Faith, Belief, Logic, Illogic,,, etc.
My scenarios don't conflict with each other, they compliment each other.
All Previous Scenarios = Christian's recognize that God can help them to live right, we should find out what God says on a particular subject and agree with that, 3) We Fall Down - We get up, We Fall down - We get Up, We Fall down - We get up ?..a Saint is one who sins (like a sinner) but who also is forgiven of all their sins 100%. We're not perfect, hence Jesus, but you'll be able to tell a tree by it's fruit in due time. Christians' lives aren't perfect, just forgiven, and I'm not saying that this fact gives anyone a license to sin.
I believe that's what my scenarios said but copy / paste pieces of my post that contradict.
Don't concure. The bottom line you come to is the same thing that was said in your "scenario 2". The difference is, I'm saying that these things will happen. You said in effect, no they won't happen if you just have God. That is obviously wrong. Rather you have God are not, these things happen. You then acknowledged that, but then you went to the take that, well, if you have God, you will be saved despight them happening. I would not argue what your religious doctrine teaches.
Uhhhh??I pretty much just disagree.
Yes, I know the feeling!
We're not justifying sinning. We're agreeing with God that our 'sinning' is Forgiven. Re-read my previous post.
Yes, but who says that if that is understood, people don't go on and do things, BUT apply this same religous understanding? That's what i'm talking about when I say, this is the same as your senario 2.
Various religions mixed with our human logic? That was Plan A. We've tried that in society / are trying that now in society and look at where it's gotten this world.
We have tried religion also. Look where the single-minded region thinking has gotten us? Not to mention world conflicts and wars and such. Don't concure there.
God says the first rule of sex is to "wait until you're married."
no, that's what man has said over the eons, but ok.
People say, use a little of religion or what Gods says and then Mixes that with their own common sense. What does their common sense say???
?.don't wait til your married, just use a condom.
?.think about the other person's feelings (call next morning)
?.have sex before you're married as long as it's just with your 'significant other.'
Maybe that's what your logic said in the past before you were saved. Maybe some other people's logic says, if you have sex, chances are you are going to bring a pregnancy into the situation. Maybe some other people's logic says, I can't afford taking a chance and having a kid right now, so I better not even go there. Maybe some other people's logic says, if I have sex, there are going to be mental ties that I will have to deal with and i'm just not ready for that, so ain't no need in me even bothering with it. Maybe some other people's logic says, why lie to this person for sex? Maybe when both parties are confronted with the "have sex with significant other", someone, male or female, logically surmises that the potential psychological/emotional, physical and spiritual (if applicable) risks are not worth it.
It's time for Plan B. Instead of relying on various human logics mixed everyone's opinions about sex, the bible tells us to "adopt the mind of Christ". Why not listen to the Manufacturer when uses His creation?
Because we have been listening since Eve and Adam partook and we still make bad decisions. Logic can't do no worse than religion mixed with humans who can twist religion to suit their own minds and justify their deeds.
Bartram's Logic = "we're going to get married one day anywayz, so let's do it.
Sally's Logic = "He told me He loved me, I'm ready."
Jeff's Logic = "God gave me all this testosterone, I have sex a lot but God knows my heart"
Willie's Logic = "I'll just use protection to be safe"
God's Logic = "The only safe sex is marriage. Sex is ordained for husbands and wives to take part in for pleasure / children"
WHY in the world would we 'mix' human logic with God's Word, knowing that the above exactly describes human Logic? Don't you see the problem with "human logic"?
If you touch a hot iron, it will burn you. Fact. No extra logic needed. If you want to take part in sex, do it God's way. No extra logic needed. You MAY get burned.
You would have to agree that even in the cases where God's way is understood thoroughly, it still happens, which you acknowledged, but you then said, yeah, but your sins are forgiven. Maybe logic can help at that moment of weakness even with those who have a thorough understanding and are about to make a bad decision. Again, in your examples of logic above, you suggest the worst case. I would suggest the best case. I pointed out the worse cases of region-based decision making because I acknowledge, as do you, that religion is the ultimate right-wrong barometer and because you said if you simply have God, you won't do wrong. That's not true as we can see in every day life. Given your comments above, you say choose God's way. I say, if you are religious, you will choose God's way most of the time, but not all of the time, which is evident in everyday life. I say having simple logic (not the illogic that you point to in your vision of logic) of real world scenarios, worries, consequencies can do nothing but aid in making the right decision,,, but even at that, nobody can make the right decision everytime, but armed with religious foundations AND GOOD reasoning abilities,,, you should be in better shape than either alone.
I would suggest for anyone to except a logic basis other than God's & I wouldn't suggest blindly quoting anything. We just quote what God says in His Word, the Truth.
But that's precisely what you are doing here. I was born and raised in the church. We went to church religiously(no pun intended). All they said in church to the youth, even when they were going into adolescence was (,,,,, well,,,,, actually,,, they didn't say anything directly,,, but) praise God, don't act like that, it ain't right because God said so, talked about those who slipped up and basically emparted no logic or reasoning as to WHY kids should not get involved in sex! It was "too taboo" to talk about!
Ok,, so all us kids were baptised and we was all in the choir, we were all ushers, we were all active in church,, you name it, but we had about 40% of the females pregnant and having to come before the church crying,, blah, blah, blah,,,, and extrapolate that out to the guys who caused the pregnancy. The doctrine there was, "you do it because God said.". Well,,, maybe for adults who had some bad life experiences, that would be good enough, but that wasn't good enough for adolescence kids. Maybe if church leaders would have employed more rationale and logic mixed in with the discipline and ultimately true teachings of religion, some of those kids could have avoided getting involved in sex at such an early age, not been mothers and fathers foregoing college,, etc ad nausium.
correct. look at the young men and women used every year by people who just want sex from them, especially on college campuses. Come judgment day??you already know.
Huh? See, here I totally disagree. "look at the young mean and women USED every year by people who just want sex from them"? Mac, these people are no more used than me being used by my golf clubs when I go play golf! Everybody makes decisions. A conscious decision, by both parties, is made in the time up to performing the act rather you are religous, logical or not.
As I said earlier, with this being Plan A, we definitely need to resort to a Plan B.
No, that's not Plan A; that may have be what you see as "plan A". I see logic, (not the illogic that you keep pointing out in your examples) as a human trait that's used in everyday life.
