Are we getting our money worth in the SWAC for coaches?


CEE DOG

CEE DOG

Well-Known Member
I saw where folks are saying FAMU needs to pay Willie Simmons more money and with all the other openings in the SWAC. Here is what I found on our counter parts coaching salaries who I think are getting more bang for their buck! maybe it's me, What's your view?

MSU head coach Brent Vigen will be paid a base salary of $214,649.87
Henderson signed a five-year contract with South Dakota State. Stadium obtained a copy of the signed contract via public records request. His annual base salary is $275,000 but he'll have the opportunity to earn supplemental compensation starting in the 2021-22 fiscal year: FY22: Minimum of $25,000
Football head coach Matt Entz is NDSU's highest-paid employee at $396,619
 
We are not. I was kinda stunned by the salaries of the coaches in the FCS championship game. If we are going to be paying coaches premium salaries then we need to see premium outcomes on the field.

The base salary for the two coaches in the FCS Championship:

SDSU: 305k
Montana: 205k

Furman (another top 10 team) is at around 300k.

We tend to pay fook without a plan to be best in class. It's irresponsible.
 

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The goal of the SWAC is to win the Celebration Bowl. If JSU feels like paying TC 300k is worth it, then the answer is yes

That being said, even Valley pays a little bit above average for our HC compared to the rest of the FCS

Don't compare our salaries to ND, SD or Montana schools because they're the big state schools with no FBS schools and no legislatures to oppress them. Compare our salaries to the SELAs and CAUs of the world
 
In_The_662 said:
The goal of the SWAC is to win the Celebration Bowl. If JSU feels like paying TC 300k is worth it, then the answer is yes

That being said, even Valley pays a little bit above average for our HC compared to the rest of the FCS

Don't compare our salaries to ND, SD or Montana schools because they're the big state schools with no FBS schools and no legislatures to oppress them. Compare our salaries to the SELAs and CAUs of the world
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When a cost analysis is done it's done with data at a comparable rate. They are FCS schools who win year and year out. Nothing wrong with winning out of conference games. As a fan I don't expect us to be P5 schools, but I also don't buy season tickets and support other ways to see us lose to other FCS schools in the SWAC and outside of the SWAC. Many of our schools struggle with D2. Makes no sense. None.
 
It's difficult to compare coaches' salaries at HBCUs to PWIs simply because HBCU coaches are often asked to do more with fewer resources and economic and infrastructure support. Hue Jackson mentioned this upon his exit from Grambling. Montana (that state's largest school) can pay the coach $200,000 because, often, that person isn't tasked with taking on similar responsibilities to overcome whatever shortcomings within the program there are.
 
Kendrick said:
It's difficult to compare coaches' salaries at HBCUs to PWIs simply because HBCU coaches are often asked to do more with fewer resources and economic and infrastructure support. Hue Jackson mentioned this upon his exit from Grambling. Montana (that state's largest school) can pay the coach $200,000 because, often, that person isn't tasked with taking on similar responsibilities to overcome whatever shortcomings within the program there are.
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What are the other extra tasks and responsibilities that justify some of these SWAC salaries? Half the time, these coaches aren't even getting the X's and O's right. Instead of paying 250k-350k to the head coach, could 50-100k of that money be allocated to other positions that can handle the extra "tasks and responsibilities"?
 
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The problem is we always gotta find excuses. Ok South Dakota and Montana is what y'all don't want to use. What about other coaches in FCS who are in the top 25? Where do we compare? See the problem with our community is we are always looking for an excuse to show why something isn't working instead of saying what is it we can fix to make it work. The point is all these schools similar to us are still winning outside of their conference with smaller salaries and their position coaches make less than ours too.
 
Furman UniversityHEAD COACH FOOTBALL40 hrs per week$282,194

Austin Peay Head football coach $325,000

Ok so since we don't want Montana and South Dakota here are two more FCS schools in the top 25
 
TSUalum05 said:
How do these other schools y’all are mentioning compare with expenditures for football?
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I really didn't look to go that deep with it, but if we wanna use that angle what about our head to head match ups with the MEAC, SIAC and the CIAA. How many times have our schools struggled with Tuskegee, Miles, Delta St and the likes where as their coach is making 85-120k vs our 350K! Just saying. Seems like we are getting the shortened of the stick.
 
CEE DOG said:
I really didn't look to go that deep with it, but if we wanna use that angle what about our head to head match ups with the MEAC, SIAC and the CIAA. How many times have our schools struggled with Tuskegee, Miles, Delta St and the likes where as their coach is making 85-120k vs our 350K! Just saying. Seems like we are getting the shortened of the stick.
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I have been beating this drum 🥁 for a decade. Also, those lower level coaches winning championships, and giving our schools the blues should be our candidate pool. An example would be Chennis Berry. Berry was considered for a number of programs this year. Took a job with a lower salary to stay in state.

These coaches struggle to make 100k. One I was pushing is head football coach and AD to get over 100k. These coaches are solid with impressive resumes. Take a coach making 90k and offer him 210k and insensitive. He's coming and will probably beat you back to campus. It's mind boggling how our schools find ways to hustle backwards.

That 100k saved in salary can go a long way to help the program in other ways.
 
(I posted this in our private forum earlier this month)

The difference between us and other programs is that we pay our coaches more because our ADs and presidents know HBCU coaches have to work with less. And we expect them to do more with LESS.

The coach at South Dakota State makes $306,000. The coach at Montana State makes $214,000. The coach at Idaho makes $210,000. All of those teams are nationally ranked and would beat the holy dog shit out of any HBCU that played against them.

The difference between those coaches and our coaches isn't just about facilities. It's about the ENTIRE athletic program. Those schools don't ask their coaches to go out and find money for the program (like we did with Hue Jackson). Those coaches don't have to worry about having qualified individuals working in the athletic department of compliance or academic success (unlike Hampton or FAMU). Those coaches don't have to worry about having a proper training staff (unlike Alcorn). Those coaches don't have to worry about having enough money to go on the road to recruit players or getting reimbursed for their travel expenses. Those coaches don't have to worry about their players getting proper nutrition (unlike our athletes). Both Fobbs and Jackson have said that if there were just ONE thing they could have more than anything for the program, it would be better nutrition for the student-athletes. IN OTHER WORDS, the only thing those other coaches are responsible for when they are hired are wins and loses. HBCU coaches are responsible for wins, losses, and additional shit that other FCS PWI coaches don't have to worry about.

The problem isn't always that HBCU coaches can't coach. They can. The problem is that some of us want to overlook the bigger problems that aren't "sexy" because we know those problems can't be fixed overnight. And because of that, we called them "EXCUSES."
 

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In_The_662 said:
The goal of the SWAC is to win the Celebration Bowl. If JSU feels like paying TC 300k is worth it, then the answer is yes
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They are worth what the market is willing to pay. Those high salary demands come with pitfalls for coaches like Hue( no payout) & Dooley who were fired less than 2 years in . Those are " probably" their last HC job opportunities at the D1 level or higher. Some would accuse HBCU'S of " lowballing" it's Coaches & point out that as the reason for poor coaching if we reset the market & rein in the salaries. We've decided that the FCS playoffs are not worth it so why compare coaches salaries to FCS playoff Coaches?
 
Kenn Rashad said:
(I posted this in our private forum earlier this month)

The difference between us and other programs is that we pay our coaches more because our ADs and presidents know HBCU coaches have to work with less. And we expect them to do more with LESS.

The coach at South Dakota State makes $306,000. The coach at Montana State makes $214,000. The coach at Idaho makes $210,000. All of those teams are nationally ranked and would beat the holy dog shit out of any HBCU that played against them.

The difference between those coaches and our coaches isn't just about facilities. It's about the ENTIRE athletic program. Those schools don't ask their coaches to go out and find money for the program (like we did with Hue Jackson). Those coaches don't have to worry about having qualified individuals working in the athletic department of compliance or academic success (unlike Hampton or FAMU). Those coaches don't have to worry about having a proper training staff (unlike Alcorn). Those coaches don't have to worry about having enough money to go on the road to recruit players or getting reimbursed for their travel expenses. Those coaches don't have to worry about their players getting proper nutrition (unlike our athletes). Both Fobbs and Jackson have said that if there were just ONE thing they could have more than anything for the program, it would be better nutrition for the student-athletes. IN OTHER WORDS, the only thing those other coaches are responsible for when they are hired are wins and loses. HBCU coaches are responsible for wins, losses, and additional shit that other FCS PWI coaches don't have to worry about.

The problem isn't always that HBCU coaches can't coach. They can. The problem is that some of us want to overlook the bigger problems that aren't "sexy" because we know those problems can't be fixed overnight. And because of that, we called them "EXCUSES."
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Someone asked the question earlier in the thread and I'll repeat it with a different spin. Instead of paying premium for a head coach without the results to show for it, why not change the paradigm and put the money into those things that will stabilize the program and yield more successful outcomes like compliance or recruiting or nutrition? See the question doesnt have to be why does HBCU coaches get paid so much. The question can be why are admin so irresponsible with the money they actually put into the program especially when there is evidence that they aren't getting their moneys worth? Obviously this is a rhetorical question but are there not other patterns that they can follow to yield better outcomes?
 
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Venom Skywalker said:
Someone asked the question earlier in the thread and I'll repeat it with a different spin. Instead of paying premium for a head coach without the results to show for it, why not change the paradigm and put the money into those things that will stabilize the program and yield more successful outcomes like compliance or recruiting or nutrition? See the question doesnt have to be why does HBCU coaches get out so much. The question can be why are admin so irresponsible with the money they actually put into the program especially when there is evidence that they aren't getting their moneys worth? Obviously this is a rhetorical question but are there not other patterns that they can follow to yield better outcomes?
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I'm curious now and I'd like to ask a question from another angle. Do we believe these coaches would win if they landed at some of the schools listed with less pay but more infrastructure and support? Are these issues SWAC specific?
 
Kenn Rashad said:
(I posted this in our private forum earlier this month)

The difference between us and other programs is that we pay our coaches more because our ADs and presidents know HBCU coaches have to work with less. And we expect them to do more with LESS.

The coach at South Dakota State makes $306,000. The coach at Montana State makes $214,000. The coach at Idaho makes $210,000. All of those teams are nationally ranked and would beat the holy dog shit out of any HBCU that played against them.

The difference between those coaches and our coaches isn't just about facilities. It's about the ENTIRE athletic program. Those schools don't ask their coaches to go out and find money for the program (like we did with Hue Jackson). Those coaches don't have to worry about having qualified individuals working in the athletic department of compliance or academic success (unlike Hampton or FAMU). Those coaches don't have to worry about having a proper training staff (unlike Alcorn). Those coaches don't have to worry about having enough money to go on the road to recruit players or getting reimbursed for their travel expenses. Those coaches don't have to worry about their players getting proper nutrition (unlike our athletes). Both Fobbs and Jackson have said that if there were just ONE thing they could have more than anything for the program, it would be better nutrition for the student-athletes. IN OTHER WORDS, the only thing those other coaches are responsible for when they are hired are wins and loses. HBCU coaches are responsible for wins, losses, and additional shit that other FCS PWI coaches don't have to worry about.

The problem isn't always that HBCU coaches can't coach. They can. The problem is that some of us want to overlook the bigger problems that aren't "sexy" because we know those problems can't be fixed overnight. And because of that, we called them "EXCUSES."
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I was reading a Chicago Tribune article from 2018 or so that pointed out that most G5 schools do not have a dedicated year round nutrition training table. While some issues are valid I think its a bit unrealistic to expect Grambling or SWAC schools to have resources that most G5 schools can't afford. Fobbs & Jackson's comments are actually reassuring to me that Grambling , at a minimum , does have the resources/ facilities to compete
 
Kenn Rashad said:
(I posted this in our private forum earlier this month)

The difference between us and other programs is that we pay our coaches more because our ADs and presidents know HBCU coaches have to work with less. And we expect them to do more with LESS.

The coach at South Dakota State makes $306,000. The coach at Montana State makes $214,000. The coach at Idaho makes $210,000. All of those teams are nationally ranked and would beat the holy dog shit out of any HBCU that played against them.

The difference between those coaches and our coaches isn't just about facilities. It's about the ENTIRE athletic program. Those schools don't ask their coaches to go out and find money for the program (like we did with Hue Jackson). Those coaches don't have to worry about having qualified individuals working in the athletic department of compliance or academic success (unlike Hampton or FAMU). Those coaches don't have to worry about having a proper training staff (unlike Alcorn). Those coaches don't have to worry about having enough money to go on the road to recruit players or getting reimbursed for their travel expenses. Those coaches don't have to worry about their players getting proper nutrition (unlike our athletes). Both Fobbs and Jackson have said that if there were just ONE thing they could have more than anything for the program, it would be better nutrition for the student-athletes. IN OTHER WORDS, the only thing those other coaches are responsible for when they are hired are wins and loses. HBCU coaches are responsible for wins, losses, and additional shit that other FCS PWI coaches don't have to worry about.

The problem isn't always that HBCU coaches can't coach. They can. The problem is that some of us want to overlook the bigger problems that aren't "sexy" because we know those problems can't be fixed overnight. And because of that, we called them "EXCUSES."
Click to expand...

So why not pay support staffs with that same mentality?
 
Great conversation folks. I agree most of our administrations are terrible and to a point our AD's are lazy and do just enough. We all saw that with the 10 game SWAC conference schedule we use to have. So what about the player development though? I men some players come in the SWAC balling and seem to regress after the first to years. Simple schemes run by the offense and defense seem to lack with no adjustments at halftime most of the time. By the way most of my points come from this page year after year in each thread during football season. I'm merely addressing what is said on this forum many times over the last 20 years.
 
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