sophandros
Free Thinker
The good ole boy network often starts with where you went to school, to which organizations you belong, and who your parents are friends with.
BE Top 50 Black Colleges
- Thread starter JROCK
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The good ole boy network often starts with where you went to school, to which organizations you belong, and who your parents are friends with.
CEE DOG
Well-Known Member
sophandros, I don't care what you say Ga,MS,Al, Tn and all the southern states will never change. Don't give me that crap you are talking I know about doors opening and networks. My father was one of the first blacks Coke hired in there corp. office in Atl. So I know about networks from the Pres. to the VP. so go tell that bull to somebody else. These good ole boys don't care about you going to Tulane man they would eat you alive then laugh about it.
sophandros
Free Thinker
That's funny, because I've had a different experience than you have, and I've some of it in the South, as well. I don't need to name drop in order to tell you how many doors I've had open for me. I can tell you, however, that the academic reputation of my school factored GREATLY in the last two jobs that I've held.
sophandros
Free Thinker
Go start one. No one is saying that things are perfect, but they are much better than they were in the past. You seem to have some deep issues, by the way.
JROCK
Preeminent
The operative word you used is "some" employers. Do you know what percentage? Further, what makes you "assume" that tiering is not inherently bias against black state owned instituions?
Finally, I dont "lose" with your perspective on standardized testing. Dont "assume" that not probable is definitive and always is accompanied by possibility.
Bartram
Brand HBCUbian
so many great takes on both sides here!
I can't speak to all of them. I would like to engage JRock on this, but don't have time to sift through all these replies and respond.
I don't see what the big suprise is about this list, but that's because I'm looking at the list from a strictly engineering major perspective.
As far as the real world and where you graduate from,,, I think graduating from a PWC gives you an instant boost, at the very minimum, in the state of the PWC. Graduating from an HBCU, you are just flat going to have a harder go of it and will be given less the benefit of the doubt. I would agree that, ultimately, it boils down to the individual no matter what school you went to, but the real world does not work like that. Also, due to more and better access to equipment and leading edge technology, some schools have advantages over others in that respect.
What I love about my experience at Tuskegee and NCA&T was the "underdog" aspect of the students that went through TU. When I was at TU from 82-87, I was STUNNED by the mugz that came from the so called "poorest counties/worst school systems in the state" (ERRRRR, the predominantly black, poorest counties in the state) that just STRAIGHT-UP BUSTED AAAAAAAAA$$ at Tuskegee and turned out, in hindsite, to be some of the most TENACIOUS, BRILLIANT MO-FOS I EVER MET and went on to BUST AAAAAAAAAAAA$$ at your HBCUs with masters programs and your Stanfords, your Cornells, your RPI, et al at the MS and PHd level if they decided to go that far.
At the same time, I dont' discount PWC mugz nor label them like they label HBCUs. There are some bad mo-fos dat went to PWCs. Just cause you go to a PWC don't mean you don't know ish. The bottom line is you better take everything on a case-by-case basis. Never under estimate anybody. It's great to have full opportunity and HBCU can't rest on lorals and the past and HBCUs must continuously improve and compete now days is all I can say in summary on this thread.
I can't speak to all of them. I would like to engage JRock on this, but don't have time to sift through all these replies and respond.
I don't see what the big suprise is about this list, but that's because I'm looking at the list from a strictly engineering major perspective.
As far as the real world and where you graduate from,,, I think graduating from a PWC gives you an instant boost, at the very minimum, in the state of the PWC. Graduating from an HBCU, you are just flat going to have a harder go of it and will be given less the benefit of the doubt. I would agree that, ultimately, it boils down to the individual no matter what school you went to, but the real world does not work like that. Also, due to more and better access to equipment and leading edge technology, some schools have advantages over others in that respect.
What I love about my experience at Tuskegee and NCA&T was the "underdog" aspect of the students that went through TU. When I was at TU from 82-87, I was STUNNED by the mugz that came from the so called "poorest counties/worst school systems in the state" (ERRRRR, the predominantly black, poorest counties in the state) that just STRAIGHT-UP BUSTED AAAAAAAAA$$ at Tuskegee and turned out, in hindsite, to be some of the most TENACIOUS, BRILLIANT MO-FOS I EVER MET and went on to BUST AAAAAAAAAAAA$$ at your HBCUs with masters programs and your Stanfords, your Cornells, your RPI, et al at the MS and PHd level if they decided to go that far.
At the same time, I dont' discount PWC mugz nor label them like they label HBCUs. There are some bad mo-fos dat went to PWCs. Just cause you go to a PWC don't mean you don't know ish. The bottom line is you better take everything on a case-by-case basis. Never under estimate anybody. It's great to have full opportunity and HBCU can't rest on lorals and the past and HBCUs must continuously improve and compete now days is all I can say in summary on this thread.
I attended both
I started school at the Univ of Wisconsin at Madison one of Americas finest universities while I enjoyed my stay there my most well rounded experience was at Southern university there I learned that there is a difference between black and white first of all most pwc only accept the best of us so you truly only get to see one kind of black person . At Southern I learned that black people come from all different walks of life you find those things out when your around TEN THOUSAND black people as compared 743 at Wisconsin that's right 743 out of 41,000. Do you guys know there are more blacks at JSU,SU,and TxSU than at all SEC schools combined and more at Southern than at all Big 10 schools combined checkout there enrollment numbers at their websities but look for blacks not minority. As for blacks being a monolith the more black people you interact with the more divirsity you see. As for comparing GT, Howard, Swac schools those are apples , oranges,andpears first of all Howard does not represent the whole MEAC its a private school with a large endowment so is Hampton while those schools excel, schools like Delaware state, Morgan State and MarylandEast Shore struggle. It is not uncommon for Southern, NcA&T, and PVU to trade places in graduating the most black engineers in the country. These are swac and meac schools besides Famu 's agriculture program is based on Southern's because our Ag department is one of only five in country set up the way it is with it own chancellor and campus adding a fifth campus to Americas only HISTORICALLY BLACK COLLEGE SYSTEM you know like the UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA OR THE UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS.
It never ceases to amaze that we are the only people in America that put our own schools down in order to uplift schools that won't even accept the talented tenth you can go to any school you want to but keep this in mind according to the DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION while only 25 percent of blacks who attend college attend HBCU's 64percent of those who graduate from college graduate from HBCU'S. By the way according to the same report only 26 percent of Americans hold college degrees. Southern 's main campus is in Baton Rouge, their are also campuses in Sherveport la, New Orleans, The school of Law, and the School of Agriculture.
I started school at the Univ of Wisconsin at Madison one of Americas finest universities while I enjoyed my stay there my most well rounded experience was at Southern university there I learned that there is a difference between black and white first of all most pwc only accept the best of us so you truly only get to see one kind of black person . At Southern I learned that black people come from all different walks of life you find those things out when your around TEN THOUSAND black people as compared 743 at Wisconsin that's right 743 out of 41,000. Do you guys know there are more blacks at JSU,SU,and TxSU than at all SEC schools combined and more at Southern than at all Big 10 schools combined checkout there enrollment numbers at their websities but look for blacks not minority. As for blacks being a monolith the more black people you interact with the more divirsity you see. As for comparing GT, Howard, Swac schools those are apples , oranges,andpears first of all Howard does not represent the whole MEAC its a private school with a large endowment so is Hampton while those schools excel, schools like Delaware state, Morgan State and MarylandEast Shore struggle. It is not uncommon for Southern, NcA&T, and PVU to trade places in graduating the most black engineers in the country. These are swac and meac schools besides Famu 's agriculture program is based on Southern's because our Ag department is one of only five in country set up the way it is with it own chancellor and campus adding a fifth campus to Americas only HISTORICALLY BLACK COLLEGE SYSTEM you know like the UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA OR THE UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS.
It never ceases to amaze that we are the only people in America that put our own schools down in order to uplift schools that won't even accept the talented tenth you can go to any school you want to but keep this in mind according to the DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION while only 25 percent of blacks who attend college attend HBCU's 64percent of those who graduate from college graduate from HBCU'S. By the way according to the same report only 26 percent of Americans hold college degrees. Southern 's main campus is in Baton Rouge, their are also campuses in Sherveport la, New Orleans, The school of Law, and the School of Agriculture.
sophandros
Free Thinker
I posted this on the Sports Board
Grambling 11-15
JSU 20
Tex. South. ~20
Ala. St. ~20
UAPB ~20
Alcorn 11-15
SU 6-10
MVSU ~20
AAMU 6-10
PVAM N/A
What are these numbers? Football graduation rates from NCAA.org. We need these numbers, as well as the overall graduation rates to be higher. NOT ONE SWAC school had a student body grad rate above 50%, and Southern and Alabama A&M are giving places like Tennessee and Oklahoma runs for their money when it comes to treating football players (almost exclusively young Black men) like chattel.
The argument against paying players is usually, "they're getting an education for their services..." Well, clearly, this is not the case.
Grambling 11-15
JSU 20
Tex. South. ~20
Ala. St. ~20
UAPB ~20
Alcorn 11-15
SU 6-10
MVSU ~20
AAMU 6-10
PVAM N/A
What are these numbers? Football graduation rates from NCAA.org. We need these numbers, as well as the overall graduation rates to be higher. NOT ONE SWAC school had a student body grad rate above 50%, and Southern and Alabama A&M are giving places like Tennessee and Oklahoma runs for their money when it comes to treating football players (almost exclusively young Black men) like chattel.
The argument against paying players is usually, "they're getting an education for their services..." Well, clearly, this is not the case.
SOPHANDROS
Do you know the background behind these number most SWAC schools are public and have either very low or no admission standards so there mission is different. Second in these surveys transfers don't count only players who started and finished at the same school as a matter of fact they count against the grad rate. It also doesn't count players who stay over five years but still graduate. According to the Dept of Education it takes the average student 5yrs
to graduate. That's going fulltime.
Do you know the background behind these number most SWAC schools are public and have either very low or no admission standards so there mission is different. Second in these surveys transfers don't count only players who started and finished at the same school as a matter of fact they count against the grad rate. It also doesn't count players who stay over five years but still graduate. According to the Dept of Education it takes the average student 5yrs
to graduate. That's going fulltime.
G Lion
Active Member
"Luke, what we have here is a failure to communicate!":lmao:
Yes the poll is bogus, you would need two polls to be correct. One for the elitist and one for the common man. Kind of like the house and field isht...
Most hbcu's are state schools and a good majority of their students are still first generation college students, while the students at elitist schools such as a Howard, Hampton, Spelman and a lot of the pwc's are often second and third generation college students and their is a difference. Both are needed but one is not better than the other...
My question is which is more valuable to society???
We are only as strong as our weakest link!
Have a good Day!
Yes the poll is bogus, you would need two polls to be correct. One for the elitist and one for the common man. Kind of like the house and field isht...
Most hbcu's are state schools and a good majority of their students are still first generation college students, while the students at elitist schools such as a Howard, Hampton, Spelman and a lot of the pwc's are often second and third generation college students and their is a difference. Both are needed but one is not better than the other...
My question is which is more valuable to society???
We are only as strong as our weakest link!
Have a good Day!
C-LeB28
Moderator
Texas Southern's Robert J. Terry Library houses many of the university?s treasured collections, including the Mickey Leland and Barbara Jordan archives and the Heartman Collection. The Heartman collection is the largest known collection of rare documents relating to African American and slave history (larger than the Library of Congress). Its earliest documents date back to the 1600?s and Texas Southern University purchased this collection while Dr. O?Hara Lanier was President .
sophandros
Free Thinker
Re: SOPHANDROS
I know that, and the NCAA uses SIX year periods for their grad rates, and it takes into account transfer students.
I know that, and the NCAA uses SIX year periods for their grad rates, and it takes into account transfer students.
sophandros
Free Thinker
The Amistad Research Center is the largest archive of African American History in America, not the largest collection of rare items. It is the largest collection of documents. PERIOD.
sophandros
Free Thinker
BTW, the reason that I posted grad rates is two-fold. One is that this level of abuse takes place all over America, and something needs to be done. These guys go out there and make millions for their schools, never seeing a dime of it. The argument is that they are getting an education, but if they aren't graduating, then what education are they getting? Furthermore, along with the athletic grad rates, the NCAA posts the general grad rates of the schools. These numbers are also low at the schools that I listed above. One has to wonder about the factors involved: school support, family support, student motivation, economics, etc. One has to wonder whether the schools themselves have taken this into consideration.
Originally posted by mighty hornet
Well then, exactly how many black professionals do ASU graduate every year?
:smh:
And please explain how "the MEAC excels at being great schools for blacks, compared to the SWAC"
mh, I do not think that you question was answered. I am still waiting.
Now, I have only come across a few Alabama State grads. But I have come across a lot of people from Fort Valley, where a lot of my relatives went, and some from Albany State and Savannah State. As a second generation PV grad I have of course come across a lot of grads from PV. I know that schools like PVAMU, FVSU, ASU (Alcorn, Alabama State, and Albany State), and SSU. Graduates from those schools can compete and have competed with grads from any other institution. As GST said most of the Black grad students at Georgia Tech come from HBCUs. Over half of the Black engineering grad students previously finished from an HBCU before coming to Texas A&M. BTW they finished. Like it or not. Believe it or not. Those facts can't lie.
Let's understand this. SWAC schools educate students that most other schools will not touch. I will stand behind that statement 100%.
C-LeB28
Moderator
And I as well. Texas Southern is an open admissions institution. Texas Southern takes kids that other local campuses would call the law on if were on their campus and TSU educates and nutures them and develop them into productive and professional citizens.
Is Texas Southern for every African American? No.
Is Notre Dame for every Catholic? No
Is Baylor for every Baptist? No.
Is Yeshiva for every Jew? No.
But I applaud Texas Southern as well as some other institutions of higher learning to open it's doors to the disadvantaged youth who would have no other choice.
sophandros
Free Thinker
I agree with you on that, and that is another reason that this list is invalid.
sophandros
Free Thinker
Both are equally valuable. One starts a tradition within a family and the other perpetuates a tradition. I think that your question is like asking whether the first leg or the third leg of a relay is more valuable.
sophandros
Free Thinker
Originally posted by str8brave
Now there is where Dwight Mann has you fooled. No, it is much more subtle than better.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but you're wrong.