Open Enrollment: The HBCU educational suicidal move


The Founder said:
I think our U.S. society is leading a worst caste system than we already have.

So I have question what is the conclusion? Meaning how can we as educated folk help those who are unprepared to be able to gain an education?
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1. Really support and push the Community College system as a place where people hone their skills and catch up.

2. Lobby Congress to change the law so that 1)Community colleges get credit for kids who transfer to Universities in good academic standing before graduating 2)That Universities who take transfers get positive credit. 3) Allow cradle to grave academic tracking of students 4) Schools who students transfer but still graduate within 6 years get credit.
 
jsupop33 said:
1. Really support and push the Community College system as a place where people hone their skills and catch up.

2. Lobby Congress to change the law so that 1)Community colleges get credit for kids who transfer to Universities in good academic standing before graduating 2)That Universities who take transfers get positive credit. 3) Allow cradle to grave academic tracking of students 4) Schools who students transfer but still graduate within 6 years get credit.
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Exactly! It is not that we do not graduate people, it just that a large percentage of the individuals that we do graduate are not counted in our graduation rates. In addition, while some students fail at our institution, a number of them simply transfer to other institutions where they feel more comfortable. They are still being educated, and we should not necessarily be penalized because the culture or extracurricular experience did not pan out for them. You Ed policy people, need to get on that Pops. LOL

The only other thing that I would add, is that the Department of Labor needs to make it mandatory for employers to report their employees information to the Department of Ed on a mandatory basis. Then have analysts determine what schools the individuals graduated from (the employer should provide this in their report) and whether or not the individuals are gainfully employed as it relates to their respective level of education. This information could then be made available to the public and would really give you a more accurate picture of universities and their programs. Consumers would be more informed than they ever have been because US News & Report rankings really do not provide a true picture. Alumni programs and IR departments could use this information as well. In addition, the Department of Ed could use the information to determine which programs are actually worth the money it takes to fund them. While some of this is done on a much smaller scale at the state level (Texas does a form of this), laws need to be changed and/or enacted so it can be done holistically at the federal level.
 



Panther88 said:
I wonder #1, when did PWCUs transition to closed admissions based upon merit/academic prowess/standardized testing/et al and #2, why the HBCUs were so slow to get on board w/ mainstream ideology?
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Most PWIs that were closed admissions were not closed in the sense that we see them today. Most were closed based on socioeconomic statues, rather than academics. The students that they did admit on scholarships from lower tiered families were on "work study" passes where they cooked and cleaned. The closed enrollment movement from an academic sense did not take place at institutions other than the Ivies until the 193os-40s when standardized testing came into play, and even then exceptions were still made in times when schools needed the funds from students that were less stellar academically. Prime example is the GI Bill. Colleges knew that these were guaranteed funds from the feds and they actually had marketing geared to get vets to attend their schools regardless of their academic abilities.

The reason why HBCUs missed the boat on this was because of the level of our high schools. Many Black high schools were not doing a great job of educating Black students. (In America, Higher education was founded before K-12, which is much of the reason why secondary education suffers so much today) As a result, many HBCUs felt (not stating this is a right or wrong mindset) that they had to remain open admissions in order to give those students a chance at higher education that necessarily were not prepared from secondary education. Remember community colleges were not prevalent yet and even then they had a much different focus than they do now (for the most part). Many HBCU administrators probably never thought that integration was a reality and did not consider what would happen if PWIs begin to compete with them for Black students. They saw themselves as always being the option of providing education for those that were shutout from other avenues. While it worked and has created so many success stories, that lack of vision has placed us behind the eightball every since.
 
So basically what it is boiling down to is you people have a complex against what you consider average or thug students? Hmmmmmmmmmmm.........
 
George Bush admitted he was a "C" student, which makes him an average student. He was a Governor of Texas and President for 8. I would venture to say he did better than the valedictorians of his classes.
 
CEE DOG said:
George Bush admitted he was a "C" student, which makes him an average student. He was a Governor of Texas and President for 8. I would venture to say he did better than the valedictorians of his classes.
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He was part of that secret society and he also had that silver boot
 
CEE DOG said:
George Bush admitted he was a "C" student, which makes him an average student. He was a Governor of Texas and President for 8. I would venture to say he did better than the valedictorians of his classes.
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Cee I usually agree with you, but now you know that has nothing to do with him being an average student at Yale. I don't buy into the Ivy League hype. I was in grad school with a kid from Harvard and dude was dumb as a box of rocks and only had the fact that he had a Harvard undergrad degree to fall back on. Bush would have been successful if he never went to Yale. His success has nothing to do with his education and everything to do with the fact that he is a Bush.
 
I was in college with some *****S (and I dont really use that word often) who had NO BUSINESS in college. I realized that my freshmen year in Creative Writing when we had to proofread our classmates papers. Now I went to a hood high school and it was no way in hell they were letting us graduate writing like some of the ish I seen.
 
DAHILL said:
I was in college with some *****S (and I dont really use that word often) who had NO BUSINESS in college. I realized that my freshmen year in Creative Writing when we had to proofread our classmates papers. Now I went to a hood high school and it was no way in hell they were letting us graduate writing like some of the ish I seen.
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That is all of us. Sophmore year, I had a teammate ask me to proofread they paper and boy oh boy.... man.
 
dacontinent said:
I have worked for 29 years with folks who have Masters and Doctorates and thought the same thing.
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Lol. I am not saying people can't grown DAC. I was just making a statement.

However, there is a difference between people slightly behind and those who just aren't ready at all. I went to school with some of those and I venture to say 70% of them did not make it our Junior year. There were cats at JSU that I knew from day 1 would drop out and they did. There were a few surprises though.
 
when we were open admissions I thought we should've been more aggressive in recruiting to build large numbers then as it was much cheaper and kids came from different situations them

Now, we close the doors and everyone and their momma wants an academically sound african american and it turns into a bidding war. Prices are sky high for college now and we're stuck in a numbers game.
 
dacontinent said:
I have worked for 29 years with folks who have Masters and Doctorates and thought the same thing.
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I agree. One of the smartest technical minds have ever worked with was horrible at writing. It was embarrassing to an extent but he is highly respected in his field. Of course, I was the one writing his specs. LOL
 



Seriously, NAFEO needs to step up the pressure on this not counting transfers stuff.

You see what the for-profits just did with gainful employment.
 
All jokes aside, I have met some dummies in school. It was like wow, you went to high school? For real? :shame:
 
jsupop33 said:
Seriously, NAFEO needs to step up the pressure on this not counting transfers stuff.

You see what the for-profits just did with gainful employment.
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+1. I'm beginning to understand this new game even more. tbf is right. It's almost like a bidding war now. :read:
 
kendrick said:
Let me somewhat retract my previous statement. Education is in peril due in large part because of the poverty created by politicians who are beholden to corporatists. This relationship has had a devastating affect on individual communities and education systems, which affect our children. Right now, as far as higher education is concerned, we are living in a time where it is apparent that access to such education is becoming exclusionary.

Even at the high school and elementary level, if one isn't in a charter or private school, the chance at getting a quality education that prepares students for college and/or the workforce is not very realistic due to all sorts of political, social and economic factors.
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I agree with the first paragraph. Many corporations and politicians are not necessarily making things better.

When things are equal (funding, student economic levels and demographics), public schools perform as well as other schools. I use to think that private schools were automatically better. I found out that it was not the case.
 
Panther88 said:
+1. I'm beginning to understand this new game even more. tbf is right. It's almost like a bidding war now. :read:
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I hope people paid attention to these last Pell Grant changes a few weeks ago. Man, I see what direction the feds are going in and it is all about productivity. What is your school producing?

If your school has low graduation rates and high default rates, it will become harder and harder to operate.
 
jsupop33 said:
I hope people paid attention to these last Pell Grant changes a few weeks ago. Man, I see what direction the feds are going in and it is all about productivity. What is your school producing?

If your school has low graduation rates and high default rates, it will become harder and harder to operate.
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Heck if there are high default ates the feds should provide more grants instead of loans. But I know it won't work that way.
 
jsupop33 said:
I hope people paid attention to these last Pell Grant changes a few weeks ago. Man, I see what direction the feds are going in and it is all about productivity. What is your school producing?

If your school has low graduation rates and high default rates, it will become harder and harder to operate.
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Could see this coming to fruition over 20 years ago. ROI. THAT is what's most important these days.
 
Pops I see yalls point on open enrollment, but stories like this is why I support it to a certain degree.

Lt. Gen. Dennis Via
http://blog.al.com/breaking/2012/08/retiring_gen_dunwoody_passing.html#incart_river_default

Using his own experience as illustration, Via has been an eloquent advocate of the importance of education and the difference a teacher can make in the life of a student. In appearances before a group of Madison County Schools educators and last fall's freshman class at Alabama A&M University, he told how a teacher named Edward L. Fontaine changed his life when Via was a student at George Washington Carver High School in Fieldale, Va., more than 36 years ago.

Despite good grades, Via had been told in high school he wasn't "college material" and had been urged to take a brick masonry class to prepare for the world of work. But the masonry teacher, Fontaine, "saw something in me that I did not see in myself," Via said. He constantly pushed the young man to set his sights on college instead of trade school.

Via became the first person in his family to go to college. He entered Virginia State University as a probationary student, made the grades and earned his degree - and the honor of Distinguished Military Graduate - in four years. After graduation in 1980, Via was commissioned as a second lieutenant in the signal corps.

He later earned a master's degree from Boston University, and is a graduate of the United States Army Command and General Staff College (class of 1991) and the U.S. Army War College (class of 1999). His list of commands and staff assignments before AMC culminated with service in Washington, D.C., as Director for Command, Control, Communications and Computer (C4) Systems and principal adviser to the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff on all C4, Information Technology, and Cyber Security matters for the Department of Defense.
 
Cee,
I think there should be an exceptions process. If a kid doesn't automatically qualify, they can request an interview. Many schools already do as such.
 
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