Herbert77060
Texas Southern University
With a lot of the "big" schools experiencing "One and Done" why aren't their APRs affected?
An APR Question?
- Thread starter Herbert77060
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TSUalum05
Well-Known Member
Players going professional does not count against the APR.
Herbert77060
Texas Southern University
That is a crock of crap. So, if I drop out and get a job I count against the APR but if I go "pro" I do not count against the APR. What if I play over seas....or play in a minor/semi-pro league?
Nonchalant
Hail, Hail To Thee...
:read:
It sure is. This is why I am not so hard on small schools having low APRs and have a big suspicion about how it was setup in the first place. Yes, I believe that athletes need to go to class. Yes, I believe that school need to provide athletes the tools they need to finish especially since they spend so much time on their sport. Yet, let's just say that I have a bad feeling about the setup of the APR. This is a huge understatement.
Jafus (Thinker)
Well-Known Member
Academic Progress Rate (APR) is based on a calculation metric for each player on a team measuring two components: 1) Retention (R) and 2) Eligibilty (E) as students move along there college progression towards graduation. So if a student-athlete leaves for professional opportunities, athletics or other career opportunities, an institution loses the retention point, but if they were eligible when they left then the institution would not lose an eligibility point.
usa today
Sgt Backfire
So if you're eligible and you transfer or just drop out the institution loses points? If so that's bullpus-y and is very bias and shows that the system is set up for the big dogs.
Jafus (Thinker)
Well-Known Member
TSUalum05 & EB,
That is not totally accurate. It all depends on whether the student-athlete was eligible when the student left the institution on whether it would account against the institution's APR or not in terms of an (E) point, but the institution would lose a (R) point regardless if the student-athlete decided to participate in sports at the professional level. You are referring Graduate Success Rate (GSR), which is a NCAA measure different from the Federal Graduation Rate (FGR).
That is not totally accurate. It all depends on whether the student-athlete was eligible when the student left the institution on whether it would account against the institution's APR or not in terms of an (E) point, but the institution would lose a (R) point regardless if the student-athlete decided to participate in sports at the professional level. You are referring Graduate Success Rate (GSR), which is a NCAA measure different from the Federal Graduation Rate (FGR).
Jafus (Thinker)
Well-Known Member
USA Today,
I respectfully disagree.
I respectfully disagree.
Tigerpride
THE Logical ONE
I think Jafus is saying that you do lose a point for athletes who go pro.
Panther88
Banned
I think y'all are confusing what Jafus is saying. :read:
So that's why txfers out, still elgible, don't count against it?
I'm trying to recall.. I thought it was whomever initially recruited the student-athlete, and if they txfer'd out, they'd still count against the initial-signing school's APR.Also, what if they txfer from ncaa sanctioned school to naia? :read: Same field, different ball-game.
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Herbert77060
Texas Southern University
How many of the Kentucky players from the 2010 season who left school to go pro (1 & dunners) were eligible when they left? Are you telling me those guys went to class religiously knowing they were going to apply for the NBA draft? Yeah right.
With all the issues the Cousins kid supposedly had do you think he was eligible when he left? Unless his course load was walking and chewing gum courses.
With all the issues the Cousins kid supposedly had do you think he was eligible when he left? Unless his course load was walking and chewing gum courses.
I think y'all are confusing what Jafus is saying. :read:
So that's why txfers out, still elgible, don't count against it?
Also, what if they txfer from ncaa sanctioned school to naia? :read: Same field, different ball-game.
Herbert77060
Texas Southern University
The Irving kid from Duke played in 11 games. What was his major? How many classes do you think he attended? Is he going to class now?
JR
Well-Known Member
That kid is a pretty smart kid. John Wall at Kentucky had a 4.0 his freshman year. Now one thing folks don't realize is all these teams keep enough towel wavers on the sideline that go to class and graduate. Look at that Kentucky center this year. Dude was on the bench all his career. You see that all time. I will use my other school Ohio State. They lost all those guys a few years ago from being one and done. But all their bench players graduated and even Greg Oden is still taking classes there although he is gone to the NBA. So is Michael Conley Jr. Then you throw in a kid like David Lighty who was on that team who just graduated this year during his Sr year along with 4 other cats that came a year after he did. Me and my boys be laughing at all the cats who at these school for academic reasons. You got to keep some of them on your bench for football and basketball. Even if you don't have folks going pro.
Then doesn't the APR be based on the graduation rate of your student body? At most schools the athletes out graduate the student body. Hell the NCAA got a commercial bragging about that fact. The bottom line is the bigger schools will always figure a way out of the APR mess. Unless they get caught fixing grades, they make sure those kids are staying eligible while they play. But I think folks will be shocked at how many of these kids are actually graduating from these schools now. It aint as bad as it was in the 90s and 80s when none of those cats graduated. I am not talking about the kids who left early for the NFL or NBA. I am talking about kids who stay the entire time or even become 5th year Srs. Back in the day, even those kids left with no degree from a lot of those PWCs. Now you don't see that as much. They also don't recruit the Dexter Manley's of the world anymore either.
the band fan
Baseball Fan
these schools create majors these athletes can only major in becasue they got in school by NCAA, not university standards...
Its called Ag Leadership at Texas A&M
Its called Ag Leadership at Texas A&M
usa today
Sgt Backfire
Damn shame but they are looked at so positive by many that post on these very boards. That's why i never liked LSU and others because i know the NCAA has helped set up stuff for the PWC's to get over with but there are many that are naive about the situation and follow those teams more than they follow their own school and conference. When dealing with sports i only follow Grambling, The Saints, and the Chicago Bulls. F the LSU's, Ohio's and Florida's etc. lol.
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JR
Well-Known Member
We have some suspect majors too TBF. How many times will I tell you that everybody in America aint going to get a degree in Engineering, Computer Science or some other high tech major that pay the big bucks. Most of American students major in easy majors. Go look at the registars at these colleges. It is a reason there is a STEM program movement in this country. Most US kids major in stuff that aint as revelant as it was 20-30 years ago. That's why we are in trouble as a country. So you know if the regular students are majoring in crappy stuff then the athletes who have no other reason of being in school but to play ball are doing the same. Some wouldn't even be there if it wasn't for their athletic ability. We need to be real about it.
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JR
Well-Known Member
Most people on this board just follow the athletes at these schools. In my case I am an alum of Southern and Ohio State. So I rep both. Plus my affliation with the Naval Academy so I rep them too with no qualms about it. SU is my number 1 concern. The other 2 are secondary. What I see on the board is just homerism with the SEC schools because the kids are from the same states as the SWAC players are for the most part. I don't think anybody is in love with these schools. Well maybe some of the Bama folks loving Alabama or Auburn. Now me.......I can't stand PWCs in the deep South. LOL.
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Bengal E
Active Member
Also these schools have dedicated people to make sure that these kids stay eligible. I remember after the JSU mess came out and I was researching the meaning of APR, I found a few articles about how UT raised their APR rate. Mack Brown and Rick what's his name had terrible APR's and were on their way to probation. They hired a Professor to create a studies (studying) program and made sure the kids did what they were supposed too. Heck they even had Kevin Durant going to class after he had already announced he was going pro. So they lost a point for retention, but he was still eligible.
In our cases, alot of times we aren't making sure these kids are doing what they are supposed to do, especially when their eligibility is almost up. They're just there to participate and then they're gone. We just need better study, tracking and retention programs.
In our cases, alot of times we aren't making sure these kids are doing what they are supposed to do, especially when their eligibility is almost up. They're just there to participate and then they're gone. We just need better study, tracking and retention programs.
JR
Well-Known Member
Good points Frat. Those schools have more resources to make sure kids stay eligible which is why I don't feel bad for a kid at those schools when they have all the opportunity to do well with all the help they get. Surely they can take advantage of it if they really want too. Our schools don't have those resources to help our kids like that. No matter what the major, if you are in some school activity for as long as those athletes have to practice, travel and play then you need the extra help and time. Especially if you were not a great student in the first place which a lot of kids even if they don't play ball are not the best in studying.
the band fan
Baseball Fan
and these guys are burning our e-mails up looking for jobs...............
we were open admissions years before these other schools accepted us so we would've enrolled them regardless if they can dribble a ball or not....these other schools just saw a way to exploit them legally and took advantage of the times
we were open admissions years before these other schools accepted us so we would've enrolled them regardless if they can dribble a ball or not....these other schools just saw a way to exploit them legally and took advantage of the times
JR
Well-Known Member
Everybody is looking for jobs. I know cats that played ball at our schools and got those Physical Education or similiar degrees and some other degrees that had a hard time finding a job. It is tight these days. If you choose to coach, be an SID, or future AD there are not that many jobs anyway. We talk about this all the time at my job how folks don't realize when they major in these non technical majors how hard it will be to get a job. Just aint that many jobs to have in this hi tech society. My old VP even told his daughter, he don't know WTF she gone do with a drama/liberal arts major. But realize you aint gone make no money when you finish. LOL. I was like damn.....but he told her the truth
Even at HBCUs we don't have a lot of job openings. When things were going well back in the day, SIDs and ADs never left and if the coaches didn't know you, they didn't hire you to coach. So for all those kids who play ball who aspire to coach or work in sports it is tight anyway. Just aint enough jobs to go around. Don't matter where you went to school. It will never be enough of those kind of jobs.
Same happens for that regular student who don't play ball. They have a hard time as well. While I agree the PWCs have made money off these kids and have figure out a way for it to be beneficial to them. It is still up to the kid to make it happen in whatever career they plan on entering later. Most kids don't end up in the career they thought they would once they graduate college. And now that the workplace has gone global, you have even more competition. It is the way it is. This is what is going on in real life not just for the athletes who don't make it to the pros and need a job. Somebody should have told them whether you went to a HBCU or PWC, the odds of you getting a plum assistant coaching job or some other job in sports would be tough. You better think about what your backup plan will be. This is the reality all students have to face. Somebody just needs to tell the truth to all kids on how the world really is. Most live in a fairy tale world and we all know it is a mofo out here on the streets of life.
As for the open admissions deal. We all know what we used to do. But unfortunately most of our HBCUs have decided not to do that anymore. Hell all schools back then admitted you. LOL. Or else cats like Dexter Manley couldn't have gotten to Okie State. So in essence if you could play ball you got in most schools. It was just back then the big schools missed on a lot of our players. Or either wanted them to play another position because they saved it for the golden white boy. You never saw us play OL like you do now at the PWCs. Back in the gap, we got the best black OL. They only wanted us to run or catch the ball or maybe defend at DB or play somewhere on the defense.