Covid 19- HBCUS Enrollments FALL 2020

[LAW DAWG]

Dr. Ruth Simmons is a jewel ... PV is so lucky to have her. Everything about PVAMU has improved since her taking office.

TSU is falling further behind without permanent leadership. At first I was upset Dr. Lane was forced out but I later realized it was for the best because he wasn't ambitious enough. We need someone who clearly states they want TSU to be a top institution ... he never said that and didn't really seem like it was happening outside of our campus looking more top tier. Dr. Simmons is showing us she wants PVAMU at the top.

He said as much during the 2016 National Alumni Homecoming Meeting. Cooperation is essential for presidents to be successful. Dr. Simmons is getting that from the TAMU system regents, but Dr. Lane did not from ours. If the next one doesn't it will be more of the same regardless of his or her stated goals.

 

[tsugraytiger]

He said as much during the 2016 National Alumni Homecoming Meeting. Cooperation is essential for presidents to be successful. Dr. Simmons is getting that from the TAMU system regents, but Dr. Lane did not from ours. If the next one doesn't it will be more of the same regardless of his or her stated goals.

When I read Dr. Lane strategic plan for TSU, NONE of it read he wanted TSU to be highly regarded or highly ranked. It was all basic low-level type improvements .... nothing really ambitious enough to take us to the next level. If you look at the type of companies that currently recruit at TSU it's sad because reputation needs improvement ... TSU is a great school and the world needs to be reminded of that as much as possible.

In case you didn't know. TSU is ranked the 47 best HBCU right now. The largest HBCU in Texas with all the resources and things we have is ranked 47th! That's terrible and he totally ignored it. And not to say that rankings are factual because they are not but it does tells us how the outside world sees us ... we need to play the game better.

 

[LAW DAWG]

When I read Dr. Lane strategic plan for TSU, NONE of it read he wanted TSU to be highly regarded or highly ranked. It was all basic low-level type improvements .... nothing really ambitious enough to take us to the next level. If you look at the type of companies that currently recruit at TSU it's sad because reputation needs improvement ... TSU is a great school and the world needs to be reminded of that as much as possible.

In case you didn't know. TSU is ranked the 47 best HBCU right now. The largest HBCU in Texas with all the resources and things we have is ranked 47th! That's terrible and he totally ignored it. And not to say that rankings are factual because they are not but it does tells us how the outside world sees us ... we need to play the game better.

Gray,

I don't mean to be argumentative with you, but you moved the goal post. At first you said you never heard him say it, now you're talking about what you didn't read which are two different things.

Please post the link to that 47th rank amongst HBCUs you mentioned. I would like to know the source and the metrics used for their outcome.

 

[tsugraytiger]

Gray,

I don't mean to be argumentative with you, but you moved the goal post. At first you said you never heard him say it, now you're talking about what you didn't read which are two different things.

Please post the link to that 47th rank amongst HBCUs you mentioned. I would like to know the source and the metrics used for their outcome.

I never heard him mentioned it in any form of fashion is my point.

As I stated the popular rankings are honestly BS because there's a lot ignored when coming up with them but it does lets us know how the general public will view the institution so we must play the game. Optics matter. I remember at my second job at this rental car place in college ... I was not doing much of any real work but I needed to pretend I was to get by ... it worked.

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/texas-southern-university-3642/overall-rankings

 

[JAGSC]

Ranking are BS. The list does not change . SU is not even ranked in the TOP 30, YET,
*Largest Producer of BSN, MSN,PH.D in nursing all HBCU'S
*Top 7 in Engineering all HBCUS
*Top 50 rank nationally in MS in Rehab Services
*Top 10 nationally in MS and PHD Urban Forestry
* Top 50 rank nationally in PHD Environmental toxicology
*Top 30 Nationally rank PHD Public Policy
*Top 5 Math and Science Educators all HBCU
*TOP 4 Agricultural Science all HBCU
* Top Rank Law School HBCU

There are some HBCUs ranked in the top 10 that doesn't have this resume.

 

[LAW DAWG]

Ranking are BS. The list does not change . SU is not even ranked in the TOP 30, YET,
*Largest Producer of BSN, MSN,PH.D in nursing all HBCU'S
*Top 7 in Engineering all HBCUS
*Top 50 rank nationally in MS in Rehab Services
*Top 10 nationally in MS and PHD Urban Forestry
* Top 50 rank nationally in PHD Environmental toxicology
*Top 30 Nationally rank PHD Public Policy
*Top 5 Math and Science Educators all HBCU
*TOP 4 Agricultural Science all HBCU
* Top Rank Law School HBCU

There are some HBCUs ranked in the top 10 that doesn't have this resume.

Those rankings have always been garbage, and I'm fairly certain many PWIs share that same sentiment.

Those responsible for evaluating have never stepped foot on our campuses, and they definitely don't take into account the challenges and needs of students at HBCUs.

 

[Earle]

There is one metric used in most hbcu rankings that one should be aware of. This one ranking can cause a lot of frustration, and could possibly explain why some schools with fewer resources might be ranked higher than comparable schools with seemingly greater resources. A school receives high marks for its "graduation rate." If your grad rate is very high, your metrics will rise tremendously even if your other areas of measurement are only average. Since I am most familiar with Southern University, I will use her as as example. In a recent national ranking, SU had a graduation rate of 30% although its other metrics were comparable to other public and SWAC hbcus. Two other hbcus had grad rates of 38% and 36%, and these metrics resulted in their rankings being much higher than SU's, although they were similar in every other metric evaluated. In that same national ranking, an Atlanta hbcu (I believe it was Spelman) was ranked first, largely because it has a grad rate of 100%. National ranks give much credence to universities who gradute its students. If your school's graduation rate would start to rise, you would see a rise in its rankings as well.

 

[ghostwriter]

Dr. Ruth Simmons is a jewel ... PV is so lucky to have her. Everything about PVAMU has improved since her taking office.

TSU is falling further behind without permanent leadership. At first I was upset Dr. Lane was forced out but I later realized it was for the best because he wasn't ambitious enough. We need someone who clearly states they want TSU to be a top institution ... he never said that and didn't really seem like it was happening outside of our campus looking more top tier. Dr. Simmons is showing us she wants PVAMU at the top.

Simmons at TSU would’ve been deadly as she would be in thick of things socially and politically but that ain’t happening as for folks like that you gotta get out the way and A&M system doesn’t care about PV’s daily doings unless they force them to do so. Slade at TSU has proven when you get a likable and connected person in there things change. Athletically, Simmons won’t put it at the forefront so it better Be able to hold its own. However, her day is coming to an end so who’s next is going to be the big one.

There’s a book on the history of TSU floating around and TSU was in position to be the black UT as they were promised a medical, dental and law school once founded as part of the Sweatt ruling. One thing that stood out though the state placed a former PV president in WR Banks on the board and he single handily did his best to keep TSU from growing and surpassing Prairie View at the time with regulations no one could explain. He put a rule in place no PV employees could leave PV and work at TSU without going somewhere else for a year. They eventually stalled the dental and medical school successfully knowing that was the difference maker in terms of growth. Fast forward to 2020 and you see the same issues.

TSU was at 11k in the 90s so it can be done but there has to be some autonomy in place so a president can do that. Stabilize that area and everything falls in place as enrollment won’t be an issue. You sell opportunity and access in Houston. You get that that right and play the political game in town things change instantly

 

[JAGSC]

That is why I feel that some of this administrators should not be paid what they are paid. A lot of our people just get into these jobs with no vision, just trying to do the bare minimum. That is the main problem. I understand people are so quick to talk about funding etc. But we have to much technology and advancements where reaching our alumnus and the outside community (academies, business, etc)should be at the forefront... We must hire people and put them in place to excel our universities. No vision is to small.

I was talking to a friend about this the other day. If you gave a HBCU 50 million (Southern) and then gave a PWI (SELA) who would get the better return/investment. That is why putting people in place is so important. I give another example. Southern has prob the best nursing program in the state, and among HBCU's yet the program is not online. Most hospitals make nurses with ADN degrees get a BSN within 3 years. Nursing should of been online years ago. Second Most PWI, have the 4 + 1 programs where students in business can get a (MBA) in a year. Or students in Sociology or Psychology could get a Master's in Social Work etc.. Another thing is Ed.D or Ph.D especially in Education should be offered at Most of our HBCU'S. Most students are not getting Master's in Engineering, but what a lot of (PWI) are doing is offering certifications courses. Most top engineering jobs are looking for this in today's workforce (stem) My uncle grad at SU in engineering and got two certifications at John Hopkins. I say all this to say, we have to get better at expanding.

 

[Storm96]

There’s a book on the history of TSU floating around and TSU was in position to be the black UT as they were promised a medical, dental and law school once founded as part of the Sweatt ruling. One thing that stood out though the state placed a former PV president in WR Banks on the board and he single handily did his best to keep TSU from growing and surpassing Prairie View at the time with regulations no one could explain. He put a rule in place no PV employees could leave PV and work at TSU without going somewhere else for a year. They eventually stalled the dental and medical school successfully knowing that was the difference maker in terms of growth. Fast forward to 2020 and you see the same issues.

So its all PV's fault!

Before the Sweat ruling and before TSU even existed, the State of Texas authorized the establishment of medical, pharmacy, law schools etc at Prairie View. You're being a bit disingenuous by drawing an equivalence between WR Bank's eternal love for Prairie View (and his motives on the board at TSU) to the hollow promises that were also made to PV from the State. I don't think that Banks had that kind of power. Even if he did look out for the interests of PV, I don't see how he or PV is the reason for TSU's past and present issues (which largely have been self-inflicted the last 40 years). That would be like us blaming Black Houston leaders for conspiring with the state to steal the law and pharmacy schools intended for PV and using them to establish TSU; thereby stunting our growth today. We can all talk about "what ifs". Where would TSU be today had it had a medical school? TSU has had the law school, pharmacy school and location over PV and there hasn't been a significant difference in enrollment over the last 20 years. Or considering the fact that PV was already the Black Flagship in the 40s; what would our trajectory be had the professional schools been added to compliment our land grant status and we remained the only public HBCU in Texas? Its an interesting discussion either way but at the end of the day, nothing's going to change the past. It's best to figure out how to move forward. A good name goes a long way.

 

[ghostwriter]

So its all PV's fault!

Before the Sweat ruling and before TSU even existed, the State of Texas authorized the establishment of medical, pharmacy, law schools etc at Prairie View. You're being a bit disingenuous by drawing an equivalence between WR Bank's eternal love for Prairie View (and his motives on the board at TSU) to the hollow promises that were also made to PV from the State. I don't think that Banks had that kind of power. Even if he did look out for the interests of PV, I don't see how he or PV is the reason for TSU's past and present issues (which largely have been self-inflicted the last 40 years). That would be like us blaming Black Houston leaders for conspiring with the state to steal the law and pharmacy schools intended for PV and using them to establish TSU; thereby stunting our growth today. We can all talk about "what ifs". Where would TSU be today had it had a medical school? TSU has had the law school, pharmacy school and location over PV and there hasn't been a significant difference in enrollment over the last 20 years. Or considering the fact that PV was already the Black Flagship in the 40s; what would our trajectory be had the professional schools been added to compliment our land grant status and we remained the only public HBCU in Texas? Its an interesting discussion either way but at the end of the day, nothing's going to change the past. It's best to figure out how to move forward. A good name goes a long way.

Location is the biggest threat for others and PV’s issues. But it was founded due to separate but equal so they were entitled to the same things UT had.

- it’s on the books that UH’s existence was threatened by TSU as UH was private for quite some time but the state never funded TSU like it should. Once TSU was going to take off UH scattered to go public and the rest is history. When they talked about a merger UH would’ve had to take on TSU’s name due to TSU being there first.

TSU’s board was integrated from day one so that was a surprise and why would Banks even need to be on the board unless there was an agenda? See where I’m going?

PV’s benefit is no meddling board and you can do what you need and they’ve taken full advantage. The drawback is Texas A&M will always be priority so some things they don’t watch like they should compared to college station or Aggies have their hands on behind the scene things like contracts, etc. their thing now is how to handle being a suburban campus and keep folks motivated as it’s almost too nice and spoils you.

If TSU gets the president and board ever on the same page they could flourish quickly as you’ll always be in a strong position politically and socially. It’s more appealing for a student outside Houston and the state to attend TSU

 

[tsugraytiger]

Simmons at TSU would’ve been deadly as she would be in thick of things socially and politically but that ain’t happening as for folks like that you gotta get out the way and A&M system doesn’t care about PV’s daily doings unless they force them to do so. Slade at TSU has proven when you get a likable and connected person in there things change. Athletically, Simmons won’t put it at the forefront so it better Be able to hold its own. However, her day is coming to an end so who’s next is going to be the big one.

There’s a book on the history of TSU floating around and TSU was in position to be the black UT as they were promised a medical, dental and law school once founded as part of the Sweatt ruling. One thing that stood out though the state placed a former PV president in WR Banks on the board and he single handily did his best to keep TSU from growing and surpassing Prairie View at the time with regulations no one could explain. He put a rule in place no PV employees could leave PV and work at TSU without going somewhere else for a year. They eventually stalled the dental and medical school successfully knowing that was the difference maker in terms of growth. Fast forward to 2020 and you see the same issues.

TSU was at 11k in the 90s so it can be done but there has to be some autonomy in place so a president can do that. Stabilize that area and everything falls in place as enrollment won’t be an issue. You sell opportunity and access in Houston. You get that that right and play the political game in town things change instantly

TSU was never in the 11K in the 90s. I just looked at the 1996 - 1999 enrollment and they all below 8K. TSU reached its peak in the 2000s during my era

It's very possible ... white people have pitted black people against each other since slavery. And in many ways TSU is the black UT ... we're one of the most comprehensive black universities in the nation just like UT is among the most comprehensive public universities in the nation.

 

[LAW DAWG]

Location is the biggest threat for others and PV’s issues. But it was founded due to separate but equal so they were entitled to the same things UT had.

- it’s on the books that UH’s existence was threatened by TSU as UH was private for quite some time but the state never funded TSU like it should. Once TSU was going to take off UH scattered to go public and the rest is history. When they talked about a merger UH would’ve had to take on TSU’s name due to TSU being there first.

TSU’s board was integrated from day one so that was a surprise and why would Banks even need to be on the board unless there was an agenda? See where I’m going?

PV’s benefit is no meddling board and you can do what you need and they’ve taken full advantage. The drawback is Texas A&M will always be priority so some things they don’t watch like they should compared to college station or Aggies have their hands on behind the scene things like contracts, etc. their thing now is how to handle being a suburban campus and keep folks motivated as it’s almost too nice and spoils you.

If TSU gets the president and board ever on the same page they could flourish quickly as you’ll always be in a strong position politically and socially. It’s more appealing for a student outside Houston and the state to attend TSU

Some good synopsis about TSU Ghost. The state of Texas cut funding to TSU by 40% after they realized the inevitability of losing the Sweatt vs. Painter case, and it has been an uphill struggle for TSU every since.

Sidebar: Texas Southern has always had to remain vigilante to remain in existence and independent. The previous governor, Rick Perry, put a committee together to determine if TSU should be placed in a system. This came about on the heels of his predecessor, George Bush, declaring TSU should remain independent. Fast forward to the present, one of the members on that committee is now the chairman of our board. He claims his recommendation was for TSU to remain independent.

 

[Storm96]

TSU’s board was integrated from day one so that was a surprise and why would Banks even need to be on the board unless there was an agenda? See where I’m going?

By the time WR Banks served on TSU's board he had already spent more than 20 years leading Prairie View (and Texas College before that) and had an established record of chairing conferences that served Black educators and administrators. He was the leading voice in education in Texas during the 30s and 40s so it's not surprising that he would be on the board. By your own admission, TSU's board was integrated from the start. But it seems like you're only questioning why a well qualified Black man was on the board but have no problem with those southern whites (in 1940s Texas no doubt). Do you seriously think they had TSU's best interest at heart?

 

[LAW DAWG]

TSU was never in the 11K in the 90s. I just looked at the 1996 - 1999 enrollment and they all below 8K. TSU reached its peak in the 2000s during my era

It's very possible ... white people have pitted black people against each other since slavery. And in many ways TSU is the black UT ... we're one of the most comprehensive black universities in the nation just like UT is among the most comprehensive public universities in the nation.

Check the enrollment numbers under President William Harris (1988-1993). He grew enrollment from around 7k to over 10k.

 

[tsugraytiger]

Check the enrollment numbers under President William Harris (1988-1993). He grew enrollment from around 7k to over 10k.

I believe you. Enrollment only matters when you retain most of the students that come which we have a hard time doing. I will say that TSU campus seems to be most lively when we have over 10K students which we haven't had in a while.