To be a Christian do you have to believe in witchcraft?

[JayRob]

[*]I believe the scriptures. A biblical position is all I need in order to obey it. Let me say this again, if there is a clear biblical position on a given subject, I will do my best to simply follow that position. Those who do not yield themselves to the Holy Spirit are being led by evil forces. It is quite simple. I did not need any evidence in order to obey.
You believe science. You hold onto scientific discovery #1 until scientific discovery #2 comes along. You then deliberate on whether to switch positions. The process continues throughout your life.

There you have it folks from his own mouth. Faith over FACTS. This reminds me of Christians who once believed the sun revolved around the earth with NO evidence. They even had the nerve to threaten death upon those who believed otherwise.
Galileo on the other hand, through scientific evidence, proved that the Earth revolved around the sun. The types of attitudes by some Christians and their rejection of scientific revelation is no different.

[*]Quantum physics is a fabulous study, but it is not spiritual at all. Unfortunately, you have conceived that spirits are about energy forces. Spirits can USE energy, but they are not energy themselves.

What are spirits then if they're not composed of energy? Present evidence please.
You need to look up the Greek word dynamo from Acts 1:8. Even the bible knows what the word "power" means. It means "energy".

[*]Your ignorance of God is showing, but was understood from the beginning.

Yes, I am ignorant of the biblical god. Why? Because he doesn't exist and never will. He only exists in the minds of people who believe the bible. He's merely a form and plagiarized copy of previous gods such as Horus, Zeus, Krishna, Mithra and dozens of others who came before him.

You don't appreciate the scriptures and that is your choice. In order to judge one has to understand the laws affected, realize the standards and why they exist, and hear/see what is presented to address the issue. Then, consider what is presented and make an informed decision.

You're right, I don't appreciate biblical laws ordering rape, murder, theft, abuse of women, child abuse, lying, torture, violence, slavery, etc.
You want to talk about judging and justice, then how in the heck is it JUST for a man to be tortured in fire for eternity when in fact he's only lived 80 years or less? What kind of nonsensical justice is that?
If you were judge, I wonder if you'd have a problem ordering such a penalty. That penalty is neither just, nor moral nor ethical. Anyone who believes such is not fit to rightly and justly judge so much as a flea.

[*]Your ignorance of evil also shows. If all things which are of an evil orientation presented themselves as evil, then conscienable people would never become involved in them.

By their fruits you'll know them. A person can know over a period of time whether or not a person is genuine based on their history.
On the other hand, you seem to judge people before knowing anything about them simply because an ancient book orders you to.
And to think we're supposed to be living in a more advanced and intelligent society. That kind of thinking sets us back thousands of years.

[*]You cannot measure the nature of a person changing, but you can certainly follow the proof in the behavior and qualify the results. When things occur in a person's life that did not occur before, evidence is presented that could only have been gained through supernatural means, and those elements fall in line with conformance with the scriptures, scientists don't have to be able to measure it. The evidence is there through cause and effect. That is how we know the EVIDENCE of the Holy Spirit.

Again, all you have is some command from a man-made religion not to do such and such. No evidence, no nothing to support that command.

There are mediums that do nothing but good for others time and time again. You obviously don't care about that. You're so focused on the term "medium" while neglecting to consider the kinds of fruit they're producing. Why? Only because your bible tells you too.
Is that fair? No. Is that ethical? No. Is that moral? No.
It matters not to you if they bear good fruit. You've already made up your mind that no matter what they do, their fruits are evil. This preconceived attitude is what makes a person look ignorant and not well-versed on the subject of mediumship.

[*]I have not read a single posting of yours identifying scientific research or evidence of spirit of any kind. Not one. Have the researchers been able to identify the influence by which their subjects were inspired? It is the source of that inspiration that determines its value as good or evil.

Have you found out what influences them or are you merely GUESSING at it?
This tells me that you have no idea what mediums do. They're given the gift of making contact with spirits of human beings. The human spirit doesn't die. Even the bible knows that much. The spirit simply takes on another dimension. It has nothing to do with anything evil. It has to do with communicating with humans on a different frequency or wavelength, that's all there is to it. Your bible teaches nothing about this because it knows nothing about this.
This is what modern science has discovered and proven. This is the same evidence I disclosed to you, but it's seeming going over your head because you're not well-versed enough and you refuse to be.

You take for granted that mediums are evil. You take for granted that they don't do good. You take for granted that your bible is right. All you have to support such opinions are what? Nothing.

I will continue to point out scientific evidence. You can accept and become more knowledgeable or you can reject it and remain in the state that you're in, a state of unnecessary fear. It's strictly up to you.

Have you personally encountered evil spirits? Voodoo? Santeria? Have you watched people picked up and thrown about a room without another human touching them or flexing of their own muscles? What did you do about it? In what state did you leave the person? Yes, I did have faith and believed God in those situations, casting demons out of those persons. I am able to live and walk with those people now with them having their full faculties, free from torment. I have offered you the opportunity to speak to my evidence before. I can still hook you up.

I'm sure eveyone has seen such, but what does that prove? It simply proves that there are such things as evil spirits that can take over a person if that person is not careful. This certainly doesn't mean that the entire spiritual realm is evil.

Mediums who are experienced in such matters are able to discern positive energy versus negative energy.
You stated earlier that spirits are not energy. Well if they're not, how do they take over a person's mind? How do they make objects move? It takes a powerful energy to take over a person's mind, to move huge objects, etc.

True mediums are able to guide others away from the negative energies that are present, thus saving many from possible harm. Some ministers can't do what mediums do and most ministers have no inkling regarding the positive and negative spirit entities.

People who don't pray to god are able to deliver some who have been taken over by evil entities. I'll say this again. "Non-religious people can and do deliver people from evil spirits that had once upon a time taken over their mind. HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THAT? IF SATAN CAST OUT SATAN, HOW CAN HIS KINGDOM STAND?

[*]Knowing that a spirit is evil does not give you power over it. What you fail to receive is that evil spirits can be affable and inviting, too.

What do you mean, "what I fail to receive?" I already know that much about evil spirits. Not all spirits are evil nevertheless, people need to be careful when consulting with mediums because some are frauds, just like ministers. Learning to control evil can be learned both by non-religious and religious folks. No one has a monopoly in this area.

[*]Christians (pick a flavor) do not channel spirits. All mediums / necromancers / spirits operate under the control of evil.

Again, another ignorant statement by someone who has no earthly idea what he's talking about; doesn't provide evidence to support his theory and is just mimicking what's said in a book written by 2-4,000 year old nomadic tribesmen who copied it from other religions. This is the extent of your "evidence".

[*]I have had personal encounters with many mediums of several disciplines over the last 30 years. I would number them about 30-35. How many do you have experience with?

Did you prove that they were ALL evil? I'm sure you didn't and you can't. That's only your opinion, nothing more, nothing less.

We've come to the end of another one of your postings and guess what? YOU'VE YET TO PROVE ANY OF YOUR POSTINGS. NOTHING.

 

[dacontinent]

• Faith over facts. Thanks for the compliment. While it is humbling, I will wear it as a badge of honor.
• Spirits are persons who USE energy. Energy has not personality of its own. Acts 1;8 uses the Greek word dunamis => ability. It has no reference to energy while dynamo, a word derived from dunamis, does refer to energy.
• We don't want justice, JayRob. Eternal torment would be justice. What we want is mercy and favor. It is available to us for the asking.
• I am quite well-versed with mediums. I have experience with 30+ mediums, taking nothing for granted. Many of them never did anyone any active harm. Several had no idea that they were being controlled by an evil spirit until that spirit was commanded to leave them and the spirit(s) rebuffed. Others were violent, wreckless, and thrashing. Those 30+ humans were freed and as best I know they remain free today. What are your experiences with mediums? I continue to offer you epirical evidence to examine and interview for yourself. To this point you have declined.
• I am fascinated that the links that you posted of the knowledgeable modern scientist merely substantiate the 4000 year-old writings of those "ignorant nomads" that spirits live beyond the grave; but the knowledgable modern scientists cannot identify or isolate a spirit. To this point the ignorant nomads are still ahead but you still don't believe them.
• Since you are convinced that everyone has encountered Voodoo, Santeria, ... witchcraft experiences, would you like to take a TSPN poll to substantiate that?
• The great lie of evil spirits is that they can be controlled outside the power of God. Satan doesn't cast out Satan; those spirits merely transfer. It is a great deception that entraps many; most of them when they no longer have resistance enough to get away.

 

[JayRob]

[*]Faith over facts. Thanks for the compliment. While it is humbling, I will wear it as a badge of honor.

Two birds in the bush is not worth one in the hand and the above statement is no better.

[*]Spirits are persons who USE energy. Energy has not personality of its own. Acts 1;8 uses the Greek word dunamis => ability. It has no reference to energy while dynamo, a word derived from dunamis, does refer to energy.

In that case, then your holy spirit is NOT a person, it's merely energy.

[*]We don't want justice, JayRob. Eternal torment would be justice. What we want is mercy and favor. It is available to us for the asking.

Sounds like a lunatic. This is how one allows religion to totally distance him from reality. It's merciful and loving to torture a person eternally in fire?! The worst thing I've ever heard.

[*]I am quite well-versed with mediums. I have experience with 30+ mediums, taking nothing for granted. Many of them never did anyone any active harm. Several had no idea that they were being controlled by an evil spirit until that spirit was commanded to leave them and the spirit(s) rebuffed. Others were violent, wreckless, and thrashing. Those 30+ humans were freed and as best I know they remain free today. What are your experiences with mediums? I continue to offer you epirical evidence to examine and interview for yourself. To this point you have declined.

Uhh Dacon, there are thousands and thousands of mediums. You have some arrogance comparing an experience of only 30 out of thousands of mediums.
There are several ministers who are wreckless and violent who are Christian. Did you leave them out of the equation?

It's ashamed that you continue to try and prop up your religion while demeaning the validated experiences of others. You have no supporting research to prove anything that you've said.
I'm not one to simply take the word of a person who freely makes the claim that eternal torment is justice. To be frank, that sounds more demonic and evil than anything I've ever heard anywhere. Satanists don't wish that on their worst enemies.

By the way, personal experiences is not empirical evidence, so please don't try that with me. It's certainly not evidence based on research.

For instance, were the mediums you referred to fraudulent? Did they know what they were doing? Were the "possessed" victims on drugs or delusional or schizophrenic or mentally ill in other ways?
Did you interview mediums who have successfully removed negative spirits from people and places?
All you've posted are biased and subjective opinions. This is why you can't be taken seriously.
I've certainly never made the claim that Christian ministers can't remove evil spirits, neither have I claimed that non-Christians can't either, but you have.
Non-religious folks have caused negative spirits to depart time and time again. Based on their writings and experiences, what you claimed to have seen and done is not unusual and shows that no one group has a monopoly on erradicating evil spirits. For you to make such a claim is a lie, plain and simple.

As far as my experiences are concerned, I've had the honesty and objectivity to study research-based evidence on the subject. I haven't accepted flawed claims of casting out evil spirits and it matters not whether I've cast out zero or a thousand. That's not the issue. The issue is can they be cast out by individuals other than those who call on the name of Jesus. The evidence says an emphatic YES they can.

You claimed that ALL mediums are evil. No matter how much experience you claim to have, making such a generalized statement against all mediums clearly tells me that you don't know as much as you think you do. It tells me that you're arrogant and willingly ignorant of the abilities of others who practice in this area.

[*]I am fascinated that the links that you posted of the knowledgeable modern scientist merely substantiate the 4000 year-old writings of those "ignorant nomads" that spirits live beyond the grave; but the knowledgable modern scientists cannot identify or isolate a spirit. To this point the ignorant nomads are still ahead but you still don't believe them.

Dude, the ignorant nomads copied from other sources, sources you all label as pagan. That's how they got their information. They stole it from previous cultures such as the Egyptians, Hittites, Babylonians, Assyrians and other cultures. They then called it their own.

As far as isolating a spirit, scientists and credible mediums have done so. You just don't know it. This was done several decades ago. I gave you the names of credible scientists who've witnessed individual spirits under experimental conditions.
You've offered nothing but an empty and biased opinion, but I'm supposed to gullibly believe you? I think not. I'd rather take evidence over subjective opinion.

[*]Since you are convinced that everyone has encountered Voodoo, Santeria, ... witchcraft experiences, would you like to take a TSPN poll to substantiate that?

Oh, NOW you want to take a poll? Why didn't you take a poll of 30 successful mediums versus your 30 unsuccessful mediums?

Most people have seen the influences of negative spirits and just didn't recognize it, whether on television, the news or in real life. They've seen television interviews of serial killers, rapists and murderers who may have been under the influence, but they may not have recognized it as such.

[*]The great lie of evil spirits is that they can be controlled outside the power of God. Satan doesn't cast out Satan; those spirits merely transfer. It is a great deception that entraps many; most of them when they no longer have resistance enough to get away.

How do you know that, out of the thousands of gods making the same claim as yours, how do you KNOW without a doubt that your god is the ONE true god of the universe? I challenge you to present your evidence.

Unless they're destroyed, ALL negative spirits transfer when they're aptly removed.
In the fictional Jesus story, didn't they transfer when he cast them out into swine? I don't recall him destroying ONE evil spirit, so evidently they went somewhere.

It matters not to you what successes mediums do. You have it locked in your subjective mind that ALL of them are evil and are up to no good.
You have no evidence to support such a notion, no scientific findings, no nothing, except an error-filled book people label as "holy". Nevertheless, you insist on holding on to that lie.

Have you taken a survey of ALL mediums to find out if ALL of them are evil? If not, then you have no idea, only "opinion'.