College Rankings Are Out....


truthteller

truthteller

The Critic
Liberal Arts Colleges: The nation's 218 liberal arts colleges emphasize undergraduate education. The Carnegie Foundation has redefined a liberal arts school as one that awards at least half its degrees in the liberal arts.

Regional Universities (Masters): These 573 universities tend to draw students heavily from surrounding states. They provide a full range of undergraduate- and master's-level programs, and few, if any, doctoral programs.

National Universities: There are 249 universities in the country that offer a wide range of undergraduate majors as well as master's and doctoral degrees; many of the schools on this list strongly emphasize research.

Comprehensive Colleges: There are 322 comprehensive colleges. These institutions focus on undergraduate education and offer a range of degree programs?in the liberal arts, which account for fewer than half of their bachelor's degrees, and in professional fields such as business, nursing, and education.

Tier 1 = Excellent
Tier 2 = Good
Tier 3 = Average
Tier 4 = Poor



From the annual college rankings by US News & World Reports, the results for 2002 are as follows.....

SWAC

Tier 1

Tier 2
1. Alcorn State University - Regional University

Tier 3
1. Alabama A&M University - National University
2. Mississippi Valley State University - Comprehensive College
3. University of Arkansas -Pine Bluff - Comprehensive College

Tier 4
1. Alabama State University - Regional University
2. Grambling State University - Regional University
3. Jackson State University - National University
4. Prairie View A&M University - Regional University
5. Southern University - Regional University
6. Texas Southern University - National University

MEAC

Tier 1
1. Hampton University - Regional University

Tier 2
1. Bethune-Cookman College - Comprehensive College
2. Florida A&M University - Regional University
3. Howard University - National University
4. North Carolina A&T University - Regional University

Tier 3
1. Delaware State University - Regional University
2. Morgan State University - Regional University

Tier 4
1. Coppin State College - Regional University
2. Norfolk State University - Regional University
3. South Carolina State University - National University
4. University of Maryland-Eastern Shore - Regional University

SIAC

Tier 1
1. Tuskegee University - Regional University

Tier 2
1. Miles College - Comprehensive College

Tier 3
1. Clark-Atlanta University - National University
2. Kentucky State University - Regional University
2. Morehouse College - Liberal Arts College

Tier 4
1. Albany State University - Regional University
2. Fort Valley State University - Regional University
3. Lane College - Liberal Arts College
4. LeMoyne-Owen College - Comprehensive College
5. Paine College - Liberal Arts College
6. Savannah State University - Regional University
 
That's an interesting list :eek: Nice to see Alcorn with a top showing! But Southern and especially Prairie View as T-4 really seems a little suspect....
 

Yeah, I am really shocked to see Southern and Prairie View as Tier 4 too. But I think that we need to do a little better collectively as a conference. We have too many schools in the Tier 4 category.
 
I am surprised to see TSU in tier 4 especially considering the number of successful Pharmacist, Teachers, Lawyers and business professionals the university turns out.
Somebody is learning something or our graduates would not pass the state mandated licensing exams for many of their chosen professions.


Truth:

Where did you get this? I am interested to see the criteria used in assigning the designations.
 
I'm surprised to see us, PV, or GSU as Tier 4. I find that very suspect.


What site can you go to the find the ranking of a major at a particular school?
 
Is this you alls first time hearing about these annual rankings? I've been checking them since 1997. Anyway, here is the link...

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/rankings/rankindex.htm

I understand what you're saying about TSU, but for some reasons other than the fact that they turn out alot of professionals... they have always been ranked Tier 4 since I've been checking every year. Grambling State made the Tier 3 rank in 2000. Jackson State was ranked Tier 3 in 1999. Southern and Prairie View have always been Tier 4.
 
This poll is CRAZY...

how in the hell is MILES COLLEGE ranked ahead of Morehouse and CAU which are two of the best colleges in America.
 
Just because you've always heard of Morehouse and Clark-Atlanta.....that does not make them rank among the best in America. Now, back in the day....they probably were ranked higher. But things have kinda changed now. Spelman is ranked Tier 2, but Morehouse is a step below. Another thing you have to consider is that Clark-Atlanta is now considered a National University. Now, when you try to get up there with the big schools (meaning schools that offer the more than the average number of programs on the graduate level), it's gonna be hard to get a rank above 3. You really gotta be on your stuff. Morehouse is a Liberal Arts College...meaning that it is known nationally for it's bachelor's degrees. Whereas, comprehensive colleges like Miles are not known nationally for it's B.S. degrees, but focus on undergraduate education....not graduate education. They received a good grade for that.
 
Hey Truth,

There is something skewed with this poll. I am not trying to be funny, but MVSU is NOT a comprehensive university. I have been to and collaborated with people from a number of the colleges/univerisities mentioned, and I know the info doesn't mesh correctly.
 
No, chocolatetopaz. You've misunderstood. MVSU is a comprehensive college. It's not what the State of Mississippi dubs Mississippi State as, which is a "Comprehensive University." Read the definition to what a comprehensive "college" is. College status is different from university status. In all honesty, MVSU should be termed MVSC, but Mississippi got ahead of itself and just gave it university status when it truly wasn't that. They do not offer very many graduate programs. It's all about undergraduate education at MVSU now. I understand that you have collaborated with several people from a number of these institutions, but I'm sorry.....these are the results. If there is any skewness going on, then it lies within the university itself, because the information is completed by the each university and submitted on a yearly basis. Now, I've checked this ranking every year since 97' and I have seen some changes by the year with some schools. But most of our conference schools are having a hard time getting out of Tier 4.

Example of changes... Alcorn State started out in Tier 4 back in 97 & 98. But in 99 & 00, we were Tier 3. In 01, we fell back into Tier 4 due to the fact that our university officials did not complete the information and submit it. This is what happens when a university doesn't comply with completing the surveys. There is always a little notation to let you know whether or not a school completed/submitted the info. Well, we not only completed and submitted the survery for this year, but we improved dramatically. So like I said, flaws of the study lies within the school. All of the info submitted is posted on the net for you to see.
 
Originally posted by truthteller
Just because you've always heard of Morehouse and Clark-Atlanta.....that does not make them rank among the best in America. Now, back in the day....they probably were ranked higher. But things have kinda changed now. Spelman is ranked Tier 2, but Morehouse is a step below. Another thing you have to consider is that Clark-Atlanta is now considered a National University. Now, when you try to get up there with the big schools (meaning schools that offer the more than the average number of programs on the graduate level), it's gonna be hard to get a rank above 3. You really gotta be on your stuff. Morehouse is a Liberal Arts College...meaning that it is known nationally for it's bachelor's degrees. Whereas, comprehensive colleges like Miles are not known nationally for it's B.S. degrees, but focus on undergraduate education....not graduate education. They received a good grade for that.
Click to expand...

Truthteller,

I dont care WHAT YOU SAY, you cant tell me that Miles is on the level of Morehouse and CAU in ANYTHING dealing with academics. I am not going by what I heard, I attended CAU and took classes at Morehouse and I live an hour from Miles. Miles is nothing more than a Birmingham community college. If you asked somebody from Birmingham if they were going to Miles that would be an insult. I have been to 3 Universities. NONE can compare to CAU as for academics. Clark Atlanta has VERY GOOD teachers. I love AAMU to death and I now attend Tenn St but NEITHER schools professors could hold a stick to CAUs.
 
Sonice98.... I just didn't feel like posting the CIAA at that time. I will get back to them eventually.

Dahill... Now there you go. You are missing the point as well. These rankings are not based solely on academics. They take every single thing into consideration. Now, did you get that? I'm not saying Miles is better than Morehouse or Clark-Atlanta. You need to refer to the site to fully understand what I'm talking about. Miles is a "comprehensive college" just like Mississsippi Valley State University. Now, if Miles College was put in the Regional University, National University, or Liberal Arts College College categories, it would be sure to receive a Tier 4 ranking. On the flip side, if Morehouse College and Clark-Atlanta were put in the "comprehensive college" category...they would rank Tier 1 easy. I need you to refer to the site and read the information before jumping the conclusions. Can you do that? Sure you can.
 
Truthteller

U Posted the rankings in the wrong order on this page and on the Fifthquarter page.


The tiers are designated by what level your university is classified in.

So according to them Howard Univeristy is the best HBCU because it is a National University.

So your rankings should read like this

National Univerisities
Tier 2
1. Howard University


Tier 3
1. Clark-Atlanta
2. AA&MU
3. TNSU


Tier 4.
1. Jackson State
2. SCSU


and so forth.............

Then they are ranked by whether they are a liberal arts, regional univeristy, and then comprehensive college
 
Yes, it could have been posted that way Aggie for life. But I wanted to do it by conferences, so the people could easily find his/her school. That was the purpose of designating and defining which class each university was in. And no...you are still interpreting wrong. Yes, that would make Howard the best HBCU in it's class. But that doesn't mean that it is a better school than Hampton wholistically. Howard just offers more graduate programs. Offering more graduate programs to put yourself in the national category doesn't make one a better quality school. Like I said before, the tiers aren't based solely on quality/number of academics. The categories are set up based on number of academic programs...not quality. Please read further into the site.

National Universities....wide range of undegrad programs, master's programs, and ample doctoral programs..

Regional Universities....wide range of undergrad programs, master's programs, and few if any doctoral programs..

Liberal Arts Colleges...known nationally for it's bachelor's degrees in liberal arts field - with few in other fields and few grad programs

Comprehensive Colleges... offers bachelors degrees with very few grad prgrams
 

Iceman, my statement was made to clarify facts.


Truthteller

I have read these publications ever since I first heard about them because I like to how they view HBCUs.

Second by your logic Harvard and Princeton are not considered the best schools in this country. These schools are ranked number one adn two respectively,Nationally. A school being in the National catergory, according to this system, makes them a supposedly better school. The National category is comprised of Liberal Arts, Comprehensive, and Regional Universities. It is the only category like that. Each of the other categories only comprise each schools that fits in each designated category.


Third, I do not personally care about what confernce a school is in. Competing of football fields, basketball courts, and what confernce school is in has nothing to do with what type of education a school offers.
 
Evidence

An article to back up my argument:

HOWARD UNIVERSITY DEEMED "GREAT SCHOOL AT GREAT PRICE"

Washington, D.C. (September 6, 2001)--Howard University, one of only 48 private doctoral/Research-Extensive universities in the nation, ranks 28th among 49 U.S. national doctorate-granting universities deemed "Great Schools at Great Prices" in the Sept. 17th "America?s Best Colleges" issue of U.S. News & World Report.


The ranking includes only the universities ranking in the top half of their categories. Howard is a Tier II national university (out of four tiers), the highest ranking among any of the nation?s Historically Black Colleges and Universities (HBCUs). Only 50 universities met the criteria for inclusion in the "Best Value" ranking.


Howard University President H. Patrick Swygert said, "Our inclusion among the nation?s "best values" in higher education reaffirms our historical mission: to provide the very highest quality education to young men and women of great intellect and leadership potential. Our effort to make this experience affordable underscores our commitment to ensure that students who meet our high standards have every opportunity to take full advantage of the University?s exceptional educational programming.


The University also was called a "school where the price is right" by Newsweek magazine in August 1997.


"I am encouraged that our focus on technology, research and leadership all enhance the ?value? of a Howard education," Swygert added. "Our freshman enrollment increased 20 percent this year alone."

According to the magazine, the rankings were based on a formula that relates a school?s academic quality as indicated by the U.S. News & World Report ranking, with the net cost of attendance for a student who receives the average level of financial aid. "The higher the quality of the school?s academic program and the lower the cost to the student," the magazine notes,
"the better the deal."

Howard shares its ranking with Brown University in Rhode Island. Other schools appearing on the "best values" list include: California Institute of Technology, Harvard University, Stanford University, Prince University,Yale University, Columbia University and Massachusetts Institute of Technology.


Howard University, located in Washington, D.C., comprises 12 schools and colleges. Founded in 1867, the University?s 10,700 students today enjoy academic pursuits in more than 120 areas of study leading to
undergraduate, graduate and professional degrees. The University continues to attract the nation?s top students and produces more on-campus African-American Ph.D.s than any other university in the world. Since 1998, the University has produced a Rhodes Scholar, a Truman Scholar, three Fulbright Scholars and four Wilson Fellows.


In addition to President H. Patrick Swygert, Howard?s notable alumni include: the late U.S. Supreme Court Justice Thurgood Marshall; the first African-American
governor, L. Douglas Wilder; Nobel Laureate and Pulitzer Prize-winning author Toni Morrison; former Alliance Capital Management International chairman (and Howard Board of Trustees chairman) Frank Savage; former United Nations Ambassador and former Mayor
Andrew Young; Emmy Award-winning actress Phylicia Rashad; opera diva Jessye Norman; actress and director Debbie Allen; and the first African-American president of the American College of Surgeons, Dr. LaSalle Leffall, Jr.
 
This is causing nothing but trouble and confusion.

If Truthteller posted them by conference, then that's his decision!! Nobody can tell him how to post his topic. It's actually easier to find your school <b>by conference!!!</b>

Some people are never satisfied no matter how you explain it to them. Good job, Truthteller. You at least <b>went through the trouble of posting the rankings</b> instead of being a critic.
 
I, personally, wouldn't read too much into these dumb rankings

"L", some of the dumbest peeps that I've met (seriously) were MIT, Stanford, and Berkley grads. Total airheads. Black, white, chinese, indian, ... Just dumb and totally clueless. I guess that the 2.07 gpa that they sported @ their univs made them, well, .... You know.

If it's (drive, determination, intelligence, hunger, achievement, knowledge, ...) in you, it's in you. I don't think, to a certain degree, it matters where you retrieve the informational knowledge from (I'm not talking social aspects of HBCU vs PWCU).

Wouldn't you concur Dr. EB?

PhD cand Panthro!
 
Aggie...

Now, you don't have to get upset about this. Just accept what has been given to you. Now, I don't know what school you represent, but whatever it is....it is just what the ranking said it is. Aight? My purpose for posting this was not to compare the universities between classes to see who's better. Why have you guys turned it into this? I just want people to see how we as HBCU's are faring amongst the others. But...nahhhhhh...you gotta get on here and get all unhappy for whatever reasons I don't know. You don't have to clarify anything. These people know how to read. That's why I posted the link. But to dig deeper into what you've started...I just wanna say a couple things. Just because a university offers a couple Ph.D. programs and is in the National University category....that doesn't make it a quality school. You can't sit up here and tell me that a Tier 4 National Univeristy (with probably 2 Ph.D programs away from being a Regional University) is of better quality than a Tier 1 or even a Tier 2 Regional University. You can't sit up here and tell me that. That's why you can't just say.... "Aight, the National Universites are first." You've gotta understand that the only thing weighed to be placed in that category is number of academic programs. So, in this case....QUALITY (which is the purpose of TIERS) is the thing to look at...............not QUANTITY (which is the purpose of categories). Now, I'm not knocking Howard Univeristy. I give it to them. They are a good quality school and have a substantial quantity of programs. Great! But you can't sit up here and say that they are of better quality than Hampton Univeristy. They are probably about equal in that aspect. Howard was just blessed enough to offer a couple more Ph.D programs. If you are the type of person that goes to a school because it has more majors (not particularly just your major) and not for quality, then go right ahead.

But I'm about overall quality.
 
I read the USA rhetoric and have concluded that a lot of our schools are considered "tier 4" (whatever that means) because of several factors. Namely, the purpose for which our schools were created, open enrollment policy(ies), overall ACT/SAT scores --- see open enrollment policy, overall incoming frosh high school rankings - again - open enrollment policy, probability of frosh graduating - ditto, ...

We're too "special" purpose and "opportunity providing" to be cast into those lower categories that 'they' created.

I don't read/believe the hype. :D
 
Panthro, that is so true. I have always noticed in any college ranking that universities with "open admissions", admitting students with lower ACT scores, and etc. count as strikes against them.
 
I am not being defensive. Most of the people that have responded to post have responded negative. I did not think that it was such a big deal. People are misunderstanding the purpose of my post. First I could careless about these rankings because I know that they careless about our schools. I understand why you did it by confernce.


The whole reason I posted my response is because so people seem to be confused by the way u posted. Like for instance, DAHill stated that he could not believe Miles is a better school than CAU but according to the USNEWS CAU is the better school because it is National University.

I understand what you are saying about the quality of an University. That was never an issue in my post. B

I guess I should asked why you listed them accordings to tiers when the universities are designated by what type of university? Because in the US News it listed by type of university and then tier.


What is the deal people can have discussion on this board without people resulting to insulting people. I was not critizing anybody I was just trying to clear up a misunderstanding in how the data was interpreted.
 
Re: I, personally, wouldn't read too much into these dumb rankings

Originally posted by Panthro
"L", some of the dumbest peeps that I've met (seriously) were MIT, Stanford, and Berkley grads. Total airheads. Black, white, chinese, indian, ... Just dumb and totally clueless. I guess that the 2.07 gpa that they sported @ their univs made them, well, .... You know.

If it's (drive, determination, intelligence, hunger, achievement, knowledge, ...) in you, it's in you. I don't think, to a certain degree, it matters where you retrieve the informational knowledge from (I'm not talking social aspects of HBCU vs PWCU).

Wouldn't you concur Dr. EB?

PhD cand Panthro!
Click to expand...

That is an excellent point. A grad from Stanford, MIT or Berkley is not necessarily a smarter grad.
 
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