BLAQUE PRINCE
Fug <insert your school here>!
FAB5 said:
Tithing is charity?
A question about tithing
- Thread starter IWJNSU
- Start date
- Status
Tithing is charity?
Dr H..
Active Member
This discussion on tithing is really elementary, it was instituted back in Genesis 14:17-20 and it was amplified thought the OT and issued as part of Christianity into the NT. The tithes we give helps in the up-keep of the church building [NT] or the Tabernacle in the OT. It paid for the service of the Leviticus Priest [OT] and Minister / Preacher [NT]. The OT Temple is the typology of the NT Church Building and the OT Priest is the typology of the NT men of God.
It's just a matter of taking OT concept and applying it to NT doctrine.
For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which [be] the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. Hebrews 5:12
The ceremonial laws refer to the sacrificial rituals the priesthood, the sacrifices, the Levitical holy days, the feasts, the temple, the music, the utensils, circumcision, ritual washings, and so on. They were designed to strengthened the faith of the Jews and direct them to the coming Messiah.
The ceremonial laws were directed to those in Israel. They were to restore and reflected God?s mercy and salvation. They were temporary, for as types and shadows they could not remove the sin of Israel [tithing has nothing to do with sin].
They were also designed to teach Israel about their religious, ethical and spiritual separation from the pagan nations [non Hebrews]. One interesting law which forbided the covenant people [Israel] to: mix ?different kinds of seeds? when planting crops, meaning that the people of God should not marry heathans / Gentils. The NT cross-reference can be found in:
Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 2 Cor. 2:14
Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
The saints gave According As they purposed, NOT according as the preacher thrashed them, budgeted, begged, and demanded.
he purposeth in his heart, in other words put your money where your mouth is. if you fell like the blood is worth only .50 cents, then give fifty cents. If it's not worth anything to you, thed do not give.
It's just a matter of taking OT concept and applying it to NT doctrine.
For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which [be] the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. Hebrews 5:12
The ceremonial laws refer to the sacrificial rituals the priesthood, the sacrifices, the Levitical holy days, the feasts, the temple, the music, the utensils, circumcision, ritual washings, and so on. They were designed to strengthened the faith of the Jews and direct them to the coming Messiah.
The ceremonial laws were directed to those in Israel. They were to restore and reflected God?s mercy and salvation. They were temporary, for as types and shadows they could not remove the sin of Israel [tithing has nothing to do with sin].
They were also designed to teach Israel about their religious, ethical and spiritual separation from the pagan nations [non Hebrews]. One interesting law which forbided the covenant people [Israel] to: mix ?different kinds of seeds? when planting crops, meaning that the people of God should not marry heathans / Gentils. The NT cross-reference can be found in:
Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 2 Cor. 2:14
Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
The saints gave According As they purposed, NOT according as the preacher thrashed them, budgeted, begged, and demanded.
he purposeth in his heart, in other words put your money where your mouth is. if you fell like the blood is worth only .50 cents, then give fifty cents. If it's not worth anything to you, thed do not give.
BLAQUE PRINCE
Fug <insert your school here>!
SLT....I hope you are better than this.
I am not talking about what God said. I am talking about YOU trivializg the discussion of whether tithing was commanded for Christians down to someone just not wanting to give. Now that is what YOU did....not God. Don't put words in His mouth.
The discussion evolved to more than do you tithe from your net or your gross and that is what I am referring to.
No whatever God has commanded is not wrong. The question is did He command it of YOU! The fact that its in the bible does not automaticaly mean that it was meant for YOU SPECIFICALLY to follow. To follow some things is basically like saying Jesus did not die on the cross.
Dr. H
This is what I understand from reading. You may call it a tithe if you want but it does not specify any percentage. We are told to give but to do it in the right way and if you can't do it in the right way then you should not give at all. One of the criteria given is to not give of neccesity. If you are giving only because you think you are SUPPOSED to give 10% then you couldn't be following this rule.
I am not talking about what God said. I am talking about YOU trivializg the discussion of whether tithing was commanded for Christians down to someone just not wanting to give. Now that is what YOU did....not God. Don't put words in His mouth.
The discussion evolved to more than do you tithe from your net or your gross and that is what I am referring to.
No whatever God has commanded is not wrong. The question is did He command it of YOU! The fact that its in the bible does not automaticaly mean that it was meant for YOU SPECIFICALLY to follow. To follow some things is basically like saying Jesus did not die on the cross.
Dr. H
This is what I understand from reading. You may call it a tithe if you want but it does not specify any percentage. We are told to give but to do it in the right way and if you can't do it in the right way then you should not give at all. One of the criteria given is to not give of neccesity. If you are giving only because you think you are SUPPOSED to give 10% then you couldn't be following this rule.
BLAQUE PRINCE
Fug <insert your school here>!
FAB5 said:
:lol:
Obedient to whom?
For What?
God never mandated 10% for His Church
Why are people ignoring God?s words?
Just to feel good about themselves?
Dr. H and anyone else I?m going to make a long post FROM THE BIBLE then I?m done
Read the Bible then follow it or do whatever else makes you feel good.
Dr. H your interpretations are flawed.
For What?
God never mandated 10% for His Church
Why are people ignoring God?s words?
Just to feel good about themselves?
Dr. H and anyone else I?m going to make a long post FROM THE BIBLE then I?m done
Read the Bible then follow it or do whatever else makes you feel good.
Dr. H your interpretations are flawed.
THE FIRST TITHE LAW
The first tithe law was enacted by God at Sinai and addressed only to Israel. God wrote the Ten Commandment on tables of stone with his finger, and they were placed inside the Ark. Deut. 10:1-3. Moses wrote the Book of the Law, and it was placed beside the Ark of the Covenant. Deut. 31-24:26. This was the Old Covenant Laws that ended at the cross. Jesus is the author of the New Covenant.
Who is to Receive the Tithe?
All Levites are to Receive "all" the Tithe.
Num. 18:21, 23-24 (NIV) 21?I give to the Levites all the tithes in Israel as their inheritance in return for the work they do while serving at the Tent of Meeting. 23It is the Levites who are to do the work at the Tent of Meeting and bear the responsibility for offenses against it. This is a lasting ordinance for the generations to come. They will receive no inheritance among the Israelites. 24Instead, I give to the Levites as their inheritance the tithes that the Israelites present as an offering to the LORD. That is why I said concerning them: ?They will have no inheritance among the Israelites.??
NOTE: All the tithe were to be given only to the Levites as an inheritance. Does anyone see the gospel minister listed as receiving tithe? Tithe is an Old Covenant Law and was never introduced into the New Covenant.
The Priests that Ministered in the Sanctuary are to
Receive One Tenth of that Tithe From the Levites
Num. 18:25 through Num. 18:26 (NIV) 25The LORD said to Moses, 26"Speak to the Levites and say to them: ?When you receive from the Israelites the tithe I give you as your inheritance, you must present a tenth of that tithe as the LORD?S offering.
NOTE: The ministering Levite (priests) are to receive one tenth of the tithe they receive from the Levites.
Neh 10:38 - Neh 10:39 (NIV) 38A priest descended from Aaron is to accompany the Levites when they receive the tithes, and the Levites are to bring a tenth of the tithes up to the house of our God, to the storerooms of the treasury. 39The people of Israel, including the Levites, are to bring their contributions of grain, new wine and oil to the storerooms where the articles for the sanctuary are kept and where the ministering priests, the gatekeepers and the singers stay.
The tithe law never included Gospel Ministers. Are Gospel Ministers Levite priests that minister in the Sanctuary under the Old Covenant? It is amazing how the Church Leaders can twist the Scripture and quote Ellen White's nonsense to line their pockets and scam their members.
Does God Accept Money For Tithe?
No! It is grain, fruit and animals.
Lev. 27:30 through Lev. 27:34 (NIV) 30??A tithe of everything from the land, whether grain from the soil or fruit from the trees, belongs to the LORD; it is holy to the LORD. 31If a man redeems any of his tithe, he must add a fifth of the value to it. 32The entire tithe of the herd and flock?every tenth animal that passes under the shepherd?s rod?will be holy to the LORD. 33He must not pick out the good from the bad or make any substitution. If he does make a substitution, both the animal and its substitute become holy and cannot be redeemed.?? 34These are the commands the LORD gave Moses on Mount Sinai for the Israelites.
NOTE: Currency such as silver, gold, talents and shekels was not allowed to pay tithe. So if you pay tithe with money you are violating the tithe law. Tithe payers are to run every tenth animal under the rod and give that animal as tithe. So when your church Pastor asks you to pay tithe, I guess you will have drop a lot of sheep or cows, fruit or grain, in the offering plate at church to keep the tithe law. Wow!
Those that were not in the agriculture or animal business were not required to tithe. Such as fishermen, carpenters, and the makers of furniture, pottery, clothing, boats, etc.
THE SECOND TITHE LAW
What is the Yearly Tithe?
It is tithe that is eaten and drank by Israel in a party setting to revere God.
Deut. 14:22 through Deut. 14:29 (NIV) 22Be sure to set aside a tenth of all that your fields produce each year. 23Eat the tithe of your grain, new wine and oil, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks in the presence of the LORD your God at the place he will choose as a dwelling for his Name, so that you may learn to revere the LORD your God always. 24But if that place is too distant and you have been blessed by the LORD your God and cannot carry your tithe (because the place where the LORD will choose to put his Name is so far away), 25then exchange your tithe for silver, and take the silver with you and go to the place the LORD your God will choose. 26Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the LORD your God and rejoice. 27And do not neglect the Levites living in your towns, for they have no allotment or inheritance of their own.
NOTE: The annual tithe is to be eaten by the Jews. The annual tithe can be converted to silver if you have a large herd and the town was far away to take the animals. If this is the case you can exchange the animals for silver, and then buy wine or other fermented drinks that can be eaten by you, your household, and the Levites at a place determined by the LORD.
Has your church ever allow you to use your tithe to have a party and drink fermented drink? You might bring this to your Pastor's attention, that you would like to party with your tithe as commanded in the Bible! And don't forget the Levites living in your town. Your Pastors are not invited, as they are not part of this law! Of course you are not invited either because this is just for Israel not New Testament Christians.
THE THIRD TITHE LAW
What is the Third Year Tithe Law?
The Third Year Tithe to be eaten by the Levites, fatherless, aliens, and widows.
Deut. 14:28, 29 (NIV) 28At the end of every three years, bring all the tithes of that year?s produce and store it in your towns, 29so that the Levites (who have no allotment or inheritance of their own) and the aliens, the fatherless and the widows who live in your towns may come and eat and be satisfied, and so that the LORD your God may bless you in all the work of your hands.
NOTE: Why does your church not follow the Third Year Tithe law and hold a feast for these people from the produce brought in and stored in the towns. Your church leaders will not even feed the fatherless and widows from your tithe, but pocket the money.
EGW has a real problem with this tithe law. She rejects God's law by not wanting to feed the poor from tithe. EGW: "The tithe is set apart for a special use. It is not to be regarded as a poor fund." Counsels on Stewardship, P.103 R & H Supplement, Dec. 1, 1896.
Where is the Tithe to Be Stored?
Tithe is to be stored in a special "storeroom"
Neh. 10:37 through Neh. 10:39 (NIV) 37?Moreover, we will bring to the storerooms of the house of our God, to the priests, the first of our ground meal, of our grain offerings, of the fruit of all our trees and of our new wine and oil. And we will bring a tithe of our crops to the Levites, for it is the Levites who collect the tithes in all the towns where we work. 38A priest descended from Aaron is to accompany the Levites when they receive the tithes, and the Levites are to bring a tenth of the tithes up to the house of our God, to the storerooms of the treasury. 39The people of Israel, including the Levites, are to bring their contributions of grain, new wine and oil to the storerooms where the articles for the sanctuary are kept and where the ministering priests, the gatekeepers and the singers stay. ?We will not neglect the house of our God.?
NOTE: There were many Levitical cities that were given to the Levites and they stored the tithe in storehouses in these cities. Numbers 35:1-5, Joshua 21. Israel were to give to the Levites the first of their ground meal, fruit, wine, oil, crops and a tithe of your crops. And the Levites are to give a tithe from that and take it to the storeroom where articles of the Sanctuary are kept. If you do not follow this program then you are not tithing!
As you can see the Conference offices is not the Bible Storehouse as there are no ministering priests, gatekeepers and singers living there.
Who is Robbing God?
Malachi Was Addressed to the Levites of Israel, Not the Christian Church
(Mal 3:8, 9 NIV) ""Will a man rob God? Yet you rob me. "But you ask, 'How do we rob you?' "In tithes and offerings." "You are under a curse--the whole nation of you--because you are robbing me."
NOTE: This text is God's rebuke against the Levites Priests that were to give one tenth of all the tithe that came in to them and they in turn were to give one tenth of that to the ministering priests. The Levites were the ones that were robbing God and not obeying the Covenant God made with Israel. It was not all the Israelites that were robbing God. Chapters 2 and 3 make it clear that this was directed against the Levites which caused the whole nation to come under God's curse. When the offending Levites would start paying tithe to the ministering priests, then God would open the storehouse for them to receive blessings.
It is impossible for Christians to rob God in tithe as God has not transferred or given a tithe law to Christians. Christians receive blessings from God for having Christ as their Savior and not by any works of the Old Covenant Laws.
How often have you heard this from the pulpit, that you are robbing God by not returning a faithful tithe? You see it on the "Tithe Envelope." Malachi is the most used text to scam Christians out of their money by church pastors, as they have no New Covenant support for tithing. Church members are led to believe that if you are not returning your tithe, then you are not going to heaven, because you are a thief. The Church leaders that tell you this are liars. They are denying Christ, by using Old Covenant laws. Church Leaders are the ones that are sinning by leading you to believe tithing is binding on Christians. In so doing they are denying Christ's finished work at the cross.
Jesus Canceled Old Covenant Laws
(Col 2:14 NIV) "having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross."
(EPH 2:15 NIV) "by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations.
Note: Paul is talking about the Old Covenant laws that God made with Israel. This would include Civil Laws, Dietary Laws of Clean and Unclean foods, laws dealing with the Sanctuary Service, and tithing laws to support Levites Priests. The point in time that the written code was canceled was when Jesus died on the cross. (Mark 15:38 NIV) "The curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom."
Jesus Did Not Teach Tithing to Christians
(Mat 23:23 NIV) ""Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former."
NOTE: Jesus was not here advocating Christians to tithe. Jesus was reprimanding the Pharisees for not having justice and mercy, while being exact in their tithing. The Pharisees were obeying the Levitical Law of tithing and disobeying the most important part of the Law, justice, mercy and faithfulness. Jesus was here speaking to the Pharisees under the Old Covenant and not to the Christian Church. If Christians insist on following the Levitical Law they would have to find Levite Priests that serve in the Temple Sanctuary to give their tithes of animals, fruit and grain (mint, dill, and cummin). When was the last time you dropped this in the offering plate?
The Gospel Minister are to Be Paid
(1 Cor 9:13 NIV) "Don't you know that those who work in the temple get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in what is offered on the altar?"
(1 Cor 9:14 NIV) "In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel."
NOTE: Some interpret the "the same way" as meaning that the tithe is now to be paid to the gospel minister. Paul is explaining that the laborer is worthy of being paid for his labor. He contrasts the temple worker getting his food from the altar and the gospel preacher making his living from the gospel. Tithe is not mentioned as the means of payment or that the gospel minister is to get his food from the altar.
If this were to be a literal application to the gospel workers to "eat their food from the alter", they would have to eat their food as recorded in Leviticus. I do not think any SDA gospel minister would follow this, and especially if he was a vegetarian.
Eating food from the Alter: Lev. 7:1 through Lev. 7:7 (NIV) 1??These are the regulations for the guilt offering, which is most holy: 2The guilt offering is to be slaughtered in the place where the burnt offering is slaughtered, and its blood is to be sprinkled against the altar on all sides. 3All its fat shall be offered: the fat tail and the fat that covers the inner parts, 4both kidneys with the fat on them near the loins, and the covering of the liver, which is to be removed with the kidneys. 5The priest shall burn them on the altar as an offering made to the LORD by fire. It is a guilt offering. 6Any male in a priest?s family may eat it, but it must be eaten in a holy place; it is most holy.7??The same law applies to both the sin offering and the guilt offering: They belong to the priest who makes atonement with them.
NOTE: God tells us that the gospel ministers and workers deserve to be paid for their labor. Here is God's program.
(1 Tim 5:17 NIV) "The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honor, especially those whose work is preaching and teaching."
(1 Tim 5:18 NIV) "For the Scripture says, "Do not muzzle the ox while it is treading out the grain," and "The worker deserves his wages.""
Note: Paul never told the members of the Christian Church to give their tithes to the gospel ministers instead of the Levites. If this were the case the Jews would have declared war on Paul. Instead the Bible is silent on tithe being diverted to the Christian Church. Also with the Gentile converts coming into the church, would need instructions on how to tithe in the same way Adventist Leaders teach their new converts how to tithe.
Bible Guidelines For Giving
(2 Cor 9:6 NIV) "Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously."
(2 Cor 9:7 NIV) "Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver."
NOTE: The Christian is free to choose the amount of offering to give to God. If it is more than a tithe (ten percent) or less than a tithe it is acceptable to God, if it is from the heart without compulsion. It is also up to the individual to decide on where their offerings go. Also, it is for you to decide if you are giving sparingly or generously, and not to be decided for you by your church leaders. The Bible does not authorize church leaders to tell you how your money is to be spent.
The first tithe law was enacted by God at Sinai and addressed only to Israel. God wrote the Ten Commandment on tables of stone with his finger, and they were placed inside the Ark. Deut. 10:1-3. Moses wrote the Book of the Law, and it was placed beside the Ark of the Covenant. Deut. 31-24:26. This was the Old Covenant Laws that ended at the cross. Jesus is the author of the New Covenant.
Who is to Receive the Tithe?
All Levites are to Receive "all" the Tithe.
Num. 18:21, 23-24 (NIV) 21?I give to the Levites all the tithes in Israel as their inheritance in return for the work they do while serving at the Tent of Meeting. 23It is the Levites who are to do the work at the Tent of Meeting and bear the responsibility for offenses against it. This is a lasting ordinance for the generations to come. They will receive no inheritance among the Israelites. 24Instead, I give to the Levites as their inheritance the tithes that the Israelites present as an offering to the LORD. That is why I said concerning them: ?They will have no inheritance among the Israelites.??
NOTE: All the tithe were to be given only to the Levites as an inheritance. Does anyone see the gospel minister listed as receiving tithe? Tithe is an Old Covenant Law and was never introduced into the New Covenant.
The Priests that Ministered in the Sanctuary are to
Receive One Tenth of that Tithe From the Levites
Num. 18:25 through Num. 18:26 (NIV) 25The LORD said to Moses, 26"Speak to the Levites and say to them: ?When you receive from the Israelites the tithe I give you as your inheritance, you must present a tenth of that tithe as the LORD?S offering.
NOTE: The ministering Levite (priests) are to receive one tenth of the tithe they receive from the Levites.
Neh 10:38 - Neh 10:39 (NIV) 38A priest descended from Aaron is to accompany the Levites when they receive the tithes, and the Levites are to bring a tenth of the tithes up to the house of our God, to the storerooms of the treasury. 39The people of Israel, including the Levites, are to bring their contributions of grain, new wine and oil to the storerooms where the articles for the sanctuary are kept and where the ministering priests, the gatekeepers and the singers stay.
The tithe law never included Gospel Ministers. Are Gospel Ministers Levite priests that minister in the Sanctuary under the Old Covenant? It is amazing how the Church Leaders can twist the Scripture and quote Ellen White's nonsense to line their pockets and scam their members.
Does God Accept Money For Tithe?
No! It is grain, fruit and animals.
Lev. 27:30 through Lev. 27:34 (NIV) 30??A tithe of everything from the land, whether grain from the soil or fruit from the trees, belongs to the LORD; it is holy to the LORD. 31If a man redeems any of his tithe, he must add a fifth of the value to it. 32The entire tithe of the herd and flock?every tenth animal that passes under the shepherd?s rod?will be holy to the LORD. 33He must not pick out the good from the bad or make any substitution. If he does make a substitution, both the animal and its substitute become holy and cannot be redeemed.?? 34These are the commands the LORD gave Moses on Mount Sinai for the Israelites.
NOTE: Currency such as silver, gold, talents and shekels was not allowed to pay tithe. So if you pay tithe with money you are violating the tithe law. Tithe payers are to run every tenth animal under the rod and give that animal as tithe. So when your church Pastor asks you to pay tithe, I guess you will have drop a lot of sheep or cows, fruit or grain, in the offering plate at church to keep the tithe law. Wow!
Those that were not in the agriculture or animal business were not required to tithe. Such as fishermen, carpenters, and the makers of furniture, pottery, clothing, boats, etc.
THE SECOND TITHE LAW
What is the Yearly Tithe?
It is tithe that is eaten and drank by Israel in a party setting to revere God.
Deut. 14:22 through Deut. 14:29 (NIV) 22Be sure to set aside a tenth of all that your fields produce each year. 23Eat the tithe of your grain, new wine and oil, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks in the presence of the LORD your God at the place he will choose as a dwelling for his Name, so that you may learn to revere the LORD your God always. 24But if that place is too distant and you have been blessed by the LORD your God and cannot carry your tithe (because the place where the LORD will choose to put his Name is so far away), 25then exchange your tithe for silver, and take the silver with you and go to the place the LORD your God will choose. 26Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the LORD your God and rejoice. 27And do not neglect the Levites living in your towns, for they have no allotment or inheritance of their own.
NOTE: The annual tithe is to be eaten by the Jews. The annual tithe can be converted to silver if you have a large herd and the town was far away to take the animals. If this is the case you can exchange the animals for silver, and then buy wine or other fermented drinks that can be eaten by you, your household, and the Levites at a place determined by the LORD.
Has your church ever allow you to use your tithe to have a party and drink fermented drink? You might bring this to your Pastor's attention, that you would like to party with your tithe as commanded in the Bible! And don't forget the Levites living in your town. Your Pastors are not invited, as they are not part of this law! Of course you are not invited either because this is just for Israel not New Testament Christians.
THE THIRD TITHE LAW
What is the Third Year Tithe Law?
The Third Year Tithe to be eaten by the Levites, fatherless, aliens, and widows.
Deut. 14:28, 29 (NIV) 28At the end of every three years, bring all the tithes of that year?s produce and store it in your towns, 29so that the Levites (who have no allotment or inheritance of their own) and the aliens, the fatherless and the widows who live in your towns may come and eat and be satisfied, and so that the LORD your God may bless you in all the work of your hands.
NOTE: Why does your church not follow the Third Year Tithe law and hold a feast for these people from the produce brought in and stored in the towns. Your church leaders will not even feed the fatherless and widows from your tithe, but pocket the money.
EGW has a real problem with this tithe law. She rejects God's law by not wanting to feed the poor from tithe. EGW: "The tithe is set apart for a special use. It is not to be regarded as a poor fund." Counsels on Stewardship, P.103 R & H Supplement, Dec. 1, 1896.
Where is the Tithe to Be Stored?
Tithe is to be stored in a special "storeroom"
Neh. 10:37 through Neh. 10:39 (NIV) 37?Moreover, we will bring to the storerooms of the house of our God, to the priests, the first of our ground meal, of our grain offerings, of the fruit of all our trees and of our new wine and oil. And we will bring a tithe of our crops to the Levites, for it is the Levites who collect the tithes in all the towns where we work. 38A priest descended from Aaron is to accompany the Levites when they receive the tithes, and the Levites are to bring a tenth of the tithes up to the house of our God, to the storerooms of the treasury. 39The people of Israel, including the Levites, are to bring their contributions of grain, new wine and oil to the storerooms where the articles for the sanctuary are kept and where the ministering priests, the gatekeepers and the singers stay. ?We will not neglect the house of our God.?
NOTE: There were many Levitical cities that were given to the Levites and they stored the tithe in storehouses in these cities. Numbers 35:1-5, Joshua 21. Israel were to give to the Levites the first of their ground meal, fruit, wine, oil, crops and a tithe of your crops. And the Levites are to give a tithe from that and take it to the storeroom where articles of the Sanctuary are kept. If you do not follow this program then you are not tithing!
As you can see the Conference offices is not the Bible Storehouse as there are no ministering priests, gatekeepers and singers living there.
Who is Robbing God?
Malachi Was Addressed to the Levites of Israel, Not the Christian Church
(Mal 3:8, 9 NIV) ""Will a man rob God? Yet you rob me. "But you ask, 'How do we rob you?' "In tithes and offerings." "You are under a curse--the whole nation of you--because you are robbing me."
NOTE: This text is God's rebuke against the Levites Priests that were to give one tenth of all the tithe that came in to them and they in turn were to give one tenth of that to the ministering priests. The Levites were the ones that were robbing God and not obeying the Covenant God made with Israel. It was not all the Israelites that were robbing God. Chapters 2 and 3 make it clear that this was directed against the Levites which caused the whole nation to come under God's curse. When the offending Levites would start paying tithe to the ministering priests, then God would open the storehouse for them to receive blessings.
It is impossible for Christians to rob God in tithe as God has not transferred or given a tithe law to Christians. Christians receive blessings from God for having Christ as their Savior and not by any works of the Old Covenant Laws.
How often have you heard this from the pulpit, that you are robbing God by not returning a faithful tithe? You see it on the "Tithe Envelope." Malachi is the most used text to scam Christians out of their money by church pastors, as they have no New Covenant support for tithing. Church members are led to believe that if you are not returning your tithe, then you are not going to heaven, because you are a thief. The Church leaders that tell you this are liars. They are denying Christ, by using Old Covenant laws. Church Leaders are the ones that are sinning by leading you to believe tithing is binding on Christians. In so doing they are denying Christ's finished work at the cross.
Jesus Canceled Old Covenant Laws
(Col 2:14 NIV) "having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross."
(EPH 2:15 NIV) "by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations.
Note: Paul is talking about the Old Covenant laws that God made with Israel. This would include Civil Laws, Dietary Laws of Clean and Unclean foods, laws dealing with the Sanctuary Service, and tithing laws to support Levites Priests. The point in time that the written code was canceled was when Jesus died on the cross. (Mark 15:38 NIV) "The curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom."
Jesus Did Not Teach Tithing to Christians
(Mat 23:23 NIV) ""Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former."
NOTE: Jesus was not here advocating Christians to tithe. Jesus was reprimanding the Pharisees for not having justice and mercy, while being exact in their tithing. The Pharisees were obeying the Levitical Law of tithing and disobeying the most important part of the Law, justice, mercy and faithfulness. Jesus was here speaking to the Pharisees under the Old Covenant and not to the Christian Church. If Christians insist on following the Levitical Law they would have to find Levite Priests that serve in the Temple Sanctuary to give their tithes of animals, fruit and grain (mint, dill, and cummin). When was the last time you dropped this in the offering plate?
The Gospel Minister are to Be Paid
(1 Cor 9:13 NIV) "Don't you know that those who work in the temple get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in what is offered on the altar?"
(1 Cor 9:14 NIV) "In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel."
NOTE: Some interpret the "the same way" as meaning that the tithe is now to be paid to the gospel minister. Paul is explaining that the laborer is worthy of being paid for his labor. He contrasts the temple worker getting his food from the altar and the gospel preacher making his living from the gospel. Tithe is not mentioned as the means of payment or that the gospel minister is to get his food from the altar.
If this were to be a literal application to the gospel workers to "eat their food from the alter", they would have to eat their food as recorded in Leviticus. I do not think any SDA gospel minister would follow this, and especially if he was a vegetarian.
Eating food from the Alter: Lev. 7:1 through Lev. 7:7 (NIV) 1??These are the regulations for the guilt offering, which is most holy: 2The guilt offering is to be slaughtered in the place where the burnt offering is slaughtered, and its blood is to be sprinkled against the altar on all sides. 3All its fat shall be offered: the fat tail and the fat that covers the inner parts, 4both kidneys with the fat on them near the loins, and the covering of the liver, which is to be removed with the kidneys. 5The priest shall burn them on the altar as an offering made to the LORD by fire. It is a guilt offering. 6Any male in a priest?s family may eat it, but it must be eaten in a holy place; it is most holy.7??The same law applies to both the sin offering and the guilt offering: They belong to the priest who makes atonement with them.
NOTE: God tells us that the gospel ministers and workers deserve to be paid for their labor. Here is God's program.
(1 Tim 5:17 NIV) "The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honor, especially those whose work is preaching and teaching."
(1 Tim 5:18 NIV) "For the Scripture says, "Do not muzzle the ox while it is treading out the grain," and "The worker deserves his wages.""
Note: Paul never told the members of the Christian Church to give their tithes to the gospel ministers instead of the Levites. If this were the case the Jews would have declared war on Paul. Instead the Bible is silent on tithe being diverted to the Christian Church. Also with the Gentile converts coming into the church, would need instructions on how to tithe in the same way Adventist Leaders teach their new converts how to tithe.
Bible Guidelines For Giving
(2 Cor 9:6 NIV) "Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously."
(2 Cor 9:7 NIV) "Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver."
NOTE: The Christian is free to choose the amount of offering to give to God. If it is more than a tithe (ten percent) or less than a tithe it is acceptable to God, if it is from the heart without compulsion. It is also up to the individual to decide on where their offerings go. Also, it is for you to decide if you are giving sparingly or generously, and not to be decided for you by your church leaders. The Bible does not authorize church leaders to tell you how your money is to be spent.
Dr H..
Active Member
Flawed, please explain.
The first tithe law was enacted by God at Sinai and addressed only to Israel.
First of all before you cut and paste infromation compiled by others, you need to go back and read the bible and the events that took place on Mt. Sinai.
Your infrmation was taken from an article by Ray Smith, titled "Tithing in the Church first appears centuries after completion of the Bible."
http://www.bible-truths.com/tithing.html
To me the subject of tithing or giving is trivia and petty. Why, because we as a people [blacks] we call ourselves Christians and we argue over and over again about how much to give to God not to the Preacher, Elders, Staff or Deacons. [We ] argue over things where there should not be an argument. This in one of the main reasons we as a people are still in the same condition our fathers, grandfathers and great-grandfather were locked into. In fact they were more spiritual and better off, they did not argue the preacher or over how much to give. What is giving to God $10.00 or $11.00 out of $100.00, people are acting as if God is robbing them. One of the main reasons blacks are in the condition they are in, is due to the fact they are selfish and argue over petty issues. We want to blame the white man, no, it's the attitude about issues, that we should be spiritually mature in. We say that we are "spiritual" people, I beg to differ. If that was the case, why do blacks argue of how much money to give to God or what time service should start these are issues we should have gotten over a long time ago.
The above comment is one of the reasons I quoted Hebrews 5:12 in one of my previous comments. [Some] are arguing over $10.00 ?God Forbid? instead of debating on how much to give or the use of the word tithing, some should be more concerned about their salvation and teaching the word of God. I have always found it interesting, how some with Professional Degrees i.e., Doctors, Attorneys think they know more about God?s word than the man God cut out for His purpose.
Whenever, I read how people debate [without knowledge of the word] they remind me of what Jeremiah told God?s people ? He said ? The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved.? Jer. 8:20
Consider, whatever your profession is [God bless you with that particular talent] if God took it from you, what would your financial status be? Can anyone put a price on Calvary, surely it?s worth figuratively speaking $10.00 out of $100.00 God blessed you with.
The first tithe law was enacted by God at Sinai and addressed only to Israel.
First of all before you cut and paste infromation compiled by others, you need to go back and read the bible and the events that took place on Mt. Sinai.
Your infrmation was taken from an article by Ray Smith, titled "Tithing in the Church first appears centuries after completion of the Bible."
http://www.bible-truths.com/tithing.html
To me the subject of tithing or giving is trivia and petty. Why, because we as a people [blacks] we call ourselves Christians and we argue over and over again about how much to give to God not to the Preacher, Elders, Staff or Deacons. [We ] argue over things where there should not be an argument. This in one of the main reasons we as a people are still in the same condition our fathers, grandfathers and great-grandfather were locked into. In fact they were more spiritual and better off, they did not argue the preacher or over how much to give. What is giving to God $10.00 or $11.00 out of $100.00, people are acting as if God is robbing them. One of the main reasons blacks are in the condition they are in, is due to the fact they are selfish and argue over petty issues. We want to blame the white man, no, it's the attitude about issues, that we should be spiritually mature in. We say that we are "spiritual" people, I beg to differ. If that was the case, why do blacks argue of how much money to give to God or what time service should start these are issues we should have gotten over a long time ago.
The above comment is one of the reasons I quoted Hebrews 5:12 in one of my previous comments. [Some] are arguing over $10.00 ?God Forbid? instead of debating on how much to give or the use of the word tithing, some should be more concerned about their salvation and teaching the word of God. I have always found it interesting, how some with Professional Degrees i.e., Doctors, Attorneys think they know more about God?s word than the man God cut out for His purpose.
Whenever, I read how people debate [without knowledge of the word] they remind me of what Jeremiah told God?s people ? He said ? The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved.? Jer. 8:20
Consider, whatever your profession is [God bless you with that particular talent] if God took it from you, what would your financial status be? Can anyone put a price on Calvary, surely it?s worth figuratively speaking $10.00 out of $100.00 God blessed you with.
hassan
La ilaj? ila Al
SLT said:
it does not appear to be that way because, if it did work for YOU, then YOU would not be so concerned with what other folks think (as evidenced by the multiplicity of your posts)
if YOU see using the brain that God gave YOU as being disobedient then that is on YOU
...a hit puppy will ...
*i still love you SLT - you certainly have spunk
Dr H..
Active Member
Interesting how people question God about every issue, but will not question their local, state or federal government for "automatically" taking a portion of their salary and it's taken from the gross. They do not question their insurance provider about the cost of insurance [home, life, health] - in fact they do not question the lender on the interest rate for a loan, but cry, fuss and argue over 1%, 2% or 10% of their salary going to God.
Just do not make sense -
Just do not make sense -
hassan
La ilaj? ila Al
Dr H.. said:
actually, people DO quesiton their respective governments on taxation issues and history has done a good job of documenting this (eg. "no taxation without representation", Shay's Rebellion, Thoreau and the Mexican-American War, the "extra charge" on your telephone bill to fund war via an antiquated federal statue, et cetera).
Of course, the big difference to refute your line of "reasoning" is that a government (local, state, federal) needs taxation as means to generate revenue to provide services. God does not need to generate revenue to provide services because He is GOD and He was providing services long before man ever invented money.
(i cant wait to have a discussion on the origins of commerce via bartering and the creation of money)
many times in the past when we have attempted to have an intelligent discussion about the scam called "tithing" folks have erroneously cited the "render unto Caesar what is Caesar's" quote from Scripture to try to prove their point.
when taken in its ACTUAL CONTEXT, Jesus himself is saying that - in response to a fair question (gee, the disciples can question but we cant???) about whether or not a pious God-fearing should pay taxes to a immoral pagan governmental entity - folks pay the money to Caesar because he needs it and "pay" God with something more substantial and eternal which is your love for Him as evidenced by your love for your fellow man/woman.
*as i hear the fragile walls of deceit crumbling, i hear the unpious curses of the exposed and the shutting of the walls to one's cranial domain as folks try to "protect" themselves from the truth
silly rabbits - Jesus himself said that ...
... the truth shall set you free
hassan
La ilaj? ila Al
This is so interesting because, when many folks here want to make a point about what great and well-informed Christians they are, they are real quick to bring up something from the OT, like this:
but then when someone posts something from the OT that shines a light on the fact they are not as well-informed a Christian as they are trying to convince others (and themselves as well perhaps) of such as the case with this thread, then one hears the suddenly compelling argument that the OT is obsolete and one need only reflect on what is contained in the NT
yet, the NT says NOTHING to support the scam of tithing; if anything, it strips away all of its credibility as a spiritual practice thus exposing it as a temporal con game.
docmump said:
but then when someone posts something from the OT that shines a light on the fact they are not as well-informed a Christian as they are trying to convince others (and themselves as well perhaps) of such as the case with this thread, then one hears the suddenly compelling argument that the OT is obsolete and one need only reflect on what is contained in the NT
yet, the NT says NOTHING to support the scam of tithing; if anything, it strips away all of its credibility as a spiritual practice thus exposing it as a temporal con game.
hassan
La ilaj? ila Al
Dr H.. said:
yeah, good luck telling that to Pastor when his car note on his SL is due and he still has to come up with that deposit for babygirl's cotillion and the First Lady needs a new hat because the Deacon's wife's new hat covers up more dyed grays than hers and ....
:lmao:
- Status