can see, there's one when a cop tells a black man to get his license and he's going to get and the white cop shoots him....so all this follow the leader type speech you inject isn't flying...YOU STILL WILL GET KILLED..

So I guess Sandra Bland acted wild
I guess Tamar acted wild and didn't listen
So just because in your words, you don't listen and ask the cop "what I do" you should get shot, or "it should have never happen, he or she should have conformed"
 
Now, with this second angle, can we put to rest the incorrect assumption and assertion that he had a gun pointed to his head?

I thought I did when I posted this....

No, officer, I can't point to any factual source that says he was shot in the head, so I'm wrong. I'm sure your sources, from whoever they're from, are indeed more factual. Perhaps I should have just said Alton Sterling was shot and killed in his chest and back while in a position of submission by the Baton Rouge police.

......and also again when I posted this:

......

But since I was wrong, I did pose a few questions to you in another post, and I'm very interested in what your answers are.

but if it'll make you feel any better, I will again post that I was wrong; I was wrong about Mr. Sterling being shot in the head at point blank range. I have absolutely no problem whatsoever in admitting that I was wrong about how Mr. Alton Sterling was killed. I just thank God that another video footage was available to show just exactly how Mr. Sterling was killed, and I pray that the video from the store owner will not be tampered with by the BRPD or any other law enforcement agency or by anyone.

Again, I was wrong about how Mr. Sterling was killed, but I was correct when I posted that he was murdered by the Baton Rouge police.
 

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I thought I did when I posted this....



......and also again when I posted this:



but if it'll make you feel any better, I will again post that I was wrong; I was wrong about Mr. Sterling being shot in the head at point blank range. I have absolutely no problem whatsoever in admitting that I was wrong about how Mr. Alton Sterling was killed. I just thank God that another video footage was available to show just exactly how Mr. Sterling was killed, and I pray that the video from the store owner will not be tampered with by the BRPD.

Again, I was wrong about how Mr. Sterling was killed, but I was correct when I posted that he was murdered by the Baton Rouge police.

I should have been more clear with my post, as you are not the only person I have had that conversation with, and this is not the only medium where it has taken place. I was speaking generally, and not specifically in response to your post (even though that's how it appears here, and in the message board world, perception is reality), as many people who I have been speaking to were saying this. My apologies to you...:)
 
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@Bighead
@s phi s


That's understandable...yet to counter that I think many blacks also wonder why in situations like this black men are killed. Yet, in situations such as the church killer and the movie theater killer they survive.

I would really like for someone to do a documentary on police pull overs in black neighborhoods versus white neighborhoods.

They are killed because in part racism but mostly poverty but that’s another thread. I have no doubt that black males are killed disproportionally more than whites during a routine traffic stop. I wish things were different but they are not, never has been, and it keeps being shown to us that it never will be different. Also, I can’t control the action of a cop or the agency that hire them. I can only control my own actions. I can’t stand being a conformist when the adverse behavior is what I feel is correct. But I am not willing to die to be correct. Like I was trying to tell my son who lives in Baton Rouge, I rather visit my c**n conforming son in his apartment than visiting my brave nonconforming son in the cemetery. Also, I don’t want to see his name in your list below.
 
Man why you at me to this post,

All I can do is smh at that....we have some lost black folks IMO


Your opinion but I would like to ask

1. If the guy is asking "what he did wrong" is that resisting, that is a natural reaction that anyone will say and do, ask what did they do, hell even kids asked their parents when approached out of nowhere, what did they do out of fear, noone talks about the black dude or victim's fear, I've yet to hear anyone especially the cop on here, say anything towards the fear of the ppl on the other end, but I digress.

2. These law enforcement officers are getting killed by WHO for the most part, Black ppl???
So Black ppl are now killing cops? I'm speaking about black folks only and these cops that are being killed These cops you stated that are dying and the news ppl are not reporting because of what again, why they are not being reported?, I wanna know what news outlet that you and I know, would not only report a black man or woman killing a cop, but not make that a BREAKING NEWS especially in these times.

3. These guys have to make life and death decision within seconds in regards to OTHER RACES, BLACK PPL ARE NOT KILLING COPS
You stated you've been arrested 3 times, outta those 3 times, if you had a gun, Why didn't you shoot the cop in the head and walk off?

Dude all this obey what the cop says, Dude, guess what, They will still shoot your ass and mines...Please take a look at the videos of white cops shooting black ppl, one recent as today you can see, there's one when a cop tells a black man to get his license and he's going to get and the white cop shoots him....so all this follow the leader type speech you inject isn't flying...YOU STILL WILL GET KILLED..

So I guess Sandra Bland acted wild
I guess Tamar acted wild and didn't listen
So just because in your words, you don't listen and ask the cop "what I do" you should get shot, or "it should have never happen, he or she should have conformed"


There was a white cop here in Shreveport that was shot and killed by a black guy. They were looking for him for 2 weeks and found him on a back porch 20 yards from the scene drinking a beer. You would think he could have at least gone to Dallas or something. These are a lot of black cops who are being shot by black people. But we don’t get out and march about that, we don’t even care….only when white cops shoot black people we tweet the hell out of that.

Please don’t think I am one of those who thinks racism don’t exist within law enforcement. That’s not a true statement. Yes it is possible to get shot anyway, but resisting your chance of survival is not as great as conforming or not resisting. I’m just telling you the same thing I’m telling my hot headed 24 year old adult son.
 
http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2016/07/alton_sterling_shooting_police.html

The shortcomings of any video, however, are that a camera has to be turned on, it can only be shot from a specific angle and it can be turned off. Investigators will have to figure out what happened before, after and out of view before drawing any conclusions or recommendations. That will mean finding more videos, interviewing witnesses and sorting perceptions from reality.

Generally, an officer is never supposed to be the one who escalates violence. When someone is screaming at an officer, that officer isn't cleared to hit him, for instance. But should that person hit the officer, then the officer is trained to respond in kind.

If police suspect a person has a gun, their job is to determine whether that's true and make sure there is no threat to themselves or the public.

"If you have a less than lethal option — Taser, pepper spray — you may use that to confirm that that person is not armed and defuse the situation," Serpas said. "If that person doesn't stop ... that's when hand movements are very critical."

"I believe most police officers follow their departments' policies, but it's, unfortunately, becoming very common for some officers to depart from policy and procedures in these situations, and we've seen over and over again, particularly involving African-American subjects, that police behaved improperly," said Michael Avery, a Boston civil rights lawyer and expert on use-of-force cases.

"If they don't get periodic retraining it's very difficult to get officers to respond in an ideal way. But we don't spend resources on that," Avery said. "In a lot of these excessive force situations, when you look at the training there's often nothing wrong with it ... the problem is not with the training. It's with getting officers to respond in accordance to their training."
___________________________________

Sounds like something I heard somewhere before...
 
There was a white cop here in Shreveport that was shot and killed by a black guy. They were looking for him for 2 weeks and found him on a back porch 20 yards from the scene drinking a beer. You would think he could have at least gone to Dallas or something. These are a lot of black cops who are being shot by black people. But we don’t get out and march about that, we don’t even care….only when white cops shoot black people we tweet the hell out of that.

Please don’t think I am one of those who thinks racism don’t exist within law enforcement. That’s not a true statement. Yes it is possible to get shot anyway, but resisting your chance of survival is not as great as conforming or not resisting. I’m just telling you the same thing I’m telling my hot headed 24 year old adult son.

White cop got a pistol unloaded in his head and back here while pumping gas. Investigation into that case has led to a complete shat-storm in that department. An officer in my department was shot at when he pulled over a black driver who, as it was later revealed, had just robbed a restaurant at gunpoint, even though the officer had no clue. I'm not saying cops are always right, or that there are no racist cops out there. We both know that to not be true.
 
There was a white cop here in Shreveport that was shot and killed by a black guy. They were looking for him for 2 weeks and found him on a back porch 20 yards from the scene drinking a beer. You would think he could have at least gone to Dallas or something. These are a lot of black cops who are being shot by black people. But we don’t get out and march about that, we don’t even care….only when white cops shoot black people we tweet the hell out of that.

Please don’t think I am one of those who thinks racism don’t exist within law enforcement. That’s not a true statement. Yes it is possible to get shot anyway, but resisting your chance of survival is not as great as conforming or not resisting. I’m just telling you the same thing I’m telling my hot headed 24 year old adult son.

I'll try and go research and look up some cases.
I understand and respect what you're saying and don't get me wrong, I'm not attacking you or anything, but I'm just tired of ppl's deflection and denial just to keep peace with the ppl that are trying to destroy us, I'd expect that from white folks but to hear/read it from black folks, that's like dayum, where they make you blacks folk at, you really don't see black ppl blood in these street out here.

My brotha, these times, especially when dealing with a white police officer, conforming or not resisting are on the same scale to Me, I may not get shot, but I may get taken to jail, etc..either or

Man educated the kids, man, hug yo kids I tell everybody that Lol
 
Like I was trying to tell my son who lives in Baton Rouge, I rather visit my c**n conforming son in his apartment than visiting my brave nonconforming son in the cemetery. Also, I don’t want to see his name in your list below.

My father told me that he would rather see me lose a ticket in court and have to pay $1000 than to see a ticket attached to my big toe.
 
Man the military personal approach civilians over there in Iraq with their citizens better than the cops do here..

BH done got him a passport, flew to Iraq, and saw this in motion w/ his own eyes and his 2 feets lol.

Man cease w/ that superfluous rhetoric. There's already more than enough naive black people running freely around here. smh
 
BH done got him a passport, flew to Iraq, and saw this in motion.

Man cease w/ that superfluous rhetoric. There's already more than enough naive black people running freely around here. smh

Na dude,

You should be aware how those folks are treated there and how black folks are treated here

Escalation or Escalational force, the 5 s'

Nothing superfluous about that statement, some military personal (branches) have to go through this process before they even can deal with the civilians overseas dude

dude your 4th amendment just got gutted, while you were cheering for Lebron

Look it up
 
These videos have destroyed my psyche. He shot that man after asking for license....in front of a child. As he bleeds out, the officer holds his gun at him and tells the gf not to move. Even if we comply we get killed! That cop was angry and that poor child will probably have ptsd- like symptoms after this. Sad.

Once again a black woman has to put her pain on hold in order to capture injustice as well as stay alive. America 2016.

Google the name "Levar Jones". He was stopped when the state trooper noticed he wasn't wearing a seat belt. When he (Jones) pulled over at a nearby gas station, he got out of his vehicle. The state trooper, Sean Groubert, asked him for his (Jones) license. Jones then gropes his pocket as if to produce his DL, but then turns to get it out of his truck. Just as he's turning back toward the trooper, the trooper shouts and Jones, who is now facing the state trooper, who fires his gun at Jones. Groupert, the state trooper told Jones that he (Jones) dove headfirst back into his vehicle. Levar Jones was not armed when he was shot by the state trooper.

Groupert was fired and charged with felony assault. This happened back in 2014.
 
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