Alabama State, National Black College Champs!
- Thread starter Dr. Tripp
- Start date
GoldenTiger1
New Member
JROCK said:
Are you sure you want to go to this strength of schedule debate? Based upon some research, the SWAC is ranked #13 out of 16 1AA conferences in terms of strength (RPI).
JROCK
Preeminent
GoldenTiger1 said:
No matter where the SWAC is ranked in I-AA you all do not play the same caliber of teams on a weekly basis. Anyone can be a one hit wonder on a yearly basis. No way Skegee or Fort Valley goes through the SWAC without a couple of defeats. Did you see what a 2-4 conference team like Grambling did Saturday?
Shelt a 'Skegee Grad
New Member
JROCK,
Please stop acting like the SWAC is some kind of powerhouse conference. You have some weak teams in the SWAC (I don't care if they are D1AA, weak is weak). Just like there are some weak teams in the SIAC. The caliber of competition ain't that much better.
Am I arguing that TU should be BCFNC, no, but Albany State definitely deserves a look. And it definitely shouldn't be Alabama State.
Please stop acting like the SWAC is some kind of powerhouse conference. You have some weak teams in the SWAC (I don't care if they are D1AA, weak is weak). Just like there are some weak teams in the SIAC. The caliber of competition ain't that much better.
Am I arguing that TU should be BCFNC, no, but Albany State definitely deserves a look. And it definitely shouldn't be Alabama State.
DAHILL
Well-Known Member
Shelt a 'Skegee Grad said:
I wish IF they had to have a mythical HBCU national championship that they give it to both D1 and D2 HBCU's... its too hard to put all of them in one bundle because of the WEEKLY compition. Yes TU and Albany State BOTH have a claim... TU is a couple of seconds from being undefeated and Albany State is one half away from being in the 3rd round of the playoffs (they gave up a 21-0 halftime lead)... but one win over a SWAC east championship definitely wouldnt determine the outcome of what TU or even Albany State would do in an entire season in against the same compition that Alabama State faced. In the SWAC anybody can win each week. It is difficult to make it through a whole season undefeated even if you are a great team. Just look at how Jackson State beat UAPB to give them there only conference loss, and look at how a Grambling team (which had loses to AAMU, ASU, Jackson State, Alcorn and UAPB) defeated SU yesterday. Yes there are some bottom feaders in the conference but any week anybody can beat anybody.
GoldenTiger1
New Member
JROCK said:
My old graduate college professor would always ask, "Where is the proof?" You do not know what would occur if Albany State, Fort Valley State, Tuskegee, Miles and Kentucky State played numerous SWAC or similiar teams. Tuskegee has been defeating Alabama State (7 of the last 9 years) on their Homecoming, on their home field and with 27 less scholarships for years. If the aforementioned SIAC schools played such a schedule they would be able to award 63 scholarships. BTW, this hypothetical situation will never occur while these schools have conference affiliation. There is no need to even elaborate on a moot point. Over 90 percent of the posters predicted that ASU was going to defeat Tuskegee. They were all wrong for 2004 and was wrong for most of the other years. Loyalty to conference and divisional affiliation can cause individuals to make irrational decisions.
Bartram
Brand HBCUbian
GoldenTiger1 said:
yeah you make a point i was going to make. the assumption seems to be Tuskegee could not run a SWAC gauntlet as it is, with 36 scholarships verses 63 for every SWAC school that it would play in the afformentioned scenario. WELL DUH? i would not expect Tuskegee to be able to run the SWAC gauntlet with only 36 scholarships and be a "Southern" of the east, but if we could theoretically pencil Tuskegee into the SWAC with 63 scholarships AND the exact same coaching staff we've had for the past 9 years, it would be hard to argue that Tuskegee (or Albany State or Ft Valley) would not be competitive. I mean for crying out loud,, lets not forget, ASU and AAMU are only less than 15 or so years from being Div II-A and battling for their lives in the SIAC and now look where they are; both have challenged for the SWAC Championship if not won it outright.
Texas Southern Fan
Well-Known Member
How many times is the Southwestern Athletic Conference going to help Southern Univ. get to a championship game? First the conference office help Southern?s baseball team qualify for the baseball tournament last year by making a deal with PV under the table. Now the conference is making Pine Bluff make up a game against Alabama State to try and help Southern get the SWAC Championship game. This is the same conference office who said Southern did have to play Arkansas Pine Bluff because they couldn?t find a good convenient date for Southern. I bet Southern could find a date right now that was convenient to play Pine Bluff.
Regina Belle said it best ?What goes around?.
Regina Belle said it best ?What goes around?.
Jag-Tig
Member
The comments on this post are amazing. Those of you who know me, know that I'm going to always be objective about situations like this, regardless of the team(s) that I support.
Bottom line, all of us should want the BEST teams in the conference representing the EAST and the WEST. Unfortunately, we really don't know the best team among UAPB and SU because they haven't played each other. Regardless of how we got here, we're here and there's nothing we can do about it but let it play out. I would have had this same position had SU won Saturday. But we didn't. I can't be mad about it...if it's meant to be, then it will happen. GSU simply out-played and out-coached SU, bottom line. Now what?
The folks who spend their time hating on SU are having the best times of their lives right now and that's quite sad. Seems to me that Ala. State would want a rematch against SU, the defending champion. That would be a great scenario, but it's being overshadowed by all of the unfortunate circumstances that have surrounded this season.
I'm also quite disappointed that Coe even said anything about his 'strategy' for this game against PB. What purpose did it serve? What does that say to your players? Regardless of whether he plays his starters or 3rd string, it's not illegal. Even if he only said it because he truly plans to rest his starters, it had the wrong tone and sent the wrong message. Hence the fact that some people are thinking that he's trying to 'lose' the game. I hate the fact that all eyes will be on this weekend's 'make-up' game because the real focus should be on the SWAC championship game.
And speaking of the SCG, if SU is NOT in the game, well, we know there won't be many people there. I know that it's comments like that that make people hate us even more and for that I apologize. But, you can't deny the truth. You might not like it, but you can't deny it. From a pure competition stand-point, I have no problem with Pine Bluff being in the SCG...if that's how it plays out. I just would like to see a good, competitive atmosphere, but I honestly don't know if that would occur if PB is representing the west.
I'll end this post the way I started it...the TWO BEST TEAMS SHOULD BE PLAYING IN THE SWAC CHAMPIONSHIP GAME. Can we honestly and objectively determine who those teams are? [THIS LAST QUESTION IS RHETORICAL...]
As for the original intent of this thread, Alabama State can't possibly expect to be national champs with a lost to Tuskegee...(no disrespect to TU fans...great team and always has been...I'm just saying that ON PAPER, a DI-AA loss to a DII doesn't look good for the so-called national champion. Let's just admit it. We simply need to separate DI from DII for poll purpuses. Who came up with this system and why has it been allowed to continue? )
Bottom line, all of us should want the BEST teams in the conference representing the EAST and the WEST. Unfortunately, we really don't know the best team among UAPB and SU because they haven't played each other. Regardless of how we got here, we're here and there's nothing we can do about it but let it play out. I would have had this same position had SU won Saturday. But we didn't. I can't be mad about it...if it's meant to be, then it will happen. GSU simply out-played and out-coached SU, bottom line. Now what?
The folks who spend their time hating on SU are having the best times of their lives right now and that's quite sad. Seems to me that Ala. State would want a rematch against SU, the defending champion. That would be a great scenario, but it's being overshadowed by all of the unfortunate circumstances that have surrounded this season.
I'm also quite disappointed that Coe even said anything about his 'strategy' for this game against PB. What purpose did it serve? What does that say to your players? Regardless of whether he plays his starters or 3rd string, it's not illegal. Even if he only said it because he truly plans to rest his starters, it had the wrong tone and sent the wrong message. Hence the fact that some people are thinking that he's trying to 'lose' the game. I hate the fact that all eyes will be on this weekend's 'make-up' game because the real focus should be on the SWAC championship game.
And speaking of the SCG, if SU is NOT in the game, well, we know there won't be many people there. I know that it's comments like that that make people hate us even more and for that I apologize. But, you can't deny the truth. You might not like it, but you can't deny it. From a pure competition stand-point, I have no problem with Pine Bluff being in the SCG...if that's how it plays out. I just would like to see a good, competitive atmosphere, but I honestly don't know if that would occur if PB is representing the west.
I'll end this post the way I started it...the TWO BEST TEAMS SHOULD BE PLAYING IN THE SWAC CHAMPIONSHIP GAME. Can we honestly and objectively determine who those teams are? [THIS LAST QUESTION IS RHETORICAL...]
As for the original intent of this thread, Alabama State can't possibly expect to be national champs with a lost to Tuskegee...(no disrespect to TU fans...great team and always has been...I'm just saying that ON PAPER, a DI-AA loss to a DII doesn't look good for the so-called national champion. Let's just admit it. We simply need to separate DI from DII for poll purpuses. Who came up with this system and why has it been allowed to continue? )
Da_Sperm
New Member
Jay-Tig,
First off, we will know who will be the best team West after the game Saturday. It is simply amazing the comments SU is making now. I mean the tone was totally different leading up to the GSU/SU game.
Secondly as for attendance, this is a championship game, not a bowl game. If it were a bowl game, then I would invite SU every year because the purpose of a bowl game is to put as many butts in the seats as possible. The purpose of a championship game is to determine the CHAMPION. Stop associating the SCG with attendance.
There isn't one SU person that has seen UAPB play. Look at our common opponents, we were just as competitive or even more competitive than SU against them. How can you say the game wouldn't be competitive if UAPB represents the West?
First off, we will know who will be the best team West after the game Saturday. It is simply amazing the comments SU is making now. I mean the tone was totally different leading up to the GSU/SU game.
Secondly as for attendance, this is a championship game, not a bowl game. If it were a bowl game, then I would invite SU every year because the purpose of a bowl game is to put as many butts in the seats as possible. The purpose of a championship game is to determine the CHAMPION. Stop associating the SCG with attendance.
There isn't one SU person that has seen UAPB play. Look at our common opponents, we were just as competitive or even more competitive than SU against them. How can you say the game wouldn't be competitive if UAPB represents the West?
mighty hornet
The HMIC!!
You make that comment there (which I agree with), but yet you turn around and start talking about how Coe was "wrong" to say he will rest his starters. For the UMPTEENTH time, Coe said that a long time ago. He didn't know how the season would shake out. And please don't act as if any other coach would do it differently. In essence, you SU people are wanting Coe to play at full strength in a meaningless game, while SU is having a bye week. It doesnt' work like that. No doubt, ASU would probably want another game against SU in the SCG, but it's not our responsibility to help you get there. Especially to the detriment of our own team!Jag-Tig said:
Again, if SU people want to be mad about something in this scenario, then you can be mad with 2 things.
1)That you were so high and mighty and didn't feel the need to play PB (even when you had MUTUAL open dates)
2) After being in control of your own destiny, you lost the BC.
Seems to me that SU would have stepped up on the field in the BC to guarantee this "rematch" and the "great scenario". Especially seeing how Coe's comments were already on the table!!!!!
It's just too bad that SU couldn't handle it's own business.
It says that he is trying to get his team as healthy as possible to play in a championship game, as opposed to trying to help SU get to the BC. Sorry, I know yall want him to help you out, but I'm sure, that's the least of his concerns. The game that ASU plays on Dec. 11 will be for the SWAC Championship ,whether SU is in it or not. What's wrong with Coe preparing his team for that date??????????????
mighty hornet
The HMIC!!
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:Da_Sperm said:
HORNETSWARM
Well-Known Member
There should be a National Black Champion for Div.1AA and a different poll given for Div.II. There is no way that a Div.1A poll will share the same poll with AA or II. So, we all need a National Black Champion in different divisions, but crowning a champion should be the end result.
MACHIAVELLI
Chairman/C.E.O.
They will probably give it to Albany State
jlwilson70127
New Orleans JAG4LIFE
What are the prerequisites form being named the National Black College Champions? Is it just for the SWAC schools or for all HBCU"s? Hampton is the MEAC Champ with a 10-1 records. Will they be considered? If Alabama State goes up to Pine Bluff and throws that game, I don't think that would go well with the selection committee.
northern tiger
Active Member
philharmonic said:
Yeah. I guess they didn't watch the Batou Classic.
Jag-Tig
Member
Da_Sperm said:
Lawd hav' murcy... :smh:
Wow. How defensive can you guys get? Um, where in my post did you see me say the game wouldn't be competitive if PB was in it???? Are you speaking to someone else? I SAID from a pure competition standpoint, I have NO PROBLEM with PB being in the game. Did you notice that not one time did I disagree with how good Pine Bluff is? Did I say anywhere in my post that SU deserves to be there over Pine Bluff?? I don't want SU there if we didn't earn it. Please don't confuse my posts with some others.
And if you want to get technical, you really don't HAVE to have a championship game to crown a champion. That's just what the bylaws call for right now. It's easy to change. If you don't have a SCG everyone would HAVE to play everyone else and you play it out during the regular season and be done with it. There's a way to make it work. The SWAC hasn't always had a SCG. Just because we are in divisions doesn't mean we HAVE to have a SCG. (that's another post for another time).
Anyway, if we follow your logic about attendance at SCG, you're saying that it wouldn't matter if there were just two people at the game. What a great atmosphere for the players. Well, guess what...some money's got to be made somewhere to pay for costs of hosting that game. Yeah, the game is played on the field, but having it at a neutral site is a complete waste of time if you don't have any fans or make any money. Move it to a campus site (team with best overall record or whatever), have the SWAC office pay the host school a stipend for hosting it and then you're ga-run-teed to have some folks at the game and at least break even.
And as for Coe's comments...I do NOT disagree with his LOGIC of resting players before the championship game...makes sense to me to do that...but how many coaches do you know that actually say that's what they plan to do? They may say they'll rest a certain player because he's already banged up, but seriously, can you recall any coaches who have made Coe's comments EVEN BEFORE he knew he'd be playing in the championship game? Why? What was the purpose for saying that?
You guys seem to think that just because he made those comments a month ago makes it different somehow. Bottom line, it was his tone and attitude. And sometimes that speaks louder than words.
Please stop being defensive...I'm not the enemy. I just speak honestly, whether I'm an SU fan or not. And I will say this ONE MORE time... I would have said all of this even if SU had won. I AM A REALIST. I'm not so blinded by my loyalty that I can't be honest. I've been in this business too long to be blinded by loyalty. Loyalty can turn around and bite you in the booty.
Was this scheduling a fiasco? Of course! On ALL sides. Do I wish we (SU) could stand up and take our share of the blame? Of course....someone has to be the bigger person in all of this. But, again, WHAT CAN WE DO ABOUT IT NOW? Play it out and may the best team win.
Now all you Ala. State and PB fans stop being so defensive. Though we lost the BC, I ain't mad about it. If SU doesn't come to the SCG, I can't be mad about that either. We had our shot.
Now I gots to get back to work...I gots me a football championship game in Atlanta to get ready for...
Da_Sperm
New Member
Jag-Tig said:
That's saying the game wouldn't be competitive if UAPB was in it to me. Doesn't matter, UAPB has in my book a play-off game Saturday. The season ended for us 3 weeks ago. We win, we keep playing, we lose, we go home. I'm thinking that is setting the tone for UAPB to be competitive at least.
On the attendance tip, no doubt the game will have better attendance figures if SU was in the game compared to any other West team. Is that a good enough reason for the SWAC to cater to SU to get to the SCG? From a financial standpoint, yes. If that is the case, then SU and JSU should play in BHAM every year. My problem is the SWAC has to realize that SU and GSU will not represent the West every year. UAPB, TxSU and PVU will eventually get their day. Don't go changing rules or created rules in mid-season to give SU an edge to get to the game.
GramTigress
Kelsey's Mom
It's SU's bed, and now it has to sleep in it
By JOE SCHIEFELBEIN
jschiefelbein@theadvocate.com
Advocate sports writer
Maybe this is justice.
That doesn't make it any easier on the Southern players.
But there it is.
Southern and UAPB should have played on the field to decide the Western Division representative in the Southwestern Athletic Conference title game on Dec. 11. The SWAC should have made two divisional foes play each other.
Neither happened.
http://2theadvocate.com/stories/112904/spo_joecol001.shtml
By JOE SCHIEFELBEIN
jschiefelbein@theadvocate.com
Advocate sports writer
Maybe this is justice.
That doesn't make it any easier on the Southern players.
But there it is.
Southern and UAPB should have played on the field to decide the Western Division representative in the Southwestern Athletic Conference title game on Dec. 11. The SWAC should have made two divisional foes play each other.
Neither happened.
http://2theadvocate.com/stories/112904/spo_joecol001.shtml
