Hell Yeah.....Lloyd Carr might retire next week from Michigan
- Thread starter Bane
- Start date
Bane
The Vilian
And whose fault is it when the talent doesn't get developed? Coaches. And speed is not the problem. Michigan has always struggled when playing teams with the spread offense, mainly teams with black mobile QBs. Even going back to D McNabb/Syracuse and Cordell Stewart/Colorado. That's on the coaches. Damn coaches act like they can't make adjustments to save their damn life. How many times can you get beat by a team with a spread offense/mobile QB and not make the proper adjustments. Just plain sad.
Bane
The Vilian
Once Michigan get through with their Staduim upgrades they will move up on that list. I'm also shocked that Penn State is not in the top 10. They have the third biggest stadium in the nation.
JR
Well-Known Member
That is football revenue......that doesn't take in to account that for example Ohio State can tap into George Steinbrenners and Jack Nicklaus pockets for stuff or that Oregon got Phil Knight of Nike as an alum. LSU makes good sports money.....but their overall pockets of their boosters are not as fat as the Michigan boosters pockets. The Ford Family alone is enough to trump any alum or booster LSU has. That's what we are saying. Revenue is one thing. But when you have more and richer boosters that speaks volumes. Texas for an example is just a richer school than LSU. That's why Saban came down and hustle up some stuff. He had deeper pockets believe it or not at Michigan State. So when he came to LSU and saw the condition of the facilities he was :angry::upset: But he got out there and hustled up some money for LSU. A Michigan coach has the checkbooks opened to him the day he takes over. LOL. Its that old Auto and Cereal industry money.
Jax
Chief Trolling offICEr
JR
Well-Known Member
Doubt that.
:lmao: Frat when I tell you them mofos got money they got money. LSU aint nothing compared to the old money flowing through Michigan.
I know Ohio State surely can buy the whole LSU campus and have change left.
LSU just got their arses on the map during the Saban years. They haven't been a player in this game all these years. Their facilities were subpar before Saban and they don't have Florida or Tennessee or Alabama type money either. They are a johnny come lately.
JR
Well-Known Member
Good Point Styles. But a perfect point that I said about recruiting. Donovan McNabb is a Chicago area kid.......went to Syracuse. 2 way sport star at that. Folks forget he played in the Final Four on that Syracuse team against Dampier and the MS State crew that went to the dance that year. Aint no way McNabb should have gotten passed Illinois or Michigan or Wisconsin for that matter. One problem in the Big 10 is that besides Ohio State and now Illinois.........they will not recruit to many black Qbs. Ohio State has had more than any of the Big 10 schools even going back to the Woody Hayes years. But that is a different thread.......
Bane
The Vilian
So true. That's the main reason I don't want Les Miles coming to Michigan. Even though he's recruiting black QBs at LSU, I feel that he will not do the same at Michigan. Those old Michigan farts will have to much influence on him. I can only remember one black QB playing at Michigan and that's was during the Gary Moeller years. That's why I hope Michigan goes out and get someone completely from the outside. Like Ohio State did with Tressel.
Jax
Chief Trolling offICEr
Well...you know the FORD (and possibly Firestone) family will "do what it takes" to get Les back at UM by "any means nece$$ary."
JaguarNation99
That's Dr. JN99 to you...
I wasn't disagreeing with you, I said from jump that Carr's biggest problem is his loyalty to his assistants, most of whom are still operating with a 1990's mentality of overpowering every opponent you line up against. It hasn't been an issue of adjustments, the speed just hasn't been there to stop those teams. Like I said, Michigan is getting left behind in the speed race. That's something whoever the next coach is will have to correct.
JaguarNation99
That's Dr. JN99 to you...
LOL they just have no idea. Hell, the operating budget of the entire LSU system is less than that of the Ann Arbor campus. Michigan is only one of 3 public institutions with a AAA credit rating from Moody's and has somewhere around 9 billion in assets. I'm sure somewhere in there they could find a few million to buy out Miles' contract if it comes to that LOL.
staggalee83
War & Thunder
Forget how much a school is worth.
When you start talking about the Michigans, LSU's, Ohio States, USC, etc., of the world, who got more money is like choosing between apples and oranges.
They all mega rich. :nod:
Do ya'll honestly think LSU can't match a coaching salary put out by Michigan to retain Les if they really wanted to?
Every top teir football factory is paying 9 figures plus extra now.
JaguarNation99
That's Dr. JN99 to you...
That was a different discussion. But obviously it isn't going to come down to how much he wants to make, the point was that if he wants to leave for Michigan, it's nothing LSU could do financially to stop it. Still, like I said from jump, I'm not convinced he's going to leave, nor am I convinced he's some sort of coaching savior. Sure he can get talent, but I haven't seen anything out of him that says he can coach Xs and Os with the best of them. I've seen LSU probably half a dozen times this year, and I can't imagine a single instance where somebody could say, "man Les Miles is coaching circles around the other coach." I watch them lose to a Kentucky team with half the talent, and struggle with inferior teams like Auburn and Alabama.
PsychoJag
We Run The SWAC
I don't see what the fuss about Les Miles is all about anyway. He's not that good of a coach.
JR
Well-Known Member
They can do it. But it is not beneficial for LSU to get into a bidding war with Michigan over Miles. Like I said the Fords can pay Miles' Michigan salary by themselves and not even mess with the schools money. There are not enough LSU boosters that can match dollar for dollar with all them Michigan big shots. That's like Michael Dell saying he can match Bill Gates dollar for dollar. Both are mega rich but Gates is way richer and can drive up the ante that Dell might not want too. That's Michigan and LSU. LSU got money just not Michigan money and it does make a difference when they go head to head for coaches.
Now I seriously doubt either school pays Miles the Saban like money. But I think Michigan may be willing to offer Miles more than LSU is. LSU aint as enamored with Miles as you may think. They may view this is a way to make some money on the deal. Let Miles get Michigan to buy him out and then go get another coach. Miles aint the end all be all coach. LSU could find a good coach to walk right in and continue winning. Miles means more to Michigan folks because he is an alum.....nothing more. What will be really interesting if Tom Osborne comes after LSU DC Bo Pellini who is a Nebraska former assistant with ties to Osborne. That might sway Miles to leave for Michigan if his staff gets raided. Who knows. LSU drops another game and Michigan may sour on Miles or LSU may pack his bags for him.
JR
Well-Known Member
PJ.........I agree. But the Michigan folks want him since he is one of theirs. They know he will have it easier at Michigan and can win there. He is under the gun at LSU especially following Saban and the National Championship he won. Until Miles delivers that to LSU........he will live in Sabans shadow, not to mention have to recruit and coach against the man. I know he won this year......but you know Saban aint going to keep losing to LSU. So that's why I say it is a win win for Miles if he goes home.
JaguarNation99
That's Dr. JN99 to you...
I made the same point when I edited my post. He's been successful, but it's hardly because he's a coaching guru, I'd rather see Michigan give somebody like Bo Pellini a shot.
Bane
The Vilian
I totally agree with you on the 1990's mentality of overpowering opponents. But I still disagree when it comes to the speed. I'm not saying all of the Michigan DBs run 4.2 40s. But they got to run atleast 4.45 or better. And these players are being recruited by other top notch programs. Michigan had 4 defensive players drafted in the first 47 picks last year in the NFL draft. I mean they can't be that slow. And there's no way in hell you're going to tell me that App. State had more speed then Michigan. Wisconsin just whipped Michigan and they are one of the slowest team in D-1 football. Don't get me wrong, speed does make a difference. But when you have bad coaching, I don't care how fast your players are. Look at Miami and Florida State, you think they don't have speed?
Forget Ohio State, Miles is going to have to worry about Illinois as well.
JaguarNation99
That's Dr. JN99 to you...
Wisconsin is far from the slowest team, that TE for one will be a top 15 pick when he leaves. And I can't say that App. State had more speed, but it seemed pretty comparable considering the way they ran up and down the field, which is embarassing. Compared to other elite level programs, this defense is slow, especially the front seven. Look at the way Troy Smith ran around that defense for years, then compare it to the way Florida's DEs ran him down. They got blew out by USC twice in the last 4 years. Oregon ran by them with ease. I agree with you that coaching can be upgraded, but compared to teams like Florida, LSU, USC, Ohio State, this defense is very slow.
You can talk about speed, but look at the offenses some of those teams run. Mostly notably the spread offense has evened the playing field for some of these programs. It's much easier for teams to operate their offense when the defense is spread out. Just look at KU. Who would have ever thought that team could score 70 points in a game, let alone in a season? But that spread offense has helped.
Look at the teams that have beaten Michigan the last few years. All but one, USC, ran the spread offense. Look at who beat Ohio State. Illinois by running the spread offense. If a coach has the players that can execute that offense, along with the speed, it is almost impossible to stop.
JaguarNation99
That's Dr. JN99 to you...
KU hasn't played anyone so that's a bad example. Yes Ohio State has beaten Michigan the last few years by spreading the field, but I wonder why that didn't quite work against Florida. I wonder why is that teams that go to the spread rarely go up and down the field against teams like LSU. I wonder why Spurrier and his fun and gun spread offense got skull drug by Nebraska in 96. Like you said, USC doens't run the spread, but they continually ran by Michigan. I agree that the spread offense can be difficult to defend, which even further highlights the need for a faster defense. I don't think that the relative lack of defensive speed is the only problem, but it's probably the biggest.
Bane
The Vilian
Your right, Wisconsin is far from the slowest team, but comparing that team/talent to Michigan is a joke.
The reason App. State and Oregan ran up and down the field was totally due to coaching and the defensive scheme. When Michigan faces a spread offense they run a 4-2-5 defense. In that defense, 4 DBs are man up on the 4 recievers with one safety over the top. Michigan missed a ton of tackles and once you miss one tackle it's ball game. Why not change it up and run a 3-2-6 or 4-1-6 with two safties over the top or play some kind of zone with some zone/blitzes. It's not rocket science. Michigan coaches don't make the adjustments. Both of those games they ran the same defense. They had all summer to prepare for the spread offense. Just horrible coaching.
Now USC didn't blow Michigan out those games. Both of those games were competitive: 32-18 and 28-14. And a play here and there and they could have been different. Look how USC whipped Arkansas the last two years: 70-17 and 50-14. Those are blow-outs.
JaguarNation99
That's Dr. JN99 to you...
If you play that many DBs you're opening yourself up to being gashed in the running game. Granted, most of those teams ran pretty effectively against the defense too, so that's probably a moot point. Ohio State played mostly zone against Florida last year with no success, you have to be able to run with their receivers in man converage. Some more safety help might give you some relief, but still, you have to be able to match up in man to man. Those USC games weren't nearly as close as the final scores indicated. The 2003 Michigan team could have played the 2003 USC team a hundred times and never would have won a game, they were that much better. They played with USC for a half last year, but as soon as they opened up the offense, they put the game away. I don't disagree with you on coaching, I think on both sides of the ball (especially offense) that Michigan is pretty bland, but still slow in comparison to other teams. The fact that you've compared the winningest program in the history of football to Arkansas of all teams speaks volumes.