Barry Bonds . . countdown to history


Status
Not open for further replies.
kendrick said:
1. No such thing as a "juiced ball." The baseballs were wound up more tighter which made the ball harder, and the seams on the ball lowered which made it difficult for pitchers to grip. Basically, the hitters were swatting large golf balls. The teams don't handle the balls during the games. The umpires inspect and rub up about 70 dozen ball a game. If the ball were juiced are altered, MLB would have to investigate itself and whoever does the maufacturing.


4. Baseball did not start testing for drugs until 2003 as part of a survey. Then it was found that 5 percent of players were on the stuff. 2004 that's when the official testing began.
Click to expand...

Kenny, you just contradicted your own argument in the above statements.
Balls were not juiced but they were wound up tighter?
Who authorized it and why?
The MLB does not have to investigate itself. An independent source can be brought in to investigate baseball.

Second, since there were no steroid policies before 2004, how can baseball retroactively penalize Bonds for breaking a "policy" that wasn't even a policy at the time he allegedly took steroids? Legally, they can't, so it's a moot point.
Baseball's just hoping the federal government can do it's dirty work for it, then that'll give them an excuse to penalize the man.

This is the witch hunt of witch hunts in all of sports combined, plain and simple.
 
kendrick said:
Lance Williams, Mark Fainaru-Wada, Chronicle Staff Writers
Friday, December 3, 2004

Bonds said that as far as he knew, Anderson had given him only legal products to treat the arthritis and fatigue that afflicted him, especially when playing a day game after a night game. The trainer brought the products into the Giants' clubhouse at Pac Bell Park "once a homestand," Bonds said, and that's where he used them.

"I never asked Greg" about what the products contained, Bonds testified. "When he said it was flaxseed oil, I just said, 'Whatever.'


Faced with the same warning and similar evidence, five other baseball players who were summoned to San Francisco to testify last year confessed to the grand jury that they had used performance-enhancing drugs provided by Anderson.

One week after Bonds testified, New York Yankees first baseman Jason Giambi and his brother Jeremy, both former Oakland A's, described in detail how they had injected themselves with performance-enhancing drugs. The Giambis testified they were drawn to Anderson because of Bonds' success.

Other players who admitted their use of performance-enhancing drugs were former Giants Armando Rios, Benito Santiago and Bobby Estalella. The players said they had come to know Anderson because he was Bonds' trainer.

A sixth witness, Yankees outfielder Gary Sheffield, testified that while he trained with Bonds in the Bay Area before the 2002 baseball season, Bonds had arranged for him to receive "the cream," "the clear" and "red beans," which the prosecutors identified as steroid pills manufactured in Mexico.

I've heard stories about his shoe size and head size increasing. I don't know if that's true...But you never know.

Changing the rules is different than changing the ball. The rules have more of an affect on the game than the ball does. But I would not put it past MLB for doing something like that.
Click to expand...

That's still not telling me anything. I don't believe that Sheffield told the Feds that because really that's all they need is a witness. If Sheffield said that then he'd be witness #1. I read something totally different about Sheffield's testimony. You're still showing me guilty by association.
 



JayRob said:
Kenny, you just contradicted your own argument in the above statements.
Balls were not juiced but they were wound up tighter?
Who authorized it and why?
The MLB does not have to investigate itself. An independent source can be brought in to investigate baseball.
Second, since there were no steroid policies before 2004, how can baseball retroactively penalize Bonds for breaking a "policy" that wasn't even a policy at the time he allegedly took steroids? Legally, they can't, so it's a moot point.
Baseball's just hoping the federal government can do it's dirty work for it, then that'll give them an excuse to penalize the man.

This is the witch hunt of witch hunts in all of sports combined, plain and simple.
Click to expand...

When you say juiced ball, to me it means that the ball does not function as it normally would. With that said, I don't know if the ball was juiced, altered or anything I'm just going by what I've heard pitchers say about the ball in the past.

In order for there to be an independent source conducting an investigation there has be ground for probable cause Plus, the players did not complain. If they did then you could have an investigation.

Also, there has to be evidence that suggest that the balls were altered. But MLB didn't break any laws if the balls were altered. They can do what they want to the ball. Just like the NBA altering the ball last season.

You are right, MLB can't do anything if Bonds took roids and there was no policy. But Bonds can do jail time if it is found out he lied to the grand jury that he never took steriods.
 
PsychoJag said:
That's still not telling me anything. I don't believe that Sheffield told the Feds that because really that's all they need is a witness. If Sheffield said that then he'd be witness #1. I read something totally different about Sheffield's testimony. You're still showing me guilty by association.
Click to expand...

So you are telling me you believe that McGwire took more than andro even though he never said he took anything else, but you fail to believe that Bonds accidentally to the Cream and other drugs?

Now if Sheffield did not say that don't you think he would have sued those reporters and the newspaper?

Boy, you people will defend that man all the way to McCovey Cove.
 
newboy said:
Because there hasn't been any evidence that said he used illegal steriods. I don't care what type of "A" hole he is, he hasn't been caught using roids...
Click to expand...

HE ADMITTED HE "UNKOWNINGLY" USED THE CREAM....THAT'S ILLEGAL AND THAT IS EVIDENCE..NOT A LOT... BUT EVIDENCE NONETHELESS. JUST BECAUSE HE WAS NOT CAUGHT USING STERIODS DOES NOT MEAN HE DID/DID NOT DO IT.

YOU CAN'T BE NAIVE TO THINK THAT UNDECTECTIBLE AGENTS DON'T EXIST. HIS PERSONAL TRAINER WAS GIVING THEM OUT TO PLAYERS ON HIS OWN TEAM.

I KNOW THAT HE HAS NOT FAILED A TEST, BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN HE NEVER USED STERIODS, HGH or ANYTHING ELSE.

WE ALL AGREE THAT MCGWIRE USED STERIODS EVEN THOUGH HE NEVER FAILED A TEST EITHER. WHY CAN'T WE ASSUME THE SAME THING ABOUT BONDS?
 
You know the funny thing about all this argueing and debating over Bonds and steroid use is that, even now, HE IS STILL KNOCKING THEM OUT OF THE PARK. lol Really, has Bonds slowed down in his homerun hitting besides from getting older, and multiple walks? The isht just seems kind of stupid if you think about it.

kendrick, is Bonds using steroids now at this moment?
 
kendrick said:
HE ADMITTED HE "UNKOWNINGLY" USED THE CREAM....THAT'S ILLEGAL AND THAT IS EVIDENCE..NOT A LOT... BUT EVIDENCE NONETHELESS. JUST BECAUSE HE WAS NOT CAUGHT USING STERIODS DOES NOT MEAN HE DID/DID NOT DO IT.
Click to expand...

When you have evidence that people have done some illegal activity you prosecute. Granted he may or may not have taken roids for maybe a year or two, but its not illegal until you get caught.
He's never been caught and none of his former teammates or friends ever implicated him with steroid use (maybe shefield). Place the blame of Bud Selig not B. Bonds or any other proffesional players because he knew what the hell was going on. He just turned a blind eye to baseball because he wanted to return baseball to the popular era before the 94 strike. So what if he's every used steroids, he was great before and after roids.
There has been many steroid users but you know as a former baseball player you still have to some type of great to do what he's done (Give the man his due). There were players who were on roids who were never near as talented as Bonds, even when he was rookie.

kendrick said:
I KNOW THAT HE HAS NOT FAILED A TEST, BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN HE NEVER USED STERIODS, HGH or ANYTHING ELSE.
Click to expand...

Leave it at that. Everything else is moot.

kendrick said:
WE ALL AGREE THAT MCGWIRE USED STERIODS EVEN THOUGH HE NEVER FAILED A TEST EITHER. WHY CAN'T WE ASSUME THE SAME THING ABOUT BONDS?
Click to expand...

Because believe it or not J. Canseco on this issue can be called credible. McGwire went before congress and basically pleaded the 5th. If you didn't do steroids you'll deny it (unless your Palmeiro). I'm not going to assume the same with Bonds because he has never done anything to me that warrented me to assume he's done steroids only his head has gotten bigger. Mark publically took a steroid that was not illegal in baseball during those days and they are illegal now and was injected by a known steroid user. Same with Bonds, if he took steroids it was not illegal then.
 
Congratulations Bonds, on #755. :happydance:

I haven't read a lot of the recent posts, but did anyone notice that ESPN spent TWICE as much time discussing and praising A-Rod's 500th homerun as they did begrudgingly discussing Bonds' 755th. :smh:

Sad.

Also, now that A-Rod has 500 HR's, look for teams to start pitching underhanded to him the way they did McGwire in '98. They might even set him up one of those "tees" they use for pre-schoolers. :lol:

Trust me, Major League Baseball is going to do everything in their power to insure that Barry Bonds holds this record for as little time as possible.
 
Most people may disagree with Skip Bayless, but I personally like him. This morning on 1st and 10 he made some good points that were pro B. Bonds. He did add a disclamer saying he doesn't really care about B. Bonds. He also said something about white columnist pretty much being haters towards B. Bonds (or something like that)
 
Deuce said:
Congratulations Bonds, on #755. :happydance:


Also, now that A-Rod has 500 HR's, look for teams to start pitching underhanded to him the way they did McGwire in '98. They might even set him up one of those "tees" they use for pre-schoolers. :lol:

Trust me, Major League Baseball is going to do everything in their power to insure that Barry Bonds holds this record for as little time as possible.
Click to expand...

If A-Rod keeps playing against the Royals every day maybe he will break the record. But he struck out twice yesterday. I don't think pitchers want to be part of history. You see how pitchers are pitching around Bonds. It will be the same with Rodriguez.
 
kendrick said:
I don't think pitchers want to be part of history. You see how pitchers are pitching around Bonds. It will be the same with Rodriguez.
Click to expand...

They pitched around Bonds . . . because he is Bonds.

Did they pitch around McGwire when he was going for Maris' record? I don't think so.
 
newboy said:
Granted he may or may not have taken roids for maybe a year or two, but its not illegal until you get caught.


I'm not going to assume the same with Bonds because he has never done anything to me that warrented me to assume he's done steroids only his head has gotten bigger.
Click to expand...

1. So you are giving these guys a pass on taking something. Granted, MLB did not test for steriods prior to 2003, but when you are involved in a steroid ring involving other MLB players--some on his own team--it throws up red flags. When you were getting supplements from a guy who is an convicted steriod dealer and you admit he gave you supplements, red flags fly.

When MLB players admit they took steriods from your personal trainer and the place where he works was raided and shutdown by the feds, it throws up red flags.

2. Only his head got bigger? Your head can't get bigger in your late 30s unless your are taking HGH.

Plus, before he it 73 homers Bonds never hit 50 in a season. How do you all of a sudden go from 49 in 2000 to 73 in 2001 playing in the toughest park to for left handed hitters to hit homers in all the National League? Bonds is a great player--steroids or not--but even that is a little extraordinary.
 
kendrick said:
If A-Rod keeps playing against the Royals every day maybe he will break the record. But he struck out twice yesterday. I don't think pitchers want to be part of history. You see how pitchers are pitching around Bonds. It will be the same with Rodriguez.
Click to expand...


Baring injury A-Rod may break the record. He's been in the Major Leagues since he was 18. Bonds has been getting pitched around for the past 7 years and he still has the patience to hit the one mistake he may get for the whole night out the park. That's greatness
 
All these perfect people wanting EVERYBODY to follow their opinion and hate BONDS, yet I have not seen one of these PERFECT HYPOCRIT's THROW ONE OF THOSE BALL'S BACK YET. :lmao:

People need to get off it.
Looking through the paper today, you got sport's and opinion writer's all but calling gpeople dumb if they don't jump on the HATE BARRY train. :lol:

But then again, what else would be expect from a group of people that think their opinion and words on paper is GODS LAW. :lol:
 



kendrick said:
HE ADMITTED HE "UNKOWNINGLY" USED THE CREAM....THAT'S ILLEGAL AND THAT IS EVIDENCE..NOT A LOT... BUT EVIDENCE NONETHELESS. JUST BECAUSE HE WAS NOT CAUGHT USING STERIODS DOES NOT MEAN HE DID/DID NOT DO IT.

YOU CAN'T BE NAIVE TO THINK THAT UNDECTECTIBLE AGENTS DON'T EXIST. HIS PERSONAL TRAINER WAS GIVING THEM OUT TO PLAYERS ON HIS OWN TEAM.

I KNOW THAT HE HAS NOT FAILED A TEST, BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN HE NEVER USED STERIODS, HGH or ANYTHING ELSE.

WE ALL AGREE THAT MCGWIRE USED STERIODS EVEN THOUGH HE NEVER FAILED A TEST EITHER. WHY CAN'T WE ASSUME THE SAME THING ABOUT BONDS?
Click to expand...

Man I love you media cats. Ya'll always wear blinders. He did not admit to unknowingly using anything. How can you admit to unknowingly doing something? If that was the case then the Feds wouldn't be trying to get him for lying about not using steroids. He said he was given rubbing balm and flaxseed oil. Don't add nothing to the story. Another thing if Barry was using steroids why didn't they find anything in the blood and urine samples stored at Balco? They did for those other athletes......

We KNOW that McGwire used steroids because he used Androstenedione (which is a 19-carbon hormone steroid which is not only banned from MLB but all banned by the world doping agency). Canseco admitted to introducing McGwire to roids and Canseco has been right so far.
 
kendrick said:
So you are giving these guys a pass on taking something. Granted, MLB did not test for steriods prior to 2003, but when you are involved in a steroid ring involving other MLB players
Click to expand...

MLB gave the players a pass. I'm starting to believe MLB is ran by a mafia and they were responsible for puting steroids in baseball.

One of my former coaches played a number of years in one of the MLB organizations and he said their team officials were attempting to lean there minor league players to do roids. He played in the late 90's for about 6 years.
 
kendrick said:
Plus, before he it 73 homers Bonds never hit 50 in a season. How do you all of a sudden go from 49 in 2000 to 73 in 2001 playing in the toughest park to for left handed hitters to hit homers in all the National League? Bonds is a great player--steroids or not--but even that is a little extraordinary.
Click to expand...

Before Roger Maris hit 61 he never hit 40 homers in a season........I guess he was doping too?
 
Deuce said:
Congratulations Bonds, on #755. :happydance:

I haven't read a lot of the recent posts, but did anyone notice that ESPN spent TWICE as much time discussing and praising A-Rod's 500th homerun as they did begrudgingly discussing Bonds' 755th. :smh:

Sad.

Also, now that A-Rod has 500 HR's, look for teams to start pitching underhanded to him the way they did McGwire in '98. They might even set him up one of those "tees" they use for pre-schoolers. :lol:

Trust me, Major League Baseball is going to do everything in their power to insure that Barry Bonds holds this record for as little time as possible.
Click to expand...

So what!!!!!!!!!

1 more to go !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And Barry Bonds owns the record!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
newboy said:
MLB gave the players a pass. I'm starting to believe MLB is ran by a mafia and they were responsible for puting steroids in baseball.

One of my former coaches played a number of years in one of the MLB organizations and he said their team officials were attempting to lean there minor league players to do roids. He played in the late 90's for about 6 years.
Click to expand...

Baseball is as corrupt as boxing and track and field. It always has been from day one.
 
PsychoJag said:
Baseball is as corrupt as boxing and track and field. It always has been from day one.
Click to expand...

If baseball has been corrupt how come the Cubs have not won the World Series in 99 years? The Cubs are the second most popular team in sports after the Yankees. Don't you know how high the ratings would be if the Cubs were in the World Series?

If baseball you believe that baseball is corrupt, why is it so hard to believe that Barry Bonds took performance enhancing drugs?
 
1SGT_Robinson said:
So what!!!!!!!!!

1 more to go !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And Barry Bonds owns the record!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

1SGT,

I don't know if you noticed, but I'm rooting for Bonds. :tup:
 
kendrick said:
If baseball has been corrupt how come the Cubs have not won the World Series in 99 years? The Cubs are the second most popular team in sports after the Yankees. Don't you know how high the ratings would be if the Cubs were in the World Series?

If baseball you believe that baseball is corrupt, why is it so hard to believe that Barry Bonds took performance enhancing drugs?
Click to expand...

Dude 3 out of the top 5 have been Champs though (Yankees, Braves, Red Sox) and Detroit had a chance to be the Champs. :rolleyes:

I'm gonna say it like this. I'm not saying he did Steroids and I'm not saying he didn't do steroids. All I'm saying is that there is NO EVIDENCE. Blood samples of his from Balco was negative. Pee tests were negative. Multiple athletes were given up by Anderson and Conte in addition to blood samples from balco being negative. I unlike most these days believe in innocent until proven guilty and that has yet to be proven.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top