Blacks at white schools


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I don't think it really matter where you go to school, it matters what you do while in school and after graduation that matters. Sure, maybe "white schools" in some people minds might present a better educational opportunity, but some of our best leaders made the most out of their HBCU education or community college education, while others who went to "white schools" did not fare well all the time. It's about the student and not about the school.

I agree.
But the problem comes in (at least for me) where our own look down upon HBCUs.

I've got family members and people I know back home who think "white schools" are actually better and sent their kids to those schools, simply because they thought: if it's white, it's got to be right. :smh:

If anyone sends their child to a PWC, fine! I can respect that decision. BUT don't put down HBCUs.
 
I agree.
But the problem comes in (at least for me) where our own look down upon HBCUs.

I've got family members and people I know back home who think "white schools" are actually better and sent their kids to those schools, simply because they thought: if it's white, it's got to be right. :smh:

If anyone sends their child to a PWC, fine! I can respect that decision. BUT don't put down HBCUs.
:tup: That's the point I'm making...send your kids wherever, just get out of this slave mentality that white is right/better.
 

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I agree.
But the problem comes in (at least for me) where our own look down upon HBCUs.

I've got family members and people I know back home who think "white schools" are actually better and sent their kids to those schools, simply because they thought: if it's white, it's got to be right. :smh:

If anyone sends their child to a PWC, fine! I can respect that decision. BUT don't put down HBCUs.

I agree with that, but we have to find out why black parents and students think that HBCUs don't measure up. If they don't measure up, then we have to find out what can our schools do to attract and keep more black students.
 
I mean there are plenty of factors involved in this. First, you have to look at where most of our schools are located...slap in the middle of the hood. When my parents took me on my campus tour to Bama State they were against it before we even got out of the car. On top of that, many of the dorms at HBCUs shouldve been torn down 20 years ago and replaced. I know I sure used to wonder where the L my tuition was going. I'm not anti-HBCU obviously since I chose to start at an HBCU over a PWC, but having been to both I will say there are MAJOR differences for the most part.
 
I agree with that, but we have to find out why black parents and students think that HBCUs don't measure up. If they don't measure up, then we have to find out what can our schools do to attract and keep more black students.

Its pretty simple...upgrade the campuses, better security. Of course incidents happen at both HBCU's and PWC's but its ridiculous not to be able to feel safe at a place of education. When I was at Howard they actually had bulletins posted up on campus warning of robbers roaming the campus..yet nothing was done to stop it. Keep the landscape up, hire QUALIFIED professors.

You have to market yourself like a first choice institution and not a place for students that cant get in school somewhere else. I'm not against open-enrollment but you do have to admit it often attracts students that have no intention of graduating and just go to college just to have something to do.
 
I mean there are plenty of factors involved in this. First, you have to look at where most of our schools are located...slap in the middle of the hood. When my parents took me on my campus tour to Bama State they were against it before we even got out of the car. On top of that, many of the dorms at HBCUs shouldve been torn down 20 years ago and replaced. I know I sure used to wonder where the L my tuition was going. I'm not anti-HBCU obviously since I chose to start at an HBCU over a PWC, but having been to both I will say there are MAJOR differences for the most part.

When I first arrived near the JSU campus in 2001 it was a little scary to see the school was in the hood. Also the dorms we way too old and in terrible shape. But as the years have gone on, the university has made efforts to improve facilities and improve. I don't know too much about other schools, but from what I've heard students say from fellow HBCUs all the problems are similar. But now I think that HBCUs will be forced to upgrade in every aspect of student life or they will lose many more students.
 
Since we are creating scenarios.I will answer this question with a question, What if you were a principal of a school disctrict in Jackson Mississippi,you have 2 applicants with a BS in Mathematics,1 from Princeton and 1 from Jackson State who would you hire?


You see this is why we think white folks are better. We think just because their cars, homes, schools, and facilities are better then clearly they are the favorites. You know I tell people all the time not to look at things from a worldly view, but from a personal view. For example, when we leave this world we'll be judged by our works......not wealth. Christ gave the best examples of this and most of us don't realize the "simplicity" of his teachings, and how we apply it to our daily lives.. Look at where Christ was born and where he grew up, and what they wrapped him in after birth. Look at the people he helped and blessed. He was always reaching out to those who were "less fortunate". We are a selfish and greedy people and we have forgotten "our history". My kids will not attend a school because of race, but they "will" attend an institution that were one of the first to "lift a finger in their cause on their behalf". I'm so sick and tired of people allowing kids to "make their own decisions". Kids shouldn't be able to make a financial decision until they can "fully take care of all their responsibilities". The day they can no longer be dependent upon me shall be the day they "make their own decisions". You see I won't have a problem with my kids because "I teach them the importance of HBCU's". They love JSU and have been since the age of 2. I can drive around the city and ask them where are we and they look around and reply......Jackson State. Why do we support her? Because "she first loved us". Why do we care for her? Because "she first loved us". Why do we ask God to bless her and her sisters? Because "they first loved us". I shared that with you to show you that its not hard to influence and properly teach kids the importance of value. If JSU doesn't have then surely there is and HBCU that does. My kids know and understand the value of an HBCU. They know that many dreams came true for our people through prayer, love, and diligent work. They know and understand they "owe a debt they can't pay". Inspiration is everything and I've listed a few below.

http://blackvoices.aol.com/newsmain/sports/superbowlxxxix/dougwilliams

BV:Let?s start from the beginning and not overlook your roots. What part did playing at Grambling play in your success?

DW:Grambling taught me pride, the pride you get from being humble, playing in a place like that. Anybody who goes to Grambling comes from humble, they know what the world is about. They can face the challenge better. At Grambling it was all about getting the best out of what you had to work with. Coach [Eddie] Robinson did so much with so little, we learned that we could do anything. We didn?t care where we were from. If you can block and tackle at Grambling, you can block and tackle anywhere.

We have the same size field as anybody. Might not have as much grass on it, but it?s the same size.


How about this?

10And it came to pass, as Jesus sat at meat in the house, behold, many publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples.

11And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners?

12But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.

13But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

45Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.

46And Nathanael said unto him, Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth? Philip saith unto him, Come and see.
 
I agree with that, but we have to find out why black parents and students think that HBCUs don't measure up. If they don't measure up, then we have to find out what can our schools do to attract and keep more black students.

I think one reason is that some black parents had some bad experiences at HBCUs. Therefore, they don't want their seeds to go through what they experienced.

Second, the white schools do get more exposure. AND they also have much stronger alumni support. They put back into their academic and sports programs, and it pays off with attracting top students/athletes.
And this is one of the things we don't do (financially give back)--- at least not nearly as well as we should. We don't give back. We talk about it all day, everday, but don't do anything about it.
We don't have large endowment funds that assist students who may want to attend our schools but can't because they don't have the money. So we lose those students to the schools who do have the money.


Third, I hate to say it, but we hurt our ownselves. Speaking in general, we don't know how to treat one another and we can lack some serious customer-service skills and professionalism (which is still VERY important in a collegiate area). Our nasty attitudes and attitude of "we don't need you" hurts us, and we can (and DO) lose students.


Fourth and last, recruitment could be an issue, too. We don't do an effective job of telling students why they should come to our school and what programs/degrees we offer. Our (still talking in general) marketing strategies are not working; our public relations professional are either not doing their job (to project a positive image of the school) or they don't have the budget to do it; AND we hire incompetent people and people with egos who won't step aside, because they (maybe un-intentionally) would rather HURT their school then help it. Either way, your school can't progress, if you don't have key, aggressive people in place.
 
Since we are creating scenarios.I will answer this question with a question, What if you were a principal of a school disctrict in Jackson Mississippi,you have 2 applicants with a BS in Mathematics,1 from Princeton and 1 from Jackson State who would you hire?


You see this is why we think white folks are better. We think just because their cars, homes, schools, and facilities are better then clearly they are the favorites. You know I tell people all the time not to look at things from a worldly view, but from a personal view. For example, when we leave this world we'll be judged by our works......not wealth. Christ gave the best examples of this and most of us don't realize the "simplicity" of his teachings, and how we apply it to our daily lives.. Look at where Christ was born and where he grew up, and what they wrapped him in after birth. Look at the people he helped and blessed. He was always reaching out to those who were "less fortunate". We are a selfish and greedy people and we have forgotten "our history". My kids will not attend a school because of race, but they "will" attend an institution that were one of the first to "lift a finger in their cause on their behalf". I'm so sick and tired of people allowing kids to "make their own decisions". Kids shouldn't be able to make a financial decision until they can "fully take care of all their responsibilities". The day they can no longer be dependent upon me shall be the day they "make their own decisions". You see I won't have a problem with my kids because "I teach them the importance of HBCU's". They love JSU and have been since the age of 2. I can drive around the city and ask them where are we and they look around and reply......Jackson State. Why do we support her? Because "she first loved us". Why do we care for her? Because "she first loved us". Why do we ask God to bless her and her sisters? Because "they first loved us". I shared that with you to show you that its not hard to influence and properly teach kids the importance of value. If JSU doesn't have then surely there is and HBCU that does. My kids know and understand the value of an HBCU. They know that many dreams came true for our people through prayer, love, and diligent work. They know and understand they "owe a debt they can't pay". Inspiration is everything and I've listed a few below.

http://blackvoices.aol.com/newsmain/sports/superbowlxxxix/dougwilliams

BV:Let?s start from the beginning and not overlook your roots. What part did playing at Grambling play in your success?

DW:Grambling taught me pride, the pride you get from being humble, playing in a place like that. Anybody who goes to Grambling comes from humble, they know what the world is about. They can face the challenge better. At Grambling it was all about getting the best out of what you had to work with. Coach [Eddie] Robinson did so much with so little, we learned that we could do anything. We didn?t care where we were from. If you can block and tackle at Grambling, you can block and tackle anywhere.

We have the same size field as anybody. Might not have as much grass on it, but it?s the same size.



How about this?

10And it came to pass, as Jesus sat at meat in the house, behold, many publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples.

11And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners?

12But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.

13But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

45Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.

46And Nathanael said unto him, Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth? Philip saith unto him, Come and see.
 
We are thankful we have choices, but why not embrace our own...we should also be thankful we, as black folks have our own higher institutions of learning (HBCU's)...but that's not relevant to some, I guess. **shrugs shoulders**

Also, I notice the words best education is being thrown out quite often...it's funny that most black folks don't believe the best education can be obtained from our schools. :(

I ain't gone sit here and lie. I went to UAPB because I didn't have money and my test scores were LOW. I didn't have a car on campus. I grew up in the projects. I worked in high school and in college. I say all that to say this, I want better for my child. UAPB is a school that has an OPEN ENROLLMENT policy. They give kids a chance who can not get the chance at a larger PWC.

I strive to put my kids in a better position. I RATHER for UAPB to be their LAST choice. I rather they NOT have to work in high school OR college. I rather they have a car in college. I rather they NOT take out student LOANS. Its just wanting BETTER for them than I had for myself.

However, if they are the type of students that find it hard to keep up with the pace that a larger PWC would present, then and only then will we fall back on UAPB. It won't be the first choice.
 
Since we are creating scenarios.I will answer this question with a question, What if you were a principal of a school disctrict in Jackson Mississippi,you have 2 applicants with a BS in Mathematics,1 from Princeton and 1 from Jackson State who would you hire?

I was at a workshop not too long ago with a woman who, during the course of the conversation, I learned got her undergrad degree from UT, and a Master's from Texas A&M. When I told her where I worked, she said, "I was supposed to come to your building, but at the last minute, I was moved back to my campus. I had no idea why. I was actually excited about moving over there, but oh well."

I was a last minute hire. My principal told me when he hired me, "We had an 8th grade teacher here, but she isn't going to work out. Would you like to teach 8th grade Language Arts?"

He had her, with her two PWC degrees, put BACK where she came from, so he could GIVE ME, with my UNIVERSITY OF ARKANSAS AT PINE BLUFF parchment, HER POSITION.

So, there's one answer to your question, homeskillet. :nod:
 
The Ghetto? Techwood Drive ain't half stopping it's self. Now granted since they tore down techwood holmes it's better, but come on now.
I mean there are plenty of factors involved in this. First, you have to look at where most of our schools are located...slap in the middle of the hood. When my parents took me on my campus tour to Bama State they were against it before we even got out of the car. On top of that, many of the dorms at HBCUs shouldve been torn down 20 years ago and replaced. I know I sure used to wonder where the L my tuition was going. I'm not anti-HBCU obviously since I chose to start at an HBCU over a PWC, but having been to both I will say there are MAJOR differences for the most part.
 
^^^^ That's alright home girl.

I went to UAPB because , I saw the college life at a young age. I saw all the fraternties and sororities pledge in the neighborhood on the North side. I saw the Bar-Kays,and Confunkshun and other free outdoor concerts by the Belltower when I was kid. I saw homecoming parades with the bands from Memphis ( especially Booker T. Washington) take marching band to another level. In my high school years I saw all these national known Black speakers speark at UAPB, Nikki Giovanni , Ivan Van Sertima, Anthony Browder. I hear about Attornery Wiley Branton the attorney (AM&N GRADUATE)who handled the Little Rock Nine in 1957. I hear about Dr. Koonce(AM&N graduate) who did the first Kidney transplant in the world. Then I watch 60minutes don't know the ladies name(AM&N graduate) but she was a superintendent of the Milwaukee school disctrict,where the 60minutes did a report on she raise the districts graduation and grades to another level. When I was in elementary school art majors showed students in the summer time on how to draw. So see I had lot of pride of UAPB and all other HBCU's because I understand the struggle our colleges have to go through to improve.
 
I ain't gone sit here and lie. I went to UAPB because I didn't have money and my test scores were LOW. I didn't have a car on campus. I grew up in the projects. I worked in high school and in college. I say all that to say this, I want better for my child. UAPB is a school that has an OPEN ENROLLMENT policy. They give kids a chance who can not get the chance at a larger PWC.

I strive to put my kids in a better position. I RATHER for UAPB to be their LAST choice. I rather they NOT have to work in high school OR college. I rather they have a car in college. I rather they NOT take out student LOANS. Its just wanting BETTER for them than I had for myself.

However, if they are the type of students that find it hard to keep up with the pace that a larger PWC would present, then and only then will we fall back on UAPB. It won't be the first choice.


Now that makes me want to cry! I am a UAPB student and I know we are not a bright and shining diamond but we produce diamonds in the rough! Just because you attended UAPB or any other black schools doens't make you nothing nor does it mean you started out with nothing though some did! JUst because you may send your children to a PWC doesn't mean they won't struggle and when they graduate it doesn't mean they will be working for places like the fortune 500 firms.
Though I do 100% respect your opinion and everyone's opinion on this board, this mentality is exactly what I was talking about and don't favor very much.
You have to think about it for a sec. Some one on the board said that Black students today don't think nor care about what happened during the underground railroad era! True but if we don't think about it or remember it we won't recognize when history repeats itself in many was. Trust it will repeat itself. Again I say, there is nothing wrong with going to predominantly white schools, I repeat nothing wrong at all but never ever put your black schools down! If it was for them and the people that graduated from them alot of black people would not have the education they have today nor be able to be the back bone for several black families in today's society. Also, many blacks would not have the courage to fight for what is right then and today.
 
What are you thoughts on black kids going to white colleges for education and sports play? Are white schools better? Do black kids at black schools have low moral and constantly wish they were at white schools?
I have personally heard remarks from black students talking about they would have a better chance at getting drafted to any pro sport especially football if they were at a white school! I think different!

I think that PWC's are more convenient. I.E.- register over the phone, financial aid taken care of (especially loans), and on average less room for failure.

I DON'T think one college is better than another. I DO think that colleges like Harvard can be duplicated and I DO BELIEVE that HBCU's simply don't say "You failed. Get it together or go home." or "Apply next year." I KNOW HBCU's give chances with open enrollment but at some point, a higher standard should be made if we want to claim academic competition on campus (en masse) and competition with PWC's. We won't get one without the other. Shaft the weak links and stop helping or help those less fortunate and create teachers as a huge part of your graduating classes.
 

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Third, I hate to say it, but we hurt our ownselves. Speaking in general, we don't know how to treat one another and we can lack some serious customer-service skills and professionalism (which is still VERY important in a collegiate area). Our nasty attitudes and attitude of "we don't need you" hurts us, and we can (and DO) lose students.
I have to chime in on this one.

As someone who attended an HBCU for 2 years and transferred to/graduated from a PWC, I know for a FACT that there is a difference here.

Do PWC's have better, nicer facilities? Yep. do they have bigger endowment funds? In many cases, yes. Does any of that have any bearing on the level of professionalism that should be extended to HBCU students? Nope.

I was the Executive Director of my Fraternity for a number of years and I could write books on the nasty, condescending, unprofessional behavior I observed from Administrative and Support Staff at HBCU's. I also experienced this as a student. Paperwork lost. No return calls. Foul attitudes on the phone. The whole 9.

Somebody needs to tell our HBCU's that students have a CHOICE these days. Back in the day, Black kids had to deal with this because they had no other options. These days, "It's a Different World." These HBCU's are in a competitive marketplace and the student is the consumer.

If I run a retail store and I am nasty to my customers, they will take their business elsewhere. It's no different with colleges. tuition ain't cheap and there is no reason to spend your money where it isn't respected.

Don't get me wrong - I am not anti-HBCU. There are hundeds of thousands of black folk who wouldn't have a degree if not for the existence of HBCU's. There are thousands of folk who wouldn't have made it without the support of an HBCU environment -- especially those HBCU instructors who took a personal interest and would NOT LET you fail.

Still, we have a responsibility to treat each other with respect and dignity. These HBCU administrations need to look in the mirror and then check themselves.
 
You see this is why we think white folks are better. We think just because their cars, homes, schools, and facilities are better then clearly they are the favorites. You know I tell people all the time not to look at things from a worldly view, but from a personal view. For example, when we leave this world we'll be judged by our works......not wealth. Christ gave the best examples of this and most of us don't realize the "simplicity" of his teachings, and how we apply it to our daily lives.. Look at where Christ was born and where he grew up, and what they wrapped him in after birth. Look at the people he helped and blessed. He was always reaching out to those who were "less fortunate". We are a selfish and greedy people and we have forgotten "our history". My kids will not attend a school because of race, but they "will" attend an institution that were one of the first to "lift a finger in their cause on their behalf". I'm so sick and tired of people allowing kids to "make their own decisions". Kids shouldn't be able to make a financial decision until they can "fully take care of all their responsibilities". The day they can no longer be dependent upon me shall be the day they "make their own decisions". You see I won't have a problem with my kids because "I teach them the importance of HBCU's". They love JSU and have been since the age of 2. I can drive around the city and ask them where are we and they look around and reply......Jackson State. Why do we support her? Because "she first loved us". Why do we care for her? Because "she first loved us". Why do we ask God to bless her and her sisters? Because "they first loved us". I shared that with you to show you that its not hard to influence and properly teach kids the importance of value. If JSU doesn't have then surely there is and HBCU that does. My kids know and understand the value of an HBCU. They know that many dreams came true for our people through prayer, love, and diligent work. They know and understand they "owe a debt they can't pay". Inspiration is everything and I've listed a few below.

http://blackvoices.aol.com/newsmain/sports/superbowlxxxix/dougwilliams

BV:Let?s start from the beginning and not overlook your roots. What part did playing at Grambling play in your success?

DW:Grambling taught me pride, the pride you get from being humble, playing in a place like that. Anybody who goes to Grambling comes from humble, they know what the world is about. They can face the challenge better. At Grambling it was all about getting the best out of what you had to work with. Coach [Eddie] Robinson did so much with so little, we learned that we could do anything. We didn?t care where we were from. If you can block and tackle at Grambling, you can block and tackle anywhere.

We have the same size field as anybody. Might not have as much grass on it, but it?s the same size.


How about this?

10And it came to pass, as Jesus sat at meat in the house, behold, many publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples.

11And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners?

12But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.

13But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

45Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.

46And Nathanael said unto him, Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth? Philip saith unto him, Come and see.

Very well said Royal Blue!
 
Great thread....:smash:


for the majority of or HBCU institutions, the talent base isn't the issue...Good talent is good talent, regardless of whether it's at Jackson State or George Mason. The key is how to attract and keep that talent.


How we market ourselves as institutions has a direct impact on who we attract as students. Things like infrastructure, history, and quality of education has a direct impact on how effective our marketing can be.

In order to attract the best and brightest black students, our institutions have got to collectively start playing the game and play it to win.


That means offering the facilities and infrastructure that will be comparable (or better in some cases) with the folks we are in direct competition against.


You've got got to find the balance between offering an education that affordable and keeping your standards high for the student and the institution at large.


Everybody's a part of that process if your an alum of an HBCU. We've got to start giving more back to our schools, both monetarily and in terms of personal time, ideas and policy. Some of our schools do a pretty good job of that. Some don't. Frankly, there's no reason for any of our institutions to lose potential students because of the lack of basic infrasturcture mentioned in this post.
 
This is obviously a subject that people feel strong about. With that said, how do some of you feel about white, asian, latino and Middle Eastern students attending HBCUs? Are they ignoring their hertiage and culture by attending an HBCU, or is this just a black/white issue?
 
This is obviously a subject that people feel strong about. With that said, how do some of you feel about white, asian, latino and Middle Eastern students attending HBCUs? Are they ignoring their hertiage and culture by attending an HBCU, or is this just a black/white issue?

HBCU's have always had an open door policy to whomever, therefore its not a problem for me.
 
Thats ONE school compared to HOW many HBCU's?

The University of Southern California is also in the "hood". LSU has a nice campus, but South Baton Rouge isn't exactly Beverly Hills either.

I think that a lot of people make blanket generalizations when it comes to the HBCU vs. PWI debate. Personally, I take the whole HBCU/PWI thing on a case-by-case basis. At the end of the day, a person has to go to the school that they feel is best for them. Most of my family members were against HBCUs, but I think I came out much better than I would have had I gone the "JC first, Cal State next" route like most of them did.
 
Some of the comments on this thread are PRECISELY why I'll be getting my M.Ed in SECONDARY COUNSELING, and pushing OUR KIDS towards OUR SCHOOLS.

That includes my own. :nod: :tup: UAPB might not be their first choice, but it won't be their last.

I took dance, gymnastics, participated in Jack and Jill, and participated in Fine Arts camps as a kid. I was a well rounded athlete and scholar because I was pushed. By the age of 16, I'd seen cities in the country, and around the world, that some people the age I am now have yet to see. I was able to do all of this as a result of the BLACK COLLEGE EDUCATION that my PARENTS received.

I grew up in a Black College environment. I travelled to other HBCUs as a child. The love and pride that I guess not everyone feels for HBCUs courses through my veins with every beat of my heart. I have PRIDE in the school that afforded myself, my parents, aunts, uncles, cousins, brothers, husband, sisters-in-law, and countless friends the opportunity to go out and do great things and make differences in our respective communities, and I have NOTHING BUT LOVE for the others of her kind across the country, and WHEN I become a counselor, it will be my PERSONAL MISSION to see to it that OTHER BABIES who LOOK LIKE ME see the VALUE in OUR institutions, even when the people who passed through their doors before obviously DO NOT.
 
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