My Take On The Student-Athlete vs. HBCU Problem.


And I'm going to end with this...

Proving yourself in a playoff setting is one way in at least attracting some of the top athletes. Quit saying that a SWAC team would not win in the FCS playoffs based on the DAMN PAST!!! The DAMN PAST is in THE DAMN PAST.

Just give a chance. Henry Frazier and Ernest Collins left for a reason. Look past damn pride and tradition and realize the real truth. Think about what I am ending with:

"The Top Athletes Desire Winning, but also Desire Something to Remember. Champions are remembered for one year. Dynastys are remembered for many years"
 
BraveHeart123,

And I'm going to end with this...

Proving yourself in a playoff setting is one way in at least attracting some of the top athletes. Quit saying that a SWAC team would not win in the FCS playoffs based on the DAMN PAST!!! The DAMN PAST is in THE DAMN PAST.

Just give a chance. Henry Frazier and Ernest Collins left for a reason. Look past damn pride and tradition and realize the real truth. Think about what I am ending with:

"The Top Athletes Desire Winning, but also Desire Something to Remember. Champions are remembered for one year. Dynastys are remembered for many years"
Click to expand...

28.6%
 



Folks who come on here complaining about how elite black athletes won't attend HBCUs comparatively to other schools really don't care about the kids either. I know many have said that HBCUs care more about the student-athletes than major college football factories across the country.

It is what those kids can do for schools, boosters, and slack jaw yokels like us.

However, reading these comments has me believing that some want the black athlete only to raise the profiles of their own universities just like PWCs.

Do football factories as a whole care about the student-athlete? I don't think so. But this entire thread is not about caring about the well-being of student-athletes educational pursuits and futures. This thread is about getting those kids to HBCUs to improve the athletic program so schools can make money off them just like everyone else is. That's the real deal here.

We want to get in the pimp game as well. There is nothing wrong with that of course, but let's not use all this sanctimonious language about we need those kids in our schools because we will treat them better and care about whether or not they graduate. B.S.

We want those cats to help us win big just like the big boy schools.
 
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Axel Foley said:
Folks who come on here complaining about how elite black athletes won't attend HBCUs comparatively to other schools really don't care about the kids either. I know many have said that HBCUs care more about the student-athletes than major college football factories across the country.

It is what those kids can do for schools, boosters, and slack jaw yokels like us.

However, reading these comments has me believing that some want the black athlete only to raise the profiles of their own universities just like PWCs.

Do football factories as a whole care about the student-athlete? I don't think so. But this entire thread is not about caring about the well-being of student-athletes educational pursuits and futures. This thread is about getting those kids to HBCUs to improve the athletic program so schools can make money off them just like everyone else is. That's the real deal here.

We want to get in the pimp game as well. There is nothing wrong with that of course, but let's not use all this sanctimonious language about we need those kids in our schools because we will treat them better and care about whether or not they graduate. B.S.

We want those cats to help us win big just like the big boy schools.
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Speak the truth son. Speak the truth. :tup: :bowdown:

Howsinever, there's a minute few of us who are genuinely concerned about student-athletes' treatment and being used not only @ PWCUs but @ HBCUs as well. I've spoken to <b>3</b> differing prospective D-I FBS and FCS recruits and one father of a D-I FBS/FCS recruit and the thing I stressed is <b>paper</b> and <b>overall student development</b>. Everything else is not <b>mandatory</b> and is secondary, literally. If a paren sends their child based on those objectives FIRST, I think they'll be successful, whereever they decide to go.
 
Axel Foley said:
Folks who come on here complaining about how elite black athletes won't attend HBCUs comparatively to other schools really don't care about the kids either. I know many have said that HBCUs care more about the student-athletes than major college football factories across the country.

It is what those kids can do for schools, boosters, and slack jaw yokels like us.

However, reading these comments has me believing that some want the black athlete only to raise the profiles of their own universities just like PWCs.

Do football factories as a whole care about the student-athlete? I don't think so. But this entire thread is not about caring about the well-being of student-athletes educational pursuits and futures. This thread is about getting those kids to HBCUs to improve the athletic program so schools can make money off them just like everyone else is. That's the real deal here.

We want to get in the pimp game as well. There is nothing wrong with that of course, but let's not use all this sanctimonious language about we need those kids in our schools because we will treat them better and care about whether or not they graduate. B.S.

We want those cats to help us win big just like the big boy schools.
Click to expand...

Folks kill me with this HBCU's care more about their students-athletes mess.....(ask those 2003-2005 JSU Football Team if anywone cared about them no offense pop33 u my boi but Boom got more perks than football team)..HBCU's care just as much as PWC do...its all about how much talent you have and if u can help the team win and put up points, and if you meet those qualities to the highest level, then that determines how much both HBCU's and PWC care......

And we at JSU now care if they graduate so they can help our APR rating but they better be able to play as well as get the grades!!!:lol: but other than that it's about wins and losses.....take a truthful survey and see how many people would want a 100% graduation rate or an undefeated championship football team....or better yet ask PV when they had their 80 game loosing streak! :lecture:

Folks need to be real.........
 
Whats wrong with getting our kids to help build our programs back to what they were and in turn our HBCUs being STRONG again financially to where we don't need the goverment that will continue to screw us and threaten to CLOSE our HBCUs... which is ON the way since the Repubs will be making cuts... and of course we know who that hurts the most...

But again what wrong with us using our kids to make our programs great and atract MORE students to our schools?

Isn't that what the PWCs did but with our kids?

And if you feel we as HBCUs are not set out to help our kids then why did you attend? and how can a poor man help another poor man?

I would love to believe if our HBCUs are strong and rich they will do more for our black kids.. not JUST athletes...

And if that's not the mindset of the administrations across the board...

Then I say that's where our very next mission should focused on.. making sure those who govern our HBCUs understand they should have the same goals and principles as the founders of these great black institutions...

If that's not where your head is... WHY in the F do you come on TSPN reppin your HBCU?!?!

Are it may be because what I said in a earlier thread...

Just come on here to be a negga and DISS other HBCUs to make YOURSELF feel better about the choice of school you went to.

As soon as some of you all get off that YT is right tip. yall might start to see where I am coming from...
 
JSUDMJ2004 said:
Folks kill me with this HBCU's care more about their students-athletes mess.....(ask those 2003-2005 JSU Football Team if anywone cared about them no offense pop33 u my boi but Boom got more perks than football team)..HBCU's care just as much as PWC do...its all about how much talent you have and if u can help the team win and put up points, and if you meet those qualities to the highest level, then that determines how much both HBCU's and PWC care......

And we at JSU now care if they graduate so they can help our APR rating but they better be able to play as well as get the grades!!!:lol: but other than that it's about wins and losses.....take a truthful survey and see how many people would want a 100% graduation rate or an undefeated championship football team....or better yet ask PV when they had their 80 game loosing streak! :lecture:

Folks need to be real.........
Click to expand...

Well you not lying.. but THOSE folk you speak of need to stay away from our HBCUs...

Because they are the cancer... I hope you don't feel that way...

:tup:
 
SUtrp96 said:
Whats wrong with getting our kids to help build our programs back to what they were and in turn our HBCUs being STRONG again financially to where we don't need the goverment that will continue to screw us and threaten to CLOSE our HBCUs... which is ON the way since the Repubs will be making cuts... and of course we know who that hurts the most...

But again what wrong with us using our kids to make our programs great and atract MORE students to our schools?

Isn't that what the PWCs did but with our kids?

And if you feel we as HBCUs are not set out to help our kids then why did you attend? and how can a poor man help another poor man?

I would love to believe if our HBCUs are strong and rich they will do more for our black kids.. not JUST athletes...

And if that's not the mindset of the administrations across the board...

Then I say that's where our very next mission should focused on.. making sure those who govern our HBCUs understand they should have the same goals and principles as the founders of these great black institutions...

If that's not where your head is... WHY in the F do you come on TSPN reppin your HBCU?!?!

Are it may be because what I said in a earlier thread...

Just come on here to be a negga and DISS other HBCUs to make YOURSELF feel better about the choice of school you went to.

As soon as some of you all get off that YT is right tip. yall might start to see where I am coming from...
Click to expand...

As I said, there is nothing wrong with HBCUs, fans and alums with wanting to attract the best students and athletes to fortify the universities. I think everyone would love that.

I respect cats who say we want to use those black athletes in the same manner as white schools do by raising the profile and winning games on the field or court.

However, some of these statements about kids shouldn't be wooed by some of the assets PWCs offer or HBCUs will treat student-athletes better, or it would be some form of racial treason if those kids don't attend our school are not genuine and reek of insecurity.
 
Axel Foley said:
As I said, there is nothing wrong with HBCUs, fans and alums with wanting to attract the best students and athletes to fortify the universities. I think everyone would love that.

I respect cats who say we want to use those black athletes in the same manner as white schools do by raising the profile and winning games on the field or court.

However, some of these statements about kids shouldn't be wooed by some of the assets PWCs offer or HBCUs will treat student-athletes better, or it would be some form of racial treason if those kids don't attend our school are not genuine and reek of insecurity.
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I believe we have to be upfront...and say it...

Hell we would be helping each other...

4 and 5 star athletes help SU... they are also helping JSU, ALCORN, VALLEY, GSU...PV so on and so forth...

In tern we as ALUM should be PRESSING our administrations to HELP more of our kids with tuition while we are still expanding because of publicity....

All I am saying is what wrong for us asking for the SAME system the PWCs have in place...

They already and BEEN had MORE than us.... so it was nothing for them to attract OUR black kids...

it's 2011 and the GOVERNMENT is still shafting our HBCUs in portion of tax dollars...

All I am saying is let's all help each other...

The system the PWCs have in place ONLY helps 5 and 4 star BLACK athletes... all other HOPEFUL POOR BLACK kids better KICK ROCKS in their eyes.

I can't believe most of you on here don't see nothing wrong with that...

And again.. you can't ask HBCUs with NOTHING to give to help our poor blacks the way we should and want to....

But if those 5 and 4 star athletes come BACK to us... WE in turn can HELP more unfortunate blacks who may not be great 4 5 star prospects...

:tup:
 
What happens when a 4 or 5 star athlete (in Texas they are called Blue Chip..at least they use to be) chooses an HBCU or non-PWC school. I remember one instance specifically where a guy was on the Blue Chip list and when he decided to go HBCU his name conspicuously disappeared. Does that happen in other states?


SUtrp96 said:
I believe we have to be upfront...and say it...

Hell we would be helping each other...

4 and 5 star athletes help SU... they are also helping JSU, ALCORN, VALLEY, GSU...PV so on and so forth...

In tern we as ALUM should be PRESSING our administrations to HELP more of our kids with tuition while we are still expanding because of publicity....

All I am saying is what wrong for us asking for the SAME system the PWCs have in place...

They already and BEEN had MORE than us.... so it was nothing for them to attract OUR black kids...

it's 2011 and the GOVERNMENT is still shafting our HBCUs in portion of tax dollars...

All I am saying is let's all help each other...

The system the PWCs have in place ONLY helps 5 and 4 star BLACK athletes... all other HOPEFUL POOR BLACK kids better KICK ROCKS in their eyes.

I can't believe most of you on here don't see nothing wrong with that...

And again.. you can't ask HBCUs with NOTHING to give to help our poor blacks the way we should and want to....

But if those 5 and 4 star athletes come BACK to us... WE in turn can HELP more unfortunate blacks who may not be great 4 5 star prospects...

:tup:
Click to expand...
 
Herbert77060 said:
What happens when a 4 or 5 star athlete (in Texas they are called Blue Chip..at least they use to be) chooses an HBCU or non-PWC school. I remember one instance specifically where a guy was on the Blue Chip list and when he decided to go HBCU his name conspicuously disappeared. Does that happen in other states?
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That's the other BIG issue.. but it's like that because only a few "blue chips" ever attend HBCU's.. The Media stay away... know and understand the Media is controlled by the government.... Many don't believe this even on the local level..
When Rickie Weeks was doing big things at SU.. the Media only mad 4 words about it.. and it seem like they didn't want to do that.. Here in Louisiana the government is ran by mostly LSU and Tulane grads...
 
SUtrp96 said:
That's the other BIG issue.. but it's like that because only a few "blue chips" ever attend HBCU's.. The Media stay away... know and understand the Media is controlled by the government.... Many don't believe this even on the local level..
When Rickie Weeks was doing big things at SU.. the Media only mad 4 words about it.. and it seem like they didn't want to do that.. Here in Louisiana the government is ran by mostly LSU and Tulane grads...
Click to expand...

I saw Rickie Weeks when SU came to play JSU my freshman year he had scouts around the batting cage...He was puttin up big number in 2003..with no coverage!
 
JSUDMJ2004 said:
I saw Rickie Weeks when SU came to play JSU my freshman year he had scouts around the batting cage...He was puttin up big number in 2003..with no coverage!
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right!

Had he not been AS good.. would he have gotten the chance to play in the big leagues due to poor coverage?

I say that because me and you both know there are guys from big schools in the MLB with less talent than Weeks...
But you ain't about to find no one from an HBCU with less talent than Weeks swinging a bat in the MLB...
 



When I first learned of Weeks the national media was saying he was the best college baseball player in America. I can imagine that the LSU folk didn't want that info getting out. It might inspire others to follow his example....letting them know they can get there from "here".


SUtrp96 said:
That's the other BIG issue.. but it's like that because only a few "blue chips" ever attend HBCU's.. The Media stay away... know and understand the Media is controlled by the government.... Many don't believe this even on the local level..
When Rickie Weeks was doing big things at SU.. the Media only mad 4 words about it.. and it seem like they didn't want to do that.. Here in Louisiana the government is ran by mostly LSU and Tulane grads...
Click to expand...
 
People might as well let that 4 and 5 star recruit dream go... those days are long gone and its never going to happen. Best you can hope for is getting the kids that the App States and Georgia Southerns get and even thats a stretch. Bottom line is you dont have the money for the facilities, recycle coaches, and the athlete graduation rates are putrid. EVERY school offers a degree so you can pretty much take that out of the equation. A student is NOT more likely to be "nurtured" at an HBCU than a PWC just because they're black either.

It's like i've said, you wanted desegregation to for kids to be able to attend these schools so you cant have it both ways. And just being real, if my son is a 5 star recruit what exactly is it about YOUR school that should make me try to sway him there over Auburn? Just because it's an HBCU? I think there's a bit more to college than that. And I find it funny that no one is giving this same argument over the common non-athlete students that are black, more of which are choosing PWC's over HBCU's every year. But no, you dont care about them you just want the good football players that can make your program good.. and that mentality isnt any different than PWC's which is why it doesnt matter whether they choose either way since its all the same. And if its all the same its a no brainer why they choose the schools with more options.
 
unknown1 said:
People might as well let that 4 and 5 star recruit dream go... those days are long gone and its never going to happen. Best you can hope for is getting the kids that the App States and Georgia Southerns get and even thats a stretch. Bottom line is you dont have the money for the facilities, recycle coaches, and the athlete graduation rates are putrid. EVERY school offers a degree so you can pretty much take that out of the equation. A student is NOT more likely to be "nurtured" at an HBCU than a PWC just because they're black either.

It's like i've said, you wanted desegregation to for kids to be able to attend these schools so you cant have it both ways. And just being real, if my son is a 5 star recruit what exactly is it about YOUR school that should make me try to sway him there over Auburn? Just because it's an HBCU? I think there's a bit more to college than that. And I find it funny that no one is giving this same argument over the common non-athlete students that are black, more of which are choosing PWC's over HBCU's every year. But no, you dont care about them you just want the good football players that can make your program good.. and that mentality isnt any different than PWC's which is why it doesnt matter whether they choose either way since its all the same. And if its all the same its a no brainer why they choose the schools with more options.
Click to expand...

I disagree with your first paragraph.. Although your second is true...

Lets be honest... It's not really desegregation with kids in high school with better grades and behavior don't stand a chance to go to these big PWCs but the star QB or Running back or Big tall Olinemen is getting flooded with letters from PWCs with far worse grades...
 
SUtrp96 said:
I disagree with your first paragraph.. Although your second is true...

Lets be honest... It's not really desegregation with kids in high school with better grades and behavior don't stand a chance to go to these big PWCs but the star QB or Running back or Big tall Olinemen is getting flooded with letters from PWCs with far worse grades...
Click to expand...

And I disagree with that. Just with my graduation class alone, 50% of which was black, only 2% were student athletes. Only about 8% DIDNT go to college out of that 50%. Those that did, the majority of which went to Auburn, UGA, GT, GSU and Mercer. A few to Emory and a few to Spelman/Morehouse/FVSU. Our valedictorian was black, top of the class and went to UGA full ride. Even with me I got offers from quite a few PWC's. Hell Georgia State has over 30K students now, second in the state only to UGA and I think GSU is like 40% black now. Runner up to the valedictorian was also black, top of the class and went to Georgia Tech on either a full or a partial scholarship. Trust, its not just athletes if that was the case the number of black students attending these PWC's wouldnt be going up pretty much every year.

I think youre trying to apply the school system where YOU grew up and make it a general for black high school students but thats not the case everywhere. Well definitely not where i'm from anyways.
 
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JSUDMJ2004 said:
Folks kill me with this HBCU's care more about their students-athletes mess.....(ask those 2003-2005 JSU Football Team if anywone cared about them no offense pop33 u my boi but Boom got more perks than football team)..HBCU's care just as much as PWC do...its all about how much talent you have and if u can help the team win and put up points, and if you meet those qualities to the highest level, then that determines how much both HBCU's and PWC care......

And we at JSU now care if they graduate so they can help our APR rating but they better be able to play as well as get the grades!!!:lol: but other than that it's about wins and losses.....take a truthful survey and see how many people would want a 100% graduation rate or an undefeated championship football team....or better yet ask PV when they had their 80 game loosing streak! :lecture:

Folks need to be real.........
Click to expand...

Man you ain't lying. We couldn't even get in the club free. Man, it was rough during the Bell years. We are still blacklisted to a degree. The connection with the oldheads was broken during this time period. We don't get invites to football reunion picnics and such. A lot of tradition was killed during the bell years
 
JSUDMJ2004 said:
I saw Rickie Weeks when SU came to play JSU my freshman year he had scouts around the batting cage...He was puttin up big number in 2003..with no coverage!
Click to expand...

Well, you have to realize outside of Baseball America or a few local papers across the country, college baseball in general doesn't get a lot of coverage.

When I was in college on the team, our the sport rarely got any in-depth pub like football or basketball did.

All we got was about a two-inch story in the paper and sometimes a 5 second highlight on the local news. We got more pub in the school paper than the local press.
 
Most of what you say is true, but in areas like Atlanta and Decatur, blacks still attend HBCU's heavy. Also where we are throwing stats out here more kids who enter HBCU's graduate vs their PWC peers. Also while we putting stats out here, more HBCU grads go on to masters and OHD's vs their PWC counter parts. If we gone tell the story, tell the whole story. Kids go with what they are familiar with and inner city kids tend to go more HBCU routes. While suburbia and small town kids go with who they grew up with the most. PWC folks.
unknown1 said:
And I disagree with that. Just with my graduation class alone, 50% of which was black, only 2% were student athletes. Only about 8% DIDNT go to college out of that 50%. Those that did, the majority of which went to Auburn, UGA, GT, GSU and Mercer. A few to Emory and a few to Spelman/Morehouse/FVSU. Our valedictorian was black, top of the class and went to UGA full ride. Even with me I got offers from quite a few PWC's. Hell Georgia State has over 30K students now, second in the state only to UGA and I think GSU is like 40% black now. Runner up to the valedictorian was also black, top of the class and went to Georgia Tech on either a full or a partial scholarship. Trust, its not just athletes if that was the case the number of black students attending these PWC's wouldnt be going up pretty much every year.

I think youre trying to apply the school system where YOU grew up and make it a general for black high school students but thats not the case everywhere. Well definitely not where i'm from anyways.
Click to expand...
 
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Axel Foley said:
Well, you have to realize outside of Baseball America or a few local papers across the country, college baseball in general doesn't get a lot of coverage.

When I was in college on the team, our the sport rarely got any in-depth pub like football or basketball did.

All we got was about a two-inch story in the paper and sometimes a 5 second highlight on the local news. We got more pub in the school paper than the local press.
Click to expand...

Naw... brah.. here in New Orleans... LSU baseball getz MEGA coverage!!!

SO it was very ODD Weeks didn't get hardly any coverage down here...

But keep the "new" excuses for WT comin....lol
 
CEE DOG said:
Most of what you say is true, but in areas like Atlanta and Decatur, blacks still attend HBCU's heavy. Also where we are throwing stats out here more kids who enter HBCU's graduate vs their PWC peers. Also while we putting stats out here, more HBCU grads go on to masters and OHD's vs their PWC counter parts. If we gone tell the story, tell the whole story. Kids go with what they are familiar with and inner city kids tend to go more HBCU routes. While suburbia and small town kids go with who they grew up with the most. PWC folks. along with the inner city poor Athletes
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There, fixed it for ya'...

:tup:
 
SUtrp96 said:
Naw... brah.. here in New Orleans... LSU baseball getz MEGA coverage!!!

SO it was very ODD Weeks didn't get hardly any coverage down here...

But keep the "new" excuses for WT comin....lol
Click to expand...

Hell LSU baseball gets major coverage in Louisiana PERIOD. SU gets above average coverage too but I agree when Rickie Weeks was considered the best player in the Nation and he was beating LSU the coverage was minimum. :lol:
 
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