FAMU Says It's Not Responsible for Hazing Death of Robert Champion


JR said:
Frat, I understand. And if he was 17-18-19 years old. I would accept that more so than at 26. You want to belong with a bunch of youngsters? Now you and I pledged in a different era. But we both know what we dealt with at 18-19, we would have had a different outlook at 26. I would have been hazing their young punk arses instead of me getting hazed. Fugg the fit in. He should have been leading them mofos around like a puppet on a string.
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You had mofo's that was just as old as Champion doing the hazing. Some of the people charged are 23, 24, 25 years old. Not exactly a band full of 18 and 19 year olds.

If I took ya'll view, then no school or organization is responsible for hazing because I dare you to find one school that don't make kids sign anti-hazing statements.

JSU had those things and half the drum section and band still got kicked out of the band and school. If ya'll think those anti-hazing statements are going to carry weight in FAMU's favor, ya'll crazy. FAMU better have a big azz checking account. They gonna need it with all the payouts they gonna be giving out to hazing victims. You got 13 mofo's charged in the Champion incident alone. Nobody has even discussed all the other mofo's charged in different hazing complaints within the 100 since Champions death.
 
Re: FAMU Says It's Not Responsible For Champion's Death

jag4life said:
Yep, however, the school also allowed non-students participate in the band and some of those non-students participated in the hazing. FAMU is liable to a large degree.
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Now when it comes to the non-students that they allowed to participate in the band and as a result those students were allowed to contribute to the hazing that led to the death of Mr. Champion; yes FAMU if flat out guilty in contributing to the circumstances that led to Mr. Champion's death. This whole thing is just all the way around mucked up. We can continue to debate our points but the bottom line is ol' boy is dead and there were things that could've been done to prevents this that were overlooked. If the family of the young man believes that FAMU should make a generous payment to them, if that payment is going to make them feel better i say FAMU go on ahead and make the payment.
 

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I do not think no one has sympathy for his loss, but the simple fact that the family is trying to sue the university vs. making sure those students are persecuted for the death of their son, I side with FAMU on this one. Just because he died does not mean the family should be grossly paid for this untimely death. As a drum major, he knew what time it was. Everyone keeps accusing FAMU, but we are all alumni of our schools and are apart of several organizations. Your school cannot stop you from coming to the yard, or sitting near the band, or coming to a game, or going to someone's dorm room. If that kind of power existed, we would have less crime in the world because that is what you call a super power or 24-hour surveillance on each individual. Those that are present are the ones that take responsibility. At some point a person must make the right decision.

Only way I find the school responsible is if the BAND as a whole had a known ritual that was illegal in which the school turned a deaf ear on. But a ritual that is not recognized by the school? It plays along an organized gang in which all of the people involved happened to go to the same school.

It is unfortunate situation, tragic. But a punishment to the school in form of a million dollar payout to the family is simply not fair. Now a honarary degree awarded to the family, a scholarship in his name granted by the univsersity, funded legislature to the state by the school to pressure harsher punishment to prevent illegal acts such as these, that aligns with this heinous act.
 
There are 13 people charged and over 400 associated with the band. A minority of band members participate in hazing by their choice. Not only did the school have them sign anti-hazing pledges, the general counsel and campus police chief warned the whole band in person a day before leaving for Orlando that hazing would not be tolerated and if it occurred the perps would be prosecuted. Mr. Champion was also an officer in the Red Dawgz, a known underground org that hazes. So what if it comes out in court he is a known hazer? Not much of a victim.

Could the school have done more? Yes. Did they put safeguards in place? Yes. Will the school be shown to share some responsibility? Yes. But the order will be the perps, mr champion then FAMU. Under civil law, you establish damages and assign relative responsibility.

Court records show other band members tried to stop Champion but he insisted he wanted to participate. His loss. And by the way, his parents had disowned him because he was gay and had no contact with their son. A jury will love to hear that.
 
And The school is trying to settle, but the greedy ass parents who didn't even speak to their son thinks they are going to hit powerball. So now the son and family will now be dragged through the mud. The school has absorbed the worst of the PR hit. Now it is their turn.
 
FAMU CLIFF said:
And The school is trying to settle, but the greedy ass parents who didn't even speak to their son thinks they are going to hit powerball. So now the son and family will now be dragged through the mud. The school has absorbed the worst of the PR hit. Now it is their turn.
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They are speaking this week in DC on an anti-hazing panel.
 
FAMU CLIFF said:
There are 13 people charged and over 400 associated with the band. A minority of band members participate in hazing by their choice. Not only did the school have them sign anti-hazing pledges, the general counsel and campus police chief warned the whole band in person a day before leaving for Orlando that hazing would not be tolerated and if it occurred the perps would be prosecuted. Mr. Champion was also an officer in the Red Dawgz, a known underground org that hazes. So what if it comes out in court he is a known hazer? Not much of a victim.

Could the school have done more? Yes. Did they put safeguards in place? Yes. Will the school be shown to share some responsibility? Yes. But the order will be the perps, mr champion then FAMU. Under civil law, you establish damages and assign relative responsibility.

Court records show other band members tried to stop Champion but he insisted he wanted to participate. His loss. And by the way, his parents had disowned him because he was gay and had no contact with their son. A jury will love to hear that.
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Apparently the band ignored the warnings from the general counsel & campus police, just like they ignored whatever consequences from the previous months & years of the hazing that took place. You said yourself FAMU could have done more, but they didn't. So apparently whatever is in place isn't working because the hazing still continues at the university. And since FAMU allowed non-students in their band, and since FAMU could have done more & failed to do so even with all those measures in place, it is apparent FAMU lacks institutional control.

As for Robert Champion's parents disowning him because he was gay.....if this is true, any attempts at reconciliation are now dead just like he is.

A person is dead behind this......regardless of his sexual orientation, his relationship with his parents, regardless of his reasons to cross that bus, regardless of whatever other organizations he belonged to......those folks still made the decision to beat him & kill him.
 
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But those folks are not the school. The school is not responsible for every action by students. There is precedence here, as this is by far not the first hazing death in America. Please show me where the school was held primarily responsible for the death of a student at the hands of another student due to hazing. Also the same level of responsibility can be attributed to greek orgs. They sanction the intake activity and provide warnings and students still do what they do.

The students were educated about hazing, signed a contract not to participate and were warned several times after and there WERE suspensions in one of the sections a few weeks before. A chosen LEADER in the band, Robert Champion, ignored all that and made a choice to be hazed. How is the school more responsible for his death than he?
 
FAMU CLIFF said:
..... Mr. Champion was also an officer in the Red Dawgz, a known underground org that hazes. So what if it comes out in court he is a known hazer? Not much of a victim.

Court records show other band members tried to stop Champion but he insisted he wanted to participate. His loss. And by the way, his parents had disowned him because he was gay and had no contact with their son. A jury will love to hear that.
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How do you know he was an officer in the Red Dawgz? And if he is in that org what makes you think that he was an active participant in the hazing that goes on? His parents disownerd him because he was gay? How relevant is that in this discussion?
 
I know people that knew him well. It is relevant to the damages the parents suffered from their loss and demonstrates how lack of their guidance and support caused him to seek the negative approval of others voluntarily through the illegal hazing process.

See, their attorney floated the story he was hazed because be was gay, which had no merit. Now we know the true result of his lifestyle. Abandonment by his parents.
 
FAMU CLIFF said:
I know people that knew him well. It is relevant to the damages the parents suffered from their loss and demonstrates how lack of their guidance and support caused him to seek the negative approval of others voluntarily through the illegal hazing process.

See, their attorney floated the story he was hazed because be was gay, which had no merit. Now we know the true result of his lifestyle. Abandonment by his parents.
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Well I don't think his parents disowning him (if that's even true) has merit in this case b/c the lawsuit is against FAMU...not his parents. However, I do think it will matter that he was part of an organization that has papertrails of hazing incidents in that band alone; ie the student hist high bone was broken was trying to become a member of Red Dawgs. Also...the story that he supposedly attempted to join other organizations that involved hazing incidents. Sooooo...again, he aint squeaky clean in this situation. Like I said in the first post, this is interesting. B/c most people, when discussing hazing cases always want to know when is the "victim" going to get disciplined or be held accountable for participating in hazing activities like the person doing the hazing. And basically...that's what FAMU is saying in this case. Mr. Champion was a willing participant in an illegal activitiy.
 
It doesn't matter if every person in America lines up to get hazed, as long as the ignorant fools in any organization hazes, the organization will get sued and be held responsible. I hope they make every mofo in every group in America pay for this shyt. Just like gangs, these groups are the same. Lock all their azzes up and their mommas too.. :clap:
 
FAMU CLIFF said:
But those folks are not the school. The school is not responsible for every action by students. There is precedence here, as this is by far not the first hazing death in America. Please show me where the school was held primarily responsible for the death of a student at the hands of another student due to hazing. Also the same level of responsibility can be attributed to greek orgs. They sanction the intake activity and provide warnings and students still do what they do.

The students were educated about hazing, signed a contract not to participate and were warned several times after and there WERE suspensions in one of the sections a few weeks before. A chosen LEADER in the band, Robert Champion, ignored all that and made a choice to be hazed. How is the school more responsible for his death than he?
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The school is responsible for actions by its officials who allowed non-students to participate in a school organization. That anti-hazing contract is only worth as much as a jury deems it to be worth.
 
ALREADY KNOWIN' said:
Botherman, God protects babies and fools. just because he was 26 years old doesn't means that he knew how to go about living a responsible life.
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Wait so you're saying he didn't have the mental capacity to understand that the hazing acts he was about to participate in were against FAMU guidelines? So had this been a case of him being involved in a bank robbery or some other type of crime with the same outcome, no fault should be placed on him?

I don't know anything about how this guy was raised or the conditions he went through growing up, but I know as for myself and my siblings we were raised to understand right from wrong and were fully aware of the consequences if we decided to do wrong. Knowing that whippings awaited us from our parents and both sets of grandparents were enough for me to understand that doing wrong was not an option. This is partly the reason why when I was 26 I knew enough to live a responsible life.
 

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southsuburbs said:
Well I don't think his parents disowning him (if that's even true) has merit in this case b/c the lawsuit is against FAMU...not his parents. However, I do think it will matter that he was part of an organization that has papertrails of hazing incidents in that band alone; ie the student hist high bone was broken was trying to become a member of Red Dawgs. Also...the story that he supposedly attempted to join other organizations that involved hazing incidents. Sooooo...again, he aint squeaky clean in this situation. Like I said in the first post, this is interesting. B/c most people, when discussing hazing cases always want to know when is the "victim" going to get disciplined or be held accountable for participating in hazing activities like the person doing the hazing. And basically...that's what FAMU is saying in this case. Mr. Champion was a willing participant in an illegal activitiy.
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It impacts damages. When the parents speak to the loss of their son from their lives and you make them explain that they already kicked him out of their lives.
 
jag4life said:
The school is responsible for actions by its officials who allowed non-students to participate in a school organization. That anti-hazing contract is only worth as much as a jury deems it to be worth.
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I believe only one bus C person charged was not in school, so that had no impact on his death.
 
FAMU CLIFF said:
I know people that knew him well. It is relevant to the damages the parents suffered from their loss and demonstrates how lack of their guidance and support caused him to seek the negative approval of others voluntarily through the illegal hazing process.

See, their attorney floated the story he was hazed because be was gay, which had no merit. Now we know the true result of his lifestyle. Abandonment by his parents.
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That his parents disowned him because he was gay has nothing to do with this case. FAMU as an institution is guilty in this case because there were students who weren't enrolled in school but were still allowed to participate in the band who contributed to the circumstances that led to Mr. Champion's death. All that other stuff doesn't matter. What matters is thatit appears that there were no checks and balances on who could and couldn't participate in the activities of the marching band. Since there were no checks and balances rules were laxed and look what happened.

Like I said, FAMU should just pay the parents How ever much it is that they're asking for. And then FAMU do like the phoenix; rise from the ruins.
 
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ALPHA3 said:
Wait so you're saying he didn't have the mental capacity to understand that the hazing acts he was about to participate in were against FAMU guidelines? So had this been a case of him being involved in a bank robbery or some other type of crime with the same outcome, no fault should be placed on him?

I don't know anything about how this guy was raised or the conditions he went through growing up, but I know as for myself and my siblings we were raised to understand right from wrong and were fully aware of the consequences if we decided to do wrong. Knowing that whippings awaited us from our parents and both sets of grandparents were enough for me to understand that doing wrong was not an option. This is partly the reason why when I was 26 I knew enough to live a responsible life.
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Brotherman all I'm saying is that it speaks volums about a person's mental compacity if they're 26 years old and still in a college marching band and are willing to submit themselves to hazing. That person may know right from wrong but somewhere in there they haven't advanced past the maturity level of an adolescent. I wouldn't count on a person who subjects themselves to hazing at 26 to make the best choices in life.
 
ALREADY KNOWIN' said:
That his parents disowned him because he was gay has nothing to do with this case. FAMU as an institution is guilty in this case because there were students who weren't enrolled in school but were still allowed to participate in the band who contributed to the circumstances that led to Mr. Champion's death. All that other stuff doesn't matter. What matters is thatit appears that there were no checks and balances on who could and couldn't participate in the activities of the marching band. Since there were no checks and balances rules were laxed and look what happened.

Like I said, FAMU should just pay the parents How ever much it is that they're asking for. And then FAMU do like the phoenix; rise from the ruins.
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Pay whatever someone wants? That sounds like a plan.

We have already taken the PR hit. Enrollment is almost 13K and our ranking are fine. We took their best shot. Why pay money just to pay. There is a process for assessment of damages, case history and legal precedence. Those are the best practices which should be followed. And to be honest, the Travon Martin killing happening near Orlando really hurt their case as it took over the news cycle and limited their ability to generate negative press.
 
FAMU CLIFF said:
Pay whatever someone wants? That sounds like a plan.

We have already taken the PR hit. Enrollment is almost 13K and our ranking are fine. We took their best shot. Why pay money just to pay. There is a process for assessment of damages, case history and legal precedence. Those are the best practices which should be followed. And to be honest, the Travon Martin killing happening near Orlando really hurt their case as it took over the news cycle and limited their ability to generate negative press.
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Champion's death happened at the end of November. The trayvon situation happened in early February and picked in steam mid March. The FAMU case picked up plenty of steam between when it first happened and the Trayvon Martin situation. If it goes to court FAMU's gonna be found negligent due to the fact that they didn't do enough to safeguard student members of its institution from the threat of hazing. Not only are we talking about Mr. Champion we're also talking about the young lady that got her thighbone broken due to band influenced hazing. And then add on top of that the fact that there was someone who wasn't even enrolled in school but yet was still allowed to participate in school-related activities; the lack of oversight allowed that person(s) to contributed to Mr. Champions death.

I understand wanting to defend a prideful organization but there comes a time when some institutions find themselves in situations that are indefensiable. This is one of those times. I say pay them the money to make them go away. If you don't pay them the money they will continue to drag your organization through the mud. There are no winners in this situation.
 
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