Open Enrollment: The HBCU educational suicidal move


This is a REALLY interesting thread. I don't think that I am really close enough to the issue at hand to offer much. I was part of the open enrollment era 33 years ago. I was accepted at every Ivy League school and any other school of my choosing, so open enrollment did not affect my own admission.

The issue came to a head in the summer of 1981 at JSU. Though I was a junior at the time, I gained access to the faculty meeting when the issue came up for discussion. I got the opportunity to address the faculty. My point then and now is simply that it does not matter who you allow into the university but who you allow out with certification (degrees). The success of the university will not be measured by the best students with degrees but by the worst of them.

I understand Pop's issues with defaults on student loans. However, protecting people from themselves is not the responsibility of the educational institution. It is right for the institution to help the prospective student to make an informed decision and then leave that decision and associated responsibility to the student.
 
Everything goes back to parenting. Open or Selective if parents were in their childs education in the early years and maintain its all the way to college it wouldn't matter if the college was open or selective admissions, hence why so many middle and high schools are unacceptable academically. That's the big picture.
 

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Dacon, I understand. I agree that it is who you let out that matters but when you are only graduating 15-20% of your kids, your school's academic reputation takes a hit and in the grand scheme of things, that matters and equates $$$. You could lower you standards to increase graduation numbers but you would risk lowering the quality of graduates you produce.
 
I just know that there are a number of people who simply do not test well and end up being some of the top difference makers in the world....furthermore there is a stigma involved as well.
 
jsupop33 said:
Open enrollment killed our academic reputations. The numbers simply don't support that policy being a good thing. Why do you think our schools are turning away from it. Ask Texas Southern or Southern would they ever go back to open enrollment.
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I hate to admit it but you are 100% correct. Kids who are not ready should be sent to community college for two years. But I also think that it should be explained to the student that they should re-apply after finishing community college. In the long run, the student would likely save money and the school would improve it's graduation rate.
 
jsupop33 said:
Dacon, I understand. I agree that it is who you let out that matters but when you are only graduating 15-20% of your kids, your school's academic reputation takes a hit and in the grand scheme of things, that matters and equates $$$. You could lower you standards to increase graduation numbers but you would risk lowering the quality of graduates you produce.
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I don't quite understand how a school's academic reputation takes a hit for such a rate. I would have thought just the opposite. Perhaps I am simply out of touch. Nevertheless, as we all know, standards can NEVER be lowered to yield better graduates.
 
dacontinent said:
I don't quite understand how a school's academic reputation takes a hit for such a rate. I would have thought just the opposite. Perhaps I am simply out of touch. Nevertheless, as we all know, standards can NEVER be lowered to yield better graduates.
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Most of the national academic rankings take graduation rates into account. They see schools with low rates as either having low standards for admittance or just attracting a lower caliber of student. They also measure things such as ACT scores of incoming students. While, overall, I think most of the major academic rankings are bull to the utmost degree, they do make a difference and now many states are looking at grad rates when it comes to funding.
 
jsupop33 said:
Most of the national academic rankings take graduation rates into account. They see schools with low rates as either having low standards for admittance or just attracting a lower caliber of student. They also measure things such as ACT scores of incoming students. While, overall, I think most of the major academic rankings are bull to the utmost degree, they do make a difference and now many states are looking at grad rates when it comes to funding.
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Thanks. I get it.
 
The Founder said:
Failing high schools yield failing students who can't get an education because colleges who once helped these students no longer feel obligated to assist. Therefore our society becomes enthralled with failures who seek out negative activities that lead to negative consequences, hence fueling poverty, prisons, and the graveyard.
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I can agree with this.
 
Killer Bees said:
I hate to admit it but you are 100% correct. Kids who are not ready should be sent to community college for two years. But I also think that it should be explained to the student that they should re-apply after finishing community college. In the long run, the student would likely save money and the school would improve it's graduation rate.
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No the school wouldn't, because transfers are not counted in the federal graduation rate calculation. Sending kids to community Colleges only lowers the number of less-prepared students who enroll in your school.
 
jsupop33 said:
Which will increase your graduation rate.
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lol

I'm not sure the reality to this game is setting in. :|

And yes, I do agree. I've made my stance known for quite a while now. Seems like there's a mass appeal to focus on those, who need it obviously, who are ill prepared rather than concentrate and augment those who are better prepared/equipped. Darwinism in education? Sounds the part.
 
That's why Grambling has partnered with Bossier Parish Community College and Delta Community College. That partnership will help Grambling increase retention and graduation rates.
 
Panther88 said:
lol

I'm not sure the reality to this game is setting in. :|

And yes, I do agree. I've made my stance known for quite a while now. Seems like there's a mass appeal to focus on those, who need it obviously, who are ill prepared rather than concentrate and augment those who are better prepared/equipped. Darwinism in education? Sounds the part.
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Amen. I graduated in the top 10 from high school and had scholarship offers from other schools. The last thing I wouldve wanted was to sit in class with a bunch of people who benefitted from open admissions. It may sound harsh, but lower standards bring your school's reputation down. Thankfully I was in the College of Engineering which generally recruited higher caliber students. Personally, I hope PV raises its standards even more. There are other options for people who can't get into PV (*cough* tsu...just kidding,lol). But seriously, ill-prepared students should try one of the MANY community colleges.
 

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I hope you all know with closed admissions, certain students who you consider unprepared are still admitted at all Universities.
 
It's interesting we note ill prepared students....but then flip it on how politicians place money on vouchers for private schools while public schools suffer....hence a larger number being ill prepared because they did not win the lottery to attend a better school....

To every cause is an effect.
 
I find it funny that when you read the law suites and the comments on why folks are suing to end race based admissions to certain schools, they compare to what those folks say about our so called top notch students. Interesting........
 
jsupop33 said:
Yep and a limited number of them is find.
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I agree with that fully. I have always thought limiting the amount was a good thing. I do agree that anyone should not be admitted to college. It is not for everyone and trade schools are not a bad thing for most of these kids. I think a screening process would help weed out the one with behavior problems. Those are the ones who hurt open enrollment.
 
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Storm96 said:
Amen. I graduated in the top 10 from high school and had scholarship offers from other schools. The last thing I wouldve wanted was to sit in class with a bunch of people who benefitted from open admissions. It may sound harsh, but lower standards bring your school's reputation down. Thankfully I was in the College of Engineering which generally recruited higher caliber students. Personally, I hope PV raises its standards even more. There are other options for people who can't get into PV (*cough* tsu...just kidding,lol). But seriously, ill-prepared students should try one of the MANY community colleges.
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Your days there were much, much, MUCH better than mine @ the p&g school. I recall VIVIDLY how a few "fellas" were sitting in the same class w/ moi the crab year and two of the dudes were stating that they didn't want to be @ PV but their attornies (plural) :retard: told them to enroll @ PV w/ the judge's blessings if they stayed out of trouble or they'd both be facing some type of 10+ yr deal w/out probation. They were also discussing the weed situation they were gonna' smoke later on AND the ganking they were gonna' crime upon ol' dude who had the red T/A (trans-am) on campus-his system. :smh: There's no way in HADES anyone in the top -1% of their class should've been subjected to that kind of human stupidity taking advantage of something that COULD'VE been a positive to those who needed the 2nd chance to get it right, if they didn't or weren't allowed to do so in HS. Those were isolated events but what I DID look @ was the overall GSR for PV during my time there: 13%. Thirteen freaking percent. :|
 
Panther88 said:
Your days there were much, much, MUCH better than mine @ the p&g school. I recall VIVIDLY how a few "fellas" were sitting in the same class w/ moi the crab year and two of the dudes were stating that they didn't want to be @ PV but their attornies (plural) :retard: told them to enroll @ PV w/ the judge's blessings if they stayed out of trouble or they'd both be facing some type of 10+ yr deal w/out probation. They were also discussing the weed situation they were gonna' smoke later on AND the ganking they were gonna' crime upon ol' dude who had the red T/A (trans-am) on campus-his system. :smh: There's no way in HADES anyone in the top -1% of their class should've been subjected to that kind of human stupidity taking advantage of something that COULD'VE been a positive to those who needed the 2nd chance to get it right, if they didn't or weren't allowed to do so in HS. Those were isolated events but what I DID look @ was the overall GSR for PV during my time there: 13%. Thirteen freaking percent. :|
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Similar situation at SU also with a cat I knew from the hometown who was ordered to go to college or military in order to avoid jail time. However in his case I knew he graduated H.S. with a 3.0+ GPA with no intentions of ever living a legal life. Doubt he ever graduated from SU.

Know of a young lady with a B.S. Chemistry from an HBCU (not SU) and a M.S. from U of Houston who used her smarts to develop an illegal brownie concoction. SMH
 
I think our U.S. society is leading a worst caste system than we already have.

So I have question what is the conclusion? Meaning how can we as educated folk help those who are unprepared to be able to gain an education?
 
jag4life said:
Similar situation at SU also with a cat I knew from the hometown who was ordered to go to college or military in order to avoid jail time. However in his case I knew he graduated H.S. with a 3.0+ GPA with no intentions of ever living a legal life. Doubt he ever graduated from SU.

Know of a young lady with a B.S. Chemistry from an HBCU (not SU) and a M.S. from U of Houston who used her smarts to develop an illegal brownie concoction. SMH
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Seems like that young man counted negatively against SU's GSR and the young lady counted positively towards her univ's GSR. lol What they do once they are outside (graduated) is all upon them.

I think this focus @ this time is those who are incoming, their retention, and subsequent graduation. Graduation on to grad school, work force, entrepreneurship, or on to a life of crime lol, that's all upon them individually. What the tax base (gov't and those who support it) is looking @ are the GSR %s. Once they come in, do they graduate @ a clip > a paultry 10-11%. :smh: A university. Where's it's alleged to be the best of the best. W/ a 10-11% GSR, where is the "best" located? lol

@Founder, I think all are still seeking the answers. But, I do believe the gov't is finding the solution. :read: Dwindled funding towards those entities where there is zero semblance of economic viability - ROI. Once those funds dwindle Bishop College, Morris Brown College, Paul Quinn College, et al who are on the chopping block w/ life support in place (not all HBCUs :read: ) , then all will finally open their eyes to the problem and formulate a solution that will help augment the entity to meet the standard it's required to meet. I can honestly state the GRREATEST thing to occur to PVAMU during the mid-80s was for aTm-The System to step in and almost take over almost every single facet of fiscal affairs. There was so, so, so, SO much malfeasance occurring. Not too many could spell "accountability" on that campus (the admin staffers :read: ). The professorships in place were stolid (from what I'd researched). But those admin positions (quite a few)? Man.... :smh: PVAMU would've and should've closed a looooooooooooooong time ago w/ its paultry 13% graduation rate. :retard:
 
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