HBCU Bands vs. DCI Drum Corps

[JR]

Actually, you are way off. Everyone in HBCU bands didn't come from "show" style marching bands. And even thought the rest didn't, they still harness the skills that would make a DCI member jaw drop. I'm really dissappointed that you think no one in an HBCU band has what it takes for DCI.

Co-Sign. I was offended by that post of Mac. Obviously he doesn't realize how much talent comes through HBCU music programs. I played with some very talented musicians in HS and at SU who could have made DCI including myself. Choosing a HBCU to play for doesn't mean you can't compete in DCI. No different did it mean for Steve McNair to play at Alcorn when he could have went to Florida State. He just chose to play where he wanted too.

I played with some cats who are now professional musicians who would have tore DCI up. In HS, myself and my HS classmate who was a drummer that went to JSU both participated in the All-American Winds band which toured Europe and played at the Kennedy Center. He is one the better drummers I have seen. My KKPSI Line Bro is another professional musician who could have ate some of those DCI drummers alive. Pedro Orey who is a Valley alum and now Assist Band Director at Bethune Cookman may have been one of best percussionist I have ever witnessed.I know damn well he could have played in DCI. I mean the list can go on and on about HBCU band alums who are great musicians and could have competed with DCI.

Now as far as the band as a whole.........well maybe not. That's a whole different story. We are not on that level and quite honestly we were not built to be on that level either. It aint that serious for any college marching band that primary objective is to entertain during football games. But never sell short the talent that has marched or are currently in HBCU bands. It is there believe me.

 

[rev t]

Nope!!!!

If there ever came a time when SWAC and DCI Bands competed,.......truth being told,...we would loose and loose big!!!!

You are so right!! :bowdown: :bowdown:

 

[jag4life]

I had friends in my high school drumline who played in DCI (while still in high school...DCI starts at 16). I never marched for SU, but I know dudes who did who can eat some of those cats alive on whatever percussion instrument they play. Hell, I was the section leader over those cats and could have made it but I didn't have the money to participate.

 

[SLT]

Uhhhh...this thread is not whether or not you or anybody else in a SWAC band could outdo some in DCI or even play within a DCI. It is about whether or not DCI and HBCU's on a whole are on different levels precision/musicianship wise. Answer the dayum question or move the freak on! :upset:

Ya'll know ya'll can U-turn a simple question that was asked...


Now JR....I'm gonna have to agree 200% on Pedro being awesome. I played in the band with him at Callaway and was in the band at JSU when he was in Valley's band. Valley's percussion section...heck...Valley's band was off the chain back then. :tup:

Now...back to the topic...please.

 

[Prof K]

SLT, I answered the question but sutrp mentioned that he and the rest of the su band could be in a DCI . Thats how we got off the subject. I think this thread is pretty much over. I wonder where the dude who started this thread is. I wish he could have more input in the discussion.

 

[SUtrp96]

SLT, I answered the question but sutrp mentioned that he and the rest of the su band could be in a DCI . Thats how we got off the subject. I think this thread is pretty much over. I wonder where the dude who started this thread is. I wish he could have more input in the discussion.

1.Naw, pay attention.... I said that simply to say It ain't different levels...


2.It's only a different level if they were doing something a SWAC band could not do...

3.Now we have SWAC bands that are not on the same level.....We have some obviously on higher levels....

4.DO you get to see ALL DCI bands? I think most of you all are basing your opinions on knowing most of the bands in the hbcu well abit to well, and only seeing the best of the DCI world...

I still say an HBCU band can say fugg school put together a PROFESSIONAL show and compete, if they had/wanted to...

Because you choose to play in an orchestra and I choose to play in a jazz band don't put you on another level....we all professionals

And DCI starts at 16 years of age, and you can't sit here and tell me an HBCU college band isn't capable of doing what they do.....

BUT then it comes back to what I was saying all alone....It's about preference, neither one is on another level.....

It's different comcepts!!!!

So to SLT, musicianship from DCI is not on another level to an HBCU band in my eyes.... Maybe some of the NOT so good HBCU bands, buty then we go back to (#4).

I see mostly GSU folks just giving it all up, maybe the level of musiciam=nship that came threw your programs wasn't all that impressive...BUt I am hear to tell you the HBCU program I marched in...'I have not a clue to why you folks feel the way you all do"....
I guess I was fortunate to be around 170 members of above average musicians....And the funny thing about it, there was no scholarships at SU. So all them great musicians came there just because...

My answer still remains "YES"... I am sorry you folk marched in programs to where you feel your program wasn't good enough for nothing but football games....:shrugs shoulders:

 

[SUtrp96]

SLT, I answered the question but sutrp mentioned that he and the rest of the su band could be in a DCI . Thats how we got off the subject. I think this thread is pretty much over. I wonder where the dude who started this thread is. I wish he could have more input in the discussion.

:lol:

He is in his room with his buddies laughing their arses off at these replies...

"I told you them "saggin" knew their places".......

While they reading these lame replies, know a DCI band can try SU and see what happens...:tup:

 

[MusicFan]

"I told you them "saggin" knew their places"....... :xeye:

No, in fact - quite the contrary. Our place as a people is ALWAYS at the seat of excellence!!! Anybody who feels otherwise will not and should not be tolerated. Period.

Regarding Steve McNair...let's not stop there...add HBCU excellence such as Jerry Rice, Walter Payton, etc to the mix!!! .... But does anyone honestly think that the average football player at JSU is better that the average football player at an SEC school? Is it simply a coincidence that Florida State puts more football players in the NFL than FAMU does? We can't make this a racial issue because THOSE ARE OUR KIDS AT FLORIDA STATE!!! I wish we would all go back to OUR schools and build OUR programs up that would generate money for OUR schools but that pandoras box has been opened. Althouth I feel that it can be done, that's another discussion for another day.....

The reason I haven't "chimed in" is because I respect everyone's feelings. Too often people talk in order to hear themselves and don't take the time to listen to others. I've been listening and hopefully learning also. :read:

Let me say that I must apologize because I never meant to upset anyone here with my question regarding the musicianship and precision question I posed to the board in reference to the HBCU and DCI performing groups.

It is indeed an unfair comparison because DCI corps are working on one and only one show for the entire season while HBCU bands would be mocked for producing only one show during their season! Furthermore, HBCU bands do not have the enormous staffs or budgets that DCI corps have. Additionally, the DCI corps have a tryout process that eliminates the average or even good players. The HBCU Bands are great at what they do and I for one love to see the very best such as what I see consistently from schools like Southern University.

Of course there are trumpet players at JSU, FAMU, etc. that could play soprano/trumpet for the Madison Scouts. I have no doubt that the very best could do it! However, I think the arena football league vs NFL comparison was a good one. Let's not make this a racial issue...heck, the Concord Blue Devils had 2 brothers on snare for 2004 and I think the center snare of the Vanguard for 2004 was a brother. Heck, Spirit of JSU had a brother near the center of the snare line in 2004. Furthermore, Ralph Hardimon's (a brother) fingerprint is all over The Blue Knights and Santa Clara Vanguard. He's arranged championship scores for many lines. Even has a very good drumstick (my humble opinion) on the Vic Firth Label. He?s one of the most important figures in the history of percussion in DCI...and I don't think I'm going too far in that assessment. Also, Frank Nash (another brother) has numerous DCA world snare drum championships to his credit!

I'm a snare drummer and I must say that the level of FIELD PLAY in HBCU bands is discouraging. I hope this doesn?t make me a sell out by recognizing that our HBCU band kids are playing level 2 things on the field. Initially I thought that was that was the extent to their talent level until I investigated further to learn that the kids, in many cases, can play at a decent level. It just doesn?t make it to the field show. I'd like to hear from DRUMMERS who do or have marched either or both DCI and HBCU or is familiar both with levels (not styles, LEVELS) of play in these organization. Your objective opinions would be welcomed. Please let's not get upset, we're simply discussing something that many refuse to even address. This shouldn't be perceived to be threatening in any manner.

I love to see my many HBCU bands GET DOWN more than the average person. However, our kids (especially drummers) are not being trained to play at high levels. This is the dirty secret that we like to sweep under the rug. I?m all for the fun, but not at the expense of serious rudimental drumming.

I've played both drum corps and HBCU and trust me - I know what I'm talking about FROM EXPERIENCE regarding drumline play. I don't feel qualified to speak in terms of hornline play. In fact, HBCU hornline play (at the highest levels within bands) is tremendous in my uneducated opinion!!!! :read:

I love my HBCU bands but here's a challenge (to the drumlines, anyway) - let's step it up! Let's get these guys some instructors.

In love,

MusicFan

 

[MusicFan]

:lol:

He is in his room with his buddies laughing their arses off at these replies...

"I told you them "saggin" knew their places".......

While they reading these lame replies, know a DCI band can try SU and see what happens...:tup:

SUtrp96,
SU is good and in my opinion, the best HBCU band I've seen. I do enjoy watching them perform and the first time I saw them I thought their drill was very interesting/entertaining. Their hornline was and remains amazing. They have perfected their field show over the years with a few minor additions here and there.

Back to your original post - I see that you aren't interested in serious dialog so I will oblige. Which DCI corps would you welcome to SU to see what happens? If you had your pick, which would you like to show up? Want some of the Troopers? Maybe Southwind? They're weaker DCI corps so it should be easier to "see what happens", right?

Music Fan

 

[MusicFan]

I had friends in my high school drumline who played in DCI (while still in high school...DCI starts at 16). I never marched for SU, but I know dudes who did who can eat some of those cats alive on whatever percussion instrument they play. Hell, I was the section leader over those cats and could have made it but I didn't have the money to participate.

Unfortnately, this is the case for far too many of us in our community. Lack of opportunity. Let's be the generation that presents the opportunity to our kids if they have the ability and desire.

Drummers...check this link out. Have fun everyone!

http://tonybr.brinkster.net/my_dca_videos.html

MusicFan

 

[MusicFan]

Plus, it would take a person 40 years to graduate from college with the schedule a DCI has. :lol:

Those are some traveling/competing folks!

Naaawww...DCI's schedule doesn't compete with college but summer school would be out of the question!

MusicFan

 

[MusicFan]

As far a individuals go, I have no doubt in my mind that you or any band member of an HBCU could make it in to a DCI and be first chair...

Who among us agrees with that statement? :what:

With Love,

MusicFan

 

[MusicFan]

Friends,

This could go on forever but let's agree to keep our kids playing musical instruments!!! You played trumpet at PV? Teach your daughter to play trumpet...talk about FREE MUSIC LESSONS!!!! You played tenor at 'Bama State? Well, your son should have a leg up to become a h*ll of a drummer through YOUR teaching him.

You played ANYTHING at Grambling in the early 80's? Go back to school to teach your alma mater because they now are awful! :xeye: You too FAMU - don't laugh so quickly! How far you two have fallen...

Just kidding :ebrow: , but I had to get my laugh on...take care and I wish everyone the BEST in 2005!!!

MusicFan

 

[SUtrp96]

Unfortnately, this is the case for far too many of us in our community. Lack of opportunity. Let's be the generation that presents the opportunity to our kids if they have the ability and desire.

Drummers...check this link out. Have fun everyone!

http://tonybr.brinkster.net/my_dca_videos.html

MusicFan

from reading all your other post, like I said before...I don't blame you one bit..

And about opportunities.... Why would you say that? This is America we all have equal opportunity to do what we want... I don'e seen both style, I choose HBCU, not because I thought HBCU was better but because I liked it better...

And why would you send a weaker tier DCI group to prove my point about HBCUs?

Send the Cavaliers if you wish, I am more than confident the STRONGER SWAC bands will show them love, nothing but love on the field....

I know PV, SU and alot of other drumlines with DRUM INSTRUCTORS would represent their style to the fullest and get made props from a DCI....

It's all about preference, once again....

It's harder to make SU drumline than most other drum sections from my knowledge, it's WAS harder and maybe now still harder to get on the field in SU band..... Anybody didn't just make it on the field....

Like I said you getting this replies from folk that may have marched in programs where everyone was let in and anyone could make it one the field...

I am sure FAMU have strict guidlines just like SU.....
Not smacking other HBCUs but I know a number of individuals went to march at other HBCUs because they would not have been allowed to play their principle instrument at SU...... Now that is speaking facts.....

SU program is as high as it get IMO as far as HBCU SWAC for our style and concept..... If they was given the time on the field you folks would be really amazed!!!!!!
BUT!!!!! everyone program isn't staffed with FULL time arrangers that almost the every HBCU is trying to get their hands on including PWC's such as LSU and others..... You have to march ONE year in SU band to fully understand why I am not on the same kick as the rest of these folk on this board...

 

[SUtrp96]

su drilling 95% of the show ?????? Come on now sutrp!

Our drills are about that long in comparison to our whole show... SU isn't like GSU and some other programs that relys on DANCE ROUTINES.....

That's exactly why I don't even judge Halftime anymore and I don't understand how cats can say let it all hang out on the field.....BUT be disipointed when their dance routine doesn't house out......

When I see SU stepping, executing, and drilling their natural arses off, their JOB is done to ME!!!!!!

Shat my crab year dance routines was the pits for us, except for the JSU game...But we did more drills than any other band the years I marched and 96 is looked at in the eyes of some old heads as not letting it all hang out....SMH

I really had to get used to that way of thinking, I am still not used to it.. I am from New Orleans where St.Aug and other Orleans Parish schools NEVER did a dance routine.....

St.Aug was rated the best band in the nation and had NEVER did a dance routine......




But back to the subject...
YES we are on the same level, just not all of the HBCU's they know who they are...:tup:

 

[SUtrp96]

Friends,

This could go on forever but let's agree to keep our kids playing musical instruments!!! You played trumpet at PV? Teach your daughter to play trumpet...talk about FREE MUSIC LESSONS!!!! You played tenor at 'Bama State? Well, your son should have a leg up to become a h*ll of a drummer through YOUR teaching him.

You played ANYTHING at Grambling in the early 80's? Go back to school to teach your alma mater because they now are awful! :xeye: You too FAMU - don't laugh so quickly! How far you two have fallen...

Just kidding :ebrow: , but I had to get my laugh on...take care and I wish everyone the BEST in 2005!!!

MusicFan

You meant what you said... And I agree!!!!!
:tup:

 

[Prof K]

Who among us agrees with that statement? :what:

With Love,

MusicFan

What's wrong with this statement? Maybe I should clarify my statement. I think that members in HBCU bands have the potential to qualify for DCI bands. I'm not saying that you could walk into a DCI and just start performing just like that. I know that the audition process is more than likely difficult for even good musicians. It would be more than your 12 major scales, 5 relative minors, a prepared piece, sight reading, and a partridge in a pear tree. I just would expect more.

 

[jag4life]

Unfortnately, this is the case for far too many of us in our community. Lack of opportunity. Let's be the generation that presents the opportunity to our kids if they have the ability and desire.

Drummers...check this link out. Have fun everyone!

http://tonybr.brinkster.net/my_dca_videos.html

MusicFan

Do you have any from further back than that? A guy I went to high school with named Jon Crochet won the snare solo competition in like '91 or '92 when he was with (I think) Santa Clara.

 

[MusicFan]

And about opportunities.... Why would you say that? This is America we all have equal opportunity to do what we want... I don'e seen both style, I choose HBCU, not because I thought HBCU was better but because I liked it better...

And why would you send a weaker tier DCI group to prove my point about HBCUs?

Send the Cavaliers if you wish, I am more than confident the STRONGER SWAC bands will show them love, nothing but love on the field....

I know PV, SU and alot of other drumlines with DRUM INSTRUCTORS would represent their style to the fullest and get made props from a DCI....

My only point regarding lack of opportunity is that it is expensive to do DCI. At several thousand dollars is shuts the door on many of "us". Maybe you are financially independent and if so, I would ask you to establish a fund so that the poorer among us would have an opportunity to march with the Blue Coats. HBCU's give college credit + a little money for the away game. At least the one that I went to did. Let's leave the Cavies out of this hypothetical game...it would get ugly and I think anyone that is objective would agree. Sure, a drum instructor here and there - but where's the full staff? Where's the world class drum instructors and/or arrangers like Lee Beddis, Scott Johnson, Colin McNutt, etc... When there's a ratio of 4 drummers to each instructor?

An earlier poster was right, this is an unfair comparison. To be fair, only the Big 10 and some of the western colleges even come close to the HBCU showbands. The worst college bands in the nation can be found right in the back yard of the HBCU bands...they're called SEC college bands!!!

Regarding collegiate bands, the top-tier SWAC and MEAC bands are some of my most favorite bands to watch. I think we all an agree on this, right?

With love,

MUSICFAN

 

[PsychoJag]

Well when I was in high school my band director presented me with the opportunity to join a DCI band but I didn't wanna pay the money and give up most of my free time to do it. I can honestly say that their drills are amazing but of course given the amount of time they have to prepare for their shows (1 month) I would expect nothing less. I was a member of The Human Jukebox for 4 years and I can honestly say if you give our staff 1 month to prepare 1 show straight driling we would give The Cavaliers (IMO the best DCI band) a run. Also I know for a fact that many of the guys I had the pleasure of being in the Jukebox with could not only join DCI but become leaders in DCI and I'm more than sure that could go for many other HBCU programs.

 

[PsychoJag]

The worst college bands in the nation can be found right in the back yard of the HBCU bands...they're called SEC college bands!!!

I know for a fact that in SU's back yard we have LSU and they are no where close to being a bad band. IMO they're one of the best. Tennesee ain't bad either.

 

[MusicFan]

Do you have any from further back than that? A guy I went to high school with named Jon Crochet won the snare solo competition in like '91 or '92 when he was with (I think) Santa Clara.

Here are the 1991 and 1992 DCI Iindividual Finals top ten snare guys. Nick Agelis now instructs Spirit of JSU. He and Jeff Queen were both featured in the Broadway Show "BLAST". In my opinion, Jeff Queen is one of the best drummers in the world. He went on to win in 1994 while a member of the Blue Knights....went there to play under the instruction of a BROTHER - RALPH HARDIMON...(I'll be buying a pair of Vir Firth's Ralph Hardimon's sticks for my son when his hands grow more.) For now, he remains in my training....he, he, he.......

Here's the results from the years that you asked about.

1991 DCI Snare and Tenor Individuals - Dallas, Tx
1991 DCI Snare Individuals
Place Contestant Corps Represented Score
1 Jovan Hawkins Madison Scouts 99.00
2 Dean Ponsetti Phantom Regiment 98.00
3 Matt Hughen Magic of Orlando 96.80
4 Paul Gowern Boston Crusaders 96.00
5 Karl Schwabauer Santa Clara Vanguard 95.00
6 Nick Angelis Boston Crusaders 94.00
6 Jason Parent Phantom Regiment 94.00
8 Kevin Murphy Blue Devils 93.00
9 Grego Williams Phantom Regiment 92.00
10 Jeff Queen Velvet Knights 90.00

1992 DCI Snare and Tenor Individuals - Madison, Wi
1992 DCI Snare Individuals
Place Contestant Corps Represented Score
1 Nick Angelis Santa Clara Vanguard 97.00
2 Jason Parent Phantom Regiment 96.50
3 Mike French Blue Devils 95.50
4 Pete Buxman Blue Knights 95.00
5 Paul Gowern Boston Crusaders 94.50
6 Adam Byer Crossmen 94.00
7 Walter Powell Santa Clara Vanguard 92.50
8 Jeff Queen Santa Clara Vanguard 92.00
9 Christopher Johnson Crossmen 91.70
10 Chris Hansen Phantom Regiment 91.00


MusicFan

 

[MusicFan]

Well when I was in high school my band director presented me with the opportunity to join a DCI band but I didn't wanna pay the money .

My point exactly...the money is a fence that far too many of us can't climb.

I can honestly say that their drills are amazing but of course given the amount of time they have to prepare for their shows (1 month) I would expect nothing less.

Actually, they have far more than a month to work on their ever increasingly complex show.

I was a member of The Human Jukebox for 4 years and I can honestly say if you give our staff 1 month to prepare 1 show straight driling we would give The Cavaliers (IMO the best DCI band) a run.

While I agree that it is very amazing that The Human Jukebox can prepare a show so quickly, my only point is that the talent at The Cavaliers (you brought them up) is superior to that of the Human Jukebox. Please take a closer look and I think you'd agree.

Also I know for a fact that many of the guys I had the pleasure of being in the Jukebox with could not only join DCI but become leaders in DCI and I'm more than sure that could go for many other HBCU programs.

[/QUOTE]

I agree wholeheartedly with you. But, I'm speaking about the worst DCI performer VS the worst HBCU performer....in terms of the avergage player, the average Cavie is better than the average SU bandmember. Can't get you to agree with me there, huh? Regarding the SU show, while I'm your school's biggest fan among HBCU's, let's do more that get in the circle, come out of it, show the score on the field, and get an obese caucasian to do a dance for everyone. A little variety would do everyone some good. Oh yeah, how could I forget - the obligatory HBCU drummer hits their snare on 2 and 4 during the field show...good grief....

I've seen the SU snareline play in their sets and I'd smoke most of them and I'm not a world class drummer!!! No disrespect to SU, at least they play their drums at times...and play them at a much higher level than every other HBCU showband I've ever seen, I might add!

Still love you,

MUSICFAN

 

[MusicFan]

Do you have any from further back than that? A guy I went to high school with named Jon Crochet won the snare solo competition in like '91 or '92 when he was with (I think) Santa Clara.

Sorry, I missed him earlier. Joh Crochet finished 24th. At the time, he represented Northern Aurora. (See the bottom of this list). Way to go Joh!!!

MusicFan


1991 DCI Snare Individuals
Place Contestant Corps Represented Score
1 Jovan Hawkins Madison Scouts 99.00
2 Dean Ponsetti Phantom Regiment 98.00
3 Matt Hughen Magic of Orlando 96.80
4 Paul Gowern Boston Crusaders 96.00
5 Karl Schwabauer Santa Clara Vanguard 95.00
6 Nick Angelis Boston Crusaders 94.00
6 Jason Parent Phantom Regiment 94.00
8 Kevin Murphy Blue Devils 93.00
9 Grego Williams Phantom Regiment 92.00
10 Jeff Queen Velvet Knights 90.00
11 John Weber Black Gold 89.00
11 Greg Towery Cavaliers 89.00
13 Mark Lightheiser Cavaliers 88.00
14 Billy Hames Cavaliers 87.00
15 Matt Dammes Spirit of Atlanta 86.00
16 Eric Hanson Colts 85.00
17 Tyler Dempsey Bluecoats 82.00
18 Jon Theisan Blue Devils 80.00
19 Erik Amin Santa Clara Vanguard 79.00
20 Clark Gardner Sky Ryders 76.10
21 Gary Gosselin Boston Crusaders 76.00
22 Ty Morgan Railmen 73.50
23 David Tarlton Spirit of Atlanta 70.00
24 Jon Crochet Northern Aurora 69.00

 

[MusicFan]

I know for a fact that in SU's back yard we have LSU and they are no where close to being a bad band. IMO they're one of the best. Tennesee ain't bad either.

I played with some folks from LSU that played Phantom Regiment in Jr. Corps. They were indeed pretty good. (Going to make my point again here) I just doubt if EVERY player at LSU could have played Phantom Regiment!!!


MusicFan