Yahoo: HBCUs Look to Close Gap at FCS Level


Tigerpride said:
The problem here is that a lot of you don't know how to look at things like an administrator. You don't know how to properly look at data and how to compare and contrast. I can't tell you how many times I have seen people compare apples and oranges on here. Most of the things that happen in our conferences can either be the result of laziness on behalf of our admins or the data that they have to go by. Of course, data also needs common sense added to it.

No one is trying to figure out how we can get better and who do we want to get better than and by how much. Do we want to compete with the Southland, the SoCon or the Sunbelt? No proper parameters have been set. I will say that the MEAC, being a playoff conference, does seem to have a better set of guidelines for their teams to follow (ie they can only schedule one D2 without being fined) but they have still not figured out how to get better ... and losing by 4 TDs one year and losing by 1 TD the next is not getting better (as implied in the article). What happens to that team in year 3 and 4?

What is meant by "better"? There are some 4-7 teams in the SoCon that are better than a 7-4 team in the SWAC. TNState could proably be 6-5 or 7-4 in the MEAC but they settle for 3-8 in the OVC every year. While at the same time, you have a team in the Subelt that is 3-8 but could easily be 9-2 in the OVC. So obviously records don't make you better. What would we prefer? More talent on a team that goes 3-8 or less talent on a team that goes 8-3? We need to sit down and figure out how to measure our improvement and then figure out a way to get there.

Most of you recall how Hughes was fired after going 9-3, 7-4, 7-4, and 7-4. That was becasue back then, we had better guidelines. There nothing good about beating 9 sorry teams and losing to the only two good teams you face. There is no glory in beating 7 teams with losing records and then losing to 4 teams with winning records. 7-4 is DATA....being fired for going 7-4 is analyzing the data.
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Translation: Curl up in a fetal position and whine about how we will never beat those guys instead of lining up and try to compete, isolate ourselves while thumping our chest about how big and bad we are for only having to be good enough to beat up on each other. :lol:
 



jstate83 said:
You have seen threads here on this subject. That ain't gonna happen because the majority are happy as a clam in ISOLATION LAND. :tup:
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I don't think that the case. We are accepting reality that we have two choices:

1.) The other 7 Presidents can vote to make GSU, SU and AlaState move their games back a week (if they can even do that)
or
2.) We can make the best of the situation we have.

How do we do that. We do that by doing our best to get a team in the playoffs if they miss the SCG and that is by making that a goal for the other 7. Most of the other 7 don't even think about that when scheduling. Most of the other 7 Presidents didn't think about that when they voted to have a 9 game mandate. And if a team does not make the playoffs, give them somewhere else to go to shine. Nothing is wrong with being the best HBCU. If you can't be the 1-AA team then being the best HBCU is better than being the best nothing. This year, JSU would have been 9-2 (without the ban) and still sitting in Jackson waiting on next year but without the ban, we could have got a playoff invite or a HB berth. Heck, we may have even been able to win the Sheridan poll by going 10-2. I know that means nothing to you but according to our players, that would have meant a lot to them. We also have to realize that that many of "us" don't care about the playoffs. I have a friend from Hampton who knows nothing bout them going to the playoffs but he recalls when they played SU in Atlanta for the HB. We have to lean to our strengths and do what works for us.
 
jstate83 said:
Try that crap in 2011.................This is not the 1980's.
There are too many FCS teams for the NCAA to pick from. 1ST PLACE TEAMS FROM OTHER CONFERENCES. That is just another roadblock that don't even need to exist. What 2nd, 3rd, or 4th place teams are gonna play in those post season bowls. The MEAC don't want no parts of it.
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The MEAC does not want to forgo their playoff bid. The MEAC did not forgo their playoff bid during the Heritage Bowl years. They would be all for it if they could still send their champ to the playoffs.
 
jstate83 said:
Try that crap in 2011.................This is not the 1980's.
There are too many FCS teams for the NCAA to pick from. 1ST PLACE TEAMS FROM OTHER CONFERENCES. That is just another roadblock that don't even need to exist. What 2nd, 3rd, or 4th place teams are gonna play in those post season bowls. The MEAC don't want no parts of it.
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Since when did the NCAA pick who would go to the HB.. ya'll just making up stuff now. The Legacy Bowl would be for a MEAC and SWAC rep. :lol:
 
Tigerpride said:
The MEAC does not want to forgo their playoff bid. The MEAC did not forgo their playoff bid during the Heritage Bowl years. They would be all for it if they could still send their champ to the playoffs.
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So you would rather the SWAC play a bowl game that would include 2nd and 3rd place teams instead of making the conference as a whole, playoff eligible with a auto bid. As long as we have the SCG and the conference champs being decided after the 3rd weekend of November, the SWAC ain't getting a at large bid.

The NCAA is gonna be sure of who is in or out the playoffs a full week in advance. The SWAC can't provide that certainty under our current format and regular season schedules.
 
Tigerpride said:
The only thing I get from this article is the things I, THE Logical One, have been preaching for years.

1.) Going to the playoffs and competing in the playoffs are two different things.2.) Playing 1-A teams (esp from BCS conferences) is a waste of time.
3.) I don't understand why playing a good D2 is bad but I totally agree with our OOC games should be almost completely vs other 1-AA teams.
4.) In the SWAC, we need a 7 game format with scheduling restrictions (ie no NAIA and sorry D2 clubs, no conference teams as OOC opponents, etc...)
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In TP I trust .... on these two statements anyway.
 
How much better has the MEAC's formula made them though? Sooner or later yall will realize it's not going to the playoffs or not that determines your teams level of play...
 
Tigerpride said:
Since when did the NCAA pick who would go to the HB.. ya'll just making up stuff now. The Legacy Bowl would be for a MEAC and SWAC rep. :lol:
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Dude.............. What are you talking about. :noidea:
I was asking WHO WOULD YOU PICK FROM THE 2ND, 3RD, AND 4TH PLACE TEAMS to play in a post season bowl that would draw a crowd worth having?

And since the MEAC don't want no parts of this, WHAT CONFERENCE WOULD THE SWAC OPPONENT COME FROM?
 
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unknown1 said:
How much better has the MEAC's formula made them though? Sooner or later yall will realize it's not going to the playoffs or not that determines your teams level of play...
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How much WORSE has the SWAC formula made us.
Please tell me how much IMPROVEMENT our teams have made since we basically said screw the playoffs and realized we only have to be good enough to beat other SWAC schools to reach our one and only yearly goal?
 
unknown1 said:
How much better has the MEAC's formula made them though? Sooner or later yall will realize it's not going to the playoffs or not that determines your teams level of play...
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TRUTH!

I have asked them repeatedly how better has having the opportunity to go to the playoffs made your individual programs.

(a) The other FCS conferences STILL don't want to schedule them on the whole.
(b) They are still being disrespected when it comes time for selection.
(c) When they get there, they (team, fans, etc.) STILL don't show up.

Consider this year .... NSU had a game in their damn backdoor and didn't bid on it .... why?

The same reason why despite what 83 says, the SWAC presidents aren't willing to risk what Marty Miller wasn't willing to risk. "If I put up 50,000 and don't get the bid OR can't get enough of my OWN DAMN FANS to come out, all I have done is cost my school MORE MONEY. I don't necessarily disagree with 83 either. We need to play better teams, period. My contention is that instead of going to Memphis or Atlanta or St. Louis, we start taking that trip to Lake Charles, Boone, or or Huntsville. As a conference, adopt the old Southern Miss credo of "Anytime, Anywhere". One game a year.

I have always said if the MEAC (and in this case the SWAC) was SERIOUS about the playoffs, the first thing that has to happen is removal of d2 schools. The second is removal of games against the SWAC/MEAC/Tenn State. Drop back to eight games in conference, have your FBS game, maybe one classic, and one "FCS Challenge" game. We may go 0-10 in the first year, but you keep on doing it, if for nothing else to learn what those schools are doing on the field and off .... IF YOU REALLY WANT TO COMPETE.

The MEAC ain't competing .... they are just trying to "fit in".
 
jstate83 said:
So you would rather the SWAC play a bowl game that would include 2nd and 3rd place teams instead of making the conference as a whole, playoff eligible with a auto bid. As long as we have the SCG and the conference champs being decided after the 3rd weekend of November, the SWAC ain't getting a at large bid.

The NCAA is gonna be sure of who is in or out the playoffs a full week in advance. The SWAC can't provide that certainty under our current format and regular season schedules.
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I hope you know the FCS love the fact that they have to give one less Playoff spot to an inferior HBCU Team? They don't want to invite the MEAC Champ, but have to do. So lets create the Legacy Bowl for the third place teams in the MEAC & SWAC. At the same time, lets get serious about improving the quality of our Athletic Programs and let's kick their butts! In order to do that, we need to hire people with vision that can raise money and get the alum to support the academics and athletics of the school.
 
jstate83 said:
How much WORSE has the SWAC formula made us.
Please tell me how much IMPROVEMENT our teams have made since we basically said screw the playoffs and realized we only have to be good enough to beat other SWAC schools to reach our one and only yearly goal?
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Only problem with this thought is that just like the MEAC can't point to the playoffs SOLELY as a reason of improvement, we can not SOLELY point to the lack of the playoffs as a reason SWAC play may be where it should be.

(a) Administration
(b) APR
(c) Misuse of Money
(d) Misuse of Power
(e) Alums
(f) Stability
(g) Economy/ Taxes
 
Tigerpride said:
Says who? The thing about black folk is that we don't count our blessings. You all want to down the SCG but no playoff game has drew that yet and I highly doubt that the 1-AA playoff national champtionship will either....well maybe it will since Sam Houston is playing in it and the game is in Texas, but otherwise, good luck. Some of you all talk outta both sides of your neck.

Also, it's not about the NCAA letting us bring the Bowl game back. It's up to us to just let them know we want it back.
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Says the NCAA. After we tell the NCAA we want our bowl game back, they will look at us and just start laughing and still say no. Again, if some of us want a bowl game, help your school move to the FBS. The thing that is holding the SWAC and HBCU's back are those who want to keep traditions that have long past there usefulness. The SWAC championship game made sense at the beginning of the last decade but what have we gained from it. Is the conference any better? Is the game itself averaging more than 30K? Are schools getting big payouts from the game? Have we gained any major sponsors other than Farmers, Russel, etc.? Are we the SWAC better now then we were 12 years ago? Putting down the FCS playoffs or not wanting to play in it because schools don't make money is an excuse we need to stop telling ourselves to make us sound good.
 
SU Jag 79 said:
TRUTH!

I have asked them repeatedly how better has having the opportunity to go to the playoffs made your individual programs.

(a) The other FCS conferences STILL don't want to schedule them on the whole.
(b) They are still being disrespected when it comes time for selection.
(c) When they get there, they (team, fans, etc.) STILL don't show up.

Consider this year .... NSU had a game in their damn backdoor and didn't bid on it .... why?

The same reason why despite what 83 says, the SWAC presidents aren't willing to risk what Marty Miller wasn't willing to risk. "If I put up 50,000 and don't get the bid OR can't get enough of my OWN DAMN FANS to come out, all I have done is cost my school MORE MONEY. I don't necessarily disagree with 83 either. We need to play better teams, period. My contention is that instead of going to Memphis or Atlanta or St. Louis, we start taking that trip to Lake Charles, Boone, or or Huntsville. As a conference, adopt the old Southern Miss credo of "Anytime, Anywhere". One game a year.

I have always said if the MEAC (and in this case the SWAC) was SERIOUS about the playoffs, the first thing that has to happen is removal of d2 schools. The second is removal of games against the SWAC/MEAC/Tenn State. Drop back to eight games in conference, have your FBS game, maybe one classic, and one "FCS Challenge" game. We may go 0-10 in the first year, but you keep on doing it, if for nothing else to learn what those schools are doing on the field and off .... IF YOU REALLY WANT TO COMPETE.

The MEAC ain't competing .... they are just trying to "fit in".[/B]
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:nod::nod::nod::tup:
 



Not to mention the FCS and NCAA has a trick pimp relationship when it comes to those playoffs. If you want to be a trick, please do it on your own time and keep the sane folks out of it. :lol: :emlaugh:
 
Jstate83,

BH has got your back. Some folks are so blind to the fact that it is indeed sad that I, as an HBCU graduate, didn't even realize when our conference Championship Game took place because I, among most outside of the DIE-HARD Grambling and Alabama A&M Fans, were busy talking about the BCS.

As Jstate83 and I have stated NUMEROUS TIMES ON TSPN SPORTS......THE SWAC IS NOT THE SEC. If you think we can STILL make just on name alone in 2012, I wash my hands...:smh:. If you STILL think our name is highly prestiged OUTSIDE of our conference, you are just fooling yourself. But, Jsstate83 and I threw in our towels a long time ago in trying to get the SWAC to ADAPT to the new environment of sports.

ADAPT ADAPT ADAPT ADAPT ADAPT ADAPT ADAPT ADAPT ADAPT ADAPT ADAPT ADAPT ADAPT
 
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jstate83 said:
Translation: Curl up in a fetal position and whine about how we will never beat those guys instead of lining up and try to compete, isolate ourselves while thumping our chest about how big and bad we are for only having to be good enough to beat up on each other. :lol:
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Yep and most of the time I agree with TP but I guess we just disagree on this topic.
 
I'm just in this thread clowning around.
I know the mentality of this conference. Nothing is going to change. The only people that want this "heritage bowl" type crap is SWAC followers still stuck in the 1980's and 1990's. Too scared to compete so they blame it on the money. It damm sure is not about the money. If it was about the money, all these so-called SCG's, Classics, and wanna be post season bowls would have us rolling in dough.

They use the argument of getting pimped, AND YES, I DON'T LIKE THE FACT THE NCAA TAKE THAT BIG OF A GATE PERCENTAGE, but we still getting pimped by all these Chicken Foot Bowls and Classics.

You want to push for change in the playoff system, get into the playoffs and raise hell about the money the NCAA is taking at the gate. As long as we are on the outside looking in, we ain't nothing but a bunch of street corner loudmouths that nobody is going to hear or pay attention too. :lol:
 
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Tigerpride said:
I don't think that the case. We are accepting reality that we have two choices:

1.) The other 7 Presidents can vote to make GSU, SU and AlaState move their games back a week (if they can even do that)
or
2.) We can make the best of the situation we have.

How do we do that. We do that by doing our best to get a team in the playoffs if they miss the SCG and that is by making that a goal for the other 7. Most of the other 7 don't even think about that when scheduling. Most of the other 7 Presidents didn't think about that when they voted to have a 9 game mandate. And if a team does not make the playoffs, give them somewhere else to go to shine. Nothing is wrong with being the best HBCU. If you can't be the 1-AA team then being the best HBCU is better than being the best nothing. This year, JSU would have been 9-2 (without the ban) and still sitting in Jackson waiting on next year but without the ban, we could have got a playoff invite or a HB berth. Heck, we may have even been able to win the Sheridan poll by going 10-2. I know that means nothing to you but according to our players, that would have meant a lot to them. We also have to realize that that many of "us" don't care about the playoffs. I have a friend from Hampton who knows nothing bout them going to the playoffs but he recalls when they played SU in Atlanta for the HB. We have to lean to our strengths and do what works for us.
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How can a team from a conference who did not win their league crown be invited to participate in the FCS playoffs? Secondly, let's say an HBCU makes it to the semifinals just like WSSU did this year, isn't that better than winning your conference title? Even if JSU would have went 10-1 this year, WSSU would have still beaten us for the HBCU crown just because of what they achieved. I am don't want to be the best HBCU, I would like for our teams to be the best FCS school who happens to be a HBCU!
 
Tigerpride said:
Since when did the NCAA pick who would go to the HB.. ya'll just making up stuff now. The Legacy Bowl would be for a MEAC and SWAC rep. :lol:
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How much money would have both teams and conferences would have made from this game? Last time I check, ESPN was only putting up 3 million to host the game. So that is 1.5 million for each conference. That only peanuts compared to other bowl games.
 
I can see jsu or any SWAC team for that matter in those tight short shorts walking the FCS playoff stroll with a handkercheif on the head with a chest tatoo stating owned by Big Daddy NCAA with a gold tooth smile. :lol: :emlaugh:
 
See what I mean about the SWAC mentality.
They can't justify their stance so they go to the "hoe stroll" JSU smack. Honestly, I laugh at this conference mentality like th joke it is. The only thing missing out this convo is the lie about how these other FCS schools ENVY us and the things we do. :lol:
 
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jstate83 said:
How much WORSE has the SWAC formula made us.
Please tell me how much IMPROVEMENT our teams have made since we basically said screw the playoffs and realized we only have to be good enough to beat other SWAC schools to reach our one and only yearly goal?
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If you look outside of BCF one day, you will see that ALL 1-AA conferences are weaker than they once were. The big schools gobble everything up since the internet took over recruiting. The MEAC only seems stronger than us becasue of the match-ups. If our good teams played their good teams, things would be no less than even.
 
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