Rev. T.D. Jakes (Revisited)

[nevaehinvesting]

I don't think that is what Dr. Sweet NUPE meant. I also don't understand the logic behind one church giving 10% of its own funds to the Potter House.

It's hard to comment on that logic knowing that this derived from Gossip; or what Dr. Sweet Nupe Heard. When folks start off a conversation with, "I Heard..." it's usually not the whole truth.

Anyways Killer Bees, once Dr. Sweet Nupe gives a list of the churches or even the name of one church that does that, simply contact that church and ask them personally why they do they do what they do; IF you really want to know. Then let us know too. Simple, no confusion. :tup:

 

[Dr H..]

Fort,

You are suppose to give 10% of the gross. In other words, if the publisher advance you 500K, according to the scriptures you owe God not the Church, not the Church but God 5K plus. Believe it or not when we receive our income tax refund or bonus 10% belong to God.

=====
The problem is ?people? say this is mine, well I beg to differ. Everything belong to God, including the air we breath. The reason people are always lacking is because they are poor stewards with what God blessed them with.

Does people have a right to prosper, of course He does, it is not in the will of God for anyone to suffer. However we do, because of the decisions we make.

This entire country has gone prosperity / money crazy, especially those that are suppose to be ?men of God.? They have left the word of God to fill their bellies of greed. Their message should be about saving souls instead it?s about ?pray for prosperity and receive it, because God wants to give it to you! If you don't receive it, you didn't ask with enough faith. So you make the widow feel bad, and then you say, ?Maybe you are not giving the Lord enough? so she start giving her rent and welfare check and still she is in the same boat. God Forbid.

What is prosperity? It is more than money. Prosperity may mean wealth, or power, or popularity, or sex, or children, or finding a mate, or a new BMW. Ask and you shall receive! That?s why people are spiritually dead, yet they are walking around dead thinking they are alive.

It?s easy to understand why many so-called ?Christians? are addicted to this theology; it is also easy to see how ?Prosperity Theology? has gotten out of hand and compromise biblical teaching

"Name It and Claim It". Doesn't God want us to be happy and prosperous? According to the Scripture, He does: (Jeremiah 29:11), but do not take it to the extreme. A majority of the ?Prosperity? scriptures means something other than worldly prosperity.

There are poor people who are faithful. And you can't easily reject that by saying, well, they probably didn't ask for more than what they needed. Without a doubt, Christian poor people have asked in faith for prosperity, and they have not received.

The biggest problem I have with prosperity theology is that most people I know who ask God for prosperity are already prosperous. They live in the United States. If they are considered poor, they are still prosperous. And, they want more, and more and more! And, they wonder why God doesn't give them more. They question themselves for not having enough faith to ask God for something, yet God is blessing them far more than they realize.
The main problem with prosperity theology is this. It's not that God doesn't want us to be prosperous. It's that God doesn't want us to make prosperity a priority. It certainly isn't His priority. It wasn't Jesus' priority. This theology is, by teaching, makes prosperity a priority.

Crit
I have never turned my back on those that need assistance.

 

[nevaehinvesting]

You are suppose to give 10% of the gross. In other words, if the publisher advance you 500K, according to the scriptures you owe God not the Church, not the Church but God 5K plus. Believe it or not when we receive our income tax refund or bonus 10% belong to God.

I'm sure you meant if you get 500K you owe 50K+. IMO when you get paid, if you tithe out of you Gross income, you don't have to tithe out of your income tax check. If you tithe out of your net income, you do have to tithe from your income tax check. That's just how I do it; I could be wrong.

However, if you make 500K, & tithe 50K, the other 450K is yours to save, invest, buy a million dollar home, a 100K Benz or whatever YOU want as long as it's not outside of God's Will. My pastor has the #1 best seller book for New York Times right now. I'm sure he's getting paid well. Question, can he move out of his apartment into a really nice house? Can he pay off his car, OR even buy a new one? Does that make him greedy? Do wealthly pastors all steal tithe money from the church?

The main problem with prosperity theology is this....

Stop!!! You don't have a problem prosperity theology or prospering, it's biblical & it's why you go to work everyday. What you have a problem with is Greedy people who make money and worldly possessions their God. The other thing you seem to have a problem with is judging people's hearts that you have never met. I mean, you, a preacher, actually said this....

I wonder how much has Jakes, Dollar, Olsten and others have shared with other. After all, more than likely they are using the church resources to fulfill their lust, greed and bank accounts.

How in the world do you know that? Drop those stones and just walk away. :smh:

 

[Dr H..]

neva-

Prosperity Theology, within itself is not bad and bibical, also notice I continued to use the word "greed". There is something wrong when all your sermons is on getting more and more and more. That's why Jesus taught several parables concerning focusing you heart on money and wealth.

Read these scriptures, this is what I am talking about.

And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods. Luke 12:12 - 21


Lazarus and the Rich Man

 

[CriTAUcal]

Crit
I have never turned my back on those that need assistance.

And people like Jakes do? I guess Jakes is suppose to go into the poor house to fix the problems in this world... since he's wealthy and all. Is that something you would do? Or do you do what you can, which is probably what these ministers do, too.
I know you see all the money they make and how phat their houses are and everything, but do you (for yourself) know how they give back?
And every famous preacher out there doesn't focus on prosperity. The many messages I've heard from folks like Jakes tend to talk about real life issues, walking closer to God and being delivered, which is what our souls need TODAY to make it to another day!
Have you not taken the time to listen to them yourself or would you just rather assume all of them are about money, since they are already rich????
Man, please! :lol:

 

[Fortitude]

Very Good, Roi! :tup:

 

[Dr H..]

Not to start an argument, however I have listen to Jake and practically all the other TV Evangelists. As I initially said ?So when do you separate need for greed.? When is enough is enough? Jakes and other more than likely have more money and assets than they could spend in two life times. However, they tend to want more and more and more. I do not care how you mix it of slice it, it?s ? greed?

I know several preachers that do not ?focus? on prosperity, and they are living well. I am living well and do not preach on prosperity. After preaching a sermon, I traditionally tell the congregation, ?hang in there, God?s love you despite of your trials and tribulations, live right and obey God and he will bless you?

nev

It may appear that I judge peoples heart by some of my comments. However, this is not true, my moments are based on biblical teaching.

The problem is that a majority of people does not understand the seriousness or in-depthness of Gods word. Whenever God leave us an illustration on greed and other topics, it?s not there as a short story, but prevent us from falling into the same trap as those of the first century. However, because of our ?stiffness of our necks? we tend to over look the lessons and fall into the same trap of greed.

The story of Lazarus and the rich man - was there anything with the man having riches, absolutely not. The problem God had with him is that he put his riches above need of his brother and above what the Jews Law and God teaches. Does this apply to us today, absolutely ? he went to hell for his actions, will we go to hell for the same attitude as the rich man, absolutely.

The story I pointed out earlier, the rich man and his barns. Was there anything wrong with his wealth, absolutely not? When the entire story is read, notice the I?s and My?s. Notice what God had already blessed him with material wealth. However this was not enough, he wanted more and more and more, in similitude as people today. Based on his attitude and behavior, he displayed ?GREED? and thought everything that he had belonged to himself and not God. However, God ended his life ......... There comes a point where God says "Enough is enough"

First John 2:16 pretty well sum it up.

"For all that [is] in the world, the lust of the flesh , and the lust of the eyes , and the pride of life ], is not of the Father, but is of the world."

 

[SLT]

Not to start an argument, however I have listen to Jake and practically all the other TV Evangelists. As I initially said ?So when do you separate need for greed.? When is enough is enough? Jakes and other more than likely have more money and assets than they could spend in two life times. However, they tend to want more and more and more. I do not care how you mix it of slice it, it?s ? greed?

I know several preachers that do not ?focus? on prosperity, and they are living well. I am living well and do not preach on prosperity. After preaching a sermon, I traditionally tell the congregation, ?hang in there, God?s love you despite of your trials and tribulations, live right and obey God and he will bless you?

nev

It may appear that I judge peoples heart by some of my comments. However, this is not true, my moments are based on biblical teaching.

The problem is that a majority of people does not understand the seriousness or in-depth ness of Gods word. Whenever God leave us an illustration on greed and other topics, it?s not there as a short story but prevent us from falling into the same trap as those of the first century Christians. However, because of our ?stiffness of our necks? we tend to over look the lessons.

The story of Lazarus and the rich man was there anything with the man having riches, absolutely not. The problem God had with his is that he put his riches above need of his brother and above what the Jews Law teaches. Does this apply to us today, absolutely ? he went to hell for his actions, will we go to hell for the same attitude as the rich man, absolutely.

The story I pointed out earlier, the rich man and his barns. Was there anything wrong with his wealth, absolutely not? I the entire story is read, notice the I?s and My?s. Notice what God had already blessed him with. However this was not enough, he wanted more and more and more. And based on his attitude and behavior, he displayed ?GREED? and thought everything that he had belonged to himself and not God.

First John 2:16 pretty well sum it up.

"For all that [is] in the world, the lust of the flesh , and the lust of the eyes , and the pride of life ], is not of the Father, but is of the world."

What did I tell you about this? :upset:

 

[CriTAUcal]

Not to start an argument, however I have listen to Jake and practically all the other TV Evangelists. As I initially said ?So when do you separate need for greed.? When is enough is enough? Jakes and other more than likely have more money and assets than they could spend in two life times. However, they tend to want more and more and more. I do not care how you mix it of slice it, it?s ? greed?

I know several preachers that do not ?focus? on prosperity, and they are living well. I am living well and do not preach on prosperity. After preaching a sermon, I traditionally tell the congregation, ?hang in there, God?s love you despite of your trials and tribulations, live right and obey God and he will bless you?

nev

It may appear that I judge peoples heart by some of my comments. However, this is not true, my moments are based on biblical teaching.

The problem is that a majority of people does not understand the seriousness or in-depth ness of Gods word. Whenever God leave us an illustration on greed and other topics, it?s not there as a short story but prevent us from falling into the same trap as those of the first century Christians. However, because of our ?stiffness of our necks? we tend to over look the lessons.

The story of Lazarus and the rich man was there anything with the man having riches, absolutely not. The problem God had with his is that he put his riches above need of his brother and above what the Jews Law teaches. Does this apply to us today, absolutely ? he went to hell for his actions, will we go to hell for the same attitude as the rich man, absolutely.

The story I pointed out earlier, the rich man and his barns. Was there anything wrong with his wealth, absolutely not? I the entire story is read, notice the I?s and My?s. Notice what God had already blessed him with. However this was not enough, he wanted more and more and more. And based on his attitude and behavior, he displayed ?GREED? and thought everything that he had belonged to himself and not God.

First John 2:16 pretty well sum it up.

"For all that [is] in the world, the lust of the flesh , and the lust of the eyes , and the pride of life ], is not of the Father, but is of the world."

How do you know they want more? How do you know their motives? It is because these ministers are always coming up with new books, more teachings you can purchase on DVDs, audios, etc.? Is because people pour money into their ministries? Is it because their ministries are on an upward spiral and the numbers for membership continue to grow?

No disrespect, but you're saying a whole of something, but I'm still not following your reasonings.
So, please, tell me how do YOU equate their success with greed?

 

[Dr H..]

No disrespect, but you're saying a whole of something, but I'm still not following your reasonings.

Study the bible and the illustrations God gave us and the message will become clear.

 

[CriTAUcal]

No disrespect, but you're saying a whole of something, but I'm still not following your reasonings.

Study the bible and the illustrations God gave us and the message will become clear.

So, you can't answer the question, huh?

 

[jaydog]

So, you can't answer the question, huh?

That's what I gather too.

My personal favorite verse is Matthew 7:1

"Judge not, lest ye be judged."

Seems to be a whole lot of clueless labeling & judging going on.

 

[docmump]

That's what I gather too.

My personal favorite verse is Matthew 7:1

"Judge not, lest ye be judged."

Seems to be a whole lot of clueless labeling & judging going on.

It's your personal favorite verse but what does it means? Does it mean you should not judge or does it mean "IF you judge, someone has the right to judge you?"

 

[SLT]

:shame:

 

[Fortitude]

Not to start an argument, however I have listen to Jake and practically all the other TV Evangelists. As I initially said ?So when do you separate need for greed.? When is enough is enough? Jakes and other more than likely have more money and assets than they could spend in two life times. However, they tend to want more and more and more. I do not care how you mix it of slice it, it?s ? greed?

I know several preachers that do not ?focus? on prosperity, and they are living well. I am living well and do not preach on prosperity. After preaching a sermon, I traditionally tell the congregation, ?hang in there, God?s love you despite of your trials and tribulations, live right and obey God and he will bless you?

Seems to me that you believe in the God of "just enough" & I don't. God says in Mal. 3:10 Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this," says the LORD Almighty, "and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it. Look at Soloman in ALL of his splendor. God has the cattle on a thousand hillside; He owns everything. Did He not say 3John 1:2 - Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth. All that said, should these men stop writing books even if God is STILL inspiring them to put pen to paper? Even as Paul faced CERTAIN death he was still writing & encouraging & writing & admonishing. Who are we to put a limit on God's working power in us? Who's to say you've done enough? You've made enough money etc. The word clearly says, Deuteronomy 8:18 - But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for it is He that giveth thee power to get wealth. Have we not read: Proverbs 13:22 ...and the wealth of the sinner is laid up for the just. God has many ways to bless us & because He's omnipotent - there is no limit to what He can do in ANYBODY'S life.

Also, I believe in Crit's earlier question, the premise of the question was Have you sold ALL you have for the advancement of God's kingdom? And are you living a meager existence for the Gospel's sake?

 

[Dr H..]

"So, you can't answer the question, huh?"

I have answered you question, "read and study God's illustrations" Now if you do not understand the bible, I will be more than happy to do a bible study on the subject of greed.

If the bible say do not steal, and the person is a thief, that person can make an attempt to justify their actions. However, that does not negate what the bible teach.

 

[JSTUS]

Rev. Jakes preached an awesome sermon on T.V. yesterday about how DEMONS stick together and how CHRISTIANS are divided.He also spoke on FAMILY CURSES. I didn't see the ending of the sermon. I would like a copy.

:jump: I saw it also. AWESOME. I watch him every M-F at 6am after my meditation time as I dress for work. Paula White comes on after him. I only catch a few minutes of her. She's awesome, also.

 

[SLT]

:jump: I saw it also. AWESOME. I watch him every M-F at 6am after my meditation time as I dress for work. Paula White comes on after him. I only catch a few minutes of her. She's awesome, also.

Thank you sooooooooo much JSTUS!

 

[docmump]

:shame:

What?

 

[CriTAUcal]

"So, you can't answer the question, huh?"

I have answered you question, "read and study God's illustrations" Now if you do not understand the bible, I will be more than happy to do a bible study on the subject of greed.

Actually, you didn't answer the question.
I asked how did YOU equate their success with greed?
I didn't ask "What Thus Said The Lord."

And I do Bible Study at my own church weekly, where I get fed real nice the Word of God. :tup:

 

[CriTAUcal]

What?

She's probably doing it because we have different views of Jakes and other similar preachers. Opposition.

 

[Fortitude]

Dr. H didn't answer my questions either. :cry:

 

[CriTAUcal]

Seems to me that you believe in the God of "just enough" & I don't. God says in Mal. 3:10 Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this," says the LORD Almighty, "and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it. Look at Soloman in ALL of his splendor. God has the cattle on a thousand hillside; He owns everything. Did He not say 3John 1:2 - Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth. All that said, should these men stop writing books even if God is STILL inspiring them to put pen to paper? Even as Paul faced CERTAIN death he was still writing & encouraging & writing & admonishing. Who are we to put a limit on God's working power in us? Who's to say you've done enough? You've made enough money etc. The word clearly says, Deuteronomy 8:18 - But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for it is He that giveth thee power to get wealth. Have we not read: Proverbs 13:22 ...and the wealth of the sinner is laid up for the just. God has many ways to bless us & because He's omnipotent - there is no limit to what He can do in ANYBODY'S life.

Also, I believe in Crit's earlier question, the premise of the question was Have you sold ALL you have for the advancement of God's kingdom? And are you living a meager existence for the Gospel's sake?

AMEN!!!

 

[Dr H..]

Ok!

Then biblically explain the story of Lazarus and the Rich Man and the story about the wealth farmer and his barns.

 

[SLT]

She's probably doing it because we have different views of Jakes and other similar preachers. Opposition.

More of the premise of the thread has shifted.

It wasn't directed to you docmump or anybody in particular.