Some thoughts aboout the R Kelly trial

[JagHammer]

I'm siding with Kendrick on this issue. R Kels is a rapist.

 

[Apaquelypse]

The purpose of the Court is to Administer Judgment not reformation. It is the responsibility of Parents and/or Guardians to discourage bad behavior.


To Punished a Serial Child Abuser!


Have we (as a community/race) lost our sense of morality? If this guy was white and/or the girls were white; the white community would have incarcerated this guy a long time ago. Do we not care as much for our own kids? Do we adhere to a lower standard?

This has no relation to a sense of morality.....No one on this thread said anything thing about what R Kelly did was ok. No one has said that.

As far as many of us are concerned, r kelly is as guilty as guilty gets - not for forcing himself upon a minor, but for going along with the foolishness

 

[Apaquelypse]

I'm siding with Kendrick on this issue. R Kels is a rapist.

By law he is a rapist. However the law was not intended to label him a rapist, espically based on this trial. He did have sex with a minor, and though the law says she is incapable to consent, I beleive she does have that capacity to think and I also beleive she did.


I think he should just go to jail for having sex with a minor, whether she said yes to it or not, and not because she was minor who he must have tricked, intimitaded, or bribed into having sex because she doesnt have the intellect to say yes.

 

[Kendrick]

Serious question:

Do you think this incident is a small percentage when comes to girls from 13-17 knowingly and wanting to sleep with someone older.. When I was in middle and high school.. Us guys would hear convos of girls saying what they want to do and would do with certain guy teachers... And some that did and was some GROWN women about it.. Fully knew what they done and what kind of trouble the teacher would be in if they ever felt evil enough to report it... I don't know what group of people you see on a day to day bases but a lot of them laws need to be re-evaluated and give some kind of punishment to even the kid involved in certain cases if we want to see a huge DROP in this crime.. After all laws are made to "Prevent" crime right?

I think it is a small percentage of teen girls sleeping with older men. Do not get me wrong, I know it happens, but not a lot as some might think.

I also would not doubt that teen girls and boys want to be with a famous male or female stars. I have and you have. It is normal. Having sex with them is not though.

As for changing the laws...I do not think it will be a good thing. Like I said we only know the girl was willing because it was on tape. The law has to protect kids where there is no video evidence.

If a law like that were to pass, then more sex offenders will get off(no pun). It will force the victim who was assaulted or abused prove that it really happened.

Nearly all victims are scared and ashamed to talk after going through something like that. It would give a creep a loop hole in the system. It would turn victims into the accused.

I just wrote a story today about a 30 year old man sexually assaulting a 17-year-old girl. He fingered her and he forced her to perform oral sex. Should she be punished? That is why the law has to stay like it is.

 

[Apaquelypse]

Statutory rape refers to a sexual act that is considered rape by the law regardless of whether it was coercive or consensual. Such laws are common and exist in order to prevent adults from having sex with minors who are deemed legally unable to give effective informed consent.

And who deems what is legally unable?

At one point in time, it was illegal for blacks to learn to read, it was illegal for blacks to date whites, hell, blacks were even considered 3/5 of a person and all that shat was legal. Then finally somebody had sense enough to basically say this needs to be re looked at because it doesnt make any sense any more.

I see pre teens and teens in jails all the time. How can you not be deemed legally capable of understanding ONLY in particular situations?

You are capable of understanding the effects of murder, loitering, assult and battery, sexual offenses, shop lifting, theft and drug dealing, but you dont have the sense enough to know that having sex with an adult is wrong?

I think all of us know what was intended when the law was written, but I think we have gotten away from its true intent and that is to protect innocent kids

 

[SUtrp96]

I think it is a small percentage of teen girls sleeping with older men. Do not get me wrong, I know it happens, but not a lot as some might think.

I also would not doubt that teen girls and boys want to be with a famous male or female stars. I have and you have. It is normal. Having sex with them is not though.

As for changing the laws...I do not think it will be a good thing. Like I said we only know the girl was willing because it was on tape. The law has to protect kids where there is no video evidence.

If a law like that were to pass, then more sex offenders will get off(no pun). It will force the victim who was assaulted or abused prove that it really happened.

Nearly all victims are scared and ashamed to talk after going through something like that. It would give a creep a loop hole in the system. It would turn victims into the accused.

I just wrote a story today about a 30 year old man sexually assaulting a 17-year-old girl. He fingered her and he forced her to perform oral sex. Should she be punished? That is why the law has to stay like it is.

Not at all, she was forced...

All I am saying is if it can be proven by tape or witnesses that a teen boy/girl knowingly had consentual sex with an adult something should be done to that teen boy/girl as well

 

[PVSAX99]

So...riddle me this:

Why does it sound like some of you are basically saying that it is okay for this then 13 year old girl to go around sleeping with older men because she is a teenager and doesn't know any better...then turn around and talk about us setting lower standards and whatnot?

EVERYBODY follows the same rules...right. And everybody knows that if the rules are broken, there will be consequences that follow...regardless of a person's age...right.

ex. An adult knows that robbing a bank will get you put in jail...because the law prohibits bank robbing. That law doesn't excuse a teenager from robbing a bank because they are young and don't know any better...right? This law is one that applies to everybody...young and old...men and women.

Now...

It is illegal for an adult to engage in sexual activity with a minor right? Knowing this, shouldn't it be EQUALLY illegal for a minor to engage in those same activities with an adult, due to the law that is already in place? And aren't sexual solicitation and prostitution (if unwarranted) also illegal across the board?

So, regardless of the offender(s) age(s), if you do the crime, you got to pay your consequences. The girl is just as guilty as Kelly is...there is no way you can deny that. If you can, then you can't say that AND talk about morality. You'll contradict yourself every time.

 

[Apaquelypse]

So...riddle me this:

Why does it sound like some of you are basically saying that it is okay for this then 13 year old girl to go around sleeping with older men because she is a teenager and doesn't know any better...then turn around and talk about us setting lower standards and whatnot?

EVERYBODY follows the same rules...right. And everybody knows that if the rules are broken, there will be consequences that follow...regardless of a person's age...right.

ex. An adult knows that robbing a bank will get you put in jail...because the law prohibits bank robbing. That law doesn't excuse a teenager from robbing a bank because they are young and don't know any better...right? This law is one that applies to everybody...young and old...men and women.

Now...

It is illegal for an adult to engage in sexual activity with a minor right? Knowing this, shouldn't it be EQUALLY illegal for a minor to engage in those same activities with an adult, due to the law that is already in place? And aren't sexual solicitation and prostitution (if unwarranted) also illegal across the board...right?

So, regardless of the offender(s) age(s), if you do the crime, you got to pay your consequences. The girl is just as guilty as Kelly is...there is no way you can deny that. If you can, then you can't say that AND talk about morality. You'll contradict yourself every time.

I dont know about equally illegal, because they are minors, I do concur however both parties are illegal

 

[Kendrick]

And who deems what is legally unable?

At one point in time, it was illegal for blacks to learn to read, it was illegal for blacks to date whites, hell, blacks were even considered 3/5 of a person and all that shat was legal. Then finally somebody had sense enough to basically say this needs to be re looked at because it doesnt make any sense any more.

I see pre teens and teens in jails all the time. How can you not be deemed legally capable of understanding ONLY in particular situations?

You are capable of understanding the effects of murder, loitering, assult and battery, sexual offenses, shop lifting, theft and drug dealing, but you dont have the sense enough to know that having sex with an adult is wrong?

I think all of us know what was intended when the law was written, but I think we have gotten away from its true intent and that is to protect innocent kids

You can not compare blacks being denied the fundamental right of being allow to read to teens having sex with adults. So are you saying thatit should be fine that 13-year-old and adults to hump each other as long as the parties agree?

I do not think so my friend. The law should not be changed to punish teens who have sex with adults or give adults a pass because the kid said yes.

There are way too many occassions where adults have taken advantage of kids, killed them and hurt them to change the law.

You ask how can kids not understand having sex, but committ crimes?

I ask you how can adults understand that it is wrong to kill, steal and harm, but can't control themselves from having sex with teens, considering that is against the law?

 

[PVSAX99]

You can not compare blacks being denied the fundamental right of being allow to read to teens having sex with adults. So are you saying thatit should be fine that 13-year-old and adults to hump each other as long as the parties agree?

I do not think so my friend. The law should not be changed to punish teens who have sex with adults or give adults a pass because the kid said yes.

There are way too many occassions where adults have taken advantage of kids, killed them and hurt them to change the law.

You ask how can kids not understand having sex, but committ crimes?

I ask you how can adults understand that it is wrong to kill, steal and harm, but can't control themselves from having sex with teens, considering that is against the law?

Nobody is saying that. Most people are saying that the girl just SHOULDN'T get off scott free BECAUSE OF THE FACT that she did something that is considered illegal. Kelly and that girl are BOTH guilty, and they both need to pay the consequences. According to that video, the girl will NOT be seen as a victim. She was not tricked or forced into having sex with the man...NOR did she say "no" during the act. Some of you are trying to insult this girl's intelligence. She knew exactly what she was doing.

By the way...is there even a minimum "age of consent " that is consistent across the board AND the nation? Isn't it 18 years of age?

 

[Apaquelypse]

You can not compare blacks being denied the fundamental right of being allow to read to teens having sex with adults. So are you saying thatit should be fine that 13-year-old and adults to hump each other as long as the parties agree?

I do not think so my friend. The law should not be changed to punish teens who have sex with adults or give adults a pass because the kid said yes.

There are way too many occassions where adults have taken advantage of kids, killed them and hurt them to change the law.

You ask how can kids not understand having sex, but committ crimes?

I ask you how can adults understand that it is wrong to kill, steal and harm, but can't control themselves from having sex with teens, considering that is against the law?

And again I say, the adults are still wrong. And from my posts that has never changed. What I'm also saying is that until we recognize that protection does not give these kids the all out "do what you wanna and aint nobody gonna do you anything mentality" then the law holds no merit.

If the law does not protect the innocent and punish the perp, then it should be revisited. Age, in no other aspect of the law that I can think of right now, proves innocence.

 

[PVSAX99]

And again I say, the adults are still wrong. And from my posts that has never changed. What I'm also saying is that until we recognize that protection does not give these kids the all out "do what you wanna and aint nobody gonna do you anything mentality" then the law holds no merit.

If the law does not protect the innocent and punish the perp, then it should be revisited. Age, in no other aspect of the law that I can think of right now, proves innocence.

Exactly!

 

[Apaquelypse]

Nobody is saying that. Most people are saying that the girl just SHOULDN'T get off scott free BECAUSE OF THE FACT that she did something that is considered illegal. Kelly and that girl are BOTH guilty, and they both need to pay the consequences. According to that video, the girl will NOT be seen as a victim. She was not tricked or forced into having sex with the man...NOR did she say "no" during the act. Some of you are trying to insult this girl's intelligence. She knew exactly what she was doing.

Somebody on here is gonna say that just because you dont fuss kick, curse, fight, and scream does not mean that you are not a victim. (So be careful)

 

[PVSAX99]

Somebody on here is gonna say that just because you dont fuss kick, curse, fight, and scream does not mean that you are not a victim. (So be careful)

~duly noted~

 

[Kendrick]

Somebody on here is gonna say that just because you dont fuss kick, curse, fight, and scream does not mean that you are not a victim. (So be careful)

I like this debate because people are bringing up stuff that many would never consider. I know a woman whose daughter was raped. I'm going to bounce this question of should the kid be punished for having sex with an adult if the kid give consent off her and see what she thinks.

 

[Apaquelypse]

I like this debate because people are bringing up stuff that many would never consider. I know a woman whose daughter was raped. I'm going to bounce this question of should the kid be punished for having sex with an adult if the kid give consent off her and see what she thinks.

Ken, dont spin this in that direction. Many parents only see their children as being innocent when it comes to sex. Now If the womans daughter was really raped, then we all know she should not be punished/disiplined.

But regardless of what she says, when children behave as adults, they get dealt with in some form or fashion.

 

[Kendrick]

Ken, dont spin this in that direction. Many parents only see their children as being innocent when it comes to sex. Now If the womans daughter was really raped, then we all know she should not be punished/disiplined.

But regardless of what she says, when children behave as adults, they get dealt with in some form or fashion.

Oh, this woman's daughter was really raped. She was raped by a male who was watching her. He said that she wanted it. It was a horrible story.

Teenage girls just do not wake up one day and think it is fine to go after older men. And adults just do not wake up one day and feel like it is fine to sleep with teens. That is the issue that needs to be examined. Because none of us can understand why teens and adults think it is acceptable behavior.

 

[illinijag]

This has no relation to a sense of morality.....No one on this thread said anything thing about what R Kelly did was ok. No one has said that.

A Guy that has a history of taking advantage of underage girls (Aaliyah to the current collection of abused girl), is Immoral. When we continue to support him via buying his music and being in his videos (usher & others), we are facilitating his efforts. If we do so, We have no sense of morality.

 

[Apaquelypse]

A Guy that has a history of taking advantage of underage girls (Aaliyah to the current collection of abused girl), is Immoral. When we continue to support him via buying his music and being in his videos (usher & others), we are facilitating his efforts. If we do so, We have no sense of morality.

So we are immoral because we like his music? Does that make us more morally correct if we don't like his music?

 

[Kendrick]

So we are immoral because we like his music? Does that make us more morally correct if we don't like his music?

I don't think you are anyone is immoral for listening to Kelly's music. I used to listen to it, but I don't now because of what I saw on the tape. But that is just me.

 

[SUtrp96]

Oh, this woman's daughter was really raped. She was raped by a male who was watching her. He said that she wanted it. It was a horrible story.

Teenage girls just do not wake up one day and think it is fine to go after older men. And adults just do not wake up one day and feel like it is fine to sleep with teens. That is the issue that needs to be examined. Because none of us can understand why teens and adults think it is acceptable behavior.

You are right teen girls and boys don't wake up wanting to have sex with someone older... they just get to a point called puberty where they want it with whom ever they feel is attractive to them.... That's the same as a kid not waking up wanting to sell dope... That takes time and not MUCH time at all... All along they know they can get killed messing with the drug game go to jail.. just a teen girls and guys know they can contract STDS or get pregnant and they KNOW the consiquence of having sex with an older person.. Trust they know...

This does not pertain to females having sex against their will nor females under age being taken advantage of... I am talking about the females that KNOWS all about sex.. what positions they like WHO they want it from ...sneaking into clubs with fake IDs making porno videos/pictures and sending them to whom ever they want no matter the age just as long as they like them....These girls know what they are doing and they should be punish when something like this goes down...

I only say that because, if these girls thought for a second they could possibly be punished as well it would lessen the chances of a guy saying "She came at me and didn't tell me her age"..... Even though the guy would still be wrong, I believe it would be less cases, which should be the goal if we really care about our young girls and boys....

 

[Kendrick]

You are right teen girls and boys don't wake up wanting to have sex with someone older... they just get to a point called puberty where they want it with whom ever they feel is attractive to them.... That's the same as a kid not waking up wanting to sell dope... That takes time and not MUCH time at all... All along they know they can get killed messing with the drug game go to jail.. just a teen girls and guys know they can contract STDS or get pregnant and they KNOW the consiquence of having sex with an older person.. Trust they know...

This does not pertain to females having sex against their will nor females under age being taken advantage of... I am talking about the females that KNOWS all about sex.. what positions they like WHO they want it from ...sneaking into clubs with fake IDs making porno videos/pictures and sending them to whom ever they want no matter the age just as long as they like them....These girls know what they are doing and they should be punish when something like this goes down...

I only say that because, if these girls thought for a second they could possibly be punished as well it would lessen the chances of a guy saying "She came at me and didn't tell me her age"..... Even though the guy would still be wrong, I believe it would be less cases, which should be the goal if we really care about our young girls and boys....

So what punishment would you levy on young girls who prey on older men?

 

[southsuburbs]

So what punishment would you levy on young girls who prey on older men?

If it's proven the girls "preyed" on the older men or wanted to have sex with the older man...then no punishment to either one.

It is what it is.

That's what we've...well I've been saying.

Why punish one if BOTH agreed to it and wanted it?

Will she regret it in the future? Maybe so, maybe not. Shucks there are GROWN women that regret having sex with men after the fact. So the fact that she's younger and she doesn't know what she's doing, but the man (older person) knows what they are doing....really doesn't fly with me.

 

[SUtrp96]

So what punishment would you levy on young girls who prey on older men?

Well I feel if the guy would have to face time, the female should at least have to face juvenile time.

I kind of agree with SS... If you not going to punish both don't punish neither.. But I think both should be punished, maybe the parents will start paying closer attention to their kids...

 

[Kendrick]

If it's proven the girls "preyed" on the older men or wanted to have sex with the older man...then no punishment to either one.

It is what it is.

That's what we've...well I've been saying.

Why punish one if BOTH agreed to it and wanted it?

Will she regret it in the future? Maybe so, maybe not. Shucks there are GROWN women that regret having sex with men after the fact. So the fact that she's younger and she doesn't know what she's doing, but the man (older person) knows what they are doing....really doesn't fly with me.

I still don't think it is right for a 30-year-old man/woman to have sex with a teenager even if the teen says it is fine. What if that teen girl becomes pregnant or a teen boy impregnates a woman? Is that cool?

It is creepy to me that adults have to turn to teens and pre-teens for sex. I seriously doubt that adults. I find it hard to believe that adults will just let a teenager make them believe it is OK to have sex with them--especially if that adult has children.

It's wrong in like 95 different ways.

I think teens should only be punished if they lie about being raped.