THE END TIMES PROPHECY!

[ROYAL BLUE]

But you said the OT and NT were the same, if that's true, therefore the laws did not change.

I didn't say they're the same, scripture states they are the same and I posted scripture to back it up. The new is a confirmation of the old. Nothing has changed because God doesn't change His word. Either man will accept it or not. My opinion does not matter. All that matters is that in which is written. If God stated the "OT" was changed by the "NT", please show it to me. I know that God will "NEVER" change His ways for man........NEVER. Man will either obey or be dealt with under the laws of God.

 

[Da Slim One]

This is the type of attitude that has divided our Christian brotherhood for so long. I know the Bible, and I try to live it as best that I can. I take God's word for what it is as printed in the Black, White, and Red of the Bible. I know that the Old Testament was a covenant that God made to his chosen people, the children of Isreal. (...and RB, I chose to use the word COULD for a reason.) The OT is littered with plenty of examples of how God used his might and strength to exact vengence on his enemies. However, he also showed compassion and mercy.....Thus my use of the word COULD, for in is own admittance, he is a Jealous God and will use whatever means necessary. God is a compassionate God who keeps his word and will smite all before his chosen people as long as they are doing what he requires of them.

The NT is the new convenant. No is does not cancel out the OT, but it does provide us new ways of getting to GOD. Does tha mean that he has changed? NO! It just means that he is showing us even more mercy and grace to allow us access to the Kingdom of Heaven. All that we have to do is profess that Jesus is our Lord and Savior.

As I look at our brotherhood I am disappointed in the number of denominations that we have out there. All this tells me is that there are plenty of different interpretations of God's intent of the bible. I don't agree with the teachings of many of them, but I will admit that most are abiding by the basic principles of our faith....The Father, The Son, and the Holy Ghost.

Yet, it sickens me to see people like yourself RB come on here and call others (like Dr. H) "SNAKES". What makes you the for most authority on how we should walk with God? What makes you the Judge and Jury to decide who is right and who is wrong? Who gives you the authority to pass judgement on your fellow brothers and sisters? To come on here and to discuss and enlighten is one thing, but to make some of the infuriating comments that you have made is just sad. Again, like I said before, anyone can hide behind scriptures. I can google the bible and find any scripture that I need to support my distinct beliefs in Christ, but what does that prove? Nothing other than you know how to find your way around the Bible.

No one controls our walk with God except for ourselves. If more of us understood this, then we wouldn't be in the shape that we are in. It is our responsibility to dive into the word for ourselves and to not have our beliefs determine by an idea for we are accountable for ourselves.

I wish that you weren't so defensive about what you perceive to be right, for you could possibly be missing out of what God may be trying to tell you.

 

[ROYAL BLUE]

Yet, it sickens me to see people like yourself RB come on here and call others (like Dr. H) "SNAKES". What makes you the for most authority on how we should walk with God? What makes you the Judge and Jury to decide who is right and who is wrong? Who gives you the authority to pass judgement on your fellow brothers and sisters?

If that's how you feel then you should go back to the very beginning of my posts and you'll see that I attacked no one, they attacked me and called me names. Did you not know this was happening? Did you not see that someone called me a messenger of Satan? Did not your dear Dr. H call me ignorant? You should learn to judge both sides before you make such bold statements. I don't attack people unless I'm attacked "FIRST." Go and read how I start threads and as soon as I share truth, watch the replies I get and tell me who was wrong. Until you do this, then come back and tell me who threw the first punch.

I know you don't think I'm gone take a beating without fighting back. That would be just plain stupidity on my part.

 

[Dr H..]

RB

First of all please understand that I am not your enemy, look at me as someone God has truly blessed with a tad bit of knowledge and I am still studying and trying to learn more and how to do it better.

Briefly, true I am ?suppose to obey the law of the land? according to Romans 13 as long as the laws don?t contradict God?s Law. The law was given to protect Christians / those that do right. Here is an example the Law of the Land does not see anything wrong with adultery, however God does. Therefore, I do not have to abide by the Law of the Land.

What you said about the ?sacrifices? is true. But, that was part of the O T. Remember ordnances and statues are the words that are interchangeable. Just as the word kingdom and body of Christ are interchangeable with the word Church.

You fail to understand that Old Testament law was given to the nation of Israel, not to Christians. The Laws of the OT is an expansion of the Ten Commandments (although there were over 500). They were divided major parts, 1. Prohibits Polytheism, 2. Band Idolatry 3. Forbids the Dishonoring God 4. Obligation to God and the final six Human relationships.

None of the Old Testament law applies to us today. When Jesus died on the cross, He put an end to the Old Testament law (Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:23-25; Ephesians 2:15). Yes there is a but and here it is.

?We are under the law of Christ (Galatians 6:2)

?Bear one another?s burdens, and so fulfill the Law of Christ?

Which is to, ?Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself. All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments? (Matthew 22:37-40).

Here is the kicker:

If we are loving (Agape ? unconditional love / no strings attached) God, the way He ask we won't be worshipping other gods or worshipping idols, we won't be murdering (thy shall not kill) lying (false witness), committing adultery or coveting and this covers ll the commandments. If we do those two things faithfully, everything else will fall into place

In fact not a single commandment is mentioned in the NT, remember the four gospels are OT, Gospel Preparation. Think about it the Ten Commandments are not mentioned as part of the Christian teaching by the Apostles.

Consider all the ordnances, laws etc that are part of the OT. This include everything from keeping the ritual sacrifices, dietary laws, growing gardens a particular way, not working on the Sabbath, only traveling a certain distance from home, wearing a certain color tassel on your clothes, homosexuality, the position of women in the home, did I mention that if you son disobeyed you, you were required to bring him before the elders and stone him for his behavior. If you wife was on her cycle, she was considered unclean and you could not go near her for days.

So when you say ?we are suppose to follow the laws of the "Old Testament" you really don?t understand the OT nor understand what you are saying. Are you willing to have your son stoned to death because he disobeyed you? If we were living under the OT Law and Time (God would not have a problem with it) Now we are under the Law of Christ 2008 and the Law of the Land say you cannot stone your child and God would consider it Murder, if you murdered you son, then you do not love him.

Paul said ? Gal 5

Paul's talking to: young churches, mostly of a Jewish background. When he speaks of "the Law", he's referring to Mosaic Law (Old Testament)

Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not (negative particale of negation - absoutly not) entangled again with the yoke of bondage (the Old Law). ?We are free from the old law, because of the liberty we have in Christ (Resurrection)?

Behold, "Pay Attention / Focus in on" I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised (Jews) Christ shall profit you nothing. ?If you are going to hold onto the Law, the Christ is no benefit to you?

For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law (OT); ye are fallen from grace.(not saved)

For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith?
Who is our hope Jesus (1 Tim. 1:1, 1 Peter 1:3) There is no hope in the OT Law, there is only hope in the Law of Christ.

For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

For all the law (OT) is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. ?Same as I said above?

Jesus clearly states in the Gospel of Matthew that He came not to abolish the law, but to fulfil it. He didn't destroy the Law of Moses, he completed it. He fulfilled the prophesies of the coming messiah.

Question: Were the Gentiles saved under the Law?

Question: do you believe that God the Father has all power and He gave that power to Jesus. Jesus has the authority to rule, to teach, to forgive, to judge, and much more.

RB, why are you afraid to answer my questions on the Book of Hebrews. No, no, no the scripture does no contradict itself and for sure the scripture did not say the Old Testament and New Testament are the same.

Read Hebrews 8:1 - 10 and 13"For if that "the first covenant had been fautless, then no place for a second. (13) In that He (Lord / Jesus) says a new (kainos {kahee-nos'}recently made, fresh, recent, unused, unworn) covenant, He (Jesus) has made [palaioo {pal-ah-yo'-o} - to declare a thing to be old and so about to be abrogated] the first protos {pro'-tos} chief] obsolete (when its obsolete, that mean it no longer used / valid) and growing old [gerasko {ghay-ras'-ko} to fail from age, be obsolescent] and is ready [eggus {eng-goos'} times imminent and soon to come pass] to vanish away [aphanismos {af-an-is-mos'} disappearance, destruction, to make unseen]

Notice the a (alpha) in the word aphanismos, that a particle of negation / negative particle and written in the present tense represents a simple statement of fact, active voice represents the subject as the doer or performer [Jesus, since He made the statement]of the action.

And God has given him the authority to do as He please. This is only one scripture among 50 or 60 I can post that validates the out with the old an in with the new.

Question: If the OT was for Christians to obey, why does Paul continue to encourage the circumcised (Jews) to "Leave the Old Law alone" Should he also be telling the "Christians to do the same? He also should be saying those are members of the Church, leave the Law alone it's obsolete.

Did I say that Paul should be teaching the "Christian" to leaave the OT and it's Laws (agreements / convenants) alone. Actually he did He told the Christian Jews, those who had been baptized, in Acts (7:8 -covenant of circumcision) and agreement between God and Israel (Jews) was a Law / agreement / covenant (no option) that each male had to be circuicises. Acts 15:1 - the Christian Jews taught in oreder to be come a Christian - you need to become a Jew first. Acts 15:24 - circumcised, and keep the law we gave no [such] commandment"Paul being guided by the Holy Spirit, is saying there is no such commandment in Christanity that you have to be commandment or keep the law.

"God is the same yesterday ...."

Please dont have me to exegete that for you.

 

[ROYAL BLUE]

RB

First of all please understand that I am not your enemy, look at me as someone God has truly blessed with a tad bit of knowledge and I am still studying and trying to learn more and how to do it better.

I ask the same from you as well. I agree with most of what you've stated, however there are some things I simply can't agree with. For example,

None of the Old Testament law applies to us today. When Jesus died on the cross, He put an end to the Old Testament law (Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:23-25; Ephesians 2:15). Yes there is a but and here it is.

I never were God stated He put an end to the "OT" law when Jesus died on the cross. If this had happened then it would have been plainly stated as such and there would be no need for an interpretation. I feel you should believe as you wish and I the same. The most important thing to remember is that we're both Christians. This will all be made known when Christ return. I would just rather share my thoughts and wait and see.

 

[Dr H..]

When ?RB? God do not have to spell everything out for us, although He does. That why He instructs us to study. I you study the Book of Hebrews and other scriptures I posted there is no doubt that God done away with the Old Testament (rules and regulations). They were only given to show Israel how sinful they were and to point them toward Christ.

God planned before the creation a plan of salvation through Jesus (Gospel), not the Old Testament which excluded all that were not Jews or obeyed God. I can post and exegete all the scripture that tells us ?Christians? were never under the OT Law, that?s why we have the Law of Christ. Now, why would God hold us to two Laws, when He already said you cannot obey two masters, you have to love one and hate the other. It would be unfair of God to hold to both Laws, because they contradict each other.

The old law tells us an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, but that is not taught in the NT nor under the Law of Christ, so which one do you obey. The OT tell I my older brother pass away I have a right to marry his wife and have children, does the Law of Christ tell us this.

Christians, Jews and non-Christians violate a number of Old Testament laws every day "A woman must not wear men?s clothing, nor a man wear women?s clothing," Deut. 22:5; "Rise in the presence of the aged," Lev. 19:32; " Homosexuality, Children disrespecting their parents the list goes on and on and on. Wouldn?t parents and teachers be killing their children / students for talking back to them?

There are 613 Commandments in the OT, Israel was required to obey, think about it people today cannot obey one with any regularity. Back then God was dealing with individuals directly for violating His Law that were spelled out in the OT. He was striking people dead, but now we have an advocate (Jesus) to plead our case. That?s why Jesus nailed the old law to the cross and it had to be changed. If, not there was no way for mankind to be saved.

Consider

Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material," Lev. 19:19;
Deuteronomy 16:13, celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles for seven days after you have gathered the produce of your threshing floor and your winepress

Are the OT Laws important (sure they are) they were given for our learning (not obeying) we can learn from them in order that we may have hope.

Jesus? purpose here on earth was to fulfill the law, not only by living in total obedience to the law, but also by paying the penalty incurred by everyone who has ever lived or will ever live, who are drawn to place their trust in Him.

Here is the question I propose to you. You have a son, the first time he disobeyed you did you kill him? If not why, under the law, you were required to bring him before the Elders and if they found him guilty, you along with everyone were required to stone him to death.

Under the law, you could divorce you wife, for no particular reason. If she burnt the chicken, burnt the rice or if you were just tired of being with her you could divorce her. Under the Law of Christ, you have to have a just cause and you being tired of being with her are not a just cause.

Have you ever worked on a Saturday (Sabbath) then you were in violation of the law.

How many times have you sacrificed, turtle doves, fatted calves, goats or bulls for your sins. Even when people sinned the sins were carried over year after year after year. That?s not so under Christ Law / NT, we are forgiven when we repent.

I don?t know what age you are living in, but you are out of touch with God?s word and you are not saved.


You know you are incorrect, because you cannot answer my questions. Therefore, you do not have an argument of a leg to stand on.

 

[ROYAL BLUE]

I don?t know what age you are living in, but you are out of touch with God?s word and you are not saved.


You know you are incorrect, because you cannot answer my questions. Therefore, you do not have an argument of a leg to stand on.

Hey wbishop3, what did I say to make him judge me? I don't see you telling him he's not God. I guess now you see what I'm talking about.

Dr. H, I will stick to what I know and you can stick to what you know. The "OT" was confirmed by Christ and it still exists today....that's biblical.

 

[Dr H..]

Ok

So you refuse to answer my questions "right" just asking...

I am not you enemy. You could be an asset to a church, but have to allow the Holy Spirit to guide you. I could show you how to exegete the word that would blow any preachers mind.

 

[ROYAL BLUE]

Ok

So you refuse to answer my questions "right" just asking...

I am not you enemy. You could be an asset to a church, but have to allow the Holy Spirit to guide you. I could show you how to exegete the word that would blow any preachers mind.

It's not about me or you, it's about the word. It doesn't matter what I think because in the end the word of God prevails. This is what so many Christians fail to understand. God's word is simple and yet so many make it difficult to understand.

I answered your question with the word but the word is not enough for you. You want tme to tell you what I think and I simply can't do that because it doesn't matter if the word has clarified the question. For example, if you ask me should a woman who's been raped or molested have an abortion, I would say no. Why? The word states thou shalt not murder. Murder is premeditated and so are abortions. It doesn't matter the circumstances because God knew the woman was raped and yet He placed the soul in the embryo regardless of the situation. He made it plain and simple, thou shalt not murder......that simple. If we would just listen to God instead of what men think we would be better off. Again, I answer questions with scripture and not the words of men. The words of men can get you in trouble because men are ever changing, however the word of God stands forever and so does His law.......all of it.

 

[Dr H..]

Yes it?s about the Word (Living Word). No you did not answer my questions! I asked you several yes and no question (did I not) I ask you answer yes or no, it?s just that simple. And you did not answer the questions.

I asked you about stoning you Son to death, if he disobeyed you (yes or no) after all, that?s taught in the OT and you said that we should obey the OT (did you not). Therefore, it was a fair question. I asked you did God give Jesus all power / authority (yes or no) you did not answer the question. I asked you did the Gentile have salvation under the law, yes or no.

I can say with all confidence you are not saved, why. You have not been converted or born again, because you are making an attempt to abide by the Mosaic Law (OT guidelines and statues). When the bible specifically, tells us there is no salvation in the OT. If it were there would not have been a need for a NT. Therefore, what you are implying is ?Jesus wasted his time on the cross and God thanks but no thanks, I am staying with the OT.

Let?s be honest, if you had answered the questions they would have proved that you did not understand the New Covenant (Laws, Agreement).

No one is perfect and I (trust me) understand, because years ago I had a similar thinking. But ?Thank God? like Paul, I saw the Light (Jesus) that pulled me out of dark Pharisees

Remember Saul ?a Jew? (Paul); he was a devout Jew, Pharisees or Pharisees, study under Gamaliel and he honestly believed what he was doing (Killing Christians) was right because of his knowledge of the OT and trying to abide by the OT Law. But! One day while he was on the road to Damascus (breathing threats) he met someone greater than the Pharisees, the Old Law, Gamaliel, The Leviticus Priest, Prophets, Kings, David, Ole wise Solomon, greater than the angles, Gabriel, Michel, Lucifer, he met someone that was here before the foundation of the world, started the church, gave hi life in order that we may have life, lived a sinless life, that will never die, someone that was the ?perfect sacrifice?, someone that was preparing the Kingdom before there were kingdoms, someone that was God?s Plan of Salvation, someone that created the angels, someone that returned to heaven and now is seated at the right hand of God (seat of authority), someone that said ?I will never leave you of forsake you, I will be with you until the end of time (and we know time infinite).

Paul thought he was right, and then all of a sudden ?a light shone around ole Paul, a light from heaven. That light was no more than Jesus Christ (He is the Light) ole Saul, fell to the ground and then a voice (a voice only ole Saul could hear) ?God has a way of getting folks attention? The voice said ?Saul, Saul, (O Saul) why are you persecuting me, why are you mistreating me! why are you troubling me !, why are you molesting me !, why are showing hostility toward me !.

Saul said ?Who are you Lord, Then Jesus said ?I am (I am that I am, I am the way, I am the truth, I the Light, I am the King of Kings, I am not of this world, I am [he], ye shall die in your sins, I am [he], and [that] I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I am in the world, I am the light of the world, I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind, I am the door of the sheep, I am come that they might have life, I am the good shepherd, because I said, I am the Son of God, I am the resurrection, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Jesus is telling Saul ?That I am and I don?t need anything or anyone else, because I am)

The person Saul met was Jesus Christ, not the Leviticus Priest, David, Solomon or the old law.

It was Jesus.

Read Hebrews 1:1,2

Now if you don?t understand and insist on ?obeying the OT? well all I can say God?s longsuffering is indeed longsuffering.

 

[ROYAL BLUE]

Yet, it sickens me to see people like yourself RB come on here and call others (like Dr. H) "SNAKES". What makes you the for most authority on how we should walk with God? What makes you the Judge and Jury to decide who is right and who is wrong? Who gives you the authority to pass judgement on your fellow brothers and sisters?

Aren't you going to chastise Dr. H just like you chastised me? Where are you when the very thing that sickens you spoken from the very person you're protecting? Where you at? Can you not see or are you blind to one side and ever seeing to the other? As all can see, it's not me who does the attacking but others but you only see what you wish. Are you afraid to speak against the one and only Dr. H? Are you man enough to question him on the things that sicken you? I will post it below just in case your eye "MISTAKENLY" overlooked the Doctor's judgment against another brother. For some strange reason he assured me that God has given him authority to judge. He also states that God told him salvation did not exist in the "OT".

I can say with all confidence you are not saved, why. You have not been converted or born again, because you are making an attempt to abide by the Mosaic Law (OT guidelines and statues). When the bible specifically, tells us there is no salvation in the OT. If it were there would not have been a need for a NT. Therefore, what you are implying is ?Jesus wasted his time on the cross and God thanks but no thanks, I am staying with the OT.

 

[illinijag]

You could be an asset to a church, but have to allow the Holy Spirit to guide you.

Such is true, Mr. Royal Blue has much potential but we all must seek the guidance of the Holy Spirit. It is my hope that we all (myself included) are under such Guidance.

Dr H.. please check your email.