Is Our Time To Go, Set ???

[nevaehinvesting]

Even Christians can't agree on simple subjects pertaining to Christ's teachings and salvation.:smh:

And you non-christians do? Trust me, there is waaaaay more confusion outside of Christ church than there is inside. That's proven here daily.

All Chrisitans agree Jesus died and rose for our salvation. All christians will co-sign that. Fine details can be debateable, hence the swacpage.

 

[Dr H..]

RB

This is in correct, the spirit is the only part of man that returns to God “and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it – Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. Eccl 12:7.

And the soul await’s to be judged, the story of the rich man. There are not two sides of heaven, the souls on men go to a waiting place, exactly where it is physically located “only God knows†here again we have the story of Lazarus and the Rich Man as an example.

Lazarus dies and is taken to the bosom of Abraham, there is no mention of his burial here. The rich man dies, and he is buried (in Hades, according to verse 23). Lazarus was taken immediately to Abraham's bosom, afterward the rich man was buried in Hades after his death – he was tormented. Further, God told the rich man “if they did not listen to Moses, they would not listen to someone from the dead.

Where is the second chance "he is in torment"

What test are you referring to “provide scripture’s†the test is here and now, not after one is dead. Because we have again Lazarus and the Rich Man as a testimony

If Moses and Elijah were dead, how could the disciples recognize them in their spiritual body? They were not dead and they proved it on the mount.........

Are you serious, Moses has been dead at least a thousand years? Moses died at the age of 120 and did not enter the Promise Land, because of his disobedience.

The Bible states that "Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven 2 Kings 2;11, did he die. The bible does not say, but I am sure he did. And Moses the servant of the LORD died there in Moab, as the LORD had said. Det. 34:5.

Why are you saying they are not dead and what two sides of heaven are you referring to – please provide scripture.

 

[ROYAL BLUE]

RB

This is in correct, the spirit is the only part of man that returns to God “and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it – Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. Eccl 12:7.

And the soul await’s to be judged, the story of the rich man. There are not two sides of heaven, the souls on men go to a waiting place, exactly where it is physically located “only God knows†here again we have the story of Lazarus and the Rich Man as an example.

Lazarus dies and is taken to the bosom of Abraham, there is no mention of his burial here. The rich man dies, and he is buried (in Hades, according to verse 23). Lazarus was taken immediately to Abraham's bosom, afterward the rich man was buried in Hades after his death – he was tormented. Further, God told the rich man “if they did not listen to Moses, they would not listen to someone from the dead.

Where is the second chance "he is in torment"

What test are you referring to “provide scripture’s†the test is here and now, not after one is dead. Because we have again Lazarus and the Rich Man as a testimony

If Moses and Elijah were dead, how could the disciples recognize them in their spiritual body? They were not dead and they proved it on the mount.........

Are you serious, Moses has been dead at least a thousand years? Moses died at the age of 120 and did not enter the Promise Land, because of his disobedience.

The Bible states that "Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven 2 Kings 2;11, did he die. The bible does not say, but I am sure he did. And Moses the servant of the LORD died there in Moab, as the LORD had said. Det. 34:5.

Why are you saying they are not dead and what two sides of heaven are you referring to – please provide scripture.

I'll respond to your posts tonight.........

 

[JayRob]

And you non-christians do? Trust me, there is waaaaay more confusion outside of Christ church than there is inside. That's proven here daily.

All Chrisitans agree Jesus died and rose for our salvation. All christians will co-sign that. Fine details can be debateable, hence the swacpage.

That's not anywhere near to being true. Christians supposedly use the same Bible, but last time I checked, there are close to 34,000 denominations. WOW!! Somebody once asked...."is Christ divided". I'd have to say with emphasis...."YES". 34,000 different sets of beliefs?!:shame:
http://nccg.org/denominations.html

And what difference does it make whether or not all Christians believe Jesus died for salvation? Just believing in Jesus and salvation is not all there is to Christian salvation if I'm not mistaken. Somebody wrote that, "faith without works is dead".

Last but not least, if you want to compare the Christian religion to the "swacpage", that's on you. LOL!!

 

[dacontinent]

Why does one need a body if he's going to be in a spiritual heaven? As we see in the New Testament, people in spirit form can see, hear, talk without having a physical body. Seems to me that having a physical body is of no use...

No...a body is not needed; at least there is nothing that suggests that. I mention Jesus as being the firstborn from the dead.

Col 1:18
And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.​

Since Jesus is there as God's firstborn son from the dead and we are heirs and joint heirs with Him, and since His body is in heaven, and

1 Jn 3:2
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.​

and

1 Cor 15:51-54
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.​

then
I believe there is sufficient backing for the bodies of the redeemed being resurrected for heaven and the bodies of the lost being resurrected for hell.

...And if you're correct regarding firstborn sons being in heaven, again....why does there need to be a first resurrection if the firstborn are already in heaven as you mentioned?

I was not trying to say that there was a separate resurrection for firstborn sons. The only separate resurrection I know of is that of Jesus. Whether Enoch's (5:24)or Elijah's (2 Kings 2:1-11) bodies actually made it into heaven is not stated. Those bodies could be there if they never died in their being taken out of the earth realm.

 

[dacontinent]

This still doesn't explain why David escaped the sword being that he was the leader and he authorized the census. It seems that you're giving David a "free pass" and blaming the very victims who paid with their lives.
The God of the Old Testament claims to be "no respecter of persons", but his actions of killing 70,000 people, while leaving the author of the "sin" alive and well says something else.

Anyhow, I could list dozens and dozens of unjust decisions made by this God of the Old Testament, especially against unborn children, young children, women and whole towns, eventhough the people were innocent.

For me it would be more torturous to live knowing that others died for something that I initiated than to simply die for my own wrong. David hardly got a free pass...any more than he did for his affair with Bathsheba an killing of Uriah.

As for God's decisions being just ... I think the last thing that we want is for God to ONLY be just. We do want his mercy and grace while we continue to struggle with the concept of what is fair without knowing His mind.

 

[JayRob]

For me it would be more torturous to live knowing that others died for something that I initiated than to simply die for my own wrong. David hardly got a free pass...any more than he did for his affair with Bathsheba an killing of Uriah.

As for God's decisions being just ... I think the last thing that we want is for God to ONLY be just. We do want his mercy and grace while we continue to struggle with the concept of what is fair without knowing His mind.

Are you serious? Tell that to the children and relatives of the 70,000 who were killed.
This is why I find it illogical to believe such stories. The Old Testament is literally riddled with commands of the Israelites to kill babies still in the womb (which is a form of abortion), rape women, take them as prisoners, burn everything in the towns eventhough there were no reported diseases mentioned.

He supposedly even told a prophet to eat doo-doo (feces) and then told one prophet to marry a prostitute.
I wonder if followers today would abide by such violence and unusual commands to marry prostitutes/ eat feces, in return for a "promise" of going to heaven and praising this same God.

If that wasn't enough, just imagine for a moment, looking down from heaven and seeing/hearing the eternal screams and cries of loved ones (sons, daughters, mom/dad, etc), who didn't make it and are being burned and tortured and scorched. Would one be able to enjoy eternity under such conditions? This is what some denominations teach by the way.

This is why I don't believe a loving God would EVER command such nonsense from the people he claims to love and that religion was invented to control and create fear.

One day, I'll start a thread and list the commanded atrocities mentioned in the Old Testament and ask for a survey of folks who would agree with those atrocities or commands if they were told by their preachers to commit such crimes.

 

[dacontinent]

Are you serious? Tell that to the children and relatives of the 70,000 who were killed.
This is why I find it illogical to believe such stories. The Old Testament is literally riddled with commands of the Israelites to kill babies still in the womb (which is a form of abortion), rape women, take them as prisoners, burn everything in the towns eventhough there were no reported diseases mentioned...

1. Yes, I am very serious. Still, as I pointed out in my earlier post, the people of the land actively participated in something that they knew was forbidden. They were as much at fault as David was for the command.
2. Logic would seem to be one of your challenges with regard to God. You seem to want to insist that He should be logical in order for you to believe Him as being loving.
3. Yes, pregnant mothers and their babies were killed in warfare, just as they are today.
4. You stumped me this time. I have studied a lot of Bible in my day without ever having stumbled upon God commanding Israel/Judah to rape someone else.
5. Yes, there were commands for communities to be burned though there was no disease. It was a common warfare tactic (and still is). It was done both by and to Israel/Judah.

Eastern and western thoughts on warfare are very different.

 

[Dr H..]

JayR

One of the "things" the first century Christian had in common is they had "All things in common - Acts 2:44; 32" The problem is and I have said it before, that everyone that goes to church, carries a bible, say Amen is not a Christian. One is the main problems is people want to do their own thing and believe what they want to believe regardless of what the bible teach. During the first century there was only one Church, the people started becoming pissed off with the church and started doing their own thing.

Is that Christ's fault or does that mean that the bible is not the word of God, absoutly not. What we see agrees with the bible, that man will fall away from the truth and began to follow false doctrines. What we see is a result of people not taking the time to study the bible and we see it on this web site, based on some of the comments we read.

 

[JayRob]

Are you serious? Tell that to the children and relatives of the 70,000 who were killed.
This is why I find it illogical to believe such stories. The Old Testament is literally riddled with commands of the Israelites to kill babies still in the womb (which is a form of abortion), rape women, take them as prisoners, burn everything in the towns eventhough there were no reported diseases mentioned.

He supposedly even told a prophet to eat doo-doo (feces) and then told one prophet to marry a prostitute.
I wonder if followers today would abide by such violence and unusual commands to marry prostitutes/ eat feces, in return for a "promise" of going to heaven and praising this same God.

If that wasn't enough, just imagine for a moment, looking down from heaven and seeing/hearing the eternal screams and cries of loved ones (sons, daughters, mom/dad, etc), who didn't make it and are being burned and tortured and scorched. Would one be able to enjoy eternity under such conditions? This is what some denominations teach by the way.

This is why I don't believe a loving God would EVER command such nonsense from the people he claims to love and that religion was invented to control and create fear.

One day, I'll start a thread and list the commanded atrocities mentioned in the Old Testament and ask for a survey of folks who would agree with those atrocities or commands if they were told by their preachers to commit such crimes.

Here's one example of an atrocity I just can't fathom happening to anyone's daughter, sister, mother, friend....by any man.

Here's what the OT God told the Israelite men to do...."Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with him. But all the young girls who have not known man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."
(Numbers 31:17)

What the hell is going on here? 1) he told them to kill EVERY male among the little ones (babies).

Second, he told them to kill every woman who was not a virgin, meaning more than likely, they had one or more children. What does sex have to do with anything?

Third, he SPECIFICALLY told the men to keep alive the YOUNG GIRLS, not women.....but YOUNG GIRLS, for themselves for teen sex with minors.

Now just imagine (for one moment), if this were one of your daughters being kept alive for such purposes OR one of your little ones being killed OR your wife, simply because she chose to have your child by having simply mated with you?

This is supposed to be something commanded by a God who claims to be a God of "love"? I have serious doubts about such nonsense, and I have serious doubts that a LOVING God would ever inspire someone to write such nonsense.

 

[dacontinent]

Here's one example of an atrocity I just can't fathom happening to anyone's daughter, sister, mother, friend....by any man.

Here's what the OT God told the Israelite men to do...."Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with him. But all the young girls who have not known man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."
(Numbers 31:17)

What the hell is going on here? 1) he told them to kill EVERY male among the little ones (babies).
...

War is going on here. Male babies grow up to be warriors with long memories.

...Second, he told them to kill every woman who was not a virgin, meaning more than likely, they had one or more children. What does sex have to do with anything?
...

The Midianites were pagans who worshipped gods/goddesses of sex. It was an active part of their worship practices. God did not want Israel to be corrupted in that way.

...Third, he SPECIFICALLY told the men to keep alive the YOUNG GIRLS, not women.....but YOUNG GIRLS, for themselves for teen sex with minors...

Wrong. The young girls would simply be slaves for menial tasks. The Law was already given. Adultery was out the window and punishable by death.

...Now just imagine (for one moment), if this were one of your daughters being kept alive for such purposes OR one of your little ones being killed OR your wife, simply because she chose to have your child by having simply mated with you?

Read the passage. As a Midianite male, I would be dead already. As a soldier during that time, I would understand that our loss in battle would likely lead to the direct demise of my entire family. This is Eastern vs. Western thought again.

...This is supposed to be something commanded by a God who claims to be a God of "love"? I have serious doubts about such nonsense, and I have serious doubts that a LOVING God would ever inspire someone to write such nonsense.

These are the commands of a loving God in covenant with Israel and not with the Midianites. Read v.7-16. You noted v.17. Moses himself is appalled at the decision by the army to keep the women alive. It was the impetus of the Midianite women that had caused the problem at Peor; and the orders were to "avenge the Lord" for what was done there.

Israel was no great military might. However, when they were obedient to God's commands they were unstoppable.

 

[ROYAL BLUE]

Hold up RB,

# 1 How can one convert to Christianity, if they are dead, because, to become a Christian there is a procedure.

......because our God is a God of love and Christ was not offered to those who lived before Christ. God is not in the business of zapping souls, however He's in the business of sending Christ to save souls. All of this is part of God's plan of salvation.

Jeremiah 32:17 ‘Ah, Lord GOD! Behold, You have made the heavens and the earth by Your great power and outstretched arm. There is nothing too hard for You.

Jeremiah 32:18 You show lovingkindness to thousands, and repay the iniquity of the fathers into the bosom of their children after them—the Great, the Mighty God, whose name is the LORD of hosts.

Jeremiah 32:27 “Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh. Is there anything too hard for Me?

Romans 9:15 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.â€

My point is that God is able to save "whomever" He chooses and He proved this by informing Hagar He would be with her and her offspring; although they were not Israelites.

The other Greek word is Hadas [Hades]. This is the region of the dead. Before Jesus' ascension, the spirits of all people went to Hades [place of disembodied spirits, the saved and unsaved]. After His ascension, only the spirits of unbelievers go to Hades, while the spirits of believers go directly to be with the Lord [ “per se’] (2 Corinthians 5:1-8) or Abraham’s Bosom [typology of heaven], as the example of the Rich Man. Jesus entered into this region [Hadean World] after His crucifixion (Acts 2:25-31 / Psalm 16:9-10). Ephesians 4:8-10 says that Jesus, "had descended into the lower parts of the earth" Jesus' visit to Hades before His ascensionâ€. And Romans 10:7 Jesus in "the abyss" while He was among the dead. After the final judgment, Hades will be cast into Hell (Revelation 20:14). Therefore, Jesus descended into Hades but not into Hell."

I Peter 3:18-20, go back to 2:21-25 Peter mentioned Jesus' conduct during His passion (2:21-23), His death on the cross (2:24), and His ministry as the Shepherd and Guardian of our souls (2:24b-25).

The question is who were the Spirits he preaching to in Hadean (Prison) world was it those that were saved (OT Doctrine) or was it those that were lost (OT Doctrine) and what was the message being preched?

You stated that Christ was preaching, converting them to Christianity. Why would He do that, they died during the time of Noah..........

I agree with most of what you stated, but not all. I disagree with the "disembodied" spirits because I believe all souls step into their spiritual bodies after the flesh, and go to their respected sides of the gulf.

 

[ROYAL BLUE]

RB

This is in correct, the spirit is the only part of man that returns to God “and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it – Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. Eccl 12:7.

And the soul await’s to be judged, the story of the rich man. There are not two sides of heaven, the souls on men go to a waiting place, exactly where it is physically located “only God knows†here again we have the story of Lazarus and the Rich Man as an example.

Lazarus dies and is taken to the bosom of Abraham, there is no mention of his burial here. The rich man dies, and he is buried (in Hades, according to verse 23). Lazarus was taken immediately to Abraham's bosom, afterward the rich man was buried in Hades after his death – he was tormented. Further, God told the rich man “if they did not listen to Moses, they would not listen to someone from the dead.

Where is the second chance "he is in torment"

What test are you referring to “provide scripture’s†the test is here and now, not after one is dead. Because we have again Lazarus and the Rich Man as a testimony

If Moses and Elijah were dead, how could the disciples recognize them in their spiritual body? They were not dead and they proved it on the mount.........

Are you serious, Moses has been dead at least a thousand years? Moses died at the age of 120 and did not enter the Promise Land, because of his disobedience.

The Bible states that "Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven 2 Kings 2;11, did he die. The bible does not say, but I am sure he did. And Moses the servant of the LORD died there in Moab, as the LORD had said. Det. 34:5.

Why are you saying they are not dead and what two sides of heaven are you referring to – please provide scripture.

IMO, Moses, Elijah, and Christ were in their spiritual bodies, and I feel Christ wanted to show the disciples what happens to the soul after people die in the flesh; Christ, Moses, and Elijah showed the disciples what their spiritual body will look like after they die.

 

[Dr H..]

JayR

Why would you say that the decision made by God were unjust. Is your opinion based the knowledge of God of your own. I or others could easily say that God made a bad decision in allowing JayRob to be born. However, we are not in the position to say what right or wrong when God makes a decision.
This is what God has to say about your comment / opinions as it relates to the decisions / judgments he has made.

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD. – Isa. 55:8

Translation, Bible

Sinners need to forsake their ways and thoughts (actions and attitudes, v. 7) because they are not God's ways and thoughts. God's way is forgiveness and His thoughts are compassionate “something we fail to understandâ€￾ (v. 7), as far different from those of sinners as the heavens are higher than the earth. Sinners must make a break with their thoughts and ways to have fellowship with a holy God. And sinners need to change their ways and thoughts, actions, behavior and opinions, with the Lord's help, because the word of the Lord is absolutely dependable.

Back Alley Translation

“LOOKâ€￾ Your opinion don’t matter. If you think you can / could have made a better decision, then why you didn’t.

Now you are trying to be like Job and God had an answer for Job. And I am sure if you had an audience with God He would answer you with the same questions He asked Job. Like Job, what you expect is not what you will get.

The Lord charges Job with darkening counsel by words without knowledge.
Can you answer Gods questions concerning, the creation and nature or about His wisdom? Notice 40:1-2:

Shall the one who contends with the Almighty correct Him? Let the one who rebukes God answer the questions posed thus far?

Question: are you thru your wisdom in the position to contend, correct or rebuke God?

If not, like Job “shut up about the decisions made by Godâ€￾

 

[Dr H..]

IMO, Moses, Elijah, and Christ were in their spiritual bodies, and I feel Christ wanted to show the disciples what happens to the soul after people die in the flesh; Christ, Moses, and Elijah showed the disciples what their spiritual body will look like after they die


Maybe, but that not the message there is more to than what you are saying – reading Dr. Luke, use his medical background.

Briefly, we are speaking of the transfiguration “metamorpho [verb]" and it means to transform, literally or figuratively to metamorphose, or to change or change the outside to match the inside. The prefix "meta" means to change and the "morphe" means form. Based on the definition of the word - Jesus' divine nature was " disguisedâ€￾ according to Hebrews 10:20 in human form and the transfiguration was a glimpse of that glory. Therefore, the transfiguration of Jesus Christ displayed the Shekinah glory of God personified in the Son.

Jesus' association with Moses and Elijah, they were the original “liberatorâ€￾ of God's people. The Prophet Elijah {ascended into heaven while still alive} pointed to Jesus' resurrection and ascension. Moses and Elijah had not undergone transfiguration as Jesus had. Luke described them as "men" (Gr. andres) which suggests Jesus' superiority to the greatest leaders in Israel's spiritual history.

Luke described Moses and Elijah as appearing "in glory" or "glorious splendor" / “not necessarily spiritual bodiesâ€￾ and they are surrounded by the glory of Jesus.

There is more

 

[JayRob]

War is going on here. Male babies grow up to be warriors with long memories.


The Midianites were pagans who worshipped gods/goddesses of sex. It was an active part of their worship practices. God did not want Israel to be corrupted in that way.


Wrong. The young girls would simply be slaves for menial tasks. The Law was already given. Adultery was out the window and punishable by death.


Read the passage. As a Midianite male, I would be dead already. As a soldier during that time, I would understand that our loss in battle would likely lead to the direct demise of my entire family. This is Eastern vs. Western thought again.


These are the commands of a loving God in covenant with Israel and not with the Midianites. Read v.7-16. You noted v.17. Moses himself is appalled at the decision by the army to keep the women alive. It was the impetus of the Midianite women that had caused the problem at Peor; and the orders were to "avenge the Lord" for what was done there.

Israel was no great military might. However, when they were obedient to God's commands they were unstoppable.

I'm not at all surprised by this response. I expected one to justify the biblical stories in his/her own way.

And yes, Israel was unstoppable when it came to murdering the innocent under orders by God. If one would just step away from the tree in order to see the forest, if one could do that for a second, they'd see that the atrocities mentioned in the OT would be unconsciounable today.

Question....Would you, in this day and age, take part in the killing of unborn children, the taking of female slaves if someone told you that it was commanded by the OT God to do so? Yes or no.

 

[JayRob]

I agree with most of what you stated, but not all. I disagree with the "disembodied" spirits because I believe all souls step into their spiritual bodies after the flesh, and go to their respected sides of the gulf.

So what's the need for a resurrection? Seems by there being two separate gulfs, judgement has already taken place. One for the good, the other for the bad.

 

[JayRob]

JayR

Why would you say that the decision made by God were unjust. Is your opinion based the knowledge of God of your own. I or others could easily say that God made a bad decision in allowing JayRob to be born. However, we are not in the position to say what right or wrong when God makes a decision.
This is what God has to say about your comment / opinions as it relates to the decisions / judgments he has made.

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD. – Isa. 55:8

Translation, Bible

Sinners need to forsake their ways and thoughts (actions and attitudes, v. 7) because they are not God's ways and thoughts. God's way is forgiveness and His thoughts are compassionate “something we fail to understand†(v. 7), as far different from those of sinners as the heavens are higher than the earth. Sinners must make a break with their thoughts and ways to have fellowship with a holy God. And sinners need to change their ways and thoughts, actions, behavior and opinions, with the Lord's help, because the word of the Lord is absolutely dependable.

Back Alley Translation

“LOOK†Your opinion don’t matter. If you think you can / could have made a better decision, then why you didn’t.

Now you are trying to be like Job and God had an answer for Job. And I am sure if you had an audience with God He would answer you with the same questions He asked Job. Like Job, what you expect is not what you will get.

The Lord charges Job with darkening counsel by words without knowledge.
Can you answer Gods questions concerning, the creation and nature or about His wisdom? Notice 40:1-2:

Shall the one who contends with the Almighty correct Him? Let the one who rebukes God answer the questions posed thus far?

Question: are you thru your wisdom in the position to contend, correct or rebuke God?

If not, like Job “shut up about the decisions made by Godâ€

I have my opinions about the Old Testament, which I've made known, nevertheless, after reading the above info, I'm a bit curious, so I'll ask point blank:
Would you support the same commands by the OT God if someone told you this is what he commanded? Yes or no.

Would you take part in killing babies in the womb to appease this God? Yes or no.

Would you take part in taking young girls as slaves to appease this God? Yes or no.

Would you take part in killing sprees to appease this God? Yes or no?

 

[ROYAL BLUE]

IMO, Moses, Elijah, and Christ were in their spiritual bodies, and I feel Christ wanted to show the disciples what happens to the soul after people die in the flesh; Christ, Moses, and Elijah showed the disciples what their spiritual body will look like after they die


Maybe, but that not the message there is more to than what you are saying – reading Dr. Luke, use his medical background.

Briefly, we are speaking of the transfiguration “metamorpho [verb]" and it means to transform, literally or figuratively to metamorphose, or to change or change the outside to match the inside. The prefix "meta" means to change and the "morphe" means form. Based on the definition of the word - Jesus' divine nature was " disguisedâ€￾ according to Hebrews 10:20 in human form and the transfiguration was a glimpse of that glory. Therefore, the transfiguration of Jesus Christ displayed the Shekinah glory of God personified in the Son.

Jesus' association with Moses and Elijah, they were the original “liberatorâ€￾ of God's people. The Prophet Elijah {ascended into heaven while still alive} pointed to Jesus' resurrection and ascension. Moses and Elijah had not undergone transfiguration as Jesus had. Luke described them as "men" (Gr. andres) which suggests Jesus' superiority to the greatest leaders in Israel's spiritual history.

Luke described Moses and Elijah as appearing "in glory" or "glorious splendor" / “not necessarily spiritual bodiesâ€￾ and they are surrounded by the glory of Jesus.

There is more

.......I agree!

 

[ROYAL BLUE]

So what's the need for a resurrection? Seems by there being two separate gulfs, judgement has already taken place. One for the good, the other for the bad.

Did you not see my posts about the Lord's day and what will be happening for 1,000 years?

 

[Dr H..]

JRob

[IF] I was living back in OT times and was the leader of Israel, absolutely. And if I was under the authority of God’s appointed leader, absolutely, or lied to God as did Saul about killing all of the Amalekites. From that lie Israel suffered. If Saul had fully obeyed God, then Israel would not have suffered.

Why did God command the massacre of the (Example) Canaanites, women and children included?" The problem is we do not fully understand why God would command such a thing, at the same time we must trust God that He is just – and acknowledge that we are incapable of fully understanding a sovereign, infinite, and eternal God.

This is what I have accepted; my knowledge of life is right here and now. I don’t have the foggiest idea of what the next hour (future) holds for me or anyone else. However, God knows the future. God knew what the results would be if Israel did not completely get rid of the Amalekites.

Since Israel did not carry out God’s orders, the Amalekites would and did come back to “punish†the Israelites again and again. Saul claimed to have killed everyone but the Amalekite king Agag (I am reading while responding) [1 Sam. 15:20]. Years later there were enough Amalekites to take David and his men’s families captive [1 Sam. 30]. Then David and his men attacked the Amalekites and rescued their families, 400 Amalekites escaped. Consider if Saul had fulfilled what God had instructed him, this never would have happened. Agag, Haman, tried to have the entire Jewish people exterminated (Book of Esther). So, Saul’s incomplete obedience almost resulted in Israel’s destruction. God knew this would occur, so He ordered the extermination of the Amalekites ahead of time.

The Canaanites, God commanded [the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites] destroy them all. Why God, because they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the LORD your God†[Det. 20:16] Israel failed, and exactly what God said would happen occurred [Judges 2; 1 Kings 11; 2 Kings 16]

God, not order the extermination of these people to be cruel, but rather to prevent even greater evil from occurring in the future.

God ordered the death of children and infants as well. Why children are not innocent (Ps. 51:5] these children would have likely grown up following in the paths of their forefathers practicing evil religions and practices of their parents.

Perhaps, this is one of the reasons God takes a baby at birth, knowing they could grow-up to be a serial killer or being abused by a relative. So God takes the baby to save his soul.

 

[dacontinent]

I'm not at all surprised by this response. I expected one to justify the biblical stories in his/her own way.
...

You don't need the Bible to assess this story. Try some of the historical accounts in other books of the time.

...And yes, Israel was unstoppable when it came to murdering the innocent under orders by God. If one would just step away from the tree in order to see the forest, if one could do that for a second, they'd see that the atrocities mentioned in the OT would be unconsciounable today.
...

You are 100% correct. Just look at the miraculous survival of both Moses (from the Egyptians) and Jesus (from Herod, the Israelite) in the killing of young children. Similar things continue in recent history in Bosnia, China, and several countries in Africa, just to name a few. It was a horrific tactic of pure slaughter ... but it was a rather common practice. The reality is that these orders in the Bible were not done today but thousands of years ago. There was great purpose in those tactics and that purpose is clear when you step back to see the forest. Its not like the Midianites, Jebusites, and [fill-in-the-blank]ites were not doing the same things in their conquests. This is the concept of jihad in action.

When I read the gospels I hear Jesus' disciples wanting to know when they were going to take out the Roman occupation in the same way. Jesus tell them that His is a Kingdom that they don't yet understand. We never read of Him advocating revolt. Instead, we read things from the apostles like:

Titus 3:1-2
3:1 Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates , to be ready to every good work,
2 To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men.​

and

Rom 13:1-7
13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers . For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. 2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: 4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. 5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. 6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing. 7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.​

So...what changed between the OT and NT? Answer: Israel's purpose.

...Question....Would you, in this day and age, take part in the killing of unborn children, the taking of female slaves if someone told you that it was commanded by the OT God to do so? Yes or no.

First of all, no I would not take part in those kinds of orders. That is one reason that I did not follow the military path of most of both my grandfathers, ALL of my uncles, ALL of my male cousins, BOTH of my parents, and my sister. I did not want to be put in that position because of what I know about God's purpose in warfare. Mind you, my sister was the only one of those persons in my family who was not drafted in WWI, WWII, Korea, or Vietnam. They did not have the option of saying no without consequences.
Secondly, I find it interesting that you refer to "the OT God" as if He is different in the NT. Why is that?
Third, rest assured that I do not agree with God on everything...and I tell Him so. I have openly and regularly confessed that to our congregation. However, since I know that He is right, our arguments get shorter each time.

 

[ROYAL BLUE]

Would you support the same commands by the OT God if someone told you this is what he commanded? Yes or no.

Would you take part in killing babies in the womb to appease this God? Yes or no.

Would you take part in taking young girls as slaves to appease this God? Yes or no.

Would you take part in killing sprees to appease this God? Yes or no?

Ezekiel 18:4 "Behold, all souls are Mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is Mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die."

I posted the above verse to show you that God will do as He pleases with "every" soul He created. In other words, God will have His way with people as it pleases Him because He created all living souls; people don't get around to giving their soul to God..........they're His to do as He please. If you can't get over the fact that God commanded righteous killings to the flesh, then what will you say when the very being of a person will be destroyed forever at the hand of God?

Remember, God is on duty 24/7 and there is nothing hidden from His eye; He can hear and see things we can't hear and see. Godly people seek God's protection and guidance 24/7, and if it means death to an enemy of God who wants to harm me in the future; and I have no knowledge of this idiots intention because I don't have the ability to read minds and hearts like God, then praise be to God for destroying the enemy.

 

[illinijag]

Those babies / children go to heaven, per scripture. Will explain later...

This is why I support your statement:

2 Samuel 12:23. But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.

Good Day and God Bless

nev,

I attended men's class last night and the discussion of Guardian angels came up which lead to:

Matthew 18:10. Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.

I don't wish to get into guardian angels, but what this scripture does support is the care, protection and devine hold that God has on Children. When we consider the following scriptures:

Numbers 14:29. Your carcases shall fall in this wilderness; and all that were numbered of you, according to your whole number, from twenty years old and upward which have murmured against me.

Exodus 30:14. Every one that passeth among them that are numbered, from twenty years old and above, shall give an offering unto the Lord.

2 Samuel 12:23. But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.

God has special grace and protection for children. It is my belief, based on scripture, that all children who dies (by any mean) will be received by God into heaven.

The old testament reference the age of 20 and above to be those who will be held to account for their actions and the age when they are to be given adult responsibilities. However, at what age God deems any specific individual to be accountable, I will leave that to God. What I do know is "I am accountable for my actions" and I will be held accountable.


Good Day and God Bless

 

[Dr H..]

JRob

Question: If you do not agree or beleive that man's time on earth is not set, then why are we dieing? I would think if this was not the case there would not be death in the world and we would be able to visit and talk with Adam.

Do you realize the day a man is born, he start dieing,