A question about tithing
- Thread starter IWJNSU
- Start date
- Status
... the truth shall set you free
THE FIRST TITHE LAW
The first tithe law was enacted by God at Sinai and addressed only to Israel. God wrote the Ten Commandment on tables of stone with his finger, and they were placed inside the Ark. Deut. 10:1-3. Moses wrote the Book of the Law, and it was placed beside the Ark of the Covenant. Deut. 31-24:26. This was the Old Covenant Laws that ended at the cross. Jesus is the author of the New Covenant.
Who is to Receive the Tithe?
All Levites are to Receive "all" the Tithe.
Num. 18:21, 23-24 (NIV) 21?I give to the Levites all the tithes in Israel as their inheritance in return for the work they do while serving at the Tent of Meeting. 23It is the Levites who are to do the work at the Tent of Meeting and bear the responsibility for offenses against it. This is a lasting ordinance for the generations to come. They will receive no inheritance among the Israelites. 24Instead, I give to the Levites as their inheritance the tithes that the Israelites present as an offering to the LORD. That is why I said concerning them: ?They will have no inheritance among the Israelites.??
NOTE: All the tithe were to be given only to the Levites as an inheritance. Does anyone see the gospel minister listed as receiving tithe? Tithe is an Old Covenant Law and was never introduced into the New Covenant.
The Priests that Ministered in the Sanctuary are to
Receive One Tenth of that Tithe From the Levites
Num. 18:25 through Num. 18:26 (NIV) 25The LORD said to Moses, 26"Speak to the Levites and say to them: ?When you receive from the Israelites the tithe I give you as your inheritance, you must present a tenth of that tithe as the LORD?S offering.
NOTE: The ministering Levite (priests) are to receive one tenth of the tithe they receive from the Levites.
Neh 10:38 - Neh 10:39 (NIV) 38A priest descended from Aaron is to accompany the Levites when they receive the tithes, and the Levites are to bring a tenth of the tithes up to the house of our God, to the storerooms of the treasury. 39The people of Israel, including the Levites, are to bring their contributions of grain, new wine and oil to the storerooms where the articles for the sanctuary are kept and where the ministering priests, the gatekeepers and the singers stay.
The tithe law never included Gospel Ministers. Are Gospel Ministers Levite priests that minister in the Sanctuary under the Old Covenant? It is amazing how the Church Leaders can twist the Scripture and quote Ellen White's nonsense to line their pockets and scam their members.
Does God Accept Money For Tithe?
No! It is grain, fruit and animals.
Lev. 27:30 through Lev. 27:34 (NIV) 30??A tithe of everything from the land, whether grain from the soil or fruit from the trees, belongs to the LORD; it is holy to the LORD. 31If a man redeems any of his tithe, he must add a fifth of the value to it. 32The entire tithe of the herd and flock?every tenth animal that passes under the shepherd?s rod?will be holy to the LORD. 33He must not pick out the good from the bad or make any substitution. If he does make a substitution, both the animal and its substitute become holy and cannot be redeemed.?? 34These are the commands the LORD gave Moses on Mount Sinai for the Israelites.
NOTE: Currency such as silver, gold, talents and shekels was not allowed to pay tithe. So if you pay tithe with money you are violating the tithe law. Tithe payers are to run every tenth animal under the rod and give that animal as tithe. So when your church Pastor asks you to pay tithe, I guess you will have drop a lot of sheep or cows, fruit or grain, in the offering plate at church to keep the tithe law. Wow!
Those that were not in the agriculture or animal business were not required to tithe. Such as fishermen, carpenters, and the makers of furniture, pottery, clothing, boats, etc.
THE SECOND TITHE LAW
What is the Yearly Tithe?
It is tithe that is eaten and drank by Israel in a party setting to revere God.
Deut. 14:22 through Deut. 14:29 (NIV) 22Be sure to set aside a tenth of all that your fields produce each year. 23Eat the tithe of your grain, new wine and oil, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks in the presence of the LORD your God at the place he will choose as a dwelling for his Name, so that you may learn to revere the LORD your God always. 24But if that place is too distant and you have been blessed by the LORD your God and cannot carry your tithe (because the place where the LORD will choose to put his Name is so far away), 25then exchange your tithe for silver, and take the silver with you and go to the place the LORD your God will choose. 26Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the LORD your God and rejoice. 27And do not neglect the Levites living in your towns, for they have no allotment or inheritance of their own.
NOTE: The annual tithe is to be eaten by the Jews. The annual tithe can be converted to silver if you have a large herd and the town was far away to take the animals. If this is the case you can exchange the animals for silver, and then buy wine or other fermented drinks that can be eaten by you, your household, and the Levites at a place determined by the LORD.
Has your church ever allow you to use your tithe to have a party and drink fermented drink? You might bring this to your Pastor's attention, that you would like to party with your tithe as commanded in the Bible! And don't forget the Levites living in your town. Your Pastors are not invited, as they are not part of this law! Of course you are not invited either because this is just for Israel not New Testament Christians.
THE THIRD TITHE LAW
What is the Third Year Tithe Law?
The Third Year Tithe to be eaten by the Levites, fatherless, aliens, and widows.
Deut. 14:28, 29 (NIV) 28At the end of every three years, bring all the tithes of that year?s produce and store it in your towns, 29so that the Levites (who have no allotment or inheritance of their own) and the aliens, the fatherless and the widows who live in your towns may come and eat and be satisfied, and so that the LORD your God may bless you in all the work of your hands.
NOTE: Why does your church not follow the Third Year Tithe law and hold a feast for these people from the produce brought in and stored in the towns. Your church leaders will not even feed the fatherless and widows from your tithe, but pocket the money.
EGW has a real problem with this tithe law. She rejects God's law by not wanting to feed the poor from tithe. EGW: "The tithe is set apart for a special use. It is not to be regarded as a poor fund." Counsels on Stewardship, P.103 R & H Supplement, Dec. 1, 1896.
Where is the Tithe to Be Stored?
Tithe is to be stored in a special "storeroom"
Neh. 10:37 through Neh. 10:39 (NIV) 37?Moreover, we will bring to the storerooms of the house of our God, to the priests, the first of our ground meal, of our grain offerings, of the fruit of all our trees and of our new wine and oil. And we will bring a tithe of our crops to the Levites, for it is the Levites who collect the tithes in all the towns where we work. 38A priest descended from Aaron is to accompany the Levites when they receive the tithes, and the Levites are to bring a tenth of the tithes up to the house of our God, to the storerooms of the treasury. 39The people of Israel, including the Levites, are to bring their contributions of grain, new wine and oil to the storerooms where the articles for the sanctuary are kept and where the ministering priests, the gatekeepers and the singers stay. ?We will not neglect the house of our God.?
NOTE: There were many Levitical cities that were given to the Levites and they stored the tithe in storehouses in these cities. Numbers 35:1-5, Joshua 21. Israel were to give to the Levites the first of their ground meal, fruit, wine, oil, crops and a tithe of your crops. And the Levites are to give a tithe from that and take it to the storeroom where articles of the Sanctuary are kept. If you do not follow this program then you are not tithing!
As you can see the Conference offices is not the Bible Storehouse as there are no ministering priests, gatekeepers and singers living there.
Who is Robbing God?
Malachi Was Addressed to the Levites of Israel, Not the Christian Church
(Mal 3:8, 9 NIV) ""Will a man rob God? Yet you rob me. "But you ask, 'How do we rob you?' "In tithes and offerings." "You are under a curse--the whole nation of you--because you are robbing me."
NOTE: This text is God's rebuke against the Levites Priests that were to give one tenth of all the tithe that came in to them and they in turn were to give one tenth of that to the ministering priests. The Levites were the ones that were robbing God and not obeying the Covenant God made with Israel. It was not all the Israelites that were robbing God. Chapters 2 and 3 make it clear that this was directed against the Levites which caused the whole nation to come under God's curse. When the offending Levites would start paying tithe to the ministering priests, then God would open the storehouse for them to receive blessings.
It is impossible for Christians to rob God in tithe as God has not transferred or given a tithe law to Christians. Christians receive blessings from God for having Christ as their Savior and not by any works of the Old Covenant Laws.
How often have you heard this from the pulpit, that you are robbing God by not returning a faithful tithe? You see it on the "Tithe Envelope." Malachi is the most used text to scam Christians out of their money by church pastors, as they have no New Covenant support for tithing. Church members are led to believe that if you are not returning your tithe, then you are not going to heaven, because you are a thief. The Church leaders that tell you this are liars. They are denying Christ, by using Old Covenant laws. Church Leaders are the ones that are sinning by leading you to believe tithing is binding on Christians. In so doing they are denying Christ's finished work at the cross. Jesus Canceled Old Covenant Laws
(Col 2:14 NIV) "having thcanceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross."
(EPH 2:15 NIV) "by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations.
Note: Paul is talking about the Old Covenant laws that God made with Israel. This would include Civil Laws, Dietary Laws of Clean and Unclean foods, laws dealing with the Sanctuary Service, and tithing laws to support Levites Priests. The point in time that the written code was canceled was when Jesus died on the cross. (Mark 15:38 NIV) "The curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom."
Jesus Did Not Teach Tithing to Christians
(Mat 23:23 NIV) ""Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former."
NOTE: Jesus was not here advocating Christians to tithe. Jesus was reprimanding the Pharisees for not having justice and mercy, while being exact in their tithing. The Pharisees were obeying the Levitical Law of tithing and disobeying the most important part of the Law, justice, mercy and faithfulness. Jesus was here speaking to the Pharisees under the Old Covenant and not to the Christian Church. If Christians insist on following the Levitical Law they would have to find Levite Priests that serve in the Temple Sanctuary to give their tithes of animals, fruit and grain (mint, dill, and cummin). When was the last time you dropped this in the offering plate?
The Gospel Minister are to Be Paid
(1 Cor 9:13 NIV) "Don't you know that those who work in the temple get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in what is offered on the altar?"
(1 Cor 9:14 NIV) "In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel."
NOTE: Some interpret the "the same way" as meaning that the tithe is now to be paid to the gospel minister. Paul is explaining that the laborer is worthy of being paid for his labor. He contrasts the temple worker getting his food from the altar and the gospel preacher making his living from the gospel. Tithe is not mentioned as the means of payment or that the gospel minister is to get his food from the altar.
If this were to be a literal application to the gospel workers to "eat their food from the alter", they would have to eat their food as recorded in Leviticus. I do not think any SDA gospel minister would follow this, and especially if he was a vegetarian.
Eating food from the Alter: Lev. 7:1 through Lev. 7:7 (NIV) 1??These are the regulations for the guilt offering, which is most holy: 2The guilt offering is to be slaughtered in the place where the burnt offering is slaughtered, and its blood is to be sprinkled against the altar on all sides. 3All its fat shall be offered: the fat tail and the fat that covers the inner parts, 4both kidneys with the fat on them near the loins, and the covering of the liver, which is to be removed with the kidneys. 5The priest shall burn them on the altar as an offering made to the LORD by fire. It is a guilt offering. 6Any male in a priest?s family may eat it, but it must be eaten in a holy place; it is most holy.7??The same law applies to both the sin offering and the guilt offering: They belong to the priest who makes atonement with them.
NOTE: God tells us that the gospel ministers and workers deserve to be paid for their labor. Here is God's program.
(1 Tim 5:17 NIV) "The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honor, especially those whose work is preaching and teaching."
(1 Tim 5:18 NIV) "For the Scripture says, "Do not muzzle the ox while it is treading out the grain," and "The worker deserves his wages.""
Note: Paul never told the members of the Christian Church to give their tithes to the gospel ministers instead of the Levites. If this were the case the Jews would have declared war on Paul. Instead the Bible is silent
on tithe being diverted to the Christian Church. Also with the Gentile converts coming into the church, would need instructions on how to tithe in the same way Adventist Leaders teach their new converts how to tithe.
Bible Guidelines For Giving
(2 Cor 9:6 NIV) "Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously."
(2 Cor 9:7 NIV) "Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver."
NOTE: The Christian is free to choose the amount of offering to give to God. If it is more than a tithe (ten percent) or less than a tithe it is acceptable to God, if it is from the heart without compulsion. It is also up to the individual to decide on where their offerings go. Also, it is for you to decide if you are giving sparingly or generously, and not to be decided for you by your church leaders. The Bible does not authorize church leaders to tell you how your money is to be spent.
The first tithe law was enacted by God at Sinai and addressed only to Israel. God wrote the Ten Commandment on tables of stone with his finger, and they were placed inside the Ark. Deut. 10:1-3. Moses wrote the Book of the Law, and it was placed beside the Ark of the Covenant. Deut. 31-24:26. This was the Old Covenant Laws that ended at the cross. Jesus is the author of the New Covenant.
Who is to Receive the Tithe?
All Levites are to Receive "all" the Tithe.
Num. 18:21, 23-24 (NIV) 21?I give to the Levites all the tithes in Israel as their inheritance in return for the work they do while serving at the Tent of Meeting. 23It is the Levites who are to do the work at the Tent of Meeting and bear the responsibility for offenses against it. This is a lasting ordinance for the generations to come. They will receive no inheritance among the Israelites. 24Instead, I give to the Levites as their inheritance the tithes that the Israelites present as an offering to the LORD. That is why I said concerning them: ?They will have no inheritance among the Israelites.??
NOTE: All the tithe were to be given only to the Levites as an inheritance. Does anyone see the gospel minister listed as receiving tithe? Tithe is an Old Covenant Law and was never introduced into the New Covenant.
The Priests that Ministered in the Sanctuary are to
Receive One Tenth of that Tithe From the Levites
Num. 18:25 through Num. 18:26 (NIV) 25The LORD said to Moses, 26"Speak to the Levites and say to them: ?When you receive from the Israelites the tithe I give you as your inheritance, you must present a tenth of that tithe as the LORD?S offering.
NOTE: The ministering Levite (priests) are to receive one tenth of the tithe they receive from the Levites.
Neh 10:38 - Neh 10:39 (NIV) 38A priest descended from Aaron is to accompany the Levites when they receive the tithes, and the Levites are to bring a tenth of the tithes up to the house of our God, to the storerooms of the treasury. 39The people of Israel, including the Levites, are to bring their contributions of grain, new wine and oil to the storerooms where the articles for the sanctuary are kept and where the ministering priests, the gatekeepers and the singers stay.
The tithe law never included Gospel Ministers. Are Gospel Ministers Levite priests that minister in the Sanctuary under the Old Covenant? It is amazing how the Church Leaders can twist the Scripture and quote Ellen White's nonsense to line their pockets and scam their members.
Does God Accept Money For Tithe?
No! It is grain, fruit and animals.
Lev. 27:30 through Lev. 27:34 (NIV) 30??A tithe of everything from the land, whether grain from the soil or fruit from the trees, belongs to the LORD; it is holy to the LORD. 31If a man redeems any of his tithe, he must add a fifth of the value to it. 32The entire tithe of the herd and flock?every tenth animal that passes under the shepherd?s rod?will be holy to the LORD. 33He must not pick out the good from the bad or make any substitution. If he does make a substitution, both the animal and its substitute become holy and cannot be redeemed.?? 34These are the commands the LORD gave Moses on Mount Sinai for the Israelites.
NOTE: Currency such as silver, gold, talents and shekels was not allowed to pay tithe. So if you pay tithe with money you are violating the tithe law. Tithe payers are to run every tenth animal under the rod and give that animal as tithe. So when your church Pastor asks you to pay tithe, I guess you will have drop a lot of sheep or cows, fruit or grain, in the offering plate at church to keep the tithe law. Wow!
Those that were not in the agriculture or animal business were not required to tithe. Such as fishermen, carpenters, and the makers of furniture, pottery, clothing, boats, etc.
THE SECOND TITHE LAW
What is the Yearly Tithe?
It is tithe that is eaten and drank by Israel in a party setting to revere God.
Deut. 14:22 through Deut. 14:29 (NIV) 22Be sure to set aside a tenth of all that your fields produce each year. 23Eat the tithe of your grain, new wine and oil, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks in the presence of the LORD your God at the place he will choose as a dwelling for his Name, so that you may learn to revere the LORD your God always. 24But if that place is too distant and you have been blessed by the LORD your God and cannot carry your tithe (because the place where the LORD will choose to put his Name is so far away), 25then exchange your tithe for silver, and take the silver with you and go to the place the LORD your God will choose. 26Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the LORD your God and rejoice. 27And do not neglect the Levites living in your towns, for they have no allotment or inheritance of their own.
NOTE: The annual tithe is to be eaten by the Jews. The annual tithe can be converted to silver if you have a large herd and the town was far away to take the animals. If this is the case you can exchange the animals for silver, and then buy wine or other fermented drinks that can be eaten by you, your household, and the Levites at a place determined by the LORD.
Has your church ever allow you to use your tithe to have a party and drink fermented drink? You might bring this to your Pastor's attention, that you would like to party with your tithe as commanded in the Bible! And don't forget the Levites living in your town. Your Pastors are not invited, as they are not part of this law! Of course you are not invited either because this is just for Israel not New Testament Christians.
THE THIRD TITHE LAW
What is the Third Year Tithe Law?
The Third Year Tithe to be eaten by the Levites, fatherless, aliens, and widows.
Deut. 14:28, 29 (NIV) 28At the end of every three years, bring all the tithes of that year?s produce and store it in your towns, 29so that the Levites (who have no allotment or inheritance of their own) and the aliens, the fatherless and the widows who live in your towns may come and eat and be satisfied, and so that the LORD your God may bless you in all the work of your hands.
NOTE: Why does your church not follow the Third Year Tithe law and hold a feast for these people from the produce brought in and stored in the towns. Your church leaders will not even feed the fatherless and widows from your tithe, but pocket the money.
EGW has a real problem with this tithe law. She rejects God's law by not wanting to feed the poor from tithe. EGW: "The tithe is set apart for a special use. It is not to be regarded as a poor fund." Counsels on Stewardship, P.103 R & H Supplement, Dec. 1, 1896.
Where is the Tithe to Be Stored?
Tithe is to be stored in a special "storeroom"
Neh. 10:37 through Neh. 10:39 (NIV) 37?Moreover, we will bring to the storerooms of the house of our God, to the priests, the first of our ground meal, of our grain offerings, of the fruit of all our trees and of our new wine and oil. And we will bring a tithe of our crops to the Levites, for it is the Levites who collect the tithes in all the towns where we work. 38A priest descended from Aaron is to accompany the Levites when they receive the tithes, and the Levites are to bring a tenth of the tithes up to the house of our God, to the storerooms of the treasury. 39The people of Israel, including the Levites, are to bring their contributions of grain, new wine and oil to the storerooms where the articles for the sanctuary are kept and where the ministering priests, the gatekeepers and the singers stay. ?We will not neglect the house of our God.?
NOTE: There were many Levitical cities that were given to the Levites and they stored the tithe in storehouses in these cities. Numbers 35:1-5, Joshua 21. Israel were to give to the Levites the first of their ground meal, fruit, wine, oil, crops and a tithe of your crops. And the Levites are to give a tithe from that and take it to the storeroom where articles of the Sanctuary are kept. If you do not follow this program then you are not tithing!
As you can see the Conference offices is not the Bible Storehouse as there are no ministering priests, gatekeepers and singers living there.
Who is Robbing God?
Malachi Was Addressed to the Levites of Israel, Not the Christian Church
(Mal 3:8, 9 NIV) ""Will a man rob God? Yet you rob me. "But you ask, 'How do we rob you?' "In tithes and offerings." "You are under a curse--the whole nation of you--because you are robbing me."
NOTE: This text is God's rebuke against the Levites Priests that were to give one tenth of all the tithe that came in to them and they in turn were to give one tenth of that to the ministering priests. The Levites were the ones that were robbing God and not obeying the Covenant God made with Israel. It was not all the Israelites that were robbing God. Chapters 2 and 3 make it clear that this was directed against the Levites which caused the whole nation to come under God's curse. When the offending Levites would start paying tithe to the ministering priests, then God would open the storehouse for them to receive blessings.
It is impossible for Christians to rob God in tithe as God has not transferred or given a tithe law to Christians. Christians receive blessings from God for having Christ as their Savior and not by any works of the Old Covenant Laws.
How often have you heard this from the pulpit, that you are robbing God by not returning a faithful tithe? You see it on the "Tithe Envelope." Malachi is the most used text to scam Christians out of their money by church pastors, as they have no New Covenant support for tithing. Church members are led to believe that if you are not returning your tithe, then you are not going to heaven, because you are a thief. The Church leaders that tell you this are liars. They are denying Christ, by using Old Covenant laws. Church Leaders are the ones that are sinning by leading you to believe tithing is binding on Christians. In so doing they are denying Christ's finished work at the cross. Jesus Canceled Old Covenant Laws
(Col 2:14 NIV) "having thcanceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross."
(EPH 2:15 NIV) "by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations.
Note: Paul is talking about the Old Covenant laws that God made with Israel. This would include Civil Laws, Dietary Laws of Clean and Unclean foods, laws dealing with the Sanctuary Service, and tithing laws to support Levites Priests. The point in time that the written code was canceled was when Jesus died on the cross. (Mark 15:38 NIV) "The curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom."
Jesus Did Not Teach Tithing to Christians
(Mat 23:23 NIV) ""Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former."
NOTE: Jesus was not here advocating Christians to tithe. Jesus was reprimanding the Pharisees for not having justice and mercy, while being exact in their tithing. The Pharisees were obeying the Levitical Law of tithing and disobeying the most important part of the Law, justice, mercy and faithfulness. Jesus was here speaking to the Pharisees under the Old Covenant and not to the Christian Church. If Christians insist on following the Levitical Law they would have to find Levite Priests that serve in the Temple Sanctuary to give their tithes of animals, fruit and grain (mint, dill, and cummin). When was the last time you dropped this in the offering plate?
The Gospel Minister are to Be Paid
(1 Cor 9:13 NIV) "Don't you know that those who work in the temple get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in what is offered on the altar?"
(1 Cor 9:14 NIV) "In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel."
NOTE: Some interpret the "the same way" as meaning that the tithe is now to be paid to the gospel minister. Paul is explaining that the laborer is worthy of being paid for his labor. He contrasts the temple worker getting his food from the altar and the gospel preacher making his living from the gospel. Tithe is not mentioned as the means of payment or that the gospel minister is to get his food from the altar.
If this were to be a literal application to the gospel workers to "eat their food from the alter", they would have to eat their food as recorded in Leviticus. I do not think any SDA gospel minister would follow this, and especially if he was a vegetarian.
Eating food from the Alter: Lev. 7:1 through Lev. 7:7 (NIV) 1??These are the regulations for the guilt offering, which is most holy: 2The guilt offering is to be slaughtered in the place where the burnt offering is slaughtered, and its blood is to be sprinkled against the altar on all sides. 3All its fat shall be offered: the fat tail and the fat that covers the inner parts, 4both kidneys with the fat on them near the loins, and the covering of the liver, which is to be removed with the kidneys. 5The priest shall burn them on the altar as an offering made to the LORD by fire. It is a guilt offering. 6Any male in a priest?s family may eat it, but it must be eaten in a holy place; it is most holy.7??The same law applies to both the sin offering and the guilt offering: They belong to the priest who makes atonement with them.
NOTE: God tells us that the gospel ministers and workers deserve to be paid for their labor. Here is God's program.
(1 Tim 5:17 NIV) "The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honor, especially those whose work is preaching and teaching."
(1 Tim 5:18 NIV) "For the Scripture says, "Do not muzzle the ox while it is treading out the grain," and "The worker deserves his wages.""
Note: Paul never told the members of the Christian Church to give their tithes to the gospel ministers instead of the Levites. If this were the case the Jews would have declared war on Paul. Instead the Bible is silent
on tithe being diverted to the Christian Church. Also with the Gentile converts coming into the church, would need instructions on how to tithe in the same way Adventist Leaders teach their new converts how to tithe.
Bible Guidelines For Giving
(2 Cor 9:6 NIV) "Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously."
(2 Cor 9:7 NIV) "Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver."
NOTE: The Christian is free to choose the amount of offering to give to God. If it is more than a tithe (ten percent) or less than a tithe it is acceptable to God, if it is from the heart without compulsion. It is also up to the individual to decide on where their offerings go. Also, it is for you to decide if you are giving sparingly or generously, and not to be decided for you by your church leaders. The Bible does not authorize church leaders to tell you how your money is to be spent.
Dr H..
Active Member
"To me the subject of tithing or giving is trivia and petty."
Trivia and petty, in the sense that people continue to discuss it generation after generation after generation. Trivia and petty because personally, I have spriturally matured beyond discussing the topic unless, someone need some information.
Our minister is supported by the church , this is his full time job Monday - Sunday from 9:00 am to 6:00 pm and some time to 10:00 pm. His wife works for the school system. He purchases his vehicles, insurance, food and so on out of his salary - there are no extra perts.
If individuals that have a problem giving - that's between them and God and He will meet you on judgment day...
Trivia and petty, in the sense that people continue to discuss it generation after generation after generation. Trivia and petty because personally, I have spriturally matured beyond discussing the topic unless, someone need some information.
Our minister is supported by the church , this is his full time job Monday - Sunday from 9:00 am to 6:00 pm and some time to 10:00 pm. His wife works for the school system. He purchases his vehicles, insurance, food and so on out of his salary - there are no extra perts.
If individuals that have a problem giving - that's between them and God and He will meet you on judgment day...
Giving = Good
Tithing = Impossible, due to no Modern day Levites, etc., etc., etc.
Dr. H,
I?m positive you?ve Read,
that a zeal for God without knowledge is worthless,
& That God only wants worship in Spirit and Truth!
Everyone is ?cut out? for a purpose with God.
Just humble yourself to God?s word, learn and Grow.
I would
Maybe you?ll teach me something about the Bible I don?t know next.
Just not on this matter.
No one knows it all
Everyone can learn,
May God have mercy on us all,
Good Day & God Bless
Oh & FAB5 you would be wise to stop taking that tax write-off.
Tithing = Impossible, due to no Modern day Levites, etc., etc., etc.
Dr. H,
I?m positive you?ve Read,
that a zeal for God without knowledge is worthless,
& That God only wants worship in Spirit and Truth!
Everyone is ?cut out? for a purpose with God.
Just humble yourself to God?s word, learn and Grow.
I would
Maybe you?ll teach me something about the Bible I don?t know next.
Just not on this matter.
No one knows it all
Everyone can learn,
May God have mercy on us all,
Good Day & God Bless
Oh & FAB5 you would be wise to stop taking that tax write-off.
BLAQUE PRINCE
Fug <insert your school here>!
Dr H.. said:
I do not believe the issue at hand is about "problems with giving" or how much to give. The issue is why you are giving which seems to be spelled out specificaly. Once again no one is saying don't give. The issue is following something that was not commanded rather than what WAS commanded. If you call it tithing fine and if you choose to give 10% fine but don't give of compulsion. When you put that 10% mark on it then you have people feeling like they are doing "good works" and some won't give any more than that.
Now whats funny to me is how the truth breaks down around people when it comes to money.
Dr H..
Active Member
Ain't that's the truth. And you know what is if funny, how folks want to quote the OT about music and dancing in worship and use David as their standard of worship. If they are going to base their order of worship on the OT, why not base their giving on the OT tithing.
Wrong, everyone is not cut out by God. A majority of people want to do as they will and set their own standards. That's why God called Israel stiffnecked, a whore, unfaithful and sinful.
hassan
La ilaj? ila Al
Dr H.. said:
I believe that this is the biggest problem with tithing (out of many). Giving, as was mentioned above, is not the problem; it is to whom and for what and how that elicits so much outrage from the morally conscious and cerebrally active.
Giving is a good thing.
It, like enduring hardship with the Grace that God has so generously given to us by, brings us closer to God.
I make it a habit to give every chance I get and I often 'make chances' to give to someone in need.
A see a man or a woman out in the street and I give him/her something to eat.
I see someone that is having a bad day and here comes a smile or a friendly word.
That is charity, that is giving, that is blessed -- at least as far as my heart and soul and head tells me. My personal relationship with God is very important to me to I try to reach out to folks who are in need (even when I'm "broke") because Blessed are they that ....
Houston has about as many homeless people as any other community i have ever known and it also has some of the largest churches i have ever seen.
No, not everyone can sweet-talk a flight attendant on a commercial air carrier to discreetly give you all of the leftover in-flight sandwiches and chips in a garbage bag after all of the other passengers have left the airplane so that he/she can distribute the contents of that garbage bag to a group of homeless folks congregated under an expressway overpass.
Actually....
Yes! Everyone can but many choose not to but, like Dr. H said, that is between them and God.
[thinking to myself: ?how many of these new, beautiful, spacious, 'community-oriented' churches actually extend their ministry to the poor and forgotten to the point of sending those beautiful church buses and vans out to places like Main Street and Fannin and Webster and West Gray to pick folks that spent Saturday night under some cardboard and old, discarded, tattered comforters so they too 'community-oriented' churches would actually tell his/her stockholders, um, members to keep the cash at home and bring in food so that these new members of the church can eat? Wait, one has to be pay, i mean tithe to be a member....]
These pastors are not poor - one can look at their suits as proof of that.
These pastors are intelligent - one can listen to them speak as proof of that.
These pastors are energetic - one can see them at the pulpit as proof of that.
They are able to work regular jobs just like pastors in small churches so that the money tithed/given/whatever can be given to folks that really need it.
I am grateful that God does not operate like men because men want to charge something for everything.
?Can you imagine what things would be like if God really wanted to charge us for all that God has created?
The cool breezes....
The warm sunshine....
The fresh air....
The love....
?Can you imagine what it would be like if God charged us actual dollars to get into Heaven?
Outrageous, ?huh?
Unthinkable, ?right?
You're right because for God to do that, well, He'd be just like those pastors that spend so much time during worship services discussing the petty and trivial instead of actually sharing the Word.
Dr H..
Active Member
hassan
Yep, they pimp the church every Sunday and that congregatin know they are being pimped by the preacher. The problem is they are following the preacher rather than following God.
I preached for four years at a church and the highest I was paid was $150.00 a Sunday. Some of my co-preachers said "$150.00 a Sunday, that's not worth your time to drive eighty mile round trip" My reply was and will always be "I am not going to serve the people or look for a fat check. My purpose is to preach and serve" The could have paid more, but why should I rob the church, when it only cost $20.00 for a tank of gas that would last a week. That's why I know that a large % of those preaching are going to hell for taking advantage of the congregation.
There are several examples in the OT where the Kings of Israel took advantage of the people and God dealt with them in due time.
Yep, they pimp the church every Sunday and that congregatin know they are being pimped by the preacher. The problem is they are following the preacher rather than following God.
I preached for four years at a church and the highest I was paid was $150.00 a Sunday. Some of my co-preachers said "$150.00 a Sunday, that's not worth your time to drive eighty mile round trip" My reply was and will always be "I am not going to serve the people or look for a fat check. My purpose is to preach and serve" The could have paid more, but why should I rob the church, when it only cost $20.00 for a tank of gas that would last a week. That's why I know that a large % of those preaching are going to hell for taking advantage of the congregation.
There are several examples in the OT where the Kings of Israel took advantage of the people and God dealt with them in due time.
docmump
The Arch Nemesis
You know I was listening to Ed Young this morning.
Note: I do not normally listen to him, but this is a new radio station in Houston so I was giving it a listen too.
He said something that applied to this thread. In My Opinion. He said "Our walk with Christ is a faith base walk." He said "First, we should accept the word and do what it says, then we should understand." He said "The reason why people have problem with some of the word is because they want to understand it before they do it(faith). And that is not how it works."
This made much sense to me. The subject is the Tithe. Some don't do it(tithe) so they don't fully understand it(tithing). For the ones that do it(tithing), they understand it(tithe).
This is what my pastor preached about this Sunday.
If Jesus wanted us to follow the new testiments only, why did he refer this passage of scripture to the scribes and Pharisees?
At the end of his message, he said "Leave people alone who dont want to follow what the word of God says." So to this thread, I am leaving it alone. Pay your tithe because the Bible says you should.
Note: I do not normally listen to him, but this is a new radio station in Houston so I was giving it a listen too.
He said something that applied to this thread. In My Opinion. He said "Our walk with Christ is a faith base walk." He said "First, we should accept the word and do what it says, then we should understand." He said "The reason why people have problem with some of the word is because they want to understand it before they do it(faith). And that is not how it works."
This made much sense to me. The subject is the Tithe. Some don't do it(tithe) so they don't fully understand it(tithing). For the ones that do it(tithing), they understand it(tithe).
This is what my pastor preached about this Sunday.
He said some people are like the scribe and Pharisees, get wrapped up in tradition but dont follow the word of God.
If Jesus wanted us to follow the new testiments only, why did he refer this passage of scripture to the scribes and Pharisees?
At the end of his message, he said "Leave people alone who dont want to follow what the word of God says." So to this thread, I am leaving it alone. Pay your tithe because the Bible says you should.
BLAQUE PRINCE
Fug <insert your school here>!
:|
I'm not sure you understood what I meant when I said you trivialized the conversation.
I'm also not sure you understood what Dr. H was getting at. You do realize that one of the definitions of fulfill is to bring to an end right?
I'm not sure you understood what I meant when I said you trivialized the conversation.
I'm also not sure you understood what Dr. H was getting at. You do realize that one of the definitions of fulfill is to bring to an end right?
BLAQUE PRINCE
Fug <insert your school here>!
Then if He wanted us to follow the OT why did he say that?
SLT...So you are telling me that because of divine intervention you are not supposed to understand what I said???? And some of the things you have said in that last post contradict some of the things Dr. H has said on this board totaly. Oh well...."We will understand it better by and by."
SLT = ?I tithe sometimes beyond ten percent?
Wrong, This is impossible, tithe was 10%, more or less is ?something? else
?You cannot separate the OT from the NT. Jesus came to fulfill the OT. Those things still apply today. If not, then in some eyes, the Ten Commandments are null and void, right? I don't think so.?
Wrong, The Bible & You separate and anyone who thinks they are ?tithing? Because you do not obey ALL the OT laws!
Blaque Prince=
?You do realize that one of the definitions of fulfill is to bring to an end right??
You are correct Sir!
Wrong, This is impossible, tithe was 10%, more or less is ?something? else
?You cannot separate the OT from the NT. Jesus came to fulfill the OT. Those things still apply today. If not, then in some eyes, the Ten Commandments are null and void, right? I don't think so.?
Wrong, The Bible & You separate and anyone who thinks they are ?tithing? Because you do not obey ALL the OT laws!
Blaque Prince=
?You do realize that one of the definitions of fulfill is to bring to an end right??
You are correct Sir!
"Tony....no modern day Levites? Then what do you call Pastors and spiritual messengers. Levites are people who carried the spiritual WORD. We have been grafted into that group. So as far as I'm concerned, I AM a modern day Levite."
Num. 18:21, 23-24 (NIV) 21?I give to the Levites all the tithes in Israel as their inheritance in return for the work they do while serving at the Tent of Meeting. 23It is the Levites who are to do the work at the Tent of Meeting and bear the responsibility for offenses against it.
:lol:
SLT, you or no one you Know
did any work at that Tent meeting!
Num. 18:21, 23-24 (NIV) 21?I give to the Levites all the tithes in Israel as their inheritance in return for the work they do while serving at the Tent of Meeting. 23It is the Levites who are to do the work at the Tent of Meeting and bear the responsibility for offenses against it.
:lol:
SLT, you or no one you Know
did any work at that Tent meeting!
BLAQUE PRINCE
Fug <insert your school here>!
You really love to twist words. I said nothing of pleasing Dr. H. You agreed with him and I said that your post contradicts what he has said on this board.
So here it is
Dr. says
Now please clarify for me if I am wrong or have misunderstood what you are saying and I also will admit if I have made a mistake.
So here it is
Dr. says
Now please clarify for me if I am wrong or have misunderstood what you are saying and I also will admit if I have made a mistake.
BLAQUE PRINCE
Fug <insert your school here>!
These things are reiterated in the NT and thats why we are to follow them....not because they are in the OT. There are some things that aren't reiterated and thats why we are not to follow them.
Looking at webster there are only two definitions that could make sense when applied to the word fulfill in that situation. One meaning is stated again later on in the bible and the other isn't.
Tithing is but ONE of the practices and beliefs that people pull from the OT that I speak out against. My question is why do we follow bits and pieces of the OT and not the whole thing. If you want to follow it then follow it all.
Looking at webster there are only two definitions that could make sense when applied to the word fulfill in that situation. One meaning is stated again later on in the bible and the other isn't.
Tithing is but ONE of the practices and beliefs that people pull from the OT that I speak out against. My question is why do we follow bits and pieces of the OT and not the whole thing. If you want to follow it then follow it all.
The ABUSE it has caused
SLT
It is Because this OT law of tithing that was given to Israel, to pay to the Levites for the work they did at the Tent Meeting is the number 1 most perverted issue in the OT. Which has caused great damaged.
Perverted tithing Law = People getting personal wealth built on unGodly principles.
Perverted tithing Law= People thinking they are really doing something Godly, which in Fact they are contributing to a reprobate mind.
SLT
It is Because this OT law of tithing that was given to Israel, to pay to the Levites for the work they did at the Tent Meeting is the number 1 most perverted issue in the OT. Which has caused great damaged.
Perverted tithing Law = People getting personal wealth built on unGodly principles.
Perverted tithing Law= People thinking they are really doing something Godly, which in Fact they are contributing to a reprobate mind.
- Status