dacontinent
Preacher
Actually, God did that back in the Garden of Eden.
Who can set foot in your pulpit?
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Actually, God did that back in the Garden of Eden.
dacontinent
Preacher
You are far better than I if you can tell what the scriptures SHOULD say. Here is what they do say:
1 Tim 3:1-9
3:1 Pist?s ho l?gos E?-tis episkope?s or?getai kalo? ?rgou epithume?
2 De? o?n t?n ep?skopon anep?leempton e?nai mi?s gunaik?s ?ndra neef?lion so?frona k?smion fil?xenon didaktik?n
3 me? p?roinon me? ple?kteen all? epieike? ?machon afil?rguron
4 to? id?ou o?kou kalo?s proist?menon t?kna ?chonta en hupotage? met? p?sees semn?teetos
5 Ei d? tis to? id?ou o?kou proste?nai ouk o?den po?s ekklees?as Theo? epimele?setai
6 me? ne?futon h?na-me? tufoothe?s eis kr?ma emp?see to? diab?lou
7 De? d? ka? martur?an kale?n ?chein ap? to?n ?xoothen h?na me? eis oneidism?n emp?see ka? pag?da to? diab?lou
8 Diak?nous hoosa?toos semno?s me? dil?gous me? o?noo pollo? pros?chontas me? aischrokerde?s
9?chontas t? muste?rion te?s p?steoos en kathar? suneide?sei
It's just what I said in my previous post on this passage.
docmump
The Arch Nemesis
Name or rename?
I believe his question was who gave the authority for man to RENAME not name.
HA! Man you crazy!
like most people here can read that, you might as well be doing that shok shok talk
people call speaking in "tongues".
I gotta go back and read what's your stance on this topic.
I hope it lines up with the Bible.
dacontinent
Preacher
Well, renaming IS naming. Besides, do you really think God cares whether the name of the local church is Cool Breeze Church or Cool Breeze Center or Cool Breeze Fellowship or Cool Breeze Ministries or Cool Breeze Body of Christ or Cool Breeze Baptised Believers or Cool Breeze Assembly or Cool Breeze Worshippers or Cool Breeze Christians United or Cool Breeze ___________? Hardly. Jesus is more likely to have said something closer to "ekklesia" since church is an English word.I believe (and I may be alone) that God is much more concerned for us BEING the Church than about what we call our gatherings.
dacontinent
Preacher
It is a tongue: Greek. It is the source that those English guys translated from.
Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever
It is unscriptural to believe that God changes for some reason
You know how people say many many times ?It is what it is?
This is an incorrect statement and is usually said when the person knows inside
That they are doing something wrong. ?It is what is written? because
"Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away." Matthew 24:35.
Once you get an understanding about how even the righteous among us will barely
Make it in, you?ll take more of an active role in your Study of the word.
Don?t let someone study for you. Too much is at stake to blindly follow.
dacontinent
Preacher
I know you can. This is not the first time we have addressed this subject together.
OK Right and Greek is a language, tongue means language.
This shok shok talk that some people do in church is not a language,
God wouldn't even want someone trying to spead His word with some
nonsense no one could understand. I'm versed in Greek and Latin
but others here may not be, so you may want to stick to English
dacontinent
Preacher
I tried that, included a grammar refresher, and Dr. H wanted more. So...I gave it to him (and anyone else who can interpret Greek or has access to the tools to do so).
As for tongues in church ... I have too many instances of dialects of people groups from Africa, Eastern Europe, and Asia being spoken in our services when visitors from those regions were in attendance to join you in your stance. That is why Paul says that it would be barbaric to do so without an interpreter. Then there are unknown tongues where an individual speaks to God and not a message to the congregation.
Those are probably topics for a different thread.
BLAQUE PRINCE
Fug <insert your school here>!
You cannot rename something that did not have a name to begin with. God didn't name the animals so Adam was not renaming them. No one was given permission to rename the church to anything else except church. A translation is not renaming.
Furthermore there is a difference between the name on the street sign out in front of the church and adhering to a particular denomination. This is another area where people try to blur the actual topic at hand in order to make the bible work with their stance.
BLAQUE PRINCE
Fug <insert your school here>!
Well according to some...He is the same today and tomorrow until He doesn't agree with you. For instance when this issue of female pastors came up before someone said that God saw that men weren't doing their part and made a change to get the job done. The scripture you quoted is what assures us that being found faithful on that day will not be for nothing. But once again we erode the whole foundation with our arguments to suit ourselves.
dacontinent
Preacher
I totally concur.
Again, I do agree. I'm just not aware of anyone renaming the church to something else. Hence, my reference to the various labels that are used by congregations without the use of the word "church" in the name. Perhaps I misunderstood your point. Please clarify what renaming the church means to you. He'p me out. I want to understand.
I do understand the first sentence. The second one baffles me a little because unless you are saying that the word "church" needs to be in the name of every church organization. I don't think I agree with that particular position, but I would be hard pressed to identify some scripture to support either side. Again, I need you to he'p me with this one.
Peace.
BLAQUE PRINCE
Fug <insert your school here>!
You may have missed the original post that I was quoting when making the statement about renaming. Fortitude I believe it was said something to the effect of not calling a church a church so that a woman could pastor. I'm saying you cannot call it anything else because that is a part of its form...and in this case the renaming is in an attempt to change the form anyway. I don't believe in this case it was as simple as the name not appearing on the sign.
What I was meaning by the second sentence in the last paragraph is that when the argument about denominations and their validity comes up people tend to stray and argue about the name on a sign rather than the form that a particular denomination follows. For instance someone may argue that it doesn't matter if the sign out front says Mormon or Baptist though this is not the issue at hand. We know well that what goes on in the ranks of Mormons and Baptists can be quite different and THAT is the issue. But people quickly trivialize it back down to a name as if we are all doing the same things.
docmump
The Arch Nemesis
Well then what's next?
Giving the tenth is not the Tithe?
Being Submerged is not being Baptized?
Taking the bread and the wine is not the Communion?
I just think we are playing on a slippery slope when it comes to worship. The Bible called it a Church, I think we should call it that too.
But you are correct: "I believe (and I may be alone) that God is much more concerned for us BEING the Church than about what we call our gatherings."
Of course.
Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.?Matt. 18:20
Fortitude
Sybarite
That ain't hard hell, it ain't that many MEN at church anyway! Truth.
seems like alot of "church going" men on this board though
Fortitude
Sybarite
U funny. I've got 2 in-depth investigations going on at work & in each situation it "men w/issues." :lol:
Most true, Mama!!! They can & do act the biggest bitties. :tup: :nod:
I ain't concerned about squat; I like my churhc. I'm asking YOU questions because I want YOUR response. I do what God leads me to do and care NOT about titles or positions. I care NOT to lead ANYONE anywhere. U must be tricked. Good, so if it's not a CHURCH but the word is still preached then it okay? <----- I'm asking a question. And I've SAID NOTHING about RENAMING anything. I'm saying if a female starts a fricking GROUP and calls it Bible Group can she be the leader and speaker and teacher of the said group?
:topic:
My mom and sister are minister and asst. pastor respectively at that churches.
And my question was WHAT WAS THE DIFFERENCE between the two. Simple question - no definition yet.
Extraneously serious. If you have a definition of each please share.
Fortitude
Sybarite
First: I care NOT.
Secondly: "Alot?" You might want to count again.
BLAQUE PRINCE
Fug <insert your school here>!
Tricked?...
concerned
1 a: anxious, worried <concerned for their safety> b: interested <concerned to prove the point>
Entry b is what I meant by concerned so you can save that.
I will ask again. Are you interested in women speaking or holding leadership positions? What word is being preached if it is not concerning the church and how are you not renaming something if you said you will "call" it something else besides church? How can you do what God leads you to do and not care about the word He has given you to follow? I am puzzled by the contradictions and hope you would care to enlighten me.
You see women teach Sunday school every Sunday at the congregations that I attend (which are the same ones that Dr. H attends). Some have women's bible study...lead by women. Some have women that head up ministries such as benevolence. You see I'm trying to understand exactly what area of participation for women you are concerned with. Nothing has to be renamed/called something besides church for women to be active here. I have seen alot of folk say things like "women can't do anything in the Church of Christ" but then I got to their church and the only things I see different are women reading the announcements and ushering. Are these the things that are so important? Once again I am just trying to understand.
So I am asking YOU just what is it that you feel women should be doing. There is a difference between reading announcements, spreading the word, teaching Sunday school, and taking on the responsibility of leading souls. The bible clearly states the qualifications for the last position and no one here has shown any clear evidence to the contrary. Clear evidence is not "your daughters will prophecy" because the gift of prophecy does not a bishop, elder, or deacon make. As I said before clearly it is shown that prophecy is a spiritual gift that anyone in the congregation could have received and never does it say these people should hold an office in the church. So if your concern is with women having their own congregation for lack of better terminology then by what biblical basis do you support that stance? If you are not talking about forming this "group" based on the guidelines given to us in the bible then what guidelines are you following. I think that is all that everyone with an opposing view is asking.
Dr H..
Active Member
There is a difference between Preaching in the pulpit "The Minister / Leadership" for the entire congregation and leading a womens bible study. In Pauls letter to Titus, he points out the responsibility of women. Is that a form of leadership, definately so. However, that does not authorize a woman to preach from the pulpit, teach men or use the title of Bishop, Preacher, Minister, Elder or Deacon.
All people has to do is look at the qualifications God outlined and stop arguing with God.
Looking at Timothy and Titus, plese explain how can anyone get a Female Bishop" from the qualification as they are outlined.
When was it possible for a woman to be the husband of one wife and rule his house?
All people has to do is look at the qualifications God outlined and stop arguing with God.
Looking at Timothy and Titus, plese explain how can anyone get a Female Bishop" from the qualification as they are outlined.
When was it possible for a woman to be the husband of one wife and rule his house?
dacontinent
Preacher
Thanks for clearing that up for me. I'm with you.
dacontinent
Preacher
Within the context of Christendom, preaching is forthtelling the good news of the Kingdom of God.
Evangelism is preaching and other forms of ministry for the express purpose of winning the hearer/receiver to Christ and bringing them into the Kingdom.
Not all preaching is evangelism. I dare say that most preaching is not evangelistic. Far more is "...for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness : that the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." 2 Tim 3:16-17
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