Playoffs -- Round Two

[Mr. Tiger]

I mentioned this in the other thread but that thread took a horrible turn into the usual smack talk, so I will try again. Round 2. Let's keep it clean. I discovered this during my research of our playoff history.....

We lost the automatic bid in 1986 because we didn't have enough teams to qualify for the bid when Grambling and Southern decided to keep their current date. FCS conferences must have 8 eligible teams to seek an automatic bid. The bids that JSU and others received after 1986 were at-large. If we add 1 member we would have eight, then we could drop the SCG. Grambling, Southern, and Alabama State could keep their current dates. And I have NO doubt we would get that automatic bid if we wanted it with the playoffs expanding soon. I think the playoff issue will continue to come up each year, on this page and with some coaches, until the problem is solved. This is the best solution. There is only one problem. Who could we invite?

 

[TexasTerror]

Even if you announced Tuskegee or another sub-Div I school tomorrow, you would still have to wait a few more years, if I am not mistaken. I believe a school must have finished their transition to count towards the amount of teams needed.

I know in hoops, you have to have several criteria met towards the "makeup" of your league and NCAA "core" members.

 

[Mr. Tiger]

Even if you announced Tuskegee or another sub-Div I school tomorrow, you would still have to wait a few more years, if I am not mistaken. I believe a school must have finished their transition to count towards the amount of teams needed.

I know in hoops, you have to have several criteria met towards the "makeup" of your league and NCAA "core" members.

That's right. But Tuskegee wouldn't help because they play Alabama State. I actually wouldn't mind waiting. Time will allow schools to beef up their non-conference schedules to add more FCS opponents. I also would make a strong run at Tennessee State or FAMU. Couldn't hurt.

 

[Tigerpride]

I mentioned this in the other thread but that thread took a horrible turn into the usual smack talk, so I will try again. Round 2. Let's keep it clean. I discovered this during my research of our playoff history.....

We lost the automatic bid in 1986 because we didn't have enough teams to qualify for the bid when Grambling and Southern decided to keep their current date. FCS conferences must have 8 eligible teams to seek an automatic bid. The bids that JSU and others received after 1986 were at-large. If we add 1 member we would have eight, then we could drop the SCG. Grambling, Southern, and Alabama State could keep their current dates. And I have NO doubt we would get that automatic bid if we wanted it with the playoffs expanding soon. I think the playoff issue will continue to come up each year, on this page and with some coaches, until the problem is solved. This is the best solution. There is only one problem. Who could we invite?

This is not totally true. We did lose our automatic bid but 8 playoff eligible teams won't get that bid back. You need ALL teams in the conference to be eligible on the date that the playoff begins for a conference to get an automatic bid. Actually, I think you only need 6 teams in your conference to get an automatic bid but that rule could have changed to 8. I know you need a minimum of 8 members to form a 1-A conference.

Even if we added another team, the conferece could not get an automatic bid to the playoffs because all teams are not available on the day the playoffs begin. The automatic bid goes to the champion so you can't get an automatic bid unless you are certain that your champion will be available. We can't guarantee that with 3 teams playing that same week.

 

[Lewis]

I mentioned this in the other thread but that thread took a horrible turn into the usual smack talk, so I will try again. Round 2. Let's keep it clean. I discovered this during my research of our playoff history.....

We lost the automatic bid in 1986 because we didn't have enough teams to qualify for the bid when Grambling and Southern decided to keep their current date. FCS conferences must have 8 eligible teams to seek an automatic bid. The bids that JSU and others received after 1986 were at-large. If we add 1 member we would have eight, then we could drop the SCG. Grambling, Southern, and Alabama State could keep their current dates. And I have NO doubt we would get that automatic bid if we wanted it with the playoffs expanding soon. I think the playoff issue will continue to come up each year, on this page and with some coaches, until the problem is solved. This is the best solution. There is only one problem. Who could we invite?

Not quite. All 10 schools play for the right to play in the SCG, any alternate solution will have to include some way for all 10 schools to participate in the post season in some form or fashion or you can forget it. Particularly when it is some of your marquee schools.

 

[TexasTerror]

Even if we added another team, the conferece could not get an automatic bid to the playoffs because all teams are not available on the day the playoffs begin. The automatic bid goes to the champion so you can't get an automatic bid unless you are certain that your champion will be available. We can't guarantee that with 3 teams playing that same week.

I believe you are correct...

That is why UCA could not be declared SLC champion. We are contracted by virtue of having an NCAA automatic bid, that we will send our champ. If we declared UCA champ, we would have lost our auto-bid.

Playoff discussion can now cease until the Thanksgiving weekend schools move their games or the playoffs pushes back. Both, doubtful.

 

[SU Jag 79]

That's right. But Tuskegee wouldn't help because they play Alabama State. I actually wouldn't mind waiting. Time will allow schools to beef up their non-conference schedules to add more FCS opponents. I also would make a strong run at Tennessee State or FAMU. Couldn't hurt.

WE had opportunities to BEEF up our non-conference schedules. What makes you think WE would do it now?

The same four or five teams did this in the late 80's and 90's and consequently, they were the ones throwing their weigh around when it came to the SWAC Championship. Until you get all ten schools centered around that mission (or in this case, I guess it would be seven or nine), I don't see why the playoff selection committee would even think about a bid for the SWAC.

 

[number1]

I think everyone needs to accept the fact that the SWAC is not going to participate in the playoffs unless the NCAA decides to move the 1st round to a later date. Southern and Grambling are not going to move the Bayou Classic. I am 100% certain that both schools would leave the SWAC before moving that game.

Do we really think it is that important to send our teams to the playoffs to get embarrassed by the #1 team with no national exposure, and a possible loss in revenue? I like the idea of the Heritage Bowl or a Black BCS National Title Game. As long as our fans continue to attend our games and make money, do we really care what the other schools think?

 

[emptyright]

Well here we go again. Lets understand a few things. if Im not mistaken in 1984 when The Satellite Express went to the Playoffs against la tech, im not sure if they were swac champs that year. I think they were an at large bid. Same thing with Air McNair in 1994. I think the braves were at large bids as well. both of those teams have one thing in common. They both had players that everyone wanted to see. Totten, Rice, McNair and company. people wanted to see what the fuss was all about. We keep complaining about our Auto Bid and a few things need to happen for that to become a reality.

A) Bayou has to Change Dates.
B) Get Rid of Swac title game
C) Turkey Day Classic has to move
D) FCS Playoffs could start first week of december.

A & C are not going to happen....
B needs to happen
D could happen very soon anyway

The swac has to have a product that people will want to see and that way u can have a team or two maybe get an at large bid.
What could really happen in the next two years is this. Get rid Of SWAC title Game, declare the regular season champ. And the FCS playoffs start the week after thanksgiving. the SWAC gets its Auto-Bid and no games have to change.

 

[JROCK]

The swac has to have a product that people will want to see and that way u can have a team or two maybe get an at large bid.
What could really happen in the next two years is this. Get rid Of SWAC title Game, declare the regular season champ. And the FCS playoffs start the week after thanksgiving. the SWAC gets its Auto-Bid and no games have to change.

As a conference, based on attendance numbers, the SWAC has the best product that people want to see on the FCS level. The SWAC have a larger market share than any other FCS conference in the country. This is a apparent by winning 28 out of 29 FCS/I-AA attendance titles. Further, the SWAC has probably the top national tv deal in (along with the meac) the country among FCS conferences.

It seems to me that the FCS needs its highest profile conference more than the other way around. :lol: :emlaugh:

 

[CATMENDUE2]

The horse is dead don't beat him, bury him. Forget the playoffs. Its not a playoff anywho its a regional A-10 invitational tournament.

 

[C-LeB28]

I think some of y'all forgot about good ole Texas Southern and Pine Bluff...

11/28/2009 1:00 p.m. Arkansas Pine-Bluff Dallas, TX
12/5/2009 1:00 p.m. Southern University Houston, TX

Seriously, I don't see this game going any further past this upcoming season.

 

[players]

I think some of y'all forgot about good ole Texas Southern and Pine Bluff...



Seriously, I don't see this game going any further past this upcoming season.

I didn't.
Give it 3 years.
Every team in the SWAC will be playing on or after Thanksgiving weekend.:nod:
We half way there now.

GRAM, SOUTHERN, UAPB, Bamma State, Texas Southern

 

[MightyDog]

I think everyone needs to accept the fact that the SWAC is not going to participate in the playoffs unless the NCAA decides to move the 1st round to a later date. Southern and Grambling are not going to move the Bayou Classic. I am 100% certain that both schools would leave the SWAC before moving that game.

Do we really think it is that important to send our teams to the playoffs to get embarrassed by the #1 team with no national exposure, and a possible loss in revenue? I like the idea of the Heritage Bowl or a Black BCS National Title Game. As long as our fans continue to attend our games and make money, do we really care what the other schools think?

You are right and I support the TDC and the BC. There is no reason to move these games. I do not see how anyone can suggest giving up these two games. Nobody gave up anything when the NCAA went to the BCS.

 

[MikeBigg]

You are right and I support the TDC and the BC. There is no reason to move these games. I do not see how anyone can suggest giving up these two games. Nobody gave up anything when the NCAA went to the BCS.

Simple as that... Thanks MD!!!!

 

[GRAM4LIFE]

You are right and I support the TDC and the BC. There is no reason to move these games. I do not see how anyone can suggest giving up these two games. Nobody gave up anything when the NCAA went to the BCS.

:lecture:

 

[JayRob]

I honestly can't blame SU and Grambling for not giving up a million dollar pay day and national coverage on NBC (eventhough they have to give up a million to do it:emlaugh, simply to play in a playoff game, a game that generates zero dollars. That would be economic suicide for both schools who are already struggling to keep current athletic programs afloat.

I can't blame Bama State either, for the same economic reasons.

 

[JR]

You are right and I support the TDC and the BC. There is no reason to move these games. I do not see how anyone can suggest giving up these two games. Nobody gave up anything when the NCAA went to the BCS.

You shole is right MD. The same reason(MONEY) the big schools Presidents and ADs do not want a playoffs at the 1A level. Those Bowl Games are their versions of the BC and TDC. Just on a grander scale.

 

[CEE DOG]

I am willing to bet you a miilion bucks, that if Appalachian St (sp) could get the Bayou Classic game on NBC and play in sold out crowds like SU they would give up the playoffs.

 

[Mr. Tiger]

Actually, after looking at the NCAA bylaws. Only the SCG is stopping us from applying for an automatic bid. They revised the rules in 2006 allowing conferences to have 6 eligible teams not 8. There is NOTHING in the bylaws about your champion being available. Here are the bylaws below.

http://www.ncaapublications.com/

18.5 AUTOMATIC QUALIFICATION BY CONFERENCE
18.5.1 Division Championship. To be eligible for automatic qualification into any Division I championship,
a conference shall: (Revised: 1/9/06 effective 8/1/06)
(a) Have at least six member institutions classified in Division I in the sport in which automatic qualification is sought; and
(b) Meet all requirements for conference automatic qualification into any division championship as set forth in 31.3.4.2

31.3.4.2 To be eligible for automatic qualification in National Collegiate Championship, a member conference must meet the following general requirements:
(Adopted: 1/9/06 effective 8/1/06)
(a) Have at least six active members that sponsor the applicable sport in any division (note: a provisional member in the process of becoming an NCAA member cannot be used to meet the requisite number);
(b) The six active members must have conducted conference competition together for the preceding two years in the applicable sport;
(c) There shall be no waivers of the two-year waiting period; and
(d) Any new member added to a conference that is eligible for an automatic bid shall be immediately eligible to represent the conference as the automatic qualifer.

 

[GRAM4LIFE]

By reading that, we should cancel the SCG and declar our automatic qualifier be the highest ranking SWAC team whose season is completed on the weekend before the playoffs. Simple...

Now, we must get the automatic bid. Call the NCAA and present our case.

 

[Tigerpride]

Actually, after looking at the NCAA bylaws. Only the SCG is stopping us from applying for an automatic bid. They revised the rules in 2006 allowing conferences to have 6 eligible teams not 8. There is NOTHING in the bylaws about your champion being available. Here are the bylaws below.

http://www.ncaapublications.com/

18.5 AUTOMATIC QUALIFICATION BY CONFERENCE
18.5.1 Division Championship. To be eligible for automatic qualification into any Division I championship,
a conference shall: (Revised: 1/9/06 effective 8/1/06)
(a) Have at least six member institutions classified in Division I in the sport in which automatic qualification is sought; and
(b) Meet all requirements for conference automatic qualification into any division championship as set forth in 31.3.4.2

31.3.4.2 To be eligible for automatic qualification in National Collegiate Championship, a member conference must meet the following general requirements:
(Adopted: 1/9/06 effective 8/1/06)
(a) Have at least six active members that sponsor the applicable sport in any division (note: a provisional member in the process of becoming an NCAA member cannot be used to meet the requisite number);
(b) The six active members must have conducted conference competition together for the preceding two years in the applicable sport;
(c) There shall be no waivers of the two-year waiting period; and
(d) Any new member added to a conference that is eligible for an automatic bid shall be immediately eligible to represent the conference as the automatic qualifer.

You may need to go back to read some other sections. In fact, I don't think it was ever 8 teams. I think leagues have always only needed 6 to qualify but there is more language out there, obviously. You CANNOT get an automatic bid for the playoffs unless EVERY member of the conference is available on the date the playoffs begin. They are not going to give the SWAC an automatic bid the playoff when Grambling could fininsh first, SU second, Alabama State third....who will get the automatic bid? Our 4th place team? That is why James Frank said during the first CCC that it was no big deal when the BC was moved. SU and Gram gave up their right to be in the playoffs and that was their choice. The rest of the teams (except AlaState) still had the option to go.

 

[Tigerpride]

By reading that, we should cancel the SCG and declar our automatic qualifier be the highest ranking SWAC team whose season is completed on the weekend before the playoffs. Simple...

Now, we must get the automatic bid. Call the NCAA and present our case.

If we cancelled the SCG, we would still not get the automatic bid unless the BC and TDC were moved. Your scenerio is how JSU went to the playoffs in 1997 and that scenerio would apply if the SCG were cancelled today. Our season was complete in 1997 so WE WERE AVAILABLE and had a 9-2 record and ranked high in the 1-AA polls.

 

[GRAM4LIFE]

If we cancelled the SCG, we would still not get the automatic bid unless the BC and TDC were moved. Your scenerio is how JSU went to the playoffs in 1997 and that scenerio would apply if the SCG were cancelled today. Our season was complete in 1997 so WE WERE AVAILABLE and had a 9-2 record and ranked high in the 1-AA polls.

These are the rules the SWAC doesn't meet...

31.3.4.1 Requirements—Division Championship. To be eligible for automatic qualification in a Division
Championship, a member conference must meet the following requirements: (Revised: 1/9/06 effective 8/1/06)

(a) Conference competition must be conducted in the applicable sport and the conference champion in
that sport must be determined not later than the date on which participants are selected for the NCAA
championship, either by regular in-season conference competition or a conference meet or tournament,
as indicated at the time of application. If a conference’s competition to determine its automatic qualifier
is unexpectedly terminated (e.g., due to inclement weather), the conference may designate its qualifier,
provided it has established objective criteria for making that designation and has communicated that
information to the appropriate sports committee by a specified deadline. (Revised: 8/13/93)

and

(f ) All eligible member institutions must agree to participate in the appropriate NCAA championship. If a
conference champion is ineligible to compete, declines to compete or cannot compete for any reason,
automatic qualification shall be withdrawn for that year and the remaining conference members shall
be considered at large. Automatic qualification for a conference shall not be withdrawn if a conference
champion declines to compete in an NCAA championship for reasons related to written religious policies
against competition on certain days. Under such circumstances, the conference’s second-place team
(as determined by the conference), shall receive the automatic bid to the NCAA championship. (Revised:
4/20/99)

 

[Paul Dolemite Taylor]

simply to play in a playoff game, a game that generates zero dollars. That would be economic suicide for both schools who are already struggling to keep current athletic programs afloat.

STC agrees!

Bring back the Heritage Bowl and let's make sum money. Start it off in a good location with a normal size stadium and pack it with weekend long events and let the fans and band and teams do the rest.

Schedule pwc schools and beat them.