Islam and Christianity.


J C said:
There's no need to insult Muslims and their religion. I like to think you are being provocative in the above post and those judgemental comments do not represent you. "sham" "false" "deadly" "not the true religion" are words of religious intolerant.

sir, Islam insults Christianity all the time. how come you (nor the media) don't point that out (in the case of the media, harp on islam as being "intolerant" christafobes)?

also, if you want to talk "intolerant" what about islamic countries and how "intolerant" they are of other religions not to mention women and their conduct/lives?
 
Dr H.. said:
1906

Are you a Sunni or Shii Muslims?

Bartram

?Great Observation?

Those that became Muslims or embraced Islam in the United Stares were rebellious against the ?White Establishment, The Man, Honkey, etc, etc.? Most of these folks were totally void of Islam and was just jumping on the bandwagon, because it sounded good.

I agree with the Muslims ?rebelling against European Doctrine? Surprisingly, many think Christianity is a ?European Religion? it is not. Christianity, had its beginning on the African Continent long before Islam. Now it?s called the Middle East or Holy Land, but back since the beginning of the creation it was Africa or the Land of Ham.

I work with a lot of Muslims from Africa and the Middle East, whenever we talk about ?American Muslims? they laugh and say ?The are not Muslims and has not idea about being a Muslim and being a Muslim is more than just reading the Koran?

Then there was the back to Africa movement, Negros were wearing (Kitenge, Dashiki and Kangas) thinking that made them African. Again the Brothers and Sisters from Africa laughed at the American Blacks, thinking they were "African" .

Those were the days.

yeah, i say "European" because that's the main focus of ill feelings here in America among non-europeans and it has been Europeans who at one time were as bad or worse than some muslims today in terms of "intolerance" for anything other than Christianity.

bottom line? what we are dealing with today is an inevitable clash between christianity and islam. why come no one will just admit this? (especially in the media??)
 



Bartram said:
sir, Islam insults Christianity all the time. how come you (nor the media) don't point that out (in the case of the media, harp on islam as being "intolerant" christafobes)?

Not exactly true. True Islam commands us to respect both Jews and Christians.
But you will always have extremists.

Bartram said:
also, if you want to talk "intolerant" what about islamic countries and how "intolerant" they are of other religions not to mention women and their conduct/lives?

Be VERY careful with this one. I have dealt with this on many occasions. Don't confuse CULTURE with RELIGION. Many times people meet or know of people from particular countrys that so happen to be muslim and they see and hear of these people doing things in a particular way and think that it is islamic...not the case. And as far as the woman thing. I have talked to women of ALL races from all religions from all over the world. You want to know what I have found?? Muslim women love that fact that they have more rights than their counterparts in other religions.
 
[QUOTE I have talked to women of ALL races from all religions from all over the world. [/QUOTE]


sidenote: My wife just smacked me in the head and asked "What women you been talking too???!!!"

LOL, women are the same no matter what religion ...:nod: :nod: :nod:
 
No argument from me on the attitude of Europeans. I was looking at the History Channel; the focus was on the Knights of Temples and how they went to war in the name of Christianity. The same hold true in the USA with the KKK and there are some that still use Christianity as an excuse to do whatever their heart desire [God Forbid].

"Clash between Christianity and Muslims"

"True and False" I am not sure, the problem {IMO} is not the difference of opinion, but what?s printed in the media. The media portrays Muslims and Islam as a threat to the ?lifestyle and security of Christians? the media portrays ?to Muslims overseas? that the people in the US ?so-called Christians? are superior and they are ignorant. Then you view the media in the Islamic Countries they are saying the US is this and that.

So it a fight between the US ?not Christians? and the Islamic Countries, why look at other countries [Canada] they are not being attacked. The problem is the US attitude toward not only Islamic Countries, but also all countries.
 
yazeed1906 said:
Not exactly true. True Islam commands us to respect both Jews and Christians. But you will always have extremists.

Be VERY careful with this one. I have dealt with this on many occasions. Don't confuse CULTURE with RELIGION. Many times people meet or know of people from particular countrys that so happen to be muslim and they see and hear of these people doing things in a particular way and think that it is islamic...not the case. And as far as the woman thing. I have talked to women of ALL races from all religions from all over the world. You want to know what I have found?? Muslim women love that fact that they have more rights than their counterparts in other religions.

What do you mean "not exactly true"? Either Islam/Muslims insult other religions or they do not. There's no confusion between culture and religion here either. Also, Islamic law mandates second-class status for Jews, Christians, and other non-Muslims in Islamic societies, not cultural traditions like local Islamic equivalents of the KKK.

Well we have had different experiences as it pertains to talking to women of different religions, can't refute your experiences, but the Qur'an ITSELF says women must "lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what must ordinarilly appear thereof~" etc (Qur'an 24:31) and basically not show themselves (cover up everything) except to their husbands. Now this is good basic protocol for any married couple, but can you imagine trying to tell women(esp black women!) in the U.S. that this must be done based on what the Qur'an/bible says? Further, to read this from the Qur'an and to see so many muslim women IN OTHER COUNTRIES (and now increasingly the U.S.) following this to the letter, while at the same time reading things in the bible (yep the bible has verses that can be interpreted in a way as to subjegate people) and seeing that today in the west virtually all this kind of strict regulation of women has been dismantled through things like the civil rights movement, the women's lib movement, changes in the law/legal system and generally a religion that IS more tolerant,,(would like to see the civil law of Islamic countries-oxymoron- over-rule the law of Islamic religion like the law here in the U.S./West over-rules the old testiment "extremist" interpretation of the bible but don't think I will because Islam in most Islamic countries IS the law.) it would seem that at the very best, Islam is significantly less tolerant of women and treats women significantly worse than Christianity(in court, a woman's testimony is worth half as much as that of a man. (Qur'an 2:282)).
 
Dr H.. said:
No argument from me on the attitude of Europeans. I was looking at the History Channel; the focus was on the Knights of Temples and how they went to war in the name of Christianity. The same hold true in the USA with the KKK and there are some that still use Christianity as an excuse to do whatever their heart desire [God Forbid].

"Clash between Christianity and Muslims"

"True and False" I am not sure, the problem {IMO} is not the difference of opinion, but what?s printed in the media. The media portrays Muslims and Islam as a threat to the ?lifestyle and security of Christians? the media portrays ?to Muslims overseas? that the people in the US ?so-called Christians? are superior and they are ignorant. Then you view the media in the Islamic Countries they are saying the US is this and that.

So it a fight between the US ?not Christians? and the Islamic Countries, why look at other countries [Canada] they are not being attacked. The problem is the US attitude toward not only Islamic Countries, but also all countries.

The problem with the references to The Knights of the Templars and to the KKK that are always raised in these discussions is this; if you point to the KKK no question people in the media (and especially on a forum like this which is DECIDEDLY BIASED against the KKK for obvious reasons) will pound them into hamburger meat for being racists hate groups, yet when you have Muslims/Islamic fundamentalists doing the EXACT SAME THING as the KKK of the U.S. has done over the generations, the media and people (espe in a biased setting like this) do nothing but come up with excuses for them and blame other people for their acts, like "well, it's the fault of colonial expansion over the last 1K years that these oppressed people do this.". What's with the double standard? Isn't all killing/violence wrong and if so why doesn't the media and the general public (esp from a setting like this) say so instead of always protecting the image of Islam every time Islamic elements commit horrific acts and TELL THE WORLD this is only the beginning of a war between Islam and the west???

Ironically, I would contend that only people with mentalities LIKE the KKK are capable of standing up to radical Islam because of political correctness to do/say anything while at the same time radical Islam can say and do whatever they please around the world and they are embraced especially by the far left (and blacks because of the historical annimosity towards the white/christian/european for past wrongs) in this country even though the far left in this country benefits the most from living in a country established by laws and rules SET UP BY THE WHITE EUROPEAN BASED ON CHRISTIANITY for crying out loud! let a far left element attempt to do what the far left does in this country in a fundamentalist islamic country! They'd end up like them civil rightsers in Mississippi in the 1960! :lol:

This general "pass" to any kind of opposition/protest group or anything NOT eurpean/christian mentality has consumed this country post the Civil Rights movement of the 1960s. Islam and this growing religious war is the latest revision of said.

Yeah and France(france of all places! the nation that hates the US and is/was a big alley of the muslim cause and opened its arms to muslim/islamic immigrants) was not attacked and neither was Spain nor Austrailia and England and RUSSIA-RUSSIA IS NOT a christian nation my friend and they are the WORST HISTORICAL ENEMY OF THE U.S., WHY DOES ISLAM/MUSLIMS ATTACK THEM??? Also, the U.S. is only 200+ years old. Islam has been fighting against the Jews and non-muslims around the world since the beginning of the religion. No the problem is not FUNDAMENTALLY the U.S. Just so happens the U.S. is the center of whatever is left of christian culture and the biggest threat to Jihad. The fundamental problem to all this is Islam/the Qur'an's teaching of Jihad mixed with the general capitalistic, free-market views of the U.S./West where the primary religion is christianity.
 
Does not ?so-called Christians? insult those of the Islamic faith; in fact ?so-called Christians? insult other ?Christians? to include JW, SDA, Mormons, and Catholic as well as Jews. Too often we take the name ?Christian? and misuse and abuse it. There are millions that proclaim to be a Christian, but are they all Christians, absolutely not. No more than everyone that?s baptized knows Christ.

We first have to examine ourselves to see if we are ?Christians? This country portrays itself to be a ?Christian Country? is it, or is it infested with pseudo-Christians. The only thing holding this country together is due to a few people that trying to do right. In the OT Israel had few that tried to do the will of God, therefore He did not bring total judgment on Israel.

Jesus commissioned the apostles to spread Christianity throughout the world (Matthew 28:18-20; Acts 1:8) -- but it was Jesus Himself who "founded" Christianity with His death, shed blood, and resurrection from the dead ?Not man?

So why don?t ?WE? because we are to busy pointing fingers searching for the faults others, be it based on race, creed, color, religion etc?..

So-called Christians need to go back, read and under what Jesus is talking about:

And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam [is] in thine own eye?

Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. Matthew 7:3-5

When will ?Christians? learn?

Christianity is not a religion; it is a spiritual intimate relationship with God. It is trusting in Jesus and what He did on the cross (1 Corinthians 15:1-4), not on what you can do for yourself (Ephesians 2:8-9). Christianity is not about pointing fingers at other?s beliefs, size of the congregations, flamboyant buildings, flamboyant preachers, rituals or denomination. Christianity is about truly accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior and following the rules established by the ?Godhead? as they were inspired ?God breath? upon the Apostles and handed down to us.

This country is guilty of genocide, but no ones want to confront the issue. It?s guilty of economic genocide on the citizens.
 
Number 1 problem with "Christians" they have forgotten "If they ever knew"

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power [exousia {ex-oo-see'-ah} = the power of judicial and spiritual decisions, physical and mental power]is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Matthew 28:18

What does that mean? You have given up the right to point "your" finger at others, pointing out their faults. You are now controlled by the Living Word "Jesus" and His teachings. You have become a slave to His teachings, not your own, you are no longer prejudice, hateful. You have learned to love and live with “everyone” unconditionally “If possible”. That’s if you are controlled by Jesus’

When God, spoke those words, He (God) totally eliminated (Past, Present of Future) authority on how we live, conduct our worldly or spiritual business and how we treat our fellow man. The best example we have is Jesus, himself making the ultimate sacrifice for not only “Americans / White Folks” but mankind and the story of the Good Samaritan.

He died “for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God” (1 Peter 3:18). Paul also wrote, “Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures” (1 Corinthians 15:3); “He was made to be sin for us” (2 Corinthians 5:21). Peter asserted that Jesus Christ “bare our sins in his own body on the tree” (1 Peter 2:24).

We have all sinned and fallen short of His glory (Romans 3:23), and the wages of that sin is death – separation from God throughout all eternity (Romans 6:23). Jesus Christ died in order to fulfill the unmeasured righteous judgments of God against sin.

I do not know how many have been in the Military or lived in a Foreign Country. Most of those citizens will be quick to tell you “The problem they have with the US is we / some act as if they are above the rest of the world and we treat them like uncivilized people and dogs.” In a way that is true. One of the former Head of State from the former Soviet Union and China, told a former US Secretary of State “Do not dip your nose in our Human Affairs; look at how you treat your own people”


People that still “hate” another person, “I am sorry to say this” but you are not saved and will stand in front of God’s Great White Throne of Judgment!


Read Revelation Chapter 20;11 - 15

And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

Black folks, need get a grip and do some soul searching. The nerves of blacks complaining about others [we / they] follow the advice of Brother James in James 1:19 – 27. If anyone should understand t he plight of Muslims, Hispanic and others it should be the blacks in this country. Please excuse me, I forgot “some of us has arrived” financially and spiritually. Therefore, we cannot feel the hurt and pain of other trying to make it. News flash, you have not made it, until “we / you” have removed the vial of being spiritually blind and accepting and loving people “regardless of” not their action but them. If you dislike or hate another human being, “news flash” you dislike your own flesh and most of all you dislike God, because we were all created by him, out of his image and there are no exceptional to the rule.
 
Dr H.. said:
Number 1 problem with "Christians" they have forgotten "If they ever knew"

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power [exousia {ex-oo-see'-ah} = the power of judicial and spiritual decisions, physical and mental power]is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Matthew 28:18

What does that mean? You have given up the right to point "your" finger at others, pointing out their faults. You are now controlled by the Living Word "Jesus" and His teachings. You have become a slave to His teachings, not your own, you are no longer prejudice, hateful. You have learned to love and live with ?everyone? unconditionally ?If possible?. That?s if you are controlled by Jesus?

When God, spoke those words, He (God) totally eliminated (Past, Present of Future) authority on how we live, conduct our worldly or spiritual business and how we treat our fellow man. The best example we have is Jesus, himself making the ultimate sacrifice for not only ?Americans / White Folks? but mankind and the story of the Good Samaritan.

TOTAL AND COMPLETE SUBMISSION TO DO THE WILL OF GOD!!!
 
Calling God by (one of) His name(s)

*an oldie but a goodie
.
.
.
.

?WHY DON'T ALL CHRISTIANS CALL GOD BY HIS NAME?

Whether some folks want to believe it or not, Jews, Christians, and Muslims are worship and believe in the same God. It is as true as one plus one equals two or - in an equation more appropriate for this discussion - one times one equals one.

Since I, who raised and educated as a Christian, have realized what I now do about our God and al-Islam I have heard a lot of comments that run along the line of "?What do you call your God?" and "We believe in God just like you believe in your God Allah."

"...your God" as if there really was any other god...

In spite of different ways that different monotheistic creatures believe in and worship the one true God, there is still just one.. true... God. It is no different than the fact that we are all born on different days yet we are still all born, we are all still alive.

I, too, used to refer to Allah as "God" and "Dios" and "Gott" (en German), et cetera. I always explained that Allah is His name in Arabic just like God is in name in English, Eloha in Hebrew, and so on. However, I have now come to realize that "God", "Dios", et al are but pronouns used to address the only true Divinity.

God has a name and it is, and always has been, Allah.

Please allow me to explain.

First some background to help enrich the context of what I am sharing:

A growing number of Americans are either speaking some degree of Spanish (I don't know very many Americans that don't know at least a few words) or seriously thinking about learning. Thus, it is an increasingly commonly known fact that the words "el", "la", "los" are definite articles like "the" in English and "die", "der", and "das" in German. For example, "el libro" means "the book", "la casa" means "the house", "los hermanos" means "the brothers", and "el perro" means "the dog" just to name a few.

Approximately four thousand words in the Spanish language are of Arabic origin. This, of course, is because of the centuries that the Iberian penisula (which "houses" both Spain and Portugal) was an Islamic caliphate or principality. The influence and subsequent legacy on Spanish culture and Western civilization in general are too vast of a subject area to cover in this thread but it does play a part in this particular topic.

Again, to review, the definite articles in Spanish are "el", "la", and "los".

Allah is a contraction of the Arabic words "Al-Ilah" which means "The God", "El Dios", "Der Gott", et cetera.

Depending on where Allah is mentioned in a sentence, Arabic grammer and usage may also dictate that it be spelled "Allaha" which is strikingly similar to the Hebrew name, that's right, Eloha.

That brings us to another important point.

The plural form of Eloha is Elohim which is, naturally, akin to saying "Gods" in English.

Every monotheist should naturally bristle at the mere thought of Gods as established by, among other sources, the Toranic principles which are most clearly outlined in the Ten Commandments ("Thou shalt have no other gods...").

Wait ... there is more....

It is also important to remember the Aramaic word for "God". It is important because Jesus himself spoke Aramaic. Yes, he spoke other languages but that had to do with the fact that he was raised in Judea, a crossroads of the ancient Roman empire and many Judeans were multilingual. If we were to draw a parallel between Judea and California or Texas or New York or Florida, for example, then Hebrew, Greek, and Latin would be to Judea what Spanish, Vietnamese, Chinese would be to the aforementioned American cosmopolitan centers. Aramaic was to ancient Judea what English is to modern California, Texas, New York, and Florida.

"God" in Aramaic is Alaha.

*Please note that Christians in places such Lebanon, Syria (where Saul was going to persecute Christians when he was "struck" on the road to...), Jordan, et cetera all say "Allah" when referring to The One Divine without diminishing their Christianity (and those Christian communities "outdate" their European descendants by centuries and the European Christian communities are the ones that begat the American Christian communities).
 
Attack Dog said:
TOTAL AND COMPLETE SUBMISSION TO DO THE WILL OF GOD!!!


I'm glad, very glad you posted that statement.

A very common misconception about al-Islam and Muslims is "Muslim" means submitting to God (present tense). It does not meaning "submitting to God" - it means "submitted to God" (past tense) and the difference is quite significant.

Please allow me to illustrate how big of a difference it can be.

When I was teaching, i remember asking my students how they were coming along on an assignment.

TEACHER "Have you finished your classwork yet Johnny?"

STUDENT "I'm fittin' to, Mr. Teacherperson."

TEACHER "If that assignment is not completed according to class standards by the deadline, you'll be seeing 'I was fittin' to pass Johnny but he did not do his work' on your report card."

You see, it is sort of like that with God: if when the Day of Judgement comes (and none of us will ever really know when exactly it IS going to arrive) and God asks you or I if you or i had done what needed to be done and shunned what needed to be shunned in order to get to Paradise and we tell Him "Well Lord, I was fittin' to...." we should not be surprised when God tells us "Well, I was fitin' to let you in but .."

Islam, Muslim means submitted because when God asks you if you did or didnt, either you did or you didnt.
 
?WHY DON'T ALL CHRISTIANS CALL GOD BY HIS NAME?

Because they [some] are too busy pointing fingers at others and does not realize the word God, was not originally used by the Hebrews. ?God? had many names, because the Hebrews could not find one particular word to describe Him.

Most folks are scare to learn something new - it may take them out of their comfort zone.

"submitted to God"

Translation

to humble oneself, bow down, obedience
 
Dr H.. said:
Does not ?so-called Christians? insult those of the Islamic faith; in fact ?so-called Christians? insult other ?Christians? to include JW, SDA, Mormons, and Catholic as well as Jews. Too often we take the name ?Christian? and misuse and abuse it. There are millions that proclaim to be a Christian, but are they all Christians, absolutely not. No more than everyone that?s baptized knows Christ.

We first have to examine ourselves to see if we are ?Christians? This country portrays itself to be a ?Christian Country? is it, or is it infested with pseudo-Christians. The only thing holding this country together is due to a few people that trying to do right. In the OT Israel had few that tried to do the will of God, therefore He did not bring total judgment on Israel.

Jesus commissioned the apostles to spread Christianity throughout the world (Matthew 28:18-20; Acts 1:8) -- but it was Jesus Himself who "founded" Christianity with His death, shed blood, and resurrection from the dead ?Not man?

So why don?t ?WE? because we are to busy pointing fingers searching for the faults others, be it based on race, creed, color, religion etc?..

So-called Christians need to go back, read and under what Jesus is talking about:

And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam [is] in thine own eye?

Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. Matthew 7:3-5

When will ?Christians? learn?

Christianity is not a religion; it is a spiritual intimate relationship with God. It is trusting in Jesus and what He did on the cross (1 Corinthians 15:1-4), not on what you can do for yourself (Ephesians 2:8-9). Christianity is not about pointing fingers at other?s beliefs, size of the congregations, flamboyant buildings, flamboyant preachers, rituals or denomination. Christianity is about truly accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior and following the rules established by the ?Godhead? as they were inspired ?God breath? upon the Apostles and handed down to us.

This country is guilty of genocide, but no ones want to confront the issue. It?s guilty of economic genocide on the citizens.

Muhammad ibn Abdallah ibn Abd al-Muttalib circa 570-632, the profit of Islam, was a man of war. He taught his followers to fight for HIS NEW RELIGION. (christianity already existed) He said that your god, Allah, had commanded muslims to take up arms which was no joke because HE fought in numerous battles. Did Jesus fight in any battles???? Nope, Jesus taught peace and tolerance turn the other cheek, not chopping the heads off of your enemies. No, Jesus taught things like LOVE thy enemy. Muhammad didn't teach that, unless they converted or paid a tax to continue in their belief system but under the strict rule of Islamic law and subjugated under muslim rule like blacks were under whites in Jim Crow 20th century America. Muhammad and Islam's warring nature is essential to anyone who really wants to understand what
caused the Crusades or now what has led to the rise of the GLOBAL JIHAD MOVEMENT.

Muhammad ASSUMED the role of prophet. He so called received revelations from Allah through the angel Gabriel and started preaching the worship of One God AND HIS OWN POSITION AS A PROPHET. He was not taken seriously by the Quraysh in Mecca who refused to give up their gods. Even his uncle Abu Lahab, REJECTED his message and Muhammad cursed him and his wife which is preserved in the Qur'an,,, i.e., "May the hands of Abu Lahab perish! May he himself perish! Nothing shall his wealth and gains avail him. He shall be BURNT (yeah,, like American soldiers in Falugia. you are consistant must agree) in a flaming fire, and his wife, laden with faggots, shall have a rope of fibre around her neck!" (Qur'an 111:1-5) ,, not too consistent there. today yall just chop off the heads of your enemies. Just like today a Quraysh chieftain Abu Jahl was beheaded by a muslim who carried the head to Muhammad and said, "I cut off his head and brought it to the apostle, saying, 'This is the head of the enemy of God, Abu Jahl.'" ,,, gee that sounds really familiar to today don't it?

And here are some interesting views of the "religion of peace" today:

Those who reject Islam are "the vilest of creatures" (Qur'an 98:6)

Anyone who insults or even opposes Huhammad or his people deserves a humiliating death - by heheading if possible, in accordance with Allah's command to "smite the necks" of the "unbelievers" (Qur'an 47:4)

And then when you compare Jesus to Muhammad, take Matthew 5:44 and Qur'an 8:60:

"Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you",,, Matthew 5:44 (,, which personally i think is stupid when you got fanatics willing to kill you by any means necessary.)

then take Muhammad on the other hand:
"Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into the hearts of the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom you may not know, but whom Allah doth know." Qur'an 8:60 (,,, now if the dopey ultra-liberals in this country WOULD LISTEN TO MUHAMMAD AND THE QUR'AN instead of all this PC garbage,, all this crap would come to a head and be over real quick.)

Also, Muslims/Islam see any aggression as a pretext for revenge, regardless of whether they provoked it. Muslims/Islam is good at swaying public opinion now days and as such Jihadists and your PC allies in the U.S. on the left use current events as pretests to justify things islamic fundamentalists do. You portray yourselves as merely REACTING to grievous provocations from the enemies of Islam/errr the U.S.,, and win poppular opinion. The bottom line is jihadists were fighting long before Abu Ghraib, Iraq, Israel, OR AMERICAN INDEPENDENCE!!!!!! Islam has been fighting and imitating your warrior Prophet every since the seventh century but spinning it as only having to do so because of your enemies!

if you are muslim you will say christianity is not real. if you are christian you will say islam is not real. both sides have been killing since they originated, no one or the other is perfect. today/now, it's islamic fundamentalists WHO ARE COMMITTING GENOCIDE AND KILLING INNOCENT PEOPLE so THEY ARE NO DIFFERENT THAN THIS NATIONS/CHRISTIANS. All things equal,, this nation/christians need to take a page out of the Qur'an,, oh but no, that would be POLITICALLY INCORRECT in a nation like the U.S. where ISLAM can thrive and christianity is under more attack THAN ISLAM!

Also,, would have to ask, if you could have your way, would you like for this country to be converted to Islam and the government to become an Islamic regeme like Iran etc? Do you think this would SOLVE all the problems of this country and the world???? This is the bottom line once you get beyond all this rubbish on a (relatively) FREE AND OPEN FORUM like this IN AN HCC (Historically Christian Country). On the other hand,,, I would ask you,,, if a person was in an ISLAMIC/MUSLIM country and was opposed to ISLAM like YOU are opposed to Christianity,,,, would they have the freedom to say so like you do here?????

Look at what happened to the guy in Europe that wrote the "Satanic Verses" i think it was that was considered an insult to Islam/Muslims. Granted, he was killed by a fanatical private citizen,, but what if you ran a website like this in countries ruled by islamic fundamentalist leaders; you gonna sit here and tell me that we could have this exchange in thos countries and groups and the media be so anti-islam/muslim in a predominantly muslim/islamic country as we are here when it comes to being anti-christian??????? i mean please.
 



Trust me, I am not defending Islam. My main point has been and always will be - Christians, need to understand and practice what they “say” they are / believe. Until we understand and practice Christianity, there is no way we can convert anyone. And that’s why I believe so many “use to be” Christians are departing from the faith and following the teachings of Islam, Christian Science, Mormons and other religious sects.

[There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Romans 8:1

(For we walk by faith, not by sight: 2 Cor. 5:7

If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth - 1 John 1:16

We to often walk [live] by the flesh or standards of the world, not Christ. Therefore, if I am an unbeliever and I have a “Christian” friend that doing everything under the sun. But always proclaiming Christ as being the “Head of his life” and have another friend that a Muslim, practicing what he preach – who am I most likely to follow if I am trying to change my life, certainly not the “Christian”

The Old saying “You can catch more flies with honey than vinegar”

That hold true for converting unbelievers – You can convert more with the way you live than the way you live”
 
Good responses 1906...... Welcome..... MY wish is that everyone could be tolerant of each of our spiritual quests.... In the end, you have to be accountable for your own self.... Let each man decide his fate......:angel2:

There are hypocrits in all walks of spirituality, and ther will be dialogue and arguement about it.... Religion brings out an emotional tie, and when emotion is involved in a discussion, feelings are going to either get hurt or brought to a boil....

Just my .02
 
Anonymous said:
Good responses 1906...... Welcome..... MY wish is that everyone could be tolerant of each of our spiritual quests.... In the end, you have to be accountable for your own self.... Let each man decide his fate......:angel2:

There are hypocrits in all walks of spirituality, and ther will be dialogue and arguement about it.... Religion brings out an emotional tie, and when emotion is involved in a discussion, feelings are going to either get hurt or brought to a boil....

Just my .02

Well, the problem with what you say is that yeah, we can all agree when you say that about Bush/republicans/conservative Americans with judeo-christian values,, but what about when it is islamic fundamentalists? well then all of a sudden there's all kinds of excuses like "well, they are oppressed", "it's because of centuries of mistreatment", well what about when it is Islamic fundamentalists killing black christians in Africa?

And still, no one can/has addressed how it is that in such a "dispicable christian country" as the U.S. and most of the west, islamic fundamentalists/radicals and their sympathizers can pretty much say what they want,,, but can Christians do the same in countries governed by fundamentalist Islamic regemes or even moderate Islamic regemes without brutal reprisal/retaliation/death? What if women don't want to cover themselves up in islamic countries? I mean for God sake we had female military members having to adhere to islamic dress codes in Saudi Arabia/Kuwait. What dress code to islamic women have to adhere to here in the U.S. for fear of offending christian/government? i mean please. the only reason most of you talk the way you do is because you are fundamentally against republicans/Bush/white people because that's the way we've been raised to be. To sit here and actually try to rationalize that Islam is "better than" christianity/the west and in the right is totally ridiculous. Chrisitanity is not perfect either, but my goodness, i would say EASILY that Islamic fundamentalists/muslims fair MUCH BETTER in the west/America/a christian nation than christians/jews do in fundamentalist islamic nations.

So to the original question, seems to me Christianity has evolved much further and is more tolerant by far than Islam.
 
Dr H.. said:
Trust me, I am not defending Islam. My main point has been and always will be - Christians, need to understand and practice what they ?say? they are / believe. Until we understand and practice Christianity, there is no way we can convert anyone. And that?s why I believe so many ?use to be? Christians are departing from the faith and following the teachings of Islam, Christian Science, Mormons and other religious sects.

[There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Romans 8:1

(For we walk by faith, not by sight: 2 Cor. 5:7

If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth - 1 John 1:16

We to often walk [live] by the flesh or standards of the world, not Christ. Therefore, if I am an unbeliever and I have a ?Christian? friend that doing everything under the sun. But always proclaiming Christ as being the ?Head of his life? and have another friend that a Muslim, practicing what he preach ? who am I most likely to follow if I am trying to change my life, certainly not the ?Christian?

The Old saying ?You can catch more flies with honey than vinegar?

That hold true for converting unbelievers ? You can convert more with the way you live than the way you live?

All i got to say on this is yeah, this is fine if religions do their thing, mind their own business and don't resort to KILLING people if they don't convert to a particular religion's views (especially the Jews as relates to Islam)! Both sides do it, but the bottom line is this country is generally christian and if islam says all non-believers must either convert, pay taxes or die and espouse an ideology of "down with America the great satan" then there is a problem,,, which leads to confrontation/war/jihad.
 
Bartram

This countray say the exact samething, by use of its military. In other words do as we say or else we will invade your country, kill your people, steal your resources and "ain't" crap you can do about it.
 
there is but one God. my question is, do we all really worship and serve the one true God (not really a question I have but just presenting it to you all). to me the answer is no. I don't think that most of us question the divinity of Jesus, the Christ. He is the son of God, he is God. If you reject Jesus, you have rejected God Himself. I know only Christians feel this way as to be expected, and I don't have a problem w/ non-Christians who believe differently. Most in Judism don't accept Jesus in that capacity and some even doubt his existance. While Islam certainly shows some respect for Jesus and regards him as a profit, he was much more than that and to not acknowledge that is still short of what it should be.

I see another difference in Judism and Islam from Christianity. As a Christian, one of my responsibility is to spread the Gospel of Christ, to be a witness to life and his power (the great commission). but there is no expectation in that commission that everyone will become a Christian or that the ultimate goal of Christianity is a worldwide Christian kingdom. we seek only to witness, to expose others to Christ. we would like all of our brothers and sisters to join us in the body of Christ, but there is no mandate to take over ther world. Jews, im my reading are still waiting for the "christ", the establishment of the kingdom on earth, and for all to be converted to Judism. some others who posted here have made similar statements about Islam, though I haven't read enough to know. ( I also found it intresting that Jews don't believe that their christ will necessarly be divine, but his main purpose is the establisment of the earthly kingdom and that they have had several possibles but all failed, as Jesus did, to bring this earthly kingdom.)

as for christian denominations, romans 10:9 lays out what needs to be done for salvation. if that has been satisfied then I'll see you at gate #7 upon arrival. the other differences, though perhaps important, are 2nd tier in comparison to attaining salvation itself.

lastly, sad to say, a lot of good people will go to hell. I mean, good, loving, give you the shirt off their back, pay your rent, feed your family when you're out of work type of people. that might seem unfair. some might say a good God wouldn't do such a thing. but we have been forewarned, that indeed, this Jesus fella is the only way. some might no like it or have a real appreciation for what that means. some others might see the actions of some in the Christian body that don't reflect the love and life of Jesus as they should and let hypocrites or "Christians in name only" deter them. He is still the only way. I appeal to you to take a closer look, to investigate or reinvestigate. just ask him to reveal himself to you, sit, be still and wait.....and I'll see you at gate #7.


and the greatest of these is love.
 
People talk about those of the Islamic Faith being "unsaved" well what about the Jews they reject Jesus. Therefore they have to be lost just as well.

No ones want to talk about that!

( I also found it intresting that Jews don't believe that their christ will necessarly be divine, but his main purpose is the establisment of the earthly kingdom and that they have had several possibles but all failed, as Jesus did, to bring this earthly kingdom.)

I am not sure if I am understanding your statement [underlined]. The Jews was looking for a "King" to free them from the grips of the Roman Empire. A majority of them while well versed in OT Scripture, was totally ignorant of the Massiah, his purpose and teachings. Jesus, mission was not focused on establishing a Earthly Kingdom, however the Church is the typology of the kingdom. Those that are saved according to the pattern of the scriptures is the "Earthly" Kingdom or Basileia, which mean "God rule or controlled."
 
Dr H.. said:
People talk about those of the Islamic Faith being "unsaved" well what about the Jews they reject Jesus. Therefore they have to be lost just as well.

No ones want to talk about that!



I am not sure if I am understanding your statement [underlined]. The Jews was looking for a "King" to free them from the grips of the Roman Empire. A majority of them while well versed in OT Scripture, was totally ignorant of the Massiah, his purpose and teachings. Jesus, mission was not focused on establishing a Earthly Kingdom, however the Church is the typology of the kingdom. Those that are saved according to the pattern of the scriptures is the "Earthly" Kingdom or Basileia, which mean "God rule or controlled."


first...some jews, at least those that we consider jews today (who knows who are among the lost tribes....it might be some of us), do believe that Jesus was the Christ. most do not...so in fact many potentially maybe lost while only a reminent will have eternal life in heaven..I guess we'll find out when that trumpet blows...

as for Judaisms view of a messiah or the christ, I found this and based my statement largely on it.

What Will the Moshiach Do?
Before the time of the moshiach, there shall be war and suffering (Ezekiel 38:16)

The moshiach will bring about the political and spiritual redemption of the Jewish people by bringing us back to Israel and restoring Jerusalem (Isaiah 11:11-12; Jeremiah 23:8; 30:3; Hosea 3:4-5). He will establish a government in Israel that will be the center of all world government, both for Jews and gentiles (Isaiah 2:2-4; 11:10; 42:1). He will rebuild the Temple and re-establish its worship (Jeremiah 33:18). He will restore the religious court system of Israel and establish Jewish law as the law of the land (Jeremiah 33:15).

http://www.jewfaq.org/moshiach.htm


there is nothing in Christian doctorine that pushes for the establishment of a Christian gov't that will be the center of all world gov't. of course there have been attempts to do just that or better said, wars have been conducted in the name of doing that. and from the news reporting that I've seen and heard and from that alone(disclaimer) , I've come to understand that Islam also seeks something similar. in that way Christianity seems to differ from them both.

one of the most curious elements to all of this though is that we are basically cousins, all descended from the same family tree. without abraham, none of us would be here. it was his seed, Ishmael, that Islam traces it's ancestory through, and Christianity sprang from Judaism and in fact the early Christians were no more than a sect of the Jews, still compliant in their Jewish customs but having recieving a messiah that the faith at large refused to recieve.
 
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