If Jesus Was Found To Be Black?.......


Status
Not open for further replies.
FAMU CLIFF said:
Angels are our fellow servants and we are higher than them.
Click to expand...

that doesn't seem to be the definition of lower.


“What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?

For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and has crowned him with glory and honour.â€￾ Ps. 8:4-5
 
Last edited:

It has been said the main reason satan was thrown out of heaven is because God loved man so much he raise man above the angels.

Hebrews 2:6-8 (Amplified Bible)
6It has been solemnly and earnestly said in a certain place, What is man that You are mindful of him, or the son of man that You graciously and helpfully care for and visit and look after him?

7For some little time You have ranked him lower than and inferior to the angels; You have crowned him with glory and honor and set him over the works of Your hands,(A)

8For You have put everything in subjection under his feet. Now in putting everything in subjection to man, He left nothing outside [of man's] control. But at present we do not yet see all things subjected to him [man].


Hebrews 2:6-8 (New Living Translation)
6 For in one place the Scriptures say,

“What are mere mortals that you should think about them,
or a son of man[a] that you should care for him?
7 Yet you made them only a little lower than the angels
and crowned them with glory and honor.
8 You gave them authority over all things.”[c]

Now when it says “all things,” it means nothing is left out. But we have not yet seen all things put under their authority.


Footnotes:
Hebrews 2:6 Or the Son of Man.
Hebrews 2:7 Some manuscripts add You gave them charge of everything you made.
Hebrews 2:8 Ps 8:4-6 (Greek version).

Hebrews 2:6-8 (New International Version)
6But there is a place where someone has testified:
"What is man that you are mindful of him,
the son of man that you care for him?
7You made him a little[a] lower than the angels;
you crowned him with glory and honor
8 and put everything under his feet."

In putting everything under him, God left nothing that is not subject to him. Yet at present we do not see everything subject to him.


Footnotes:
Hebrews 2:7 Or him for a little while; also in verse 9
Hebrews 2:8 Psalm 8:4-6

Hebrews 2:6-8 (New King James Version)
6 But one testified in a certain place, saying:


“ What is man that You are mindful of him,
Or the son of man that You take care of him?
7 You have made him a little lower than the angels;
You have crowned him with glory and honor,[a]
And set him over the works of Your hands.
8 You have put all things in subjection under his feet.”


For in that He put all in subjection under him, He left nothing that is not put under him. But now we do not yet see all things put under him.


Footnotes:
Hebrews 2:7 NU-Text and M-Text omit the rest of verse 7.
Hebrews 2:8 Psalm 8:4–6
 
bluedog said:
It has been said the main reason satan was thrown out of heaven is because God loved man so much he raise man above the angels.

Hebrews 2:6-8 (Amplified Bible)
6It has been solemnly and earnestly said in a certain place, What is man that You are mindful of him, or the son of man that You graciously and helpfully care for and visit and look after him?

7For some little time You have ranked him lower than and inferior to the angels; You have crowned him with glory and honor and set him over the works of Your hands,(A)

8For You have put everything in subjection under his feet. Now in putting everything in subjection to man, He left nothing outside [of man's] control. But at present we do not yet see all things subjected to him [man].


Hebrews 2:6-8 (New Living Translation)
6 For in one place the Scriptures say,

“What are mere mortals that you should think about them,
or a son of man[a] that you should care for him?
7 Yet you made them only a little lower than the angels
and crowned them with glory and honor.
8 You gave them authority over all things.â€￾[c]

Now when it says “all things,â€￾ it means nothing is left out. But we have not yet seen all things put under their authority.


Footnotes:
Hebrews 2:6 Or the Son of Man.
Hebrews 2:7 Some manuscripts add You gave them charge of everything you made.
Hebrews 2:8 Ps 8:4-6 (Greek version).

Hebrews 2:6-8 (New International Version)
6But there is a place where someone has testified:
"What is man that you are mindful of him,
the son of man that you care for him?
7You made him a little[a] lower than the angels;
you crowned him with glory and honor
8 and put everything under his feet."

In putting everything under him, God left nothing that is not subject to him. Yet at present we do not see everything subject to him.


Footnotes:
Hebrews 2:7 Or him for a little while; also in verse 9
Hebrews 2:8 Psalm 8:4-6

Hebrews 2:6-8 (New King James Version)
6 But one testified in a certain place, saying:


“ What is man that You are mindful of him,
Or the son of man that You take care of him?
7 You have made him a little lower than the angels;
You have crowned him with glory and honor,[a]
And set him over the works of Your hands.
8 You have put all things in subjection under his feet.â€￾


For in that He put all in subjection under him, He left nothing that is not put under him. But now we do not yet see all things put under him.


Footnotes:
Hebrews 2:7 NU-Text and M-Text omit the rest of verse 7.
Hebrews 2:8 Psalm 8:4–6
Click to expand...


If I may add:

1Co 6:3 -
Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
 
Tony said:
yep,

that word Lower is used each time.
Click to expand...


Heb 2 says the Son of Man (Christ) was made lower than the Angels.


2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
 
FAMU CLIFF said:
Faith and works. Works is keeping the law. I will come back to this in a few when I have some time. You cant attain salvation without keeping the commandments and faith in Christ.
Click to expand...
The works of which you speak are simply obedience to Christ subsequent to the expression faith in Christ. Without faith in Christ, the works of which you speak, though honorable, are void. Simply stated, works are not done to obtain salvation; works are done BECAUSE OF one has obtained salvation.
 
dacontinent said:
The works of which you speak are simply obedience to Christ subsequent to the expression faith in Christ. Without faith in Christ, the works of which you speak, though honorable, are void. Simply stated, works are not done to obtain salvation; works are done BECAUSE OF one has obtained salvation.
Click to expand...


But my original statement was faith and works. So what is the point of this line of discourse if we both agree?
 
FAMU CLIFF said:
Heb 2 says the Son of Man (Christ) was made lower than the Angels.


2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Click to expand...


let me read Psalm 8:4-5 again


“What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?

For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and has crowned him with glory and honour.â€￾ Ps. 8:4-5




What is man that thou art mindful of him?- seems like this is a question about men on earth, and why would anyone be thinking about them


and the son of man, that thou visitest him?- seems like this next question is asking who is Jesus and why does he visit men on earth

For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and has crowned him with glory and honour.â€￾ - Is this the answer to those two questions?

"thou has made him" who is "him" Jesus or earth men

doesn't seem correct for Jesus to be lower than angels.


Or is it referring to both: Men on earth and when Jesus was on earth as a man

meaning @ that time they both were lower than the angels?
 
FAMU CLIFF said:
Faith and works. Works is keeping the law. I will come back to this in a few when I have some time. You cant attain salvation without keeping the commandments and faith in Christ.
Click to expand...

Part of understanding scripture is knowing the different uses of the same words. Ex. original text calls God Elohim (creator), El Rah (all seeing), Jehovah Jirah (provider), etc. Our english bible just says "God" most the time but the original different names gave you more accurate meanings.

Another Ex. The word Love. Orinal text says Agape some places, Phileo some places, and Eros other places but our english text just says the same word Love all the time.

The word "saved" it's the same thing. You have to look at who's using it and how. Saved is used in 3 different contexts: Justification from the penalty of sin (going to heaven), sanctification from the power of sin (our works on earth), and one day glorification from the pressence of sin (heaven).

Justification is faith alone per scripture.
Sanctification is faith + works per scripture.

When James told the people to have faith + works he wasn't talking about how to get justified or go to heaven. They were already Christians (brethren). He was instead encouraging them how to live on earth. He wasn't telling sinners how to become saints, he was telling saints how to become sanctified.

Sinner to saint, saint to sanctified, sanctified to glorified. The same word 'saved' is used everytime though it's used differently.

That said, no one can loose their justification with Christ once they get it. It's faith alone. If your works are a requirement you're definitely going to hell.
 
nevaehinvesting said:
Part of understanding scripture is knowing the different uses of the same words. Ex. original text calls God Elohim (creator), El Rah (all seeing), Jehovah Jirah (provider), etc. Our english bible just says "God" most the time but the original different names gave you more accurate meanings.

Another Ex. The word Love. Orinal text says Agape some places, Phileo some places, and Eros other places but our english text just says the same word Love all the time.

The word "saved" it's the same thing. You have to look at who's using it and how. Saved is used in 3 different contexts: Justification from the penalty of sin (going to heaven), sanctification from the power of sin (our works on earth), and one day glorification from the pressence of sin (heaven).

Justification is faith alone per scripture.
Sanctification is faith + works per scripture.

When James told the people to have faith + works he wasn't talking about how to get justified or go to heaven. They were already Christians (brethren). He was instead encouraging them how to live on earth. He wasn't telling sinners how to become saints, he was telling saints how to become sanctified.

Sinner to saint, saint to sanctified, sanctified to glorified. The same word 'saved' is used everytime though it's used differently.

That said, no one can loose their justification with Christ once they get it. It's faith alone. If your works are a requirement you're definitely going to hell.
Click to expand...

Christ is saying that the law is good until heaven and earth pass. That dies not happen till the descent of new jerusalem (the kingdom , Rev{if that is in dispute,please let me know}). It ONLY passes away at that time because it will be written in our hearts (Heb)Below, Paul is quoting the LAW as dictated in the Old Testament regarding acts (works) which will prevent one from attaining the kingdom.


Mt 5:18 - Show Context
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Lu 16:17 - Show Context
And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.


1Co 6:9 - Show Context
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

1Co 6:10 - Show Context
Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Ga 5:21 - Show Context
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
 

FAMU CLIFF said:
So do you disagree with the requirement to keep the law to enter the kingdom?
Click to expand...
I disagree with the works being needed in order to obtain salvation. It would mean that faith in Jesus Christ was not enough ... that works somehow could save you ... that a person who is incapacitated could be excluded ... that Jesus preached to the spirits who were "in prison" for nothing.
 
FAMU CLIFF said:
So do you disagree with the requirement to keep the law to enter the kingdom?
Click to expand...

dacontinent said:
I disagree with the works being needed in order to obtain salvation. It would mean that faith in Jesus Christ was not enough ... that works somehow could save you ... that a person who is incapacitated could be excluded ... that Jesus preached to the spirits who were "in prison" for nothing.
Click to expand...

what about the whole thing about

the law was just our school master,

and now we have a new convent, built on better promises?
 
FAMU CLIFF said:
Salvation can be had by all through faith and works. The Kingdom is promised to the descendants of Jacob. There is a difference. All the other nations must serve Jacob.
Click to expand...

Just wanted to quote myself to bring to the forefront that I said faith and works. Christ, who I quoted twice above is stating the body of work (doing the law) does not pass till heaven and earth pass. Paul is listing individual aspects of the law, using them as a determination of whom shall not inherit the kingdom. Are Christ and/or Paul in error?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top