Grambling gets letter from NCAA
- Thread starter KRANKin98
- Start date
Dr. Mac
Player
The NCAA is overreaching on this and they know it. Nothing will happen with this. All they are trying to do is send a message to the smaller schools and HBCU's in particular (because they know that some of the kids the big schools go after feel like "they can always go home" if things don't work out) warning them not to entice their athletes away in no way, shape, or form. If the athletes want to leave on their own or after the big schools tell them they no longer fit into their plans, then fine; but otherwise, hands off. That's all that's going on here.
Whether or not Doug's "joking" around with the media was advisable or not is debatable. The message has been sent and this will fade away.
Regards.
Whether or not Doug's "joking" around with the media was advisable or not is debatable. The message has been sent and this will fade away.
Regards.
I am not surprise to see the ncaa come knocking on Dumb Doug (GSU) door. What you fail to realize is that they have the same power as the IRS. The nc azz, will be looking into every inch of the athletic dept. Some rumors I heard from guys at the barber shop is GSU football program isn't windex clean. The ncaa policy is if there is smoke, we will find a fire. Don't get caught. Besides it's no different than talking to other teams players at night at gas station. dang. Go Doug, It's your mistake. What you have done is kill any chance of moving to D1a. You know how we are judge. Remember, they still haven't gotten over "QUARTERBLACK" and now publicly trying to steal a top
(slave/ my bad money maker) from the big boys(ohio st). I say strike two on Doug and GSU...
(slave/ my bad money maker) from the big boys(ohio st). I say strike two on Doug and GSU...
Originally posted by GJOHN
Remember, they still haven't gotten over "QUARTERBLACK" and now publicly trying to steal a top
(slave/ my bad money maker) from the big boys(ohio st). I say strike two on Doug and GSU...
Strike 2? What was strike one? And the book Quarterblack had nothing to do with with NCAA, so how is it that they haven't gotten over it.
MikeBigg
Well-Known Member
Re: Maybe this had something to do with it...
Thanks Kellis. Now looking at those comments, if Doug didn't cross the line he came very close. But still to me it's not a big deal. I honestly don't think the NCAA is doing much more than posturing.
G John: I don't know what warrants the Dumb Doug comment...especially since some of us were trying to have an intelligent discussion. Now some of what you said had some validity to it. Especially the part about the NCAA being forever watchful for possible violations. However, I don't think they do so merely on the basis of race. It is just a case of the NCAA loving to flex their muscle.
I wouldn't put too much stock into the Barbershop talk. Most of those guys have never been to Grambling and know about as much about football as I do about cutting a bald fade. They get bits and pieces of information from "someone who heard another cat say that he was told by somebody" that Grambling is gonna be investigated for signing so many players.
I can tell all of you that Grambling is able to sign so many players because of the name recognition of #1. Grambling (Eddie Robinson) #2 Doug William's MVP of the Superbowl (parents remember) #3 Good Facilities...our weight room and stadium is one of the best in DIAA #4 Playing time (Doug plays youngsters...if you can play, then you play)!
Thanks Kellis. Now looking at those comments, if Doug didn't cross the line he came very close. But still to me it's not a big deal. I honestly don't think the NCAA is doing much more than posturing.
G John: I don't know what warrants the Dumb Doug comment...especially since some of us were trying to have an intelligent discussion. Now some of what you said had some validity to it. Especially the part about the NCAA being forever watchful for possible violations. However, I don't think they do so merely on the basis of race. It is just a case of the NCAA loving to flex their muscle.
I wouldn't put too much stock into the Barbershop talk. Most of those guys have never been to Grambling and know about as much about football as I do about cutting a bald fade. They get bits and pieces of information from "someone who heard another cat say that he was told by somebody" that Grambling is gonna be investigated for signing so many players.
I can tell all of you that Grambling is able to sign so many players because of the name recognition of #1. Grambling (Eddie Robinson) #2 Doug William's MVP of the Superbowl (parents remember) #3 Good Facilities...our weight room and stadium is one of the best in DIAA #4 Playing time (Doug plays youngsters...if you can play, then you play)!
Suge
The Phat Mack
Exactly who isn't free to go anywhere? Football players aren't free? They can't transfer if they want to? They can't quit if they want to? They aren't being given room, board, books, and tuition? When they are hurt, they are mandated to play? They are given the opportunity to have a career as a professional athelete or some other profession of their choosing? I'm still trying to understand how that eqauls being a "top slave"!
What rights and services are under someone elses control? If we are talking about Clarett, the NCAA didn't just pick on Clarett.. HE brought this all on himself. HE violated the rules, and HE got caught. Now HE is paying the price for his actions. he is not some victim who is being controled, and his rights aren't being violated by the NCAA or OSU. What ever happened to personal responsibility!
AAMU Alum
Active Member
All this for holding up a jersey with the number "13" on it? Give me a break! I wish that the d@mned NCAA could be put on probation!! They are beginning to remind me of the L. A. Police Dept.....wanting to bully any and everybody for insignificant bull****!!
There are college programs getting away with murder....LITERALLY, and they are attempting to make a case out of something as trivial as this.....
:smh:
There are college programs getting away with murder....LITERALLY, and they are attempting to make a case out of something as trivial as this.....
:smh:
Bluedog
?But that being said as long as he didn't contact him i don't think there's anything they can do, at least not for that. ?
I maybe incorrect, but if I remember the article ?correctly? Jim Brown acted as an agent for Clarett, he contacted Harris, [contacted Doug], some talk took place on the possibility of the transfer. I am not an attorney, but technically Doug was in contact with Clarett, via Harris & Brown, which is a NCAA violation.
Legal Opinion Anyone
?But that being said as long as he didn't contact him i don't think there's anything they can do, at least not for that. ?
I maybe incorrect, but if I remember the article ?correctly? Jim Brown acted as an agent for Clarett, he contacted Harris, [contacted Doug], some talk took place on the possibility of the transfer. I am not an attorney, but technically Doug was in contact with Clarett, via Harris & Brown, which is a NCAA violation.
Legal Opinion Anyone
AAMU Alum
Active Member
H,
I'm no lawyer, but I don't think that qualifies as "contact." From my understanding, Jim Brown suggested to Clarett and his family that Maurice CONSIDER transferring to Grambling. I never heard anything that sounded like there was actual conversation between Doug and Clarett, or anyone in his family. I could be wrong.
Dr. Mac
Player
The "illegal contact" purpose is the essence of the whole thing, i.e., the perception of luring or enticing a player from another team. In this case, the NCAA is overstepping and a big reason is because of the big school/small school thing I mentioned in the previous post. Ohio State, the Big Ten and all the BCS conferences are going to do what they can to protect their turf. The NCAA is run by them. They got their grip around HBCU's, and the smaller school's necks with regard to getting recruits and they want to keep it that way. It's not just about now but retaining that recruiting advantage and status for the future. This is clearly a case of "keep them in their place."
Would it have been wise for Doug to keep his mouth close and not flash the jersey; probably yes. But given the nature of the whole incident and in light of Ohio State saying that Clarret could leave if he wanted to, the NCAA should consider this as "message sent" and let it go.
Regards.
From what I hear, Andy Geiger, the OSU A.D., is a bigger problem than the media is saying. After all school had a lot of confusing messages on his status last month. Maybe the media should look at the actions of Geiger more closely than they are doing.
As for Williams, he may have come up to the line but may not have crossed it. Here is a word to the wise. Know the rules and watch what you say. As for the NCAA, this is to be expected.
Someone posted this on another message board. Why are there so many questions about how much was stolen from the vehicle instead of how Clarett got the vehicle in the first place?
Hhhhmmmmmmmm......
As for Williams, he may have come up to the line but may not have crossed it. Here is a word to the wise. Know the rules and watch what you say. As for the NCAA, this is to be expected.
Someone posted this on another message board. Why are there so many questions about how much was stolen from the vehicle instead of how Clarett got the vehicle in the first place?
Hhhhmmmmmmmm......
CATMENDUE2
The Cat Catcher II
So many people on here keep
hollering about opportunities at the Div 1A level. Doug if anybody knows its not worth Leaving GSU to go to the 1A level considering whats happened to the others that did. Actually I think Doug is in the best situation now, money is not always a motivator to go somewhere else for a year or two. Doug is a carbon copy of Eddie G Robinson, who was offered many opportunities but, realized that opportunity does not mean security. Doug Know that Willingham and others are only one losing season away from looking for a job. Doug will build a 1A program at Grambling. The payoff for Doug Williams comes later and the GSU family will make sure hes compensated for job well done. I never heard Doug say he was looking for a 1A position, I did hear him say he would listen to what was offered and see if the opportunity was worth making a move. Coaching a 1A team and losing and ultimately ending up, back in Louisiana, how fullfilling does that sound. I bet he will do a lot of soul searching, if that opportunity ever happens in the first place.
hollering about opportunities at the Div 1A level. Doug if anybody knows its not worth Leaving GSU to go to the 1A level considering whats happened to the others that did. Actually I think Doug is in the best situation now, money is not always a motivator to go somewhere else for a year or two. Doug is a carbon copy of Eddie G Robinson, who was offered many opportunities but, realized that opportunity does not mean security. Doug Know that Willingham and others are only one losing season away from looking for a job. Doug will build a 1A program at Grambling. The payoff for Doug Williams comes later and the GSU family will make sure hes compensated for job well done. I never heard Doug say he was looking for a 1A position, I did hear him say he would listen to what was offered and see if the opportunity was worth making a move. Coaching a 1A team and losing and ultimately ending up, back in Louisiana, how fullfilling does that sound. I bet he will do a lot of soul searching, if that opportunity ever happens in the first place.
JR
Well-Known Member
SOG,
Doug is not polished. You need more than coaching ability to work on the 1A level. Especially if you are an African American. That stunt he pulled reminded me of the stuff Archie Cooley used to do. We got to stop all this monkey shine stuff.
If Ty Willingham was at GSU he wouldn't have done that. If Fitz Hill was at Gram, he wouldn't have done that. Even as outspoken as Dennis Green is. He wouldn't have done that. It was not a smart move. Those 1A schools who may be interested in Doug will not like that kind of behavior and that will cause some of them to not hire you. Maybe I am just speaking as a former African American Officer in the Navy and understand how you can't be as good as them, but better than them and have to be polished with your public speaking skills and have some sense of what is appropriate to say or do. Doug does not show that in front of the camera. Remember I posted before that Doug does not have the tact, style and polish that Coach Rob did. It goes along way for (us) to have when you aspire to have those coveted big time jobs.
Now do you understand? This was no smack. I actually like Doug and wish him well. But sometimes he just does not think before he gets in front of a camera or the media. You can't be that way.
MikeBigg
Well-Known Member
I think a lot of you are missing one key point. No where has it been stated that Doug Williams has contacted a Division IA program about an opening. Instead it has been those institution that contacted him about an interview. He owes it to himself and other coaches (Black and White) on the Division IAA level to go for these interviews.
He may never go, but it gives him insight into the interview process. I'm sure that he would willingly share his experiences with his contemporaries. Someday it's going to happen. Maybe not for Doug Williams but for someone. At least it let's other coaches know that they are looking to make the move. Just as importantly, it tells current athletes and former players that the opportunity is at least being discussed. It may be a small thing but that at least is a start.
Personally, I think Doug's objective is build upon the reputation of Grambling and other HBCU's. These interviews not only open the door for coaching opportunities, but also allow them to open dialogue about possible games against some of these programs. For that, I think he is doing a service to his profession and his coaching brethren.
He may never go, but it gives him insight into the interview process. I'm sure that he would willingly share his experiences with his contemporaries. Someday it's going to happen. Maybe not for Doug Williams but for someone. At least it let's other coaches know that they are looking to make the move. Just as importantly, it tells current athletes and former players that the opportunity is at least being discussed. It may be a small thing but that at least is a start.
Personally, I think Doug's objective is build upon the reputation of Grambling and other HBCU's. These interviews not only open the door for coaching opportunities, but also allow them to open dialogue about possible games against some of these programs. For that, I think he is doing a service to his profession and his coaching brethren.
nickderiso
TheDerisoReport.com
Some AP pieces are posted, but these are the original, complete reports on NCAA &
**
And here also is the latest story ... with information on what possible punishment could be involved, and more comments from GSU on Jerseygate ( ):
Please support the people who write about HBCUs by linking back to their original work! If the writers' bosses don't see hits on their Web sites, they don't know that these stories are important to fans like you.
... includes comments, transcript of news conference referenced in NCAA letter, the original story also mentioned by NCAA, the complete wording of the inquiry and every other story written by the Monroe paper about Clarett and Grambling.
**
And here also is the latest story ... with information on what possible punishment could be involved, and more comments from GSU on Jerseygate (
):Please support the people who write about HBCUs by linking back to their original work! If the writers' bosses don't see hits on their Web sites, they don't know that these stories are important to fans like you.
bluedog
"Leader of Kings"
Here's why the Ncaa is on GSU's Jock
13.1.1.3 Four-Year College Prospects
An athletics staff member or other representative of the institution?s athletics interests shall not make contact with the student-athlete of another NCAA or NAIA four-year collegiate institution, directly or indirectly, without first obtaining the written permission of the first institution?s athletics director (or an athletics administrator designated by the athletics director) to do so, regardless of who makes the initial contact. If permission is not granted, the second institution shall not encourage the transfer and the institution shall not provide financial assistance to the student-athlete until the student-athlete has attended the second institution for one academic year. If permission is granted to contact the student-athlete, all applicable NCAA recruiting rules apply. (Revised: 1/10/91, 1/16/93, 1/11/94, 4/26/01)
Associated Enforcement Cases
list of schools who already committed this infraction in the pass
Matching Major Infraction Cases
Sel Date Institution Facts Summary
1. Jun 20, 2001 New Mexico State University Improper arrangements for future employment of a junior college coach as an assistant men's basketball coach; academic fraud; unethical conduct; extra benefits and violations of recruiting and transfer eligibility legislation. [ASSISTANT MEN'S BASKETBALL COACH'S SHOW-CAUSE VACATED BY APPEAL]
2. Jun 01, 2000 California State University, Northridge Recruiting, Extra Benefits, Ethical Conduct, Financial Aid and Lack of Institutional Control.
3. Jan 05, 2000 Tennessee State University Financial Aid, Recruiting, Extra Benefits, Lack of Institutional Control and Ethical Conduct.
4. Jul 31, 1997 Grambling State University Impermissible recruiting contacts; impermissible observation of tryouts and out-of-season practices; improper particpation by two ineligible student-athletes; lack of institutional control.
5. Jul 12, 1994 University of Washington Athletics representatives provided excessive wages; improper recruiting inducements and contact; lack of institutional control.
6. Nov 09, 1993 Virginia Polytechnic Institute & State University Unethical conduct; improper recruiting; improper expenses for ineligible student-athlete; extra benefits.
7. Mar 27, 1991 University of Minnesota, Twin Cities Extra benefits; improper and excessive financial aid; impermissible recruiting; ineligible graduate assistant coaches; lack of institutional control.
8. Nov 10, 1988 Arizona State University Improper financial aid; extra benefits consisting of money, transportation and lodging; false qualifying time provided for championship.
Found 8 Major Infraction Cases
Results on that infraction
Major Infractions Cases
Institution: Grambling State University
Date: 31-JUL-97
Facts Summary: Impermissible recruiting contacts; impermissible observation of tryouts and out-of-season practices; improper particpation by two ineligible student-athletes; lack of institutional control.
Violation Summary: IMPERMISSIBLE RECRUITING AND PLAYING SEASONS: impermissible recruiting contact with transfer student-athletes; impermissible observation of tryouts and out-of-season practices by football coaching staff members; improper skill instruction and recruiting materials provided to prospective student-athletes by a football coach; improper recruiting contact during an evaluation period. ACADEMIC ELIGIBILITY: improper participation by two ineligible basketball student-athletes. LACK OF INSTITUTIONAL CONTROL.
Penalty Summary: FOOTBALL: limit of two coaches who may recruit off campus until 12/31/97; reduction from 56 to 50 official visits for 1997-98; assistant football coach must attend NCAA regional compliance seminar in spring of 1998. MEN'S BASKETBALL: forfeiture of three games won by the institution in which an ineligible student-athlete participated during 1993. WOMEN'S BASKETBALL: forfeiture of all games in which an ineligible student-athlete participated during 1993-94 and 1995-96. Head and assistant coaches must attend intensive rules education sessions with the institution's compliance director; annual reports; recertification.
13.1.1.3 Four-Year College Prospects
An athletics staff member or other representative of the institution?s athletics interests shall not make contact with the student-athlete of another NCAA or NAIA four-year collegiate institution, directly or indirectly, without first obtaining the written permission of the first institution?s athletics director (or an athletics administrator designated by the athletics director) to do so, regardless of who makes the initial contact. If permission is not granted, the second institution shall not encourage the transfer and the institution shall not provide financial assistance to the student-athlete until the student-athlete has attended the second institution for one academic year. If permission is granted to contact the student-athlete, all applicable NCAA recruiting rules apply. (Revised: 1/10/91, 1/16/93, 1/11/94, 4/26/01)
Associated Enforcement Cases
list of schools who already committed this infraction in the pass
Matching Major Infraction Cases
Sel Date Institution Facts Summary
1. Jun 20, 2001 New Mexico State University Improper arrangements for future employment of a junior college coach as an assistant men's basketball coach; academic fraud; unethical conduct; extra benefits and violations of recruiting and transfer eligibility legislation. [ASSISTANT MEN'S BASKETBALL COACH'S SHOW-CAUSE VACATED BY APPEAL]
2. Jun 01, 2000 California State University, Northridge Recruiting, Extra Benefits, Ethical Conduct, Financial Aid and Lack of Institutional Control.
3. Jan 05, 2000 Tennessee State University Financial Aid, Recruiting, Extra Benefits, Lack of Institutional Control and Ethical Conduct.
4. Jul 31, 1997 Grambling State University Impermissible recruiting contacts; impermissible observation of tryouts and out-of-season practices; improper particpation by two ineligible student-athletes; lack of institutional control.
5. Jul 12, 1994 University of Washington Athletics representatives provided excessive wages; improper recruiting inducements and contact; lack of institutional control.
6. Nov 09, 1993 Virginia Polytechnic Institute & State University Unethical conduct; improper recruiting; improper expenses for ineligible student-athlete; extra benefits.
7. Mar 27, 1991 University of Minnesota, Twin Cities Extra benefits; improper and excessive financial aid; impermissible recruiting; ineligible graduate assistant coaches; lack of institutional control.
8. Nov 10, 1988 Arizona State University Improper financial aid; extra benefits consisting of money, transportation and lodging; false qualifying time provided for championship.
Found 8 Major Infraction Cases
Results on that infraction
Major Infractions Cases
Institution: Grambling State University
Date: 31-JUL-97
Facts Summary: Impermissible recruiting contacts; impermissible observation of tryouts and out-of-season practices; improper particpation by two ineligible student-athletes; lack of institutional control.
Violation Summary: IMPERMISSIBLE RECRUITING AND PLAYING SEASONS: impermissible recruiting contact with transfer student-athletes; impermissible observation of tryouts and out-of-season practices by football coaching staff members; improper skill instruction and recruiting materials provided to prospective student-athletes by a football coach; improper recruiting contact during an evaluation period. ACADEMIC ELIGIBILITY: improper participation by two ineligible basketball student-athletes. LACK OF INSTITUTIONAL CONTROL.
Penalty Summary: FOOTBALL: limit of two coaches who may recruit off campus until 12/31/97; reduction from 56 to 50 official visits for 1997-98; assistant football coach must attend NCAA regional compliance seminar in spring of 1998. MEN'S BASKETBALL: forfeiture of three games won by the institution in which an ineligible student-athlete participated during 1993. WOMEN'S BASKETBALL: forfeiture of all games in which an ineligible student-athlete participated during 1993-94 and 1995-96. Head and assistant coaches must attend intensive rules education sessions with the institution's compliance director; annual reports; recertification.
McNeese72
Member
I agree with Dr. Mac. I think the whole thing is been blown out of proportion and nothing will come of it. The letter is just a warning to I-AA schools (not necessarily just HBCU's) that they better be careful not to initiate contacts with I-A athletes looking to transfer. I think Texas St. (SWT) also had such an incident this summer.
Taylor-Made'90
I'm 'Citrix SSO' batch!!!
Maybe this has been asked already, but someone tell me.......
1. What connection does Jim Brown have with Grambling? Isn't he the one who first mention Clarret would do well to go to Grambling?
2. Why would Doug Williams have a press conference holding a '13' jersey, if there had been NO contact with Clarrett, or anybody else(for that matter)????
3. Where's Grambling's AD in all of this? Shouldn't Doug have gotten the AD's permission to hold a press conference??? Or is the AD waving an 'I want Clarrett' sign too.......
:smh:
1. What connection does Jim Brown have with Grambling? Isn't he the one who first mention Clarret would do well to go to Grambling?
2. Why would Doug Williams have a press conference holding a '13' jersey, if there had been NO contact with Clarrett, or anybody else(for that matter)????
3. Where's Grambling's AD in all of this? Shouldn't Doug have gotten the AD's permission to hold a press conference??? Or is the AD waving an 'I want Clarrett' sign too.......
:smh: