Some thoughts aboout the R Kelly trial

[PVSAX99]

If it's proven the girls "preyed" on the older men or wanted to have sex with the older man...then no punishment to either one.

It is what it is.

That's what we've...well I've been saying.

Why punish one if BOTH agreed to it and wanted it?

Will she regret it in the future? Maybe so, maybe not. Shucks there are GROWN women that regret having sex with men after the fact. So the fact that she's younger and she doesn't know what she's doing, but the man (older person) knows what they are doing....really doesn't fly with me.

I couldn't agree with you more!

Which...ONCE AGAIN brings me to my initial question:

What is the point of this particular case?

 

[PVSAX99]

I still don't think it is right for a 30-year-old man/woman to have sex with a teenager even if the teen says it is fine. What if that teen girl becomes pregnant or a teen boy impregnates a woman? Is that cool?

It is creepy to me that adults have to turn to teens and pre-teens for sex. I seriously doubt that adults. I find it hard to believe that adults will just let a teenager make them believe it is OK to have sex with them--especially if that adult has children.

It's wrong in like 95 different ways.

I think teens should only be punished if they lie about being raped.

I agree. It's not right for a 30 something year old person to have sex with a minor.

But, do you really believe that it's okay for a minor to have sex with an older aged celebrity and not suffer any consequence? If the courts see it your way, then teenagers and adults will continue to have sex with each other.

I say that because it's apparent that these statutory rape cases are doing nothing to remedy this epidemic...because these cases are only attacking half the problem.

If they aren't going to fix the ENTIRE problem, then why bother involving themselves in something that doesn't concern them?

 

[southsuburbs]

I still don't think it is right for a 30-year-old man/woman to have sex with a teenager even if the teen says it is fine. What if that teen girl becomes pregnant or a teen boy impregnates a woman? Is that cool?

It is creepy to me that adults have to turn to teens and pre-teens for sex. I seriously doubt that adults. I find it hard to believe that adults will just let a teenager make them believe it is OK to have sex with them--especially if that adult has children.

It's wrong in like 95 different ways.

I think teens should only be punished if they lie about being raped.

Why is it wrong? It's done in other countries and I"m not talking about where girls are forced or raped, etc.

Why is it wrong? b/c there's a law against it? Who made the law?

I have a friend who is a year older than me. When she was 22/23 she dated a 50+ year old man. I couldn't understand that. I couldn't understand what he could possibly have in common with her.

Just b/c there are "laws" that say it's wrong...doesn't necessarily mean it is.

Again...if the younger person does not WANT to do it, or doesn't feel comfortable then it's wrong. But that's with any age.

It was consensual.

 

[PVSAX99]

Why is it wrong? It's done in other countries and I"m not talking about where girls are forced or raped, etc.

Why is it wrong? b/c there's a law against it? Who made the law?

...

Probably the same knuckle-heads that made it illegal to beat the hell outta of your kids when they act up.

Sad thing about this...these politicians probably don't even have any kids themselves...and that's probably because they were too old and ugly for anyone to want to mess around with them in the first place.


I don't have a problem with the law in and of itself. I have a problem when people abuse the law and try to use it's misinterpretations to fulfill their own agendas.

 

[Kendrick]

Why is it wrong? It's done in other countries and I"m not talking about where girls are forced or raped, etc.

Why is it wrong? b/c there's a law against it? Who made the law?

I have a friend who is a year older than me. When she was 22/23 she dated a 50+ year old man. I couldn't understand that. I couldn't understand what he could possibly have in common with her.

Just b/c there are "laws" that say it's wrong...doesn't necessarily mean it is.

Again...if the younger person does not WANT to do it, or doesn't feel comfortable then it's wrong. But that's with any age.

It was consensual.

So if you give a 12-year-old a gun because he wanted it and he goes out and shoots someone, would that be fine to? I know that sounds extreme but it seems like the law is being twisted to make the offense not look so bad.

I understand that teen girls and boys know about sex. What teenager does not know about it these days?

However, someone 13, 14 or 15 can't understand what participating in that activity with someone 10-20 years older than them really means and how it affects everyone around them. A teen might think he/she is ready to have sex with someone older, but if we use common sense, we know that is not true. Their body might be physically ready, but not mentally.

 

[Kendrick]

Probably the same knuckle-heads that made it illegal to beat the hell outta of your kids when they act up.

Sad thing about this...these politicians probably don't even have any kids themselves...and that's probably because they were too old and ugly for anyone to want to mess around with them in the first place.


I don't have a problem with the law in and of itself. I have a problem when people abuse the law and try to use it's misinterpretations to fulfill their own agendas.

I don't agree with that at all.

It seems to me that you are upset that R. Kelly--a famous black man--is on trial and overlooking the big picture here. You sound like you know a lot of cases where teens are just going around sleeping with adults. It is really not like that. It is a very, very, very small percentage of teens that sleep with adults on their own free will.

More often than not that interaction results in teens being raped, hurt or killed. That in itself should deter teens from even thinking about it. But I know some do anyway. However, some adults do it even though it is illegal. But folks know it is illegal to kill and steal and people still do it. Kids get punished by their parents for doing wrong, but guess what? Kids still do wrong and will get punished.

Should we change the law for those people because it was something they wanted to do. Just because the activity does not "hurt" anyone does not mean it should not be a big deal.

According to the law, it is wrong to for adults to sleep with children. And even if it both parties were punished, it still would be wrong.

 

[PVSAX99]

So if you give a 12-year-old a gun because he wanted it and he goes out and shoots someone, would that be fine to? I know that sounds extreme but it seems like the law is being twisted to make the offense not look so bad.

I understand that teen girls and boys know about sex. What teenager does not know about it these days?

However, someone 13, 14 or 15 can't understand what participating in that activity with someone 10-20 years older than them really means and how it affects everyone around them. A teen might think he/she is ready to have sex with someone older, but if we use common sense, we know that is not true. Their body might be physically ready, but not mentally.

We can say the same thing about some of these grown folks out there. And why can 13, 14 and 15 year olds understand it? How is it that much different when minors have sex with other minors if it was consensual? They understand it perfectly then. So where does this understanding go all of a sudden?

But I digress...

 

[southsuburbs]

I don't agree with that at all.

It seems to me that you are upset that R. Kelly--a famous black man--is on trial and overlooking the big picture here. You sound like you know a lot of cases where teens are just going around sleeping with adults. It is really not like that. It is a very, very, very small percentage of teens that sleep with adults on their own free will.

More often than not that interaction results in teens being raped, hurt or killed. That in itself should deter teens from even thinking about it. But I know some do anyway. However, some adults do it even though it is illegal. But folks know it is illegal to kill and steal and people still do it. Kids get punished by their parents for doing wrong, but guess what? Kids still do wrong and will get punished.

Should we change the law for those people because it was something they wanted to do. Just because the activity does not "hurt" anyone does not mean it should not be a big deal.

According to the law, it is wrong to for adults to sleep with children. And even if it both parties were punished, it still would be wrong.

I really could care less about R. Kelly all I'm saying is that if nobody is getting hurt....and nobody got hurt, why are we putting this man on trial?

This actually happens a lot more than it's publicized.

So if you give a 12-year-old a gun because he wanted it and he goes out and shoots someone, would that be fine to? I know that sounds extreme but it seems like the law is being twisted to make the offense not look so bad.

I understand that teen girls and boys know about sex. What teenager does not know about it these days?

However, someone 13, 14 or 15 can't understand what participating in that activity with someone 10-20 years older than them really means and how it affects everyone around them. A teen might think he/she is ready to have sex with someone older, but if we use common sense, we know that is not true. Their body might be physically ready, but not mentally.

if a 12 year old uses a gun to commit a crime, then yes he/she should be punished severly. They know it's illegal, it's wrong, etc. Now they might not THINK they are going to get caught and are shocked and scared once it happens. BUT they know/knew it was wrong.

 

[SUtrp96]

So if you give a 12-year-old a gun because he wanted it and he goes out and shoots someone, would that be fine to? I know that sounds extreme but it seems like the law is being twisted to make the offense not look so bad.

I understand that teen girls and boys know about sex. What teenager does not know about it these days?

However, someone 13, 14 or 15 can't understand what participating in that activity with someone 10-20 years older than them really means and how it affects everyone around them. A teen might think he/she is ready to have sex with someone older, but if we use common sense, we know that is not true. Their body might be physically ready, but not mentally.

Basically you are saying they shouldn't have sex with someone (older) because their body might be physically ready but not mentally... How are you mentally ready to have sex with someone your age but not someone older/younger?

 

[PVSAX99]

I don't agree with that at all.

It seems to me that you are upset that R. Kelly--a famous black man--is on trial and overlooking the big picture here. You sound like you know a lot of cases where teens are just going around sleeping with adults. It is really not like that. It is a very, very, very small percentage of teens that sleep with adults on their own free will.

More often than not that interaction results in teens being raped, hurt or killed. That in itself should deter teens from even thinking about it. But I know some do anyway. However, some adults do it even though it is illegal. But folks know it is illegal to kill and steal and people still do it. Kids get punished by their parents for doing wrong, but guess what? Kids still do wrong and will get punished.

Should we change the law for those people because it was something they wanted to do. Just because the activity does not "hurt" anyone does not mean it should not be a big deal.

According to the law, it is wrong to for adults to sleep with children. And even if it both parties were punished, it still would be wrong.

That is exactly my point.

Why focus on THIS case in particular (or cases like these), when there are so many other similar cases where what was done was actually considered a crime and somebody actually got hurt? Is it BECAUSE he's a celebrity?

In this Kelly trial, even though they BOTH committed crimes, nobody got hurt, and the sex was still consensual.

If no celebs were involved, they would have been took Kelly to jail...more so for soliciting sex than rape, and they would have labeled the girl as a prostitute, and probably sent her to the appropriate facilities and got her some help.

I think we agree that the laws are in place for a reason...and nobody is above them (regardless of how twisted they have become). I just don't think that the "she was only a teenager and didn't know any better" argument carries any merit.

 

[Kendrick]

I really could care less about R. Kelly all I'm saying is that if nobody is getting hurt....and nobody got hurt, why are we putting this man on trial?

This actually happens a lot more than it's publicized.



if a 12 year old uses a gun to commit a crime, then yes he/she should be punished severly. They know it's illegal, it's wrong, etc. Now they might not THINK they are going to get caught and are shocked and scared once it happens. BUT they know/knew it was wrong.

1.How do you know that a 12-year-old knows it wrong to kill with a gun if no one tells them that it is wrong?

2. So if a person shoots a gun into a crowd of people and no one gets hurts should we over look that?

3. R. Kelly is on trial because he broke the law. I know you might not agree with it, but that the way it is. It is not like the girl lied about it. The law was laid out in front of R. Kelly and he did it anyway. R. Kelly knew it was illegal to do so. He knew it, but still went through with the act.

That's why he is on trial. There is no way a 13-year-old kid should put you in a position to go to jail.

Now, I have told you why I think adults and teens should not have sex. Why do you think they should if both parties agree?

 

[southsuburbs]

1.How do you know that a 12-year-old knows it wrong to kill with a gun if no one tells them that it is wrong?

2. So if a person shoots a gun into a crowd of people and no one gets hurts should we over look that?

3. R. Kelly is on trial because he broke the law. I know you might not agree with it, but that the way it is. It is not like the girl lied about it. The law was laid out in front of R. Kelly and he did it anyway. R. Kelly knew it was illegal to do so. He knew it, but still went through with the act.

That's why he is on trial. There is no way a 13-year-old kid should put you in a position to go to jail.

Now, I have told you why I think adults and teens should not have sex. Why do you think they should if both parties agree?

1. Just from your #1 response, I can see why we are (agreeing) to disagree. We are talking about two different groups of teenagers.
Yours are fantasy group of teens...the innocent ones that don't know anything.
Mine are a reality group of teens. They know about sex, they know if they want to have sex or not.
About guns they know:
it's illegal to have a gun
it's illegal to shoot someone
it's illegal to pull a gun on someone

So yeah....that stuff you posted in #1 response, that's some other fantasy child I don't know about. LOL

2. No we should not overlook that, but it's not the same thing here. You're comparing GUN usage to consenual sex.

3. The 13 year old knew it was illegal for R. Kelly to be having sex with her as well. See where I'm going with this...They BOTH were wrong!! LOL

I think adults and teens should have sex if BOTH parties agree b/c it's their choice. It has not been proven by what I have seen, that a person that is over 21 will handle a sexual relationship better than a teenager. Just as I stated....adult women (and men) dont' know how to handle sexual relationships better than teenagers. So why are we punishing people here!??

I'm still LOL @ you saying a 12-year old might not know it's wrong to kill someone, let alone be in possession of a gun!! In the City of CHicago?!?! On the South Side!??! Come on now.....

:lmao::lmao::lmao:

 

[SUtrp96]

1.How do you know that a 12-year-old knows it wrong to kill with a gun if no one tells them that it is wrong?

2. So if a person shoots a gun into a crowd of people and no one gets hurts should we over look that?

3. R. Kelly is on trial because he broke the law. I know you might not agree with it, but that the way it is. It is not like the girl lied about it. The law was laid out in front of R. Kelly and he did it anyway. R. Kelly knew it was illegal to do so. He knew it, but still went through with the act.

That's why he is on trial. There is no way a 13-year-old kid should put you in a position to go to jail.

Now, I have told you why I think adults and teens should not have sex. Why do you think they should if both parties agree?

It seems to me, you can't made a legit point by constantly twisting everyone words...

How many times everyone in here has to say we know R. Kelly is guilty?!?!

Can you understand our point about holding both parties accountable in a case such as this where both parties more than willingly participated? Or are you living under a rock to believe that it isn't many cases like this?

When I was in high school, I was a Junior and we had girls in our class with pictures of their boyfriends who were over 22 with their mothers in the picture like they were one big happy family...

My lil cousin first kid was when she was in high school (10th grade) and her BF at the time was a freshman in college....

I didn't agree with that pregnacy.. but ain't no way we was keeping her from her BF.. if it was a law where she would have been punished for even dealing with him, (I know my cousin) she wouldn't have did it because of her fear for the law..

These girls have nothing to fear, if anything they can use sex with someone they like that is older as a black male card and many of them do...

 

[PVSAX99]

1.How do you know that a 12-year-old knows it wrong to kill with a gun if no one tells them that it is wrong?

2. So if a person shoots a gun into a crowd of people and no one gets hurts should we over look that?

3. R. Kelly is on trial because he broke the law. I know you might not agree with it, but that the way it is. It is not like the girl lied about it. The law was laid out in front of R. Kelly and he did it anyway. R. Kelly knew it was illegal to do so. He knew it, but still went through with the act.

That's why he is on trial. There is no way a 13-year-old kid should put you in a position to go to jail.

Now, I have told you why I think adults and teens should not have sex. Why do you think they should if both parties agree?

Who brought up this "12 year old with a gun" analogy? It doesn't relate to the Kelly trial.

1. Whether the 12 year old knows if it's illegal or not...it is still illegal and he should pay the consequences...right?

2. What if somebody had a bologna sandwich in a cheese factory? "What does this have to do with the Kelly trial", you ask? I was just about to ask you the same question about what you're saying....lol

3. Nobody denies that what Kelly did was illegal. The point is that if they are going to go after him because he broke the law, they ought to go after her because she broke the law too.

 

[SUtrp96]

Who brought up this "12 year old with a gun" analogy? It doesn't relate to the Kelly trial.

1. Whether the 12 year old knows if it's illegal or not...it is still illegal and he should pay the consequences...right?

2. What if somebody had a bologna sandwich in a cheese factory? "What does this have to do with the Kelly trial", you ask? I was just about to ask you the same question about what you're saying....lol

3. Nobody denies that what Kelly did was illegal. The point is that if they are going to go after him because he broke the law, they ought to go after her because she broke the law too.

A good example of what is happening is...

It is illegal to break into a store and steal....

What happens if the store owner breaks into the store with the robber and and they both steal out the store together?

 

[Apaquelypse]

Wait!!!!! Who said that adults and teens should be able to have sex!?!?!?!?!??!?!

Oh hell no!!!! That should not be legal for either person. A 13 year and and a grown man. NO, NO, NO, Cant happen, shouldnt happen!!!!!!!!

And I dont have anything to back it up with except "THAT'S JUST DAMN NASTY!!!!!!!!"

 

[Kendrick]

How can both parties have broken the law when there is no law against a teenager having sex with an adult?

 

[SleepyCrat]

How can both parties have broken the law when there is no law against a teenager having sex with an adult?

That's the whole point everyone is trying to make. They are saying that teens that pursue and have sex with adults should incur some form of punishment just as the adult would. If there is no form of punishment for the teens there is nothing to stop them from participating in the crime.

Peace and Practice

 

[SUtrp96]

That's the whole point everyone is trying to make. They are saying that teens that pursue and have sex with adults should incur some form of punishment just as the adult would. If there is no form of punishment for the teens there is nothing to stop them from participating in the crime.

Peace and Practice

Many thanks for breaking that down for dude....My fingers were getting tired...lol

 

[JaguarNation99]

That's the whole point everyone is trying to make. They are saying that teens that pursue and have sex with adults should incur some form of punishment just as the adult would. If there is no form of punishment for the teens there is nothing to stop them from participating in the crime.

Peace and Practice

I guess it's too much to just ask or expect the adult to walk away. I can see everybody's point, but I just can't bring myself to equate a 13 year old with an adult.

 

[SUtrp96]

I guess it's too much to just ask or expect the adult to walk away. I can see everybody's point, but I just can't bring myself to equate a 13 year old with an adult.

What part are some of you missing?!?! We all agree (except southsuburbs) the guy SHOULD walk away!!!

If he don't HE is guilty.... "IF" the female knowingly and wantingly participated in this act she should be punished as WELL...

We been passed the part the older guy/women should walk away.

It would far less cases if the younger males/females feared punishment as well...


Shouldn't the law be in place to provoke "BOTH" PARTIES from participating in a so-called CRIME?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

 

[SleepyCrat]

I guess it's too much to just ask or expect the adult to walk away. I can see everybody's point, but I just can't bring myself to equate a 13 year old with an adult.

We know he should walk away. That's understood.

The point is that the other person who participated activeley in a crime should be punished also.

It's like punishing the drug dealer but not the user. The crime only stops when both choose to stop.

When you don't punish the teens in some form in cases like this they will continue to do it.

I'm willing to bet money that R Kels was not the last adult that girl had slept with before she was 18.

Peace and Practice

 

[JaguarNation99]

What part are some of you missing?!?! We all agree (except southsuburbs) the guy SHOULD walk away!!!

If he don't HE is guilty.... "IF" the female knowingly and wantingly participated in this act she should be punished as WELL...

We been passed the part the older guy/women should walk away.

It would far less cases if the younger males/females feared punishment as well...


Shouldn't the law be in place to provoke "BOTH" PARTIES from participating in a so-called CRIME?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

We aren't missing anything, just that if he walks away all of this discussion is moot. It's just an interesting position, one I don't ever recall being mentioned in any of the threads about female teachers having sex with those underage boys....

 

[SUtrp96]

We aren't missing anything, just that if he walks away all of this discussion is moot. It's just an interesting position, one I don't ever recall being mentioned in any of the threads about female teachers having sex with those underage boys....

Ok if he does walk away and she breaks in his house and sneaks in bed with him..... (that's extreme) but the point you are missing is.. girls that are going out willing doing this SHOULD be punish....

KIDS are more scared of punishment than adults... Which means if there is a law which punishes under age girls and boys who willingly participate in these acts it will be LESS consensual cases, then you can REALLY deal with the guys that are truly raping these young naive defenseless girls/boys..
It's not that hard to understand brah...:smh:

 

[JaguarNation99]

Ok if he does walk away and she breaks in his house and sneaks in bed with him..... (that's extreme) but the point you are missing is.. girls that are going out willing doing this SHOULD be punish....

KIDS are more scared of punishment than adults... Which means if there is a law which punishes under age girls and boys who willingly participate in these acts it will be LESS consensual cases, then you can REALLY deal with the guys that are truly raping these young naive defenseless girls/boys..
It's not that hard to understand brah...:smh:

It's far from complicated, that's never been the point. Sure that would be great in your perfect utopia scenario, but in the real world all you would really have is a whole lot more of these children (with the help of parents, and yes I know it already happens now) claiming they were actually raped after the fact, well unless you're going to be setting up sting operations to catch 13 year olds trying to get with older men. It does nothing to deal with the real root causes of why they're out there seeking older men.