FAMU Says It's Not Responsible for Hazing Death of Robert Champion

[southsuburbs]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/11/famu-says-its-not-respons_n_1873545.html

FAMU Says It's Not Responsible For Hazing Death Of Robert Champion

The university maintained that it was Champion, not the school, who bears the ultimate responsibility for his death. Champion died last November after he was beaten by fellow members of the famed Marching 100 band aboard a charter bus parked outside an Orlando hotel.

The university asserts that the 26-year-old Champion was a top leader in the band and he should have refused to take part in the hazing ritual.

"No public university or college has a legal duty to protect an adult student from the result of their own decision to participate in a dangerous activity while off-campus and after retiring from university-sponsored events," states the lengthy filing by Richard Mitchell, an attorney with the GrayRobinson law firm hired by FAMU.

Instead, the university maintains that Champion – who it says witnessed others being hazed that night on the bus – consented to the hazing ritual in order to gain respect among fellow band members.

Because of that, FAMU wants a judge to throw out the lawsuit filed against the university by Champion's family or at least delay action on it until criminal charges against Marching 100 band members are resolved. The family also sued the owner and driver of the charter bus where the ritual took place.

"Under these circumstances, Florida's taxpayers should not be held financially liable to Mr. Champion's estate for the ultimate result of his own imprudent, avoidable and tragic decision and death," states the motion filed by the university.

******

Interesting...

 

[ALPHA3]

I'm not an attorney, but it seems as though FAMU has a valid argument.

 

[SAME OLD G]

I'm not an attorney, but it seems as though FAMU has a valid argument.

Damn...I hate you. I was going to type the exact same thing. I too believe FAMU has a valid argument. I think things have gotten to the point where FAMU is saying "ENOUGH". They have tried every (politically correct) measure to show that they take this issue seriously, but that things have lingered on far enough. We are talking about a 26 year old MAN who was aware of what was taking place but still continued to participate in the hazing practices.

Indeed...FAMU has a valid arguement.

 

[jstate83]

I'm not an attorney, but it seems as though FAMU has a valid argument.

Ahh........... Famu paid out over $3 million in hazing court judgement back in the early 2000's. The hazing has still went on. They are responsible. Thats just like a business that pays out a judgement of sexual harrasment but the culture still remains in the company years later, going unchecked.

FAMU need to get off this "not my fault" line with all the stuff from hazing, violations in the athletic department and them millions turning up missing from school budgets. Sometimes you got to look in the mirror and stop blamming YT for what a campus full of AA's are doing.

The Former band director at FAMU said in a interview that he has tossing people and reporting hazing for years at FAMU but administration would not do a thing. JSU tossed half the band out for hazing and the school put them off campus for a year. Message sent. SU kicked mofo's out and let the police have the guilty parties. Message sent. Band director at FAMU said people get zipped and would be back in school and the band like nothing happened.

 

[Jax]

I don't think its going to be that easy. I know justice is blind(supposedly) but please, justice don't be stupid!

 

[ALPHA3]

Ahh........... Famu paid out over $3 million in hazing court judgement back in the early 2000's. The hazing has still went on. They are responsible. Thats just like a business that pays out a judgement of sexual harrasment but the culture still remains in the company years later, going unchecked.

FAMU need to get off this "not my fault" line with all the stuff from hazing, violations in the athletic department and them millions turning up missing from school budgets. Sometimes you got to look in the mirror and stop blamming YT for what a campus full of AA's are doing.

The Former band director at FAMU said in a interview that he has tossing people and reporting hazing for years at FAMU but administration would not do a thing. JSU tossed half the band out for hazing and the school put them off campus for a year. Message sent. SU kicked mofo's out and let the police have the guilty parties. Message sent. Band director at FAMU said people get zipped and would be back in school and the band like nothing happened.

Jstate 83 like Same Ole G just said, dude was 26 years old and he should have known right from wrong. I'm sorry the kid lost his life, but it's only so much FAMU can do to stop this. Did FAMU force this kid to participate in those hazing activities? Dude was a d-major, what else did he have to prove? I'm willing to bet he signed some document stating that he would not participate in hazing activities as a requisite to join the band. These were grown azz kids that decided to stay on that bus and do what they did. They knew that crap wasn't legal. At what point do the kids in that are involved in this type stuff take ownership or responsibility for the things they do. Like I said earlier, I do think FAMU has an argument in this matter.

 

[mighty hornet]

This is very interesting. At the bare minimum, I think blaming the victim will backfire on FAMU (at least in the court of public opinion)

The university maintained that it was Champion, not the school, who bears the ultimate responsibility for his death.

I think that's absolutely WRONG. He didn't kill himself. The folks who beat him to death bear the ultimate responsibility.

 

[TruBluJAG]

This dude was 26 Freakin years old, he should have been some where starting a family and out of school instead of marching his ARSE down a field with a marching band....... WTF!

 

[jstate83]

Jstate 83 like Same Ole G just said, dude was 26 years old and he should have known right from wrong. I'm sorry the kid lost his life, but it's only so much FAMU can do to stop this. Did FAMU force this kid to participate in those hazing activities? Dude was a d-major, what else did he have to prove? I'm willing to bet he signed some document stating that he would not participate in hazing activities as a requisite to join the band. These were grown ass kids that decided to stay on that bus and do what they did. They knew that crap wasn't legal. At what point do the kids in that are involved in this type stuff take ownership or responsibility for the things they do. Like I said earlier, I do think FAMU has an argument in this matter.

read my entire post. I know he was 26 years old and people do things to "fit in" with the crowd.

BUT................ FAMU was on notice for years about this. They have been on notice every since they paid 3 people $1.5 to $1.8 million way back in 2002. Then on top of that, there has been 12 hazing complaints voiced since 2007 before Champion died and nothing was done by FAMU administration. Band director kick people out, administration sweeps it under the rug to protect the reputation of the 100, and the violators are back to take revenge on the person that told, knowing nothing would be done to them in the end.

How is that not FAMU's fault?
people knew this was going on and ADULTS IN CHARGE did nothing to stop it except turn a blind eye.

http://blogs.findlaw.com/injured/2011/11/famu-hazing-ritual-tied-to-students-death.html

In another hazing incident in 2001, a Marching 100 band member was paddled so hard in an initiation rite, he suffered kidney failure, ABC News reports. The victim of that hazing incident was awarded $1.8 million in a civil lawsuit.

 

[southsuburbs]

read my entire post. I know he was 26 years old and people do things to "fit in" with the crowd.

BUT................ FAMU was on notice for years about this. They have been on notice every since they paid 3 people $1.5 to $1.8 million way back in 2002. Then on top of that, there has been 12 hazing complaints voiced since 2007 before Champion died and nothing was done by FAMU administration. Band director kick people out, administration sweeps it under the rug to protect the reputation of the 100, and the violators are back to take revenge on the person that told, knowing nothing would be done to them in the end.

How is that not FAMU's fault?
people knew this was going on and ADULTS IN CHARGE did nothing to stop it except turn a blind eye.

http://blogs.findlaw.com/injured/2011/11/famu-hazing-ritual-tied-to-students-death.html

In another hazing incident in 2001, a Marching 100 band member was paddled so hard in an initiation rite, he suffered kidney failure, ABC News reports. The victim of that hazing incident was awarded $1.8 million in a civil lawsuit.

Here are things I'm speculating....

1. FAMU has probably already tried to settle and the family said "no", so now they are fighting back.

2. I'm sure FAMU realizes that in the court of public opinion, they are already guilty so they are trying to fight it in the legal court...which they might have a chance.

3. I'm sure after the 2001 incident FAMU took precautions to make sure the University is protected so that it can't be held liable (to an extreme number) in future hazing incidents such as Mr. Champion's death. So, back to number1...while FAMU might settle lawsuits...it's probably protected if the case ever actually reaches court b/c at some point...after all the warnings, lectures, and having the students sign papers saying they will not participate in hazing...at some point FAMU has to be able to say, "daymn...they CHOSE to participate even after we said don't".

Again...these are my speculations after watching countless episodes of Law & Order, The Practice, and "A Few Good Men"!! :lmao:

 

[jag4life]

"Your honor, she asked to be harassed by wearing that short skirt."

"He should have known not to wear a hoodie 'round here."


etc..............

 

[mighty hornet]

The Champions claim university officials did not take action to stop hazing even though a school dean proposed suspending the band because of hazing three days before their son died. In its response the university denied that any specific proposal or recommendation was made regarding suspending the band prior to Champion's death.

Somebody's lying.

 

[jag4life]

Somebody's lying.

That Dean has evidence, I think.

 

[southsuburbs]

"Your honor, she asked to be harassed by wearing that short skirt."

"He should have known not to wear a hoodie 'round here."


etc..............

It's not the same thing.

The University took steps to prevent hazing such as holding hazing informationals and having the kids sign the form.

So i would compare it to a company that does training on sexual harassment or discrimination in the workplace and they tell employees the proper steps to take if it occurs. For my company the person can take it to his boss (chain of command) or go straight to main office (doesn't have to take it through chain of command). If a supervisor is notified...the information HAS to be forwarded to the main office even if a complaint isn't filed.

If those steps aren't followed...and then something else happens...the company is covered b/c the required steps weren't followed. If they didn't have knowledge of what was happening how could they prevent it.

 

[96lioness]

Damn...I hate you. I was going to type the exact same thing. I too believe FAMU has a valid argument. I think things have gotten to the point where FAMU is saying "ENOUGH". They have tried every (politically correct) measure to show that they take this issue seriously, but that things have lingered on far enough. We are talking about a 26 year old MAN who was aware of what was taking place but still continued to participate in the hazing practices.

Indeed...FAMU has a valid arguement.

So what if Robert Champion was 26 years old? Just like he made the decision to join the band fraternity, those people made the decision to kill him.

It might have been stupid for him to join, but the people who killed him should have been smart enough to make the decision not to take his life.

Jstate 83 like Same Ole G just said, dude was 26 years old and he should have known right from wrong. I'm sorry the kid lost his life, but it's only so much FAMU can do to stop this. Did FAMU force this kid to participate in those hazing activities? Dude was a d-major, what else did he have to prove? I'm willing to bet he signed some document stating that he would not participate in hazing activities as a requisite to join the band. These were grown ass kids that decided to stay on that bus and do what they did. They knew that crap wasn't legal. At what point do the kids in that are involved in this type stuff take ownership or responsibility for the things they do. Like I said earlier, I do think FAMU has an argument in this matter.

You're saying that Robert Champion should have known right from wrong; what wrong did he do by wanting to join the band fraternity? What wrong did he commit on his part? He decided to join and but didn't sign up to die. So, what right from wrong was he supposed to know? When you joined Alpha Phi Alpha, I'm sure you joined without the possibility of death occuring to you because I'm willing to bet that when you signed you didn't think it would be to that extreme (just like Robert Champion and others who have pledged).

And you say you're willing to bet that he signed some document stating he would not participate in hazing activities......well, where is that document? Surely FAMU would have presented it to argue their case if in fact there actually is a document. And why would FAMU be stupid enough to have Champion (or anyone for that matter) sign a document stating they would not participate in hazing.....AND THEN TURN AROUND AND HAZE FOLKS?

You said yourself that "these were grown ass kids that decided to stay on that bus and do what they did. They knew that crap wasn't legal....." so, there you have it! Robert Champion may have decided to join that band fraternity, but those grown ass kids made the decision to murder him. They should be held accountable for his death because if they'd been smart enough to learn from FAMU past hazings, maybe Champion would still be here today.

You can't let the stupid things other people do cause you to do stupid things!

 

[jag4life]

That Dean has evidence, I think.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...sion-of-band-prior-to-robert-champions-death/

Kirby's notes were in materials obtained through public records request by various media. And while the professor has not discussed his notes, they indicate he sought a long-term suspension to stop hazing practices within the band.

 

[southsuburbs]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...sion-of-band-prior-to-robert-champions-death/

But did he forward those notes or make it known to the University?

 

[mighty hornet]

If they didn't have knowledge of what was happening how could they prevent it.

but did they have knowledge of what was happening?

Hundreds of pages of records reviewed earlier this year by the Associated Press showed years of repeated warnings about brutal hazing passed without any serious response from the school's leadership until Champion died.

 

[southsuburbs]

So what if Robert Champion was 26 years old? Just like he made the decision to join the band fraternity, those people made the decision to kill him.

It might have been stupid for him to join, but the people who killed him should have been smart enough to make the decision not to take his life.







You're saying that Robert Champion should have known right from wrong; what wrong did he do by wanting to join the band fraternity? What wrong did he commit on his part? He decided to join and but didn't sign up to die. So, what right from wrong was he supposed to know? When you joined Alpha Phi Alpha, I'm sure you joined without the possibility of death occuring to you because I'm willing to bet that when you signed you didn't think it would be to that extreme (just like Robert Champion and others who have pledged).

And you say you're willing to bet that he signed some document stating he would not participate in hazing activities......well, where is that document? Surely FAMU would have presented it to argue their case if in fact there actually is a document. And why would FAMU be stupid enough to have Champion (or anyone for that matter) sign a document stating they would not participate in hazing.....AND THEN TURN AROUND AND HAZE FOLKS?

You said yourself that "these were grown ass kids that decided to stay on that bus and do what they did. They knew that crap wasn't legal....." so, there you have it! Robert Champion may have decided to join that band fraternity, but those grown ass kids made the decision to murder him. They should be held accountable for his death because if they'd been smart enough to learn from FAMU past hazings, maybe Champion would still be here today.

You can't let the stupid things other people do cause you to do stupid things!

His "wrong" was that he decided to participate in the hazing activities that led to his death knowing that hazing is illegal.

 

[Kendrick]

So what if Robert Champion was 26 years old? Just like he made the decision to join the band fraternity, those people made the decision to kill him.

It might have been stupid for him to join, but the people who killed him should have been smart enough to make the decision not to take his life.







You're saying that Robert Champion should have known right from wrong; what wrong did he do by wanting to join the band fraternity? What wrong did he commit on his part? He decided to join and but didn't sign up to die. So, what right from wrong was he supposed to know? When you joined Alpha Phi Alpha, I'm sure you joined without the possibility of death occuring to you because I'm willing to bet that when you signed you didn't think it would be to that extreme (just like Robert Champion and others who have pledged).

And you say you're willing to bet that he signed some document stating he would not participate in hazing activities......well, where is that document? Surely FAMU would have presented it to argue their case if in fact there actually is a document. And why would FAMU be stupid enough to have Champion (or anyone for that matter) sign a document stating they would not participate in hazing.....AND THEN TURN AROUND AND HAZE FOLKS?

You said yourself that "these were grown ass kids that decided to stay on that bus and do what they did. They knew that crap wasn't legal....." so, there you have it! Robert Champion may have decided to join that band fraternity, but those grown ass kids made the decision to murder him. They should be held accountable for his death because if they'd been smart enough to learn from FAMU past hazings, maybe Champion would still be here today.

You can't let the stupid things other people do cause you to do stupid things!

I agree. Thats like a cat who rapes and kills a street walker by mentioning how she asked for it by the way she dressed or her attitude. just because Robert was 26 or agreed to go through hazing doesn't justify his band mates killing him.

 

[96lioness]

His "wrong" was that he decided to participate in the hazing activities that led to his death knowing that hazing is illegal.

I get that.....but FAMU decided to have hazing rituals that led to his death. I guess I just think it's stupid that just because someone signs up to get beaten or killed doesn't mean other people have to be stupid enough to indulge in the beatings and/or killings. At what point do people have the insight to not engage in such behavior? I don't care if Champion signed papers or had a sense of wanting to belong......those kids did not have to kill him.

 

[jag4life]

But did he forward those notes or make it known to the University?

He was in a meeting with administrators. These were is notes from the meeting.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-07-06/dean-famu-hazing/56066024/1

Kirby's notes seem to support former FAMU police chief Calvin Ross' recollection of what occurred at the Nov. 16 meeting.

Ross told the Sentinel several weeks ago that he and Kirby recommended the band be suspended and not be allowed to perform at the Classic — recommendations that Ross said he had assumed would be shared with university President James Ammons prior to the Classic.

Kirby wrote in his notes that he had assumed that the administrators who called the meeting would brief Ammons.

After the Sentinel printed an article last month about Ross' recollection of the Nov. 16 meeting, Ammons sent a prepared statement to the Sentinel saying that officials who participated in a meeting about hazing in the band decided, as a group, to deal with hazing in another way.

They decided that the "proper course of action" was to call members of the band together to remind them that they had signed anti-hazing agreements and that hazing was a felony, Ammons said in the June 14 statement.

"No member of the team told me they disagreed with the group's ultimate decision and course of action," Ammons wrote. "Rest assured that we are making a real good-faith effort to settle this entire matter with the Champion family, but to date no settlement has been reached, and so I must follow the advice of legal counsel in not commenting further at this time."

Kirby wrote in his notes that, during the Nov. 16 meeting, former band director Julian White said he did not want to suspend the entire band before the Classic. Ross had remembered that White opposed the idea of suspending the band.

 

[southsuburbs]

I get that.....but FAMU decided to have hazing rituals that led to his death. I guess I just think it's stupid that just because someone signs up to get beaten or killed doesn't mean other people have to be stupid enough to indulge in the beatings and/or killings. At what point do people have the insight to not engage in such behavior? I don't care if Champion signed papers or had a sense of wanting to belong......those kids did not have to kill him.

"FAMU" didn't have hazing rituals, but I feel ya on the rest.

 

[southsuburbs]

He was in a meeting with administrators. These were is notes from the meeting.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-07-06/dean-famu-hazing/56066024/1

:noidea: We shall see, b/c according to what you posted it would seem FAMU doesn't have anything to stand on but apparently...they must since they are fighting the lawsuit.

 

[jag4life]

:noidea: We shall see, b/c according to what you posted it would seem FAMU doesn't have anything to stand on but apparently...they must since they are fighting the lawsuit.

The lawyers they hired are obligated to present a case.