Why not D2 for HBCU'S?


ohslax61

ohslax61

Member
Someone asked me why I think HBCU's should go down to D2, I say besides APR Sanctions, Bans for miscellaneous reasons, a lack of institutional control, lack of facilities other than a stadium, the fact that the eligibility requirements don't match the mission of HBCU'S, the big one is Money.
According to the NCAA the avg. Net expenses to operate a athletic program in FCS is around $10 million, D2 is around $4 million (see attachment), none of our programs turn profits but yet we are still fighting to hold on to D1 status...why? Why keep being embarrassed, an after thought, a means to be exploited by promoters, companies, venues, etc. At such a heavy cost to our schools?

I want to hear a compelling reason of why besides pride and tradition...
 

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You do realize a lot of FCS programs, including predominately white programs don't turn a profit when it comes to athletic programs. Most schools, including FBS programs see their athletic program as a recruiting tool for the school in general. In order words, some schools see the expense of keeping costly athletic programs that don't turn a profit as a means of making a profit in other areas, such as student enrollment.
 
Dead horse or not...logic is at play here. Ignorance is not bliss, HBCU Football is not sustainable in its current state. To compare them to PWI is ridiculous. HBCU'S don't have the funding, state/federal/alumni support, endowment's or reserves to absorb these losses like PWI's do. So where is this data to support any benefit to HBCU's staying in FCS vice going to D2?
 
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JAG89 said:
You do realize a lot of FCS programs, including predominately white programs don't turn a profit when it comes to athletic programs. Most schools, including FBS programs see their athletic program as a recruiting tool for the school in general. In order words, some schools see the expense of keeping costly athletic programs that don't turn a profit as a means of making a profit in other areas, such as student enrollment.
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There is a benefit of having sports for sure, and football as well, so why not do it in a fiscally responsible way, especially since HBCU football doesn't get the major air time that would (in my opinion) yield returns large enough to justify staying FCS? FBS I could see, but ESPN3 games and replays on ESPN are not going to recruit at a high rate.
 
ohslax61 said:
There is a benefit of having sports for sure, and football as well, so why not do it in a fiscally responsible way, especially since HBCU football doesn't get the major air time that would (in my opinion) yield returns large enough to justify staying FCS? FBS I could see, but ESPN3 games and replays on ESPN are not going to recruit at a high rate.
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You say this at a time when two HBCUs are about to play in a game that will be broadcast on network TV.
 
Kendrick said:
You say this at a time when two HBCUs are about to play in a game that will be broadcast on network TV.
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Yes true but...just two, same as D2, D3, and NAIA...all the championship games are. This is essentially the black college football championship. Plus TV is a whole other subject. I think there is a big opportunity for HBCU Football to have a 4 team playoff and championship game on a HBCU Sports Network...you can do that and more when all four leagues are D2... opportunities are there and for much less cost by dropping down.
 
ohslax61 said:
Yes true but...just two, same as D2, D3, and NAIA...all the championship games are. This is essentially the black college football championship. Plus TV is a whole other subject. I think there is a big opportunity for HBCU Football to have a 4 team playoff and championship game on a HBCU Sports Network...you can do that and more when all four leagues are D2... opportunities are there and for much less cost by dropping down.
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Grambling has 3 national televised games in a row. Live...what D2, FCS, G5 team has had that?
 
ohslax61 said:
Yes true but...just two, same as D2, D3, and NAIA...all the championship games are. This is essentially the black college football championship. Plus TV is a whole other subject. I think there is a big opportunity for HBCU Football to have a 4 team playoff and championship game on a HBCU Sports Network...you can do that and more when all four leagues are D2... opportunities are there and for much less cost by dropping down.
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Wut
 
ohslax61 said:
There is a benefit of having sports for sure, and football as well, so why not do it in a fiscally responsible way, especially since HBCU football doesn't get the major air time that would (in my opinion) yield returns large enough to justify staying FCS? FBS I could see, but ESPN3 games and replays on ESPN are not going to recruit at a high rate.
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So going D2 will make HBCUs more fiscally responsible??? Show me the data that says this, because the way I see it, HBCUs on the D2 level doesn't appear to be anymore fiscally responsible than HBCUs on the FCS level when it comes to athletics. I'm sure there are plenty data out there to prove your point or this becomes just another attack on HBCUs on the FCS level, which I have experienced several times coming from individuals who represent HBCUs on the D2 level. But I'm sure you would prove to us that D2 schools like Winston-Salem State University, Tuskegee, and others are more fiscally responsible by staying at the D2 level. If being fiscally responsible is your major concern, maybe ALL HBCUs should do what Paul Quinn in Texas did by dropping football and replacing their football fields with gardens.

IMO, this is just another sad attempt by someone from a D2 HBCU to delegitimize HBCUs on the FCS level.
 
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JAG89 said:
So going D2 will make HBCUs more fiscally responsible??? Show me the data that says this, because the way I see it, HBCUs on the D2 level doesn't appear to be anymore fiscally responsible than HBCUs on the FCS level when it comes to athletics. I'm sure there are plenty data out there to prove your point or this becomes just another attack on HBCUs on the FCS level, which I have experienced several times coming from individuals who represent HBCUs on the D2 level. But I'm sure you would prove to us that D2 schools like Winston-Salem State University, Tuskegee, and others are more fiscally responsible by staying at the D2 level. If being fiscally responsible is your major concern, maybe ALL HBCUs should do what Paul Quinn in Texas did by dropping football and replacing their football fields with gardens.

IMO, this is just another sad attempt by someone from a D2 HBCU to delegitimize HBCUs on the FCS level.
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A $5 million reduction in operational cost is more fiscally responsible. Sports is a business, your not in it to loss as much $ as possible and very few programs make any $ at all, so you lower your cost in a reasonable way. In this case dropping down. Now if you want to see it as an attack, I can't change that...that's your view... however, you can't reasonably tell me that chopping $5 mil of operational cost is a bad thing. That's why companies go over seas with jobs.
 
ohslax61 said:
A $5 million reduction in operational cost is more fiscally responsible. Sports is a business, your not in it to loss as much $ as possible and very few programs make any $ at all, so you lower your cost in a reasonable way. In this case dropping down. Now if you want to see it as an attack, I can't change that...that's your view... however, you can't reasonably tell me that chopping $5 mil of operational cost is a bad thing. That's why companies go over seas with jobs.
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SMH. Please examine the details of the operating costs and revenues and post what you find here.
 

stop-beating-this-dead-horse-2.png
 
OK, I will bite ...

Has D2 success helped boost student applications to the school like Alcorn and NC A&T did for just playing in last years Celebration Bowl?

Watch NCCU and Grambling get a bump in interest just simply by playing on ABC.

Like @JAG89 and others have said, you can't come up in here with an argument without data to prove your argument.

Just because you choose to operate a smaller store doesn't mean that smaller store operates more efficiently than the bigger store.
 
Journalist said:
OK, I will bite ...

Has D2 success helped boost student applications to the school like Alcorn and NC A&T did for just playing in last years Celebration Bowl?

Watch NCCU and Grambling get a bump in interest just simply by playing on ABC.

Like @JAG89 and others have said, you can't come up in here with an argument without data to prove your argument.

Just because you choose to operate a smaller store doesn't mean that smaller store operates more efficiently than the bigger store.
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+1
 
Without any data, one can only assume that this thread was started by some bitter person from a D2 HBCU program, which has become somewhat of a regular occurrence these days.
 
JAG89 said:
Without any data, one can only assume that this thread was started by some bitter person from a D2 HBCU program, which has become somewhat of a regular occurrence these days.
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Extremely bitter....

What bothers me is that people just throw stuff out there with no contingency or thought about how this would affect enrollment, what to do concerning other sports, how will this affect school like Grambling that have a marketable brand, how will this affect legislators in funding schools, etc......
 
You keep talking about data...data was attached in my initial post supporting the net cost savings of the proposed move.

Playing Infront of a sold out crowd is not true...none of those games sell out against HBCU's sorry...if you have data to support differently please provide.

Lastly contrary to your beliefs, HBCU's have seen enrollment increases mainly due to a perceived rise in racial tensions. Football doesn't raise enrollment too much at HBCU due to the majority of students being Female (61% and rising according to USDOE). Facts matter.

http://www.npr.org/2016/09/17/494340844/whats-causing-the-increased-enrollment-at-hbcus

http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=667

Again...I understand...this may cause butt hurt, and it is beating a dead horse, but I leave you all with this... HBCU'S all over are threatening to close due to a lack of fiscal support amongst many things, ask yourself, is the pride of playing some $ games on TV worth losing x2 the money due to operational cost? Fin.

http://www.businessinsider.com/hbcus-may-be-more-in-danger-of-closing-than-other-schools-2015-3
 
ohslax61 said:
You keep talking about data...data was attached in my initial post supporting the net cost savings of the proposed move.

Playing Infront of a sold out crowd is not true...none of those games sell out against HBCU's sorry...if you have data to support differently please provide.

Lastly contrary to your beliefs, HBCU's have seen enrollment increases mainly due to a perceived rise in racial tensions. Football doesn't raise enrollment too much at HBCU due to the majority of students being Female (61% and rising according to USDOE). Facts matter.

http://www.npr.org/2016/09/17/494340844/whats-causing-the-increased-enrollment-at-hbcus

http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=667

Again...I understand...this may cause butt hurt, and it is beating a dead horse, but I leave you all with this... HBCU'S all over are threatening to close due to a lack of fiscal support amongst many things, ask yourself, is the pride of playing some $ games on TV worth losing x2 the money due to operational cost? Fin.

http://www.businessinsider.com/hbcus-may-be-more-in-danger-of-closing-than-other-schools-2015-3
Click to expand...

None of what you posted are actually comparisons of HBCUs on the FCS level to HBCUs on the D2 level. Therefore,you still have yet to prove that one is more fiscally responsible than the other. I think you need to do a little more work in the area of comparison analysis or you will end up becoming just another sexual intellectual who like starting threads without any real substance.
 
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