Who can set foot in your pulpit?
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CEE DOG
Well-Known Member
I am not against female leaders in the church, but I happen to read this last week in the bible and thought about this topic. What are your thoughts on this preachers? I am curious. I also realize God used the ladies at the grave for a reason.
1 Corinthians 14:34-35 (New International Version)
34 women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says.
35 If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.
1 Corinthians 14:34-35 (New International Version)
34 women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says.
35 If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.
MsJag4Jag
Moderator
Who do they ask if they don't have husbands?
Also, I KNOW I AM NOT A PREACHER, but I believe that scripture was referring to the women in THAT church at THAT time...read the whole chapter!
docmump
The Arch Nemesis
This one is easy... "Her role in the church is the same as the man's role in the church." The hard question is what is man's role in the church?
I will tell you. Jesus told us to go out and evangelize and that is what we must to. (Matt 28:19-20).
There is a difference in evangelizing and preaching the word of God. Everybody is called to evangelize but not to preach the gospel.. Once we understand that, we will get it.
docmump
The Arch Nemesis
Co-Sign...
Fortitude
Sybarite
Sensei, what is the difference between envangelizing and preaching?
CriTAUcal
Do Good; Good Follows
The only difference is location. One is on a pulpit; the other is outside the walls of the church.
People get hung up on pulpits when they need to be worried about reaching souls and actually living the life they preach about. There are men (and women, too) out there who ain't got no business in anybody's pulpit.
People get hung up on pulpits when they need to be worried about reaching souls and actually living the life they preach about. There are men (and women, too) out there who ain't got no business in anybody's pulpit.
Dr H..
Active Member
Gal/ 3:28 - has nothing to do with Church Leadership (Preachers, Elders, Deacons). Paul, is saying to the body od beleivers, in Christ there are no racial lines. Any man (n) in Christ is brother, and I dont care about the color of his skin. Don't care if he owns his own land or a worker for the owner.
Amen & amen
Are you talking about the "Congregation" however, in Titus, Paul outlines the some of the responsibilities of men and women.
I am waiting for someone to show the Book, Chapter and Verse, that states the qualification of a woman can be a Bishop, Pastor, Preacher.
There is a difference in evangelizing and preaching the word of God. Everybody is called to evangelize but not to preach the gospel.. Once we understand that, we will get it.
Yes, there is a difference...
If they do not have a husband. The preacher should be knowledgeable enough to answer most questions. When I have a question, I ask the preacher or research it for myself.
I am not against women in a leadership role in the church. However, they as some men have to remain in their place. I know some men that are great singers, but they cannot preach or teach. I am a "good" teacher and preacher, but I cannot lead songs. That's not my gift, therefore I have to stay within my designates role.
Fortitude
Sybarite
I don't know about all that sweetie considering you didn't do a good job in teaching me the difference between preaching and evangelizing.
BLAQUE PRINCE
Fug <insert your school here>!
And this is what people keep skipping right over in favor of spiritual gifts that don't discriminate by gender. If you look in the new testament you can see where anyone and everyone in the congregation could receive spiritual gifts but no where does it say this places them in the role of church leadership which is whats in question.
Fortitude
Sybarite
So, a woman can preach as long as she does not do so in a church nor is she to try to LEAD a church? Is she able to start her own GROUP and preach to them as well as lead them as long as she does not call her establishment a "church" if so, sounds easy enough.
Now you know alot of people do not follow the
New Testament. They even call their giving to the the
church "tithing", so you should already expect that the rules for the establishment of the church wouldn't
always be followed.
dacontinent
Preacher
Read those passages that I noted, particularly Romans 16. The Bible is not chauvinistic as most believe it to be.
As I have presented in these forums before, there were plenty of women who ministered in churches as apostles and under apostolic authority in the first century. It is the Gnostics who were rebuked and disallowed to minister as women. Read the book and do a little research. It is amazing what you can find.
dacontinent
Preacher
1 Timothy Chapter 3 is as plain is the noses on our faces.
In 1 Timothy 2:11, "gunee" is the Greek term specifically used for wife. It was used to address the problem of women shouting questions and comments across the congregation during the worship time and being disruptive. This was a by-product of the Gnostics and Paul addressed it in response to Timothy's questions. [Stop disrupting the speaker and ask your husband when you get home.] In 1 Timothy 3:3 "gunaikos" is used instead and is gender-neutral. "Eitis", in verse 1, is also gender neutral. So are "episkopees" (v.1) and "episkopon" (v.2). Consequently, the translation of the passage in English follows the English rules of grammer when referring to someone objectively in the third person and takes the masculine form. In v.8 "diakonous" is the same way and means "pastor and teacher". The same gender-neutral writing is used in Ephesians 4:11 with apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers.
So, it really is all there and not chauvinistic at all.
MsJag4Jag
Moderator
I think the chauvinistic view is that she can not be OVER a man........:xeye::lmao:
dacontinent
Preacher
Let's be real for a minute. Pastoring is a real grind - physically, mentally, and emotionally. Very few women have the werewithal to sustain it through the transitions of life. Women are made differently from men for a reason. One of my friends used to say, "There are several days in a month when a woman just ain't fit to pastor anyone." While that might sound sexist, there is some truth to it with women as a whole ... not that we don't have our issues as men.
Now, the Gnostics were quite different. These were very aggressive women who shaved their heads (looking like men), changed their dress (looking like men), and took over (usurped) authority in some of the early churches. Yes, feminism was a problem in the early church. Why did it arise?
Initially because there were a number of women with giftings that were suppressed in their expression. Feeling stifled, they began to assert themselves a bit, found an audience, and then ego and greed took over their spirits and they had a bunch of mess in the church. Sound familiar?
When we understand that the giftings to the Body have need of expression throughout the Body and we embrace those giftings, the Church will flourish as never before.
MsJag4Jag
Moderator
I understand your view. I really, really do. Naw it does not sound familiar to me. I just think that God can choose whom HE sees fit to lead his people.
CriTAUcal
Do Good; Good Follows
That's a B.S. statement. I'm glad that you recognize that ya'll have issues as well. Because some men act like they bleed once a month EVERY month like clockwork! And let's not talk about delicate egos and insecurities that some men tend to have.
A woman can preach, teach AND lead a church with God's backing.
BLAQUE PRINCE
Fug <insert your school here>!
Are ya'll concerned about the simple act of speaking or actually holding an official leadership role (elder, deacon) in the church? If you simply wish to speak then speak and tell everyone about God, you don't have to be a leader to do that. Tony Snow spoke for the white house but he wasn't the president. And I don't understand how you seek to lead something that you don't even agree with anyway.
And if you don't call it a church then its not a church. Who gave anyone on this Earth the authority to rename what God has created?
BLAQUE PRINCE
Fug <insert your school here>!
Exactly. Its like folk love to say "Christ died for me..." but don't have a clue what He actually died for and continue to do things as if He didn't.
I will hopefully be back to address the other posts around lunch.
Dr H..
Active Member
Fortitude
I only agreed that there was a difference between preaching and evangelizing.
Dac.
?The Bible is not chauvinistic as most believe it to be.?
That?s true. The problem is people want to do as they please. The bible is clear on the role of every church member. I am still waiting on someone to explain why they accept certain parts of the bible and reject other parts. ]
The only teaching a person can draw from 1 Tim. Are:
A. GENERAL QUALIFICATIONS...
1. They describe what an bishop 'must be' - 1 Ti 3:2; Ti 1:7
2. A bishop must be 'a man' - 1 Ti 3:1-2; Ti 1:6; cf. 1 Ti
2:11,12; 1 Co 14:34-37
3. A bishop must be 'blameless'- 1 Ti 3:2; Ti 1:6,7
a. One against whom no evil charge can be sustained
b. Free from accusations that can be rightly proven - 1 Ti
5:19-20
B. FAMILIAL QUALIFICATIONS...
1. The husband of one wife (i.e., married) - 1 Ti 3:1; Ti 1:6
2. Ruling his own house well - 1 Ti 3:4-5
3. Having faithful children, not accused of dissipation or
insubordination - Ti 1:6
C. SPECIFIC POSITIVE QUALIFICATIONS...
Yes, it is plain as the noise on our face. No where in this scripture does it indicate that a female can preach. So, women can stand in the pulpit and call themselves Bishop, Preachers etc. In the eyes of God they are not.
Again -
My question is point out the Book Chapter and Verse that outlines the qualification of female Bishops / Preachers.
It should read: If a woman desire the office of a bishop, the she desire a good work, the wife of one husband, etc, etc, etc.
I only agreed that there was a difference between preaching and evangelizing.
Dac.
?The Bible is not chauvinistic as most believe it to be.?
That?s true. The problem is people want to do as they please. The bible is clear on the role of every church member. I am still waiting on someone to explain why they accept certain parts of the bible and reject other parts. ]
The only teaching a person can draw from 1 Tim. Are:
A. GENERAL QUALIFICATIONS...
1. They describe what an bishop 'must be' - 1 Ti 3:2; Ti 1:7
2. A bishop must be 'a man' - 1 Ti 3:1-2; Ti 1:6; cf. 1 Ti
2:11,12; 1 Co 14:34-37
3. A bishop must be 'blameless'- 1 Ti 3:2; Ti 1:6,7
a. One against whom no evil charge can be sustained
b. Free from accusations that can be rightly proven - 1 Ti
5:19-20
B. FAMILIAL QUALIFICATIONS...
1. The husband of one wife (i.e., married) - 1 Ti 3:1; Ti 1:6
2. Ruling his own house well - 1 Ti 3:4-5
3. Having faithful children, not accused of dissipation or
insubordination - Ti 1:6
C. SPECIFIC POSITIVE QUALIFICATIONS...
Yes, it is plain as the noise on our face. No where in this scripture does it indicate that a female can preach. So, women can stand in the pulpit and call themselves Bishop, Preachers etc. In the eyes of God they are not.
Again -
My question is point out the Book Chapter and Verse that outlines the qualification of female Bishops / Preachers.
It should read: If a woman desire the office of a bishop, the she desire a good work, the wife of one husband, etc, etc, etc.
docmump
The Arch Nemesis
Are you serious or just joking?
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