Women in the Pulpit


J-State said:
Its amazing that Jesus never spoke against woman preaching but Paul gives young Tim some instructions to deal with a specific issue, we take it and run with to support our own belief and teaching. :read:
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It's amazing that the apostle Paul can be clear about women teaching and preaching but others will READ and interpretation into it to support thier own beliefs and run with it all the way to doing exactly what PAUL said not to do...

Now we know PAUL advised against it .... Can anyone tell me who RECOMMENDED it? And where to find that recommendation in the bible? If you can't then stop saying that listening to PAUL's instruction is self serving and admit that ignoring Pauls advice IS self serving.
 
SUJagFan said:
Hmmm.

Let's see what else Paul says:

1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ. 2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you. 3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. 1 Corinthians 11:1 - 3​

"Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ. ... keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you." Seeing that Paul was Apostle to the Gentiles, it appears that we are supposed to take what he says and run with it.

As far as verses 2 and 3 are concerned, according to y'alls logic, if it's okay for a woman to lead men in the church then it should be okay for a man to lead Christ. We all know that's ludicrous and not possible. A woman leading a church is out of order, just as it would be out of order for a man to try to dictate to Christ. Which is what is happening when we allow women to preach and pastor churches. It's out of order. Period.
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Amen Brother...
 

96lioness said:
In addition, these are some things to consider: when it came time for the Lord to destroy Sisera (an evil army commander who oppressed the children of Israel), it was a woman named Deborah (a prophetess and only female judge of Israel; she judged Israel for almost 30years), who knew of God's plan to destroy Sisera; it was Deborah who told Barak that he was to go and have victory over Sisera; it was Deborah who went with Barak because he said he'd only go if she went with him; it was Deborah who told him that the honor would be given to a woman because of his apprehension

It was a woman, Jael, who slaughtered the oppressor Sisera.


With that being said, we all know that women have played pivotal roles in the Bible;it was a woman and prostitute (Rahab) that risked her life & hid God's spies in her home so they could carry out the Lord's command; it was women who wept for the Saviour while he suffered and bled at Calvary; it was women who were the first to go and embalm His body after His death, and it was a woman (Mary Magdalene), also present at the Crucifixion, that the Lord first appeared to and instructed her to go to His brothers (disciples) and tell them of His Resurrection. Even now, women in the church serve pivotal roles, as they also are adequate to teach and relay God's Word to others. You don't always have to be in a pulpit to teach or preach God's Word. And when it comes to offering Salvation to others, especially those outside the household of faith, you don't have to be a man to lead souls to Jesus Christ.
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All so true. You don't have to be a man to win souls for christ. In fact WE ALL are commanded to do so. And likewise, we all are commanded on what NOT to do as well. Paul put it clearly but you choose to ignore what is clear?

Women and thier role in the bible, christian evangelism and great works in the name of the lord is not questioned. But their roll is well defined. And that definition has not and never has included leading worship, preaching and being the head of the church.... NEVER HAS BEEN.. . Good works or not, it is NOT the roll of a woman...
 
Tony said:
Acts 2:16-18

16 But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:


17 ‘And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your young men shall see visions,
Your old men shall dream dreams.
18 And on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days;
And they shall prophesy


Hmmm..sounds like women preaching to me
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When you're trying to serve your own desires, anything can "SOUND LIKE" anything YOU want it to sound like...

Question, can you find an example of a women as the head of a church?

Nother question . .. . Can you explain to me how 'Women are to be silent' somehow doesn't mean 'WOMEN ARE TO BE SILENT' ???
 
96lioness said:
No, she wasn't a preacher, but her faith caused others to become Believers, which is the primary responsibility of the church.
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So true... And so in order with what is written... She wasn't a preacher. Or a pastor of a church... And her role was to spread the news so others could come to Christ. Is that not enough glory for you??? Or do you need to be called pastor and lead a church too?

Good works are rewarded in heaven. Not with a pulpit to a women.... Not God's design. No matter how GOOD a woman's works are...
 
J C said:
Women were considered to be the possession of men during the first millennial. That is not the case today. Interpretation of the scriptures have changed. Slavery was once interpreted to be supported by the scripture. Change is constant, adjust or be left behind.
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:lol:
 
J C said:
Women were considered to be the possession of men during the first millennial. That is not the case today. Interpretation of the scriptures have changed. Slavery was once interpreted to be supported by the scripture. Change is constant, adjust or be left behind.
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No way did you say this man.... "God CHANGES NOT". But man does... And thus you have those who go astray chasing the desires of their own heart.... You call it Change... I call it SIN !
 
Bleedbluefan said:
A book written by man...and you want to find something about a woman and authority? Lol good luck. PS, pay attention to the message, not the messenger. We were all created in his like-ness, who cares if it is a wo-man or man.
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Apparently God, Jesus, Paul etc etc care... You don't... I'll stick with them...
 
We should always research the context to which the author is writng before trying to make a doctrine out of what we read at face value.

1 Timothy 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

There is a great controversy in the church today over these verses. The contention has increased with the change of women's roles in society. There isn't a simple answer, but a subtle point in this passage should defuse much of the contention.

Paul is not teaching that women "in general", are to submit to men in general (Col. 3:18). Paul is speaking about a wife, not taking by force, the leadership role over her husband.

That is the point of Paul specifying that women should not "usurp" authority over "THE man." This singles out an “individual man”, not mankind. It refers to a “wife” not being her husband's boss. Paul is saying that a “wife” is to let the "husband" take the leadership role in the church (Eph. 5:22-24). She is to let her husband speak.

The word "usurp" in this verse further strengthens this interpretation. Usurp means, "To seize and hold, . . . by force and without legal right or authority." Paul is talking against a woman lording it over her husband. We've all seen “boisterous" women with “timid" husbands. That's what Paul is speaking against.

This is similar to what Paul goes on to say about the men in the next chapter. He told Timothy not to make a man a bishop who couldn't rule his own house. Likewise, he is saying that a woman should not speak in the church if she's trying to “usurp” her husband's authority. If a man's home isn't in order, he shouldn't minister, and if a woman's husband isn't in agreement with her saying something, she should be quiet.

The reason for Paul's instruction about the wife keeping quiet is to keep her from usurping authority over her husband. This does not forbid women to speak in the church if their husbands are in agreement.

Paul spoke of women praying and prophesying in the church services (1 Cor. 11:5). Priscilla instructed Apollos (Acts 18:26) and Paul instructed the older women to teach the younger women (Tit. 2:3-4). It appears that Paul does not forbid women to teach “under appropriate circumstances”.

The Greek word for "woman" in the verse above is 'gune'. Here is the definition of this word:

1135. gun guns, goo-nay' a woman; specially, a wife:--wife, woman.

So then, Paul was referring to a wife, not women in general. Paul is dealing with a husband and wife relationship issue here and NOT an issue with women in ministry or being quiet in general!

Paul is talking about each wife being in subjection to her own husband. However, this is NOT a subjection of being lorded over but is one of the husband loving (giving himself for) his wife even as Christ gave Himself for the church (Eph. 5:25). In other words, the husband gives first and then his wife's subjection is the spiritual/natural response, even in the same way the church (the body of Christ) responds to her Lord Jesus.

Otherwise Paul would be saying that all women (in general) are subject to all men (in general). That is clearly not the case!


Similarly, look at Paul's writings in 1 Corinthians 14:34-35:

34 ¶ Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Again, the Greek word for woman is 'Gune' or wife as it was above in 1 Tim. 2:11 above. This makes perfect sense because Paul says specifically in verse 35 that they should ask their own husbands. So, here the word "women" is plural referring to all wives and the word "husbands" is plural referring to all husbands.

Most of this has to do with the authority that is resident in man as God's natural order and that most people will still receive from a man when they might not receive from a women, due to some of the ways these doctrines have been applied. It is a shame that what Paul may have meant to only be used at the time to correct a "localized" situation has become engrained into being something which affects women in ministry in the here and the now.

I personally believe that if there is no man who is willing or able to do the job, then a woman certainly should fill that position and do the work of the ministry. It's better to have a woman in a position and the work of the Lord be done rather than have an empty position.

It is the fruit that identifies the ‘root.’ There are many men who claim to be pastors but have no fruit. They are not in their gifting. And there are women who claim to be pastors and are not. But, there are both men and women who have the fruit of a true pastoral calling in their life. If people are being fed and spiritually cared for and edified by a man or a woman, then that person is a pastor. There is the fruit to prove it.

The bottom line is, Paul instructed us that we each are members in particular of the body of Christ. He also told us that in Christ there is neither male nor female.

Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the
knowledge of God and our Lord Jesus Christ (2 Peter 1:2)
 
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J C said:
My denomination ordained the first female minister in the country back in the 1800s. They also led to the establishment of numerous HBCUs throughout the south after the Civil War. Our current pastor is a female and I have no problem with her in that capacity. Since the Armistad case, my denomination has been in the forefront of equal treatment of all people regardless of race, gender or economic status. I believe our mission is carrying out the teachings of Jesus Christ and not man. Each his own!
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Are you speaking of Antoinette Brown Blackwell?

What is you "denomination"


Note: The key to understanding the scriptures, is to research and study the scriptures in the original languages; Greek and Hebrew. If this simple task is done, then folks would know the qualifications of a Bishop / Preacher and Deacons. This would eliminate some of the foolishness being preached from the pulpit and being taught by men that are not qualified to teach.

It's interesting how folks say God this and that; Jesus, this and that. However, when it comes to "female preachers" they are now telling God, "you are wrong" women can preach fro the pulpit.
 
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Dr H.. said:
Are you speaking of Antoinette Brown Blackwell?

What is you "denomination"


Note: The key to understanding the scriptures, is to research and study the scriptures in the original languages; Greek and Hebrew. If this simple task is done, then folks would know the qualifications of a Bishop / Preacher and Deacons. This would eliminate some of the foolishness being preached from the pulpit and being taught by men that are not qualified to teach.

It's interesting how folks say God this and that; Jesus, this and that. However, when it comes to "female preachers" they are now telling God, "you are wrong" women can preach fro the pulpit.
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United Church of Christ (Congregational). I grew up in a Baptist Church founded by my great grandfather in 1869.
 
 
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