Are we getting our money worth in the SWAC for coaches?

[Lenard]

Through the last umteen years, a lot of SWAC schools have simply settled.

Lack of accurate and substantial vetting, simply promoting a "coach in wait" tomfoolery, et al ignorance seems to cause a lot of the current issues we see.

Some of the ridiculous playcalling, offensive "offensive" plays, ridiculous defenses, et al ignorance are a direct result of hideous "coaching" and nil leadership.

PV and sTu folk in particular should be beyond pissed as a local hcu, which started football in the year 2013, consistently outpaces, outrecruits, and outperforms both schools on the football gridiron AND they have the jr HS football venue and double-wide trailer weightroom/dressing room lol. Their current coaching staff is beyond any football coaching staff combined that PV and sTu could pretend to assemble right now, this very second.

 

[Lenard]

And the mere fact that anyone recalls that one freaking victory of PV over then hbu serves as evidence of how willfully sorry our athletic institutions are inadequately executed by inept and unqualified humans in the leadership positions. Since some will desire to hang their hat on something so -> remedial lol <- in the grand scheme. If then hbu's QB wasn't knocked out of that game at PV, hbu was prep'ing to put its foot through PV's ass.

hcu's and even iwu's football coaching staffs are stars.

 

[TSU/BAMA]

hcu's and even iwu's football coaching staffs are stars.

No, I better not open that door.

 

[Paul Dolemite Taylor]

Nope!! Swac is paying dudes a huge amount of money and we can’t beat lower level FCS TEAMS consistently. This is a very slippery slope but it’s no excuse for the bad football play and Lack of gameday organization on the sideline.

 

[Kenn Rashad]

Swac is paying dudes a huge amount of money and we can’t beat lower level FCS TEAMS consistently.

That's because those, "lower-level FCS teams" are consistently better organized ADMINISTRATIVELY. Again, administrative organization isn't a sexy topic for most fans, but it truly makes a difference between wins and losses.

 

[Lenard]

No, I better not open that door.

Open it. Speak your piece bruh. We require brutal honesty in 2024.

That stupid decision to go for it on 4th and 5 from an opponent's 25 yard line is a no brainer to understand that a solid reputable kicker, a dime a dozen, bountiful, should have been used to score 3pts to get the squad some points on the board, in the 2nd quarter where you are up by 7 points already. That's just duhhhhhhh dumb decision making. We dare not talk about analytics because that is too far over the head of the current folk drawing salaries to show how inept and unqualified they truly are.

There are well in excess of 3,240+ public & private HSs in texas. Every single one of them has a kicker, every year. What's the problem? Recruiting talented and gifted INTELLIGENT students? lmao

 

[Lenard]

That's because those, "lower-level FCS teams" are consistently better organized ADMINISTRATIVELY. Again, administrative organization isn't a sexy topic for most fans, but it truly makes a difference between wins and losses.

This.

There seems to be hardly nil intelligence to create a stolid plan w/ transparency, accountability, marketing, dividends (ROI), and execution in HBCU fcs schools' athletic administration. They are highly incapable of running their dept like a stolid business.

It requires buy-in and execution w/ logical and rational intell, where these current 2.17 gpa graduated dudes do not cut the mustard w/ their Xs and Os skills.

 

[Paul Dolemite Taylor]

That's because those, "lower-level FCS teams" are consistently better organized ADMINISTRATIVELY. Again, administrative organization isn't a sexy topic for most fans, but it truly makes a difference between wins and losses.

Yes but this happens often on game day. I don’t see how the AD and administrative organization has anything to do with going for it on our end of the field with 4th 7 or throwing it on 3rd and 2. That’s just dumb football!

At the end of the day it’s Football. What are we putting on that field? Are we getting the best bang for our buck?

I don’t think we are as a conference with the rates we paying coaches.

 

[Lenard]

Yes but this happens often on game day. I don’t see how the AD and administrative organization has anything to do with going for it on our end of the field with 4th 7 or throwing it on 3rd and 2. That’s just dumb football!

At the end of the day it’s Football. What are we putting on that field? Are we getting the best bang for our buck?

I don’t think we are as a conference with the rates we paying coaches.

Yes sir. They are dumb as an empty box of rocks.

 

[Paul Dolemite Taylor]

Yes sir. They are dumb as an empty box of rocks.

We all know the challenges at our schools but Fundamental Football cannot be Compromised. We’ve all seen some very questionable calls from our coaches on game day.

Those other FCS pay the assistants along with head coach and when he leaves it’s a guy who’s actually ready to take over and not from no losing staff either. It’s a quality guy waiting on staff and THE BALL KEEPS ROLLING. We rarely do that!

 

[Da Sleeper]

The difference between those coaches and our coaches isn't just about facilities. It's about the ENTIRE athletic program. Those schools don't ask their coaches to go out and find money for the program (like we did with Hue Jackson).

How would better management of salaries not help this. TSU can absolutely hire a good candidate and shave 75-100k off the salary McKinney was making. Wouldn't that eleviate the school asking the coach to raise money for the program?

Those coaches don't have to worry The problem isn't always that HBCU coaches can't coach. They can. The problem is that some of us want to overlook the bigger problems that aren't "sexy" because we know those problems can't be fixed overnight. And because of that, we called them "EXCUSES."

I agree the problems can't be fixed over night. Although, I also believe if the conference was more prudent with H.C. salaries the savings over 3-5 years could eleviate some of the limitations you described.

I find it perplexing that tsu's head coach C. McKinney made more money than every coach in the southland conference.

Let the church say amen. Say it twice a little louder for the people in the back.

I bode the question to both of you. How much of the limitations described and seconded could be due to long term mismanagement/poor allocation of available resources?

 

[Da Sleeper]

That's because those, "lower-level FCS teams" are consistently better organized ADMINISTRATIVELY. Again, administrative organization isn't a sexy topic for most fans, but it truly makes a difference between wins and losses.

Because the swac give all the money to the Head Coach. Mr. Ken you run a business. Apply basic business principles. When you have a set budget and areas are lacking what has to happen? Trim the fat and reallocate. The fat in the swac is the Head Football coaching salary. Give them salaries in low 200k area and a chance at the 300k+ through incentives (team apr, wins per season, division, conference, and bowl wins). You should all see and learn from tsu's return of investment in our previous coach.

The coaches in naia, ciaa, and d2 are making 65k- 90k. Show me which one would turn down 200k to do the same job they are doing now. Plus they have even fewer resources and visibility at the lower level. They would be ecstatic and thankful for the opportunity. I'm sick and tired of these coaches ciming with list's of demands like they are doing our schools a favor by coaching. If they have better opportunities let them take them, like Alcorn did with McNair.

I can show you a couple juco coaches making 50-70k that would easily hold their own in the swac.

Program first people come and go.

 

[LAW DAWG]

Because the swac give all the money to the Head Coach. Mr. Ken you run a business. Apply basic business principles. When you have a set budget and areas are lacking what has to happen? Trim the fat and reallocate. The fat in the swac is the Head Football coaching salary. Give them salaries in low 200k area and a chance at the 300k+ through incentives (team apr, wins per season, division, conference, and bowl wins). You should all see and learn from tsu's return of investment in our previous coach.

The coaches in naia, ciaa, and d2 are making 65k- 90k. Show me which one would turn down 200k to do the same job they are doing now. Plus they have even fewer resources and visibility at the lower level. They would be ecstatic and thankful for the opportunity. I'm sick and tired of these coaches ciming with list's of demands like they are doing our schools a favor by coaching. If they have better opportunities let them take them, like Alcorn did with McNair.

I can show you a couple juco coaches making 50-70k that would easily hold their own in the swac.

Program first people come and go.

I remain puzzled why this paradigm is so hard to understand, nor can I get it wrapped around my head the resistance to it.

Infrastructure over people, coaches come and go.

 

[Lenard]

Throwing additional $$$$ towards a bunch of inept and HIGHLY unqualified humans who lack the required intelligence and acumen to RECRUIT and RETAIN QUALITY student-athletes is not the answer.

I watched a few minutes of this past season's Miles vs Benedict football game and the VERY first thing I noticed were the highly abysmal morbidly obese, physically WEAK, knock-knee'd OL and then the helter-skelter QB play from Miles. The "just chunk it downfield after scrambling for your life because fat boys up front cannot pass block for any longer than 1.2 seconds" approach. That silly shat reminded me of PV football 2023. That is not quality. What I saw from hcu, iwu.... that was a huge improvement over what I saw from PV football 2023. hcu went 6-5 this year. They now have the #1 fcs recruiting class. Their upside is trending in the right direction, w/ their double-wide trailer house weightroom and one-sided jr HS football "stadium." iwu went 9-2 fall 2023.

lol It's too much below average DUMB being employed at our schools.

 

[Kenn Rashad]

I don’t see how the AD and administrative organization has anything to do with going for it on our end of the field with 4th 7 or throwing it on 3rd and 2. That’s just dumb football!

You are not alone. Most people don't see it because all they want to see is football when the problem is actually bigger than just football.

 

[Da Sleeper]

Throwing additional $$$$ towards a bunch of inept and HIGHLY unqualified humans who lack the required intelligence and acumen to RECRUIT and RETAIN QUALITY student-athletes is not the answer.

I watched a few minutes of this past season's Miles vs Benedict football game and the VERY first thing I noticed were the highly abysmal morbidly obese, physically WEAK, knock-knee'd OL and then the helter-skelter QB play from Miles. The "just chunk it downfield after scrambling for your life because fat boys up front cannot pass block for any longer than 1.2 seconds" approach. That silly shat reminded me of PV football 2023. That is not quality. What I saw from hcu, iwu.... that was a huge improvement over what I saw from PV football 2023. hcu went 6-5 this year. They now have the #1 fcs recruiting class. Their upside is trending in the right direction, w/ their double-wide trailer house weightroom and one-sided jr HS football "stadium." iwu went 9-2 fall 2023.

lol It's too much below average DUMB being employed at our schools.

Some people say coaches don't want to come to Houston for less $ because of the cost of living compared to the rest of the swac. I quickly pointed them to the Houston Christian University formally Houston Baptist University coache's salaries, their facilities, and that 30 pt win over pv this past season.

If we could get people would spend the same energy seeking solutions as building excuses. Where could we be?

 

[Da Sleeper]

You are not alone. Most people don't see it because all they want to see is football when the problem is actually bigger than just football.

You are so right. Mismanagement is way bigger than football.

 

[Kenn Rashad]

Because the swac give all the money to the Head Coach. Mr. Ken you run a business. Apply basic business principles. When you have a set budget and areas are lacking what has to happen? Trim the fat and reallocate. The fat in the swac is the Head Football coaching salary. Give them salaries in low 200k area and a chance at the 300k+ through incentives (team apr, wins per season, division, conference, and bowl wins). You should all see and learn from tsu's return of investment in our previous coach.

The coaches in naia, ciaa, and d2 are making 65k- 90k. Show me which one would turn down 200k to do the same job they are doing now. Plus they have even fewer resources and visibility at the lower level. They would be ecstatic and thankful for the opportunity. I'm sick and tired of these coaches ciming with list's of demands like they are doing our schools a favor by coaching. If they have better opportunities let them take them, like Alcorn did with McNair.

I can show you a couple juco coaches making 50-70k that would easily hold their own in the swac.

Program first people come and go.

This is a convoluted question. Budgets are set annually and should not be confused with capital expenditures. Coaching salaries are typically supplemented via private sources.

 

[Lenard]

Some people say coaches don't want to come to Houston for less $ because of the cost of living compared to the rest of the swac. I quickly pointed them to the Houston Christian University formally Houston Baptist University coache's salaries, their facilities, and that 30 pt win over pv this past season.

If we could get people would spend the same energy seeking solutions as building excuses. Where could we be?

The answers are obvious, but they are too entrenched in their normalcy of acceptance of settling. We have settled for excess of the last 40-50+ years and that is the norm coupled w/ the propensity to come up w/ remedial and silly excuses attempting to substantiate the weakness(es).

Until they mentally mature and perform a deep-dive towards root cause(s) (root cause analysis) to solve the problem vs attempting to annually waste and throw a bunch of $$$$$ at an obviously broken system which has NO semblance of a positive ROI, the same stupidity, ala Albert Einstein's definition of insanity, will continue to be repeated annually, regardless of the pretty "paint" and new structures one places about the systemic problem(s). And don't expect people like me w/ > 30+ years experience in our respective fields to "vounteer" our valuable time to educate on the principles to implement QDM. We didn't receive a free education so spend the required $$$$ to become educated, just like all of us did. Geez, even local HSs have implemented QDM for Christ's sake. smh

There is NO committed QUALITY, > 90+% because there are exceptions here and there, being employed in SWAC fcs depts. I want to see some athletic administration or administration (period) credentials: graduation degree/major, gpa, and work experience. Start there.

 

[LAW DAWG]

It's difficult to compare coaches' salaries at HBCUs to PWIs simply because HBCU coaches are often asked to do more with fewer resources and economic and infrastructure support. Hue Jackson mentioned this upon his exit from Grambling. Montana (that state's largest school) can pay the coach $200,000 because, often, that person isn't tasked with taking on similar responsibilities to overcome whatever shortcomings within the program there are.

I think that is an assumption more than a reality. Just because we are HBCU fans/supporters/enthusiast and have platforms to discuss internal thoughts and workings of our athletic departments doesn't mean others are without issues.

A white coach employed at a DII PWI penned this in a letter to other coaches upon departing for another opportunity:

In that letter, he laid out some of the stark realities of being the head coach at the small, private Division II program located in east Tennessee.
Among the challenges he shares are having to sleep on couches in recruiting and only recruiting in areas where your coaches live to so they can save money, sharing the indoor facility with 24 other sports, and having to hire coaches 30 or younger because of the low salaries available. Those coaches will also have to wear multiple hats like painting the fields, helping with equipment and being an academic advisor to their players.

On a positive note, Odom shares that the next head coach will be set up with more resources and competitive scholarship packages, and raves about the leadership at the school, despite the many challenges.

https://footballscoop.com/news/d-ii-coach-steps-down-and-pens-letter-sharing-challenges-of-the-job-for-future-head-coach

 

[CEE DOG]

This is a convoluted question. Budgets are set annually and should not be confused with capital expenditures. Coaching salaries are typically supplemented via private sources.

I don't know if you and Kendrick have done this topic on your podcast but it might be a good to do in 2024. Especially since you all can give more information on it many of us don't know.

 

[Kenn Rashad]

I don't know if you and Kendrick have done this topic on your podcast but it might be a good to do in 2024. Especially since you all can give more information on it many of us don't know.

I think it would even be better to actually invite a couple of ADs on the show to hopefully educate us all. I appreciate the suggestion.

 

[LAW DAWG]

The problem is we always gotta find excuses. Ok South Dakota and Montana is what y'all don't want to use. What about other coaches in FCS who are in the top 25? Where do we compare? See the problem with our community is we are always looking for an excuse to show why something isn't working instead of saying what is it we can fix to make it work. The point is all these schools similar to us are still winning outside of their conference with smaller salaries and their position coaches make less than ours too.

I saw them coming a mile away. Maybe looking at the SLC will help:

SOUTHLAND CONFERENCE – FOOTBALL SALARIES

Collegiate Consulting compiled data on football staff salaries within the Southland Conference as a point of comparison for the University of New Orleans.
When examining this section, it is important to note that salary allocations vary based on performance and responsibilities.
The average salary for a football head coach in the Southland Conference is over $202,305. Nicholls State University has the highest paid head coach in the conference at $256,000, while Houston Baptist has the lowest at $171,000.
The average salary for an assistant coach range from $88,140 to $23,725. Incarnate Word’s first assistant is the only assistant coach to make more than $100,000. Incarnate Word is the only institution to have a football director of operations ($48,400) and equipment manager ($24,185).
As far as graduate assistants, Houston Baptist and Incarnate Word are the only institutions that list salaries for these positions.

https://crescentcitysports.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/UNO-FB-Plan-Draft-091721.pdf

 

[Stillabrave]

The goal of the SWAC is to win the Celebration Bowl. If JSU feels like paying TC 300k is worth it, then the answer is yes

That being said, even Valley pays a little bit above average for our HC compared to the rest of the FCS

Don't compare our salaries to ND, SD or Montana schools because they're the big state schools with no FBS schools and no legislatures to oppress them. Compare our salaries to the SELAs and CAUs of the world

I agree. those schools should be FBS anyway. But let's face it. What else is there to do in those states.....my opinion.

 

[Stillabrave]

(I posted this in our private forum earlier this month)

The difference between us and other programs is that we pay our coaches more because our ADs and presidents know HBCU coaches have to work with less. And we expect them to do more with LESS.

The coach at South Dakota State makes $306,000. The coach at Montana State makes $214,000. The coach at Idaho makes $210,000. All of those teams are nationally ranked and would beat the holy dog shit out of any HBCU that played against them.

The difference between those coaches and our coaches isn't just about facilities. It's about the ENTIRE athletic program. Those schools don't ask their coaches to go out and find money for the program (like we did with Hue Jackson). Those coaches don't have to worry about having qualified individuals working in the athletic department of compliance or academic success (unlike Hampton or FAMU). Those coaches don't have to worry about having a proper training staff (unlike Alcorn). Those coaches don't have to worry about having enough money to go on the road to recruit players or getting reimbursed for their travel expenses. Those coaches don't have to worry about their players getting proper nutrition (unlike our athletes). Both Fobbs and Jackson have said that if there were just ONE thing they could have more than anything for the program, it would be better nutrition for the student-athletes. IN OTHER WORDS, the only thing those other coaches are responsible for when they are hired are wins and loses. HBCU coaches are responsible for wins, losses, and additional shit that other FCS PWI coaches don't have to worry about.

The problem isn't always that HBCU coaches can't coach. They can. The problem is that some of us want to overlook the bigger problems that aren't "sexy" because we know those problems can't be fixed overnight. And because of that, we called them "EXCUSES."

PREACH