FAMU Says It's Not Responsible for Hazing Death of Robert Champion

[ALPHA3]

So what if Robert Champion was 26 years old? Just like he made the decision to join the band fraternity, those people made the decision to kill him.

It might have been stupid for him to join, but the people who killed him should have been smart enough to make the decision not to take his life.







You're saying that Robert Champion should have known right from wrong; what wrong did he do by wanting to join the band fraternity? What wrong did he commit on his part? He decided to join and but didn't sign up to die. So, what right from wrong was he supposed to know? When you joined Alpha Phi Alpha, I'm sure you joined without the possibility of death occuring to you because I'm willing to bet that when you signed you didn't think it would be to that extreme (just like Robert Champion and others who have pledged).
And you say you're willing to bet that he signed some document stating he would not participate in hazing activities......well, where is that document? Surely FAMU would have presented it to argue their case if in fact there actually is a document. And why would FAMU be stupid enough to have Champion (or anyone for that matter) sign a document stating they would not participate in hazing.....AND THEN TURN AROUND AND HAZE FOLKS?

You said yourself that "these were grown ass kids that decided to stay on that bus and do what they did. They knew that crap wasn't legal....." so, there you have it! Robert Champion may have decided to join that band fraternity, but those grown ass kids made the decision to murder him. They should be held accountable for his death because if they'd been smart enough to learn from FAMU past hazings, maybe Champion would still be here today.

You can't let the stupid things other people do cause you to do stupid things!

What did he do wrong? He stayed on that bus with his own CONSENT to participate in a HAZING event that he most likely signed a document stating he WOULD not be involved with. I'm not addressing who and how he was killed. My point is of his own free will he decided to stay on that bus and participate. So you mean to tell that if you were on that bus and some clown is swinging boots, you're going to sit there and get busted upside the head for the sake of being down for the cause? As far as my pledge activities, I knew damn well not to let some clown do something that could have seriously injured me. I cant speak for everyone but I know damn well I wasn't going to let some fool take me out during an event that I gave my consent to participate. Y'all are acting like FAMU told this kid to be on that bus and to be a willing participant.

And for the record, the Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity Inc, does not condone any form of hazing!

 

[jstate83]

:noidea: We shall see, b/c according to what you posted it would seem FAMU doesn't have anything to stand on but apparently...they must since they are fighting the lawsuit.

They faught the last ones and lost badly to the tune of close to $3.5 million.
When this is all over with, FAMU is going to get hammered by the courts, civil courts, and the State.

You heard it here first. :tup:

 

[ALREADY KNOWIN']

FAMU Says It's Not Responsible For Champion's Death

http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/11/justice/florida-famu-hazing/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

FAMU says it's not responsible for drum major's hazing death

By the CNN Wire Staff

updated 11:35 AM EDT, Tue September 11, 2012

(CNN) -- Florida A&M University says it is not responsible for the death of a drum major last year, and that he broke the law and school policies when he willingly took part in the hazing that left him dead.

In court papers filed Monday night, the school asked a judge to drop a wrongful death lawsuit filed by the parents of 26-year-old Robert Champion.

"Mr. Champion should have refused to participate in the planned hazing event and reported it to law enforcement or University administrators," the court documents say. "Under these circumstances, Florida's taxpayers should not be held financially liable to Mr. Champion's Estate for the ultimate result of his own imprudent, avoidable and tragic decision and death."

The student's family lambasted the school Tuesday for denying responsibility.

"The Champion family is shocked at the defense FAMU has chosen in the brutal hazing death of Robert Champion," family attorney Christopher Chestnut said. "We simply cannot ignore the audacity of an institution that blames students for their own deaths, yet for decades ignored the hazing epidemic occurring within its own walls."

FAMU alumni: Wait for 'due process'

New documents in FAMU hazing death

Student: FAMU suspension 'good start'

In a message to CNN, school attorney Richard E. Mitchell said FAMU is not "blaming the victim," but is saying "that his voluntary participation in felony hazing, as a 26 year old grown man and band leader, bars his estate's alleged claim for taxpayer dollars as a matter of law."

 

[southsuburbs]

Re: FAMU Says It's Not Responsible For Champion's Death

There's a good discussion...well semi-good...about this in On Da Yard. The topics keep getting moved over there even though it's a band discussion.

 

[96lioness]

What did he do wrong? He stayed on that bus with his own CONSENT to participate in a HAZING event that he most likely signed a document stating he WOULD not be involved with. I'm not addressing who and how he was killed. My point is of his own free will he decided to stay on that bus and participate. So you mean to tell that if you were on that bus and some clown is swinging boots, you're going to sit there and get busted upside the head for the sake of being down for the cause? As far as my pledge activities, I knew damn well not to let some clown do something that could have seriously injured me. I cant speak for everyone but I know damn well I wasn't going to let some fool take me out during an event that I gave my consent to participate. Y'all are acting like FAMU told this kid to be on that bus and to be a willing participant.

And for the record, the Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity Inc, does not condone any form of hazing!

Never said Alpha did condone hazing. That wasn't my point.

And no, I wouldn't just sit there and allow a gang of folks to bust me up (it's hard to fight off a gang of folks, which is another point in itself). With that being said, I also would not take part in the killing of anyone just because they weren't smart enough to walk away or sign up for something that could kill them, regardless of their consent or not. Again, he may have been a willing participant, but his killers were also willing to take part in his killing. Since Robert Champion wasn't smart enough to walk away, they should have been.

That's my point.

 

[ALPHA3]

Never said Alpha did condone hazing. That wasn't my point.

And no, I wouldn't just sit there and allow a gang of folks to bust me up (it's hard to fight off a gang of folks, which is another point in itself). With that being said, I also would not take part in the killing of anyone just because they weren't smart enough to walk away or sign up for something that could kill them, regardless of their consent or not. Again, he may have been a willing participant, but his killers were also willing to take part in his killing. Since Robert Champion wasn't smart enough to walk away, they should have been.

That's my point.

I feel the same way. I agree the people that participated in this should be held accountable for their actions. I don't think FAMU should be given the full blame in this.

 

[Blankman2k5]

Re: FAMU Says It's Not Responsible For Champion's Death

He was an adult and knew what he was doing. Those that killed him should be prosecuted accordingly but if the school had him sign a contract to not allow himself to be hazed, they are not responsible.

 

[ALREADY KNOWIN']

Re: FAMU Says It's Not Responsible For Champion's Death

He was an adult and knew what he was doing. Those that killed him should be prosecuted accordingly but if the school had him sign a contract to not allow himself to be hazed, they are not responsible.

But did the school have band members sign anti hazing contracts?

 

[Fiyah]

Re: FAMU Says It's Not Responsible For Champion's Death

"Your honor, she asked to be harassed by wearing that short skirt."

"He should have known not to wear a hoodie 'round here."


etc..............

Not the same....

He knew in advance what was going to happen by getting on that bus, he was going to get hazed.

So what if Robert Champion was 26 years old? Just like he made the decision to join the band fraternity, those people made the decision to kill him.

It might have been stupid for him to join, but the people who killed him should have been smart enough to make the decision not to take his life.

You're saying that Robert Champion should have known right from wrong; what wrong did he do by wanting to join the band fraternity? What wrong did he commit on his part? He decided to join and but didn't sign up to die. So, what right from wrong was he supposed to know? When you joined Alpha Phi Alpha, I'm sure you joined without the possibility of death occuring to you because I'm willing to bet that when you signed you didn't think it would be to that extreme (just like Robert Champion and others who have pledged).

And you say you're willing to bet that he signed some document stating he would not participate in hazing activities......well, where is that document? Surely FAMU would have presented it to argue their case if in fact there actually is a document. And why would FAMU be stupid enough to have Champion (or anyone for that matter) sign a document stating they would not participate in hazing.....AND THEN TURN AROUND AND HAZE FOLKS?

You said yourself that "these were grown ass kids that decided to stay on that bus and do what they did. They knew that crap wasn't legal....." so, there you have it! Robert Champion may have decided to join that band fraternity, but those grown ass kids made the decision to murder him. They should be held accountable for his death because if they'd been smart enough to learn from FAMU past hazings, maybe Champion would still be here today.

You can't let the stupid things other people do cause you to do stupid things!

First off , he wasn't trying to join the band fraternity. He was going thru a ritual about crossing the bus. This has nothing to do with the band fraternity.

And yes those grown arse kids knew what they were doing was wrong and the university had nothing to do with them doing that after all they have done in the past.

I get that.....but FAMU decided to have hazing rituals that led to his death. I guess I just think it's stupid that just because someone signs up to get beaten or killed doesn't mean other people have to be stupid enough to indulge in the beatings and/or killings. At what point do people have the insight to not engage in such behavior? I don't care if Champion signed papers or had a sense of wanting to belong......those kids did not have to kill him.

FAMU did not have any hazing rituals, certain members in the band had this ritual.
I would also say that those kids did not kill him in essence, they contributed to the cause of his death.

 

[96lioness]

Re: FAMU Says It's Not Responsible For Champion's Death

I stand corrected......FAMU allowed students (and non-students) who like to hold hazing rituals in their band.

I don't know the letter of the law and I'm not legal-savvy as some on this board, but yeah, those kids in that FAMU band did kill Robert Champion. They beat him to the point where he stopped breathing and his body/brain/organs suffered severe trauma. I may be wrong for looking at this from a moral standpoint and not the legal, but those kids beat Robert Champion and they killed him.

 

[jstate83]

Re: FAMU Says It's Not Responsible For Champion's Death

FAMU look like idiots in the national media. This story started showing up on the front page of every electronic news site in the country. Right about now, they look like Jr. Penn State in the public eye.

No way in hell FAMU should have said this publically. They should have waited and slugged this out in court if this is the stance they gonna take. Now they got months, if not a year for people to talk about them even worse now.

In this day and age, I dare anyone to find 12 people on a jury that are going to side with FAMU on this.
I dare you. :smh:

 

[jag4life]

Re: FAMU Says It's Not Responsible For Champion's Death

But did the school have band members sign anti hazing contracts?

Yep, however, the school also allowed non-students participate in the band and some of those non-students participated in the hazing. FAMU is liable to a large degree.

 

[96lioness]

Re: FAMU Says It's Not Responsible For Champion's Death

Yep, however, the school also allowed non-students participate in the band and some of those non-students participated in the hazing. FAMU is liable to a large degree.

:nod::nod:

 

[Fiyah]

Re: FAMU Says It's Not Responsible For Champion's Death

In this day and age, I dare anyone to find 12 people on a jury that are going to side with FAMU on this.
I dare you. :smh:

Remember that's what McDonald's was saying when they lost the case about a women spilling coffee in her lap and she didn't know that it was hot.

Anything is possible......

 

[jstate83]

Re: FAMU Says It's Not Responsible For Champion's Death

Remember that's what McDonald's was saying when they lost the case about a women spilling coffee in her lap and she didn't know that it was hot.

Anything is possible......

A dude died in this case at a place known for hazing. That McDonalds coffee shat was Political Correctness at its worst back in the late 1990's. You too damm dumb to know HOT COFFEE is HOT, then you deserve to get burned.

Old white lady facing a jury, crying and saying its not her fault.
HBCU Band kills a guy after all the reports of hazing and punishment have been told and retold in the news for years.

Not quite the same as for sympathy. :tup:
FAMU is going to get reemed and anybody that can't see this comming is delousional. Champion is just the spotlight lawsuit in a line of about 15 comming FAMU way. And those are just the civil lawsuits.........not the crimminal court cases comming up.

 

[96lioness]

Re: FAMU Says It's Not Responsible For Champion's Death

^^^^^^^^^AND THERE IT IS!

:tup::clap:

 

[unknown]

Re: FAMU Says It's Not Responsible For Champion's Death

FAMU will lose this case...quite a retarded stance to take after all the negativity already.

 

[chocalate_topaz]

Re: FAMU Says It's Not Responsible For Champion's Death

All this displaced responsibility for this GROWN MAN. I've always said he was too old and should have too grown to even WANT to run up and down a damn bus to be in a band. I hope FAMU does win...if nothing else, make sure that valid points are brought to light and have a cutoff and really good parameters on who is covered, who isn't and at what point they are on their own. It seems that Anti-Hazing Laws need some tightening up.....

 

[jag4life]

Re: FAMU Says It's Not Responsible For Champion's Death

All this displaced responsibility for this GROWN MAN. I've always said he was too old and should have too grown to even WANT to run up and down a damn bus to be in a band. I hope FAMU does win...if nothing else, make sure that valid points are brought to light and have a cutoff and really good parameters on who is covered, who isn't and at what point they are on their own. It seems that Anti-Hazing Laws need some tightening up.....

The guys hazing him were GROWN MEN (24-25) also... and some were GROWN MEN who were not even in school but were allowed to participate.

 

[chocalate_topaz]

Re: FAMU Says It's Not Responsible For Champion's Death

The guys hazing him were GROWN MEN (24-25) also... and some were GROWN MEN who were not even in school but were allowed to participate.

And? That doesn't change the fact that a GROWN man decided to make a bad decision for his life and he thus, share blame in his own demise. We all have opinions, I say when you get grown BE GROWN all the time. Sorry he died, but he had other options.

 

[jstate83]

Re: FAMU Says It's Not Responsible For Champion's Death

The guys hazing him were GROWN MEN (24-25) also... and some were GROWN MEN who were not even in school but were allowed to participate.

Hello............... :lecture:

FAMU got so much stuff stacked against them, whoever gave them the legal advise to release that statement PUBLICALLY before the trial, about not being responsible, need to be fired. That was dumb as he!!. Now the prosecutors that was already on their azzes is going to double and tripple their efforts to go deep up in their backsides. :smh:

 

[96lioness]

Re: FAMU Says It's Not Responsible For Champion's Death

And? That doesn't change the fact that a GROWN man decided to make a bad decision for his life and he thus, share blame in his own demise. We all have opinions, I say when you get grown BE GROWN all the time. Sorry he died, but he had other options.

True.....it doesn't change the fact that Robert Champion made the decision to cross that bus. Grown man or not, just because he made that decision still does not justify his killing since his murderers also had options. When they saw that Robert Champion was not so smart enough to cross that bus, they had the option to be smart and NOT kill him, especially since some of those grown men were NOT FAMU students and also since FAMU has been under fire for hazing rituals earlier that year and in previous years.

They had options just like Robert Champion, only Robert Champion isn't here to express his regret for his bad decision.


Someone posted before that nobody put a gun to Robert Champion's head and made him cross that bus.......well, nobody put a gun to his murderers' heads and forced them to beat him to death either. 2 bad decisions were made.........1 resulted in death.

 

[JR]

Damn...I hate you. I was going to type the exact same thing. I too believe FAMU has a valid argument. I think things have gotten to the point where FAMU is saying "ENOUGH". They have tried every (politically correct) measure to show that they take this issue seriously, but that things have lingered on far enough. We are talking about a 26 year old MAN who was aware of what was taking place but still continued to participate in the hazing practices.

Indeed...FAMU has a valid arguement.

I agree. But some folks think a 26 year old don't have any kind of responsibility.

 

[JR]

This dude was 26 Freakin years old, he should have been some where starting a family and out of school instead of marching his ARSE down a field with a marching band....... WTF!

YEP. I love the band. But no way at 26 years old would I have been marching in the Juke. Now I do think those who committed the hazing should be punished to fullest extent of the law. FAMU Administration does have some answering to do with the culture they have there and we know they are going to have to pay up some money. But that man who lost his life which is very sad, should have known better. No different if he had lost his life if those kids told him to drink a Fifth of Crown straight without stopping. Or gotten drunk from it and took the wheel of a car and killed himself or some other folks. He put himself in a dangerous situation and went against what his band director wanted. All this as a Drum Major who is supposed to be a leader. It is like the old people used to say. Are you going to jump off a cliff because somebody told you to?

 

[JR]

read my entire post. I know he was 26 years old and people do things to "fit in" with the crowd.

BUT................ FAMU was on notice for years about this. They have been on notice every since they paid 3 people $1.5 to $1.8 million way back in 2002. Then on top of that, there has been 12 hazing complaints voiced since 2007 before Champion died and nothing was done by FAMU administration. Band director kick people out, administration sweeps it under the rug to protect the reputation of the 100, and the violators are back to take revenge on the person that told, knowing nothing would be done to them in the end.

How is that not FAMU's fault?
people knew this was going on and ADULTS IN CHARGE did nothing to stop it except turn a blind eye.

http://blogs.findlaw.com/injured/2011/11/famu-hazing-ritual-tied-to-students-death.html

In another hazing incident in 2001, a Marching 100 band member was paddled so hard in an initiation rite, he suffered kidney failure, ABC News reports. The victim of that hazing incident was awarded $1.8 million in a civil lawsuit.

Frat, I understand. And if he was 17-18-19 years old. I would accept that more so than at 26. You want to belong with a bunch of youngsters? Now you and I pledged in a different era. But we both know what we dealt with at 18-19, we would have had a different outlook at 26. I would have been hazing their young punk arses instead of me getting hazed. Fugg the fit in. He should have been leading them mofos around like a puppet on a string.