JROCK
Preeminent
Just a bunch of back peddling & waffling. :smh: :lol: :emlaugh:
Are Pookie and Ray Ray the basis of some blacks choosing Republican?
- Thread starter BRAVEHEART123
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Just a bunch of back peddling & waffling. :smh: :lol: :emlaugh:
MetroPhillyTiger
Well-Known Member
More smart brothers.I'm glad you all brought Barry Goldwater into the conversation because that's where I was heading.
There are two things that I think contributed to Blacks starting to vote en masse for Democrats in 1964:
1) Barry Goldwater didn't support the Civil Rights Act of 1964 which allowed the Democrats to successfully portray him as a racist. Moderate Republicans did not support Goldwater because of this, but they neglected to solicit the Black vote though they had been more in favor of civil rights legislation than the Democrats to this point. Big mistake.
The Democrats were able to paint Barry Goldwater/racist which meant Republicans/racist to Black people. In 1964, even if Barry Goldwater was racist, he was no more racist than many in the Democratic party. The Democrats of the time had been fighting against civil rights much harder than the Republican Party had. Yet, we bought the Republican - racist, Democrat - not racist lie hook, line and sinker. When in fact they were BOTH racist and still are as far as I'm concerned.
2) Great Society domestic programs. These domestic programs that Lyndon Baines Johnson supported (most of which are still around today) gave a lot of hope to the country, but especially to a people on the verge of escaping second-class citizenship. Many of the programs don't apply to this discussion, but the few that do played a huge role in keeping many of our people mired in second-class citizenship. From public housing to supposed aid to families with dependent child children that require(d) one to be in poverty to qualify for it or for a father to not be in the home ... the destruction they have caused to our community is not debatable. Yet, this "help" from the government - particularly the Democrats - seemed like a blessing at the time. So, we hitched ourselves to the Democrats. Many of us now wonder if it was a curse. And if it was intentionally done by those who knew that a self-reliant, independent people would be much more economically powerful and politically powerful than we are today.
I think you've again been influenced by right-wing rhetoric regarding these programs. What most likely happened was that these programs were unfunded by Republicans and the excuse being used is what you are citing now.
The Great Society was a war on poverty and was led by Lyndon B Johnson. There were several things involved in the Great Society :
a. Higher Education Act which allowed more students to attend college from things such as Pell Grants and loans, etc.
b. It also included the Water Quality Act which started the testing of water for pollutants and bacteria in the water.
c. The Air Quality Act also set standards for industrial and auto emissions.
d. The Civil Rights Act outlawed segregation in all public places and facilities.
e. Elementary and Secondary Education Act (1965) wanted federal money to be given to bring all schools up to a code and for all schools to have the same quality education. The money was also used for libraries and new technology, special education, adult education, etc.
f. The Medical Care Act (1965) was a compulsory system. Each pay check was docked to provide medical care for the elderly and the young.
g. The National Endowment For the Arts and Humanities promoted creativity; PBS was born from this program
h. The Model Cities Act (1966) made it so the cities could apply for federal aid to clean up slums
i. Head Start programs as well as CAP and VISTA was also created.
The US now had a form of a welfare system. Poverty levels declined (In 1973, only 11% of the population was under the poverty line). It divided the Democratic Party (Southern democrats were angry about the new Civil Rights Act and started to turn conservative). This plan also created a budget deficit because the U.S could not afford both Vietnam and the Great Society.
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SUJagFan
Well-Known Member
Well, I wouldn't want to waffle and backpedal ....
:lol:
Interesting that's what you got out of it though. No chance of opening your mind and seeing things from a different perspective, huh? :lol:
jsupop33
Loyalty & Respect
Funny thing about Reagan is that by all accounts, he was a genuinely nice person and often wrote checks to strangers to help pay for surgeries or buy groceries. However, his administration did a hell of a lot to hurt poor people. His enterprise zones idea could have worked if he would have been willing to put pressures on banks to make loans.
MetroPhillyTiger
Well-Known Member
...Well...I decided to go in a little more detail...(see edit of previous post).
The first clue that something was wrong with what you are saying is that its all over the right-wing blogs. You can also couple that with our tendency of accepting simple solutions for complex problems. So, after filtering out the partisan stuff, a simple chart was found that showed that poverty decreased 11% by 1970. Another thing to consider is that the Great Society was hated by conservatives because it is regarded by them as socialism. I personally believe that blacks have made great strides from the 60s to today.
What is actually going on today is that instead of chipping away at the so called Great Society, conservatives are hammering away at it.
You do realize that the conservative supreme court struck down the enforcement portion of the Voting Rights Act and now states like TX & NC, who are afraid of being turned over to Democrats, are now imposing tighter voting restrictions.
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SUJagFan
Well-Known Member
See, that's the problem. In your rush to disagree with me and prove me wrong, you overlooked what I said three sentences above my comments that you highlighted.
There are many Great Society programs that were and are still beneficial to country. Those things are a major part of the reason LBJ won by a landslide. However, I'm not talking about all of the programs. Nor do I think the programs are a reason for Black people to be voting strictly Democrat 50 years later.
What I'm talking about is specific rules written into certain programs that disproportionately affected Blacks that I believe has prolonged or increased Black despair and hopelessness rather than decreasing it. I believe - and you have every right to disagree with me - that some of these specific rules were made purposefully harmful to the Black family, Black economic independence and the overall psyche of the Black community. Giving us civil rights and voting rights on one hand while making a large subset of us weak and dependent on the other hand. Thus, insuring that we never truly become equal participants in this American journey. Because a dependent people can never be equal. No matter how many "rights" you give them.
In my mind, I think those things alone are enough to reconsider our ties to the Democratic Party. If there is policy to be made, we need to be in a position to demand that it be beneficial to the Black community. Our bargaining and negotiating power is diminished when we're attached at the hip to the Democrats and they can afford to ignore us until election time. Only to pacify us with more empty promises.
No, the way to increase our political influence is to be solely in control of our political power and not beholden to anyone.
SUJagFan
Well-Known Member
Brother, you wrongly assume that since I'm attacking Democrats in this thread that I must be a Republican. Nothing is further from the truth. I see all of these things you're mentioning though I don't read conservative blogs. I can imagine you find that hard to believe, but it's true.
My primary concern is the good of Black people. Neither Republican nor Democrat. Conservative nor liberal. Simply what is best for Black people politically, economically and socially.
The attack on the Democrats and the idea that Blacks should only vote Democratic must be harsh and vicious. Jarring. Shocking. Because it's such an entrenched idea and people don't notice or pay attention to lukewarm thoughts and actions. People pay attention to extremes. That's why I do what I do. I'm not as stupid as I sound sometimes. :lol: And you're still discussing because apparently this topic is important to you also.
My underlying point though ... is not harmful at all.
BRAVEHEART123
The Clown Prince of Crime
What I meant by Pookie and Ray Ray is that have some black people been so embarrassed by being "labeled" due to the antics of Pookie and Ray Ray that they choose Republican in self-hatred not because they are ashamed they are Black but because they are angry they must constantly fight the label established by Pookie and Ray Ray.
It seems to me:
Liberal Black (White vs. Black is the core of issues)
Conservative Black (Black vs. Black is the core of issues)
Honestly, I think Liberal and Conservative blacks are sick of Pookie and Ray Ray to be honest.
It seems to me:
Liberal Black (White vs. Black is the core of issues)
Conservative Black (Black vs. Black is the core of issues)
Honestly, I think Liberal and Conservative blacks are sick of Pookie and Ray Ray to be honest.
J C
Well-Known Member
Interesting theory Braveheart123. Is it that simple or a bit more complexed? Regardless, this is a good thread.
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Such as?
jsupop33
Loyalty & Respect
In a way, I have a respect for black republicans. Not the puppets but the ones like Colin who are willing to believe what they believe and stand for what they stand for even when the masses attack them for it. The ability to stand alone on one's own merit when the world pushes against is something I admire.
CEE DOG
Well-Known Member
Well that is the same thing a Democrat has to deal when dealing with black republicans and so called conservative whites. Believe in my field of work all you hear is socialism this, socialism that, but to shut these mofo's up all you have to do is tell the truth about how they get over double dipping on the government and they run like a gay dude for a bags of hot dycks.
jsupop33
Loyalty & Respect
I am from south Mississippi Cee. Trust me man, I know. When I look at the messageboards for my hometown online, they attack Obama everyday. I am the only democrat on there. I have them jokers mad...Honestly, even the common sense republicans I know back home hate them tea party folks. You should have seen them folks when they came to DC back in 2010 to protest healthcare.... :shame:
MetroPhillyTiger
Well-Known Member
Don't forget about the WMDs.
jsupop33
Loyalty & Respect
That wasn't Colin fault.
JAG89
THE NEW AMERICA'S TEAM
What I hate the most about some Democrats, particularly Black Democrats, they witness a lot of White Republicans stealing and milking the system and instead of putting those Republicans on blast, a lot of Black Democrats end up joining in and doing the same, such as Congressmen William Jefferson and Jessie Jackson, Jr. It's funny how most that get caught are Black Democrats.
JAG89
THE NEW AMERICA'S TEAM
True....He was following the script that was put in place by the Bush/Chaney Administration.
jsupop33
Loyalty & Respect
Those idiots touched the money directly instead of funneling it through their friends. Much easier to get your friends rich and have them repay you when u leave office.
JAG89
THE NEW AMERICA'S TEAM
Sure they did, but I bet they wouldn't have done what they did if they hadn't experienced someone else doing it. They were just doing what others have been doing for years, but they got careless. We need to start demanding our politicians that they must maintain INTEGRITY while serving in office, no matter what they experience from others.
jsupop33
Loyalty & Respect
Or just be smarter, don't directly funnel money to yourself. There are much better ways to come up. When Mark Warner worked on the hill, he helped write telecommunications legislation then immediately and left started a venture capitalist firm that helped launch Nextel... We want to touch the money while still in office.
JAG89
THE NEW AMERICA'S TEAM
I guess he worked a lot with John McCain, since he was Senate chairman for the FCC during the Bush's Administration.
jsupop33
Loyalty & Respect
Nope, He worked for Chris Dodd back in the day. He went and got rich then ran for Governor and is now a Senator from VA.
SUJagFan
Well-Known Member
Agreed. Any time you openly go against the grain in the Black community you can expect to be ridiculed and ostracized. A conservative Black person is usually clear about who they are and what they believe. I can definitely respect a person that stands by his/her convictions no matter what.
Also, suggesting that Black Republicans hate Pookie and Ray Ray is like saying a parent who believes in tough love hates their children or themselves. Tough love is not about hating your children. It's definitely not self-hate. Actually, those parents can be just as loving, caring and protective of their children as any other. They just expect the kids to act right or else. That actions (or inaction) create consequences. It has nothing to do with hatred of others or self.
CEE DOG
Well-Known Member
You are correct in saying conservatives believe in what they stand for. Clarence Thomas admits affirmative action helped him get where he is and that is why he would like to end it. If that isn't standing for what you believe in I don't know what else to call it. :tup: Allen west says he grew up on Auburn Ave in the hood of the Atl and he was never profiled and never treated differently by southern haters like other southerners say. Yeah that is really believing in what you stand for.
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