NCAA investigating Tennessee's use of women in recruiting


LS Syndicate said:
Let me play devil's advocate here.....you are assuming that HBCU's do GAF about it's student athletes.

But who's to say that HBCU's care? There are selfish African Americans working at our schools NOW. I'd venture to say that Comegy and Woody cared very little about their players' lives off of the football field.
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LS,
I can see where you going with this. But you are right. It can happen at our schools as well. Poor coaches or ones who just don't care will use up our athletes too. I have seen it happen personally.

Bottom line is that if you are a marginal student athlete with no get up and go about yourself and think sports is your only out. You will fail at any of these schools. Whether you are at a HBCU or PWC. No one is going to hold you hand. Now you may get some teachers or coaches to talk with you more about trying harder if they see you slipping at a HBCU vs a PWC. But make no mistake. ALL college athletic programs these days will pimp you if you allow it to happen. Some for more dollars than others.

See a kid like a Grant Hill was going to make it no matter where he went to school. Same for David Robinson.....Derrick Brooks.......Charlie Ward....Desmond Howard.. Robert Smith....etc....Those guys just had good upbringing or folks around them early on and a will to do more than just play ball.

Some kids take advantage of their situation and resources and do not allow themselves to be pimped. I will use Troy Smith from Ohio State for example. Here was a kid from the hood in Cleveland who had a troubled upbringing. Got himself in to Ohio State, took a few hundred dollars from a booster after beating Michigan and got suspended for a bowl game. Kid could have just mailed it in. But nope, he got his classwork, graduated from school on his way to a Heisman Trophy. And his degree aint general studies. LOL. But my point is that kid wanted it for himself and he utilized the vast academic resources to graduate. Even though he is in the NFL as a backup Qb for the Ravens, he can fall back on his degree. Then you have the other extreme with a Maurice Clarett.....who would have failed at any school with his mentality. Some kids get it and take advantage of the game. Some kids just think NFL or NBA and say fugg school.

Our graduation rates for our athletes at the HBCUs shole aint nothing to write home about either. So we got some work to do too. Even if we got all those kids to come to our schools. They still will have the mentality of I am going pro and fugg school. As long as there are low down sports agents out there, there will be somebody waiting on that payday....including the families. Money and fame has ruined all of sports. You see these kids already being used even on the HS level just someone posted. The mentality begins early on. It is all about how can I get that fast money. Education is just not on most of these athletes mind. That is the mindset we have to change. Get that education as well as try to get that big payday. If we can convince our kids you can do both. Then maybe we would see some better results when their playing days are over.
 
LS Syndicate said:
Let me play devil's advocate here.....you are assuming that HBCU's do GAF about it's student athletes.

But who's to say that HBCU's care? There are selfish African Americans working at our schools NOW. I'd venture to say that Comegy and Woody cared very little about their players' lives off of the football field.
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If we have coaches like that in our HBCU system... they need to handed their pink slip....


All of this starts with us educating OUR own.... if we educating our kids and we have OUR coaches turning their backs on them, kick them out the door...

I know several of athletes that came under Pete... And non of them kids felt like Pete didn't care about their lively hood after SU... I'm sure Eddie Rob was like that, from hearing Broadway speak he seem to be the same type caring coach...and I am sure amonst all HBCUs it's more coaches that care than don't...
 



jsupop33 said:
Jared,
Everyone wanted to go pro. Even though my dad was a former JSU player and I went to the Bayou Classic all the time, I never thought about applying to an HBCU. I had NFL dreams and I just wanted to play on TV. I committed to USM in Summer 2002 and as far as I was concerned, that is where I was headed. Then, Bower fired his entire offensive staff and I never heard another peep. I actually got recruited to JSU because one of the coaches saw me on film playing against another guy they were recruiting (Lorenzo Breland). Our families were good friends and so the connection was made. That is how I got to JSU.

The sad thing is that I always hear other blacks putting down on black colleges. I heard nothing but praise for attending JSU from all my white cohorts.
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That's the perception from most of the blacks that I went to school with :noidea:! I was about the only one who felt or had a good perspective of black colleges and at the same time most of the ones that went to college ended up going to PWC's and their mentality was was quite distorted, lol. But they have changed some what for the better but it amazed me how they thought black colleges were basically a second class citizen (strange times man). But then you have to look at the times, there wasn't much info about black colleges during those times (i.e. internet, intranet and info. databases) and even though the internet was out (just starting to reach certain areas). Now that information is so rampant I think people realize and along with those pro personel who have achieved great things from Black Colleges I think a large majority of it (racial thinking) has deminished which has changed people's focus on recruiting the best talents where ever they may be.
 
LS Syndicate said:
Let me play devil's advocate here.....you are assuming that HBCU's do GAF about it's student athletes.

But who's to say that HBCU's care? There are selfish African Americans working at our schools NOW. I'd venture to say that Comegy and Woody cared very little about their players' lives off of the football field.
Click to expand...

If Comegy dont care why the hell is he a coach? I guess i have too much pride in black folks to think that other black folks have that same pride as me. Like sutrpt said its starts with education. They getting these black kids strait outta middle school to see if they have talent. I just gave an example of what they are doing in north louisiana. if yall feel that a black kid doesnt need to consider going to a hbcu then we need to just close down our athletic departments now. And please dont complain about sorry swac games since yall feel that black kids should go to pwc over hbcu. like i said

run n i g g e r run
 
luvdaboom said:
If Comegy dont care why the hell is he a coach? I guess i have too much pride in black folks to think that other black folks have that same pride as me.
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It's not about pride, it's about self preservation. There are some Blacks who'll go out of their way to hurt and there are some Whites who'll go out of their way to help you, believe it or not.

A kid has a right to choose where he/she wants to get his education and/ or play sports. Who's to say that an HBCU is best for him/ her? While I do agree that we need to stop bad-mouthing our HBCU's to the public, we shouldn't feel like we are entitled to every Black athlete. It starts with us. We have to start putting in the time and the effort and the money........consistently and on a large scale. That's where the problem lies. And even then we still might not get the best athlete
 
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luvdaboom said:
If Comegy dont care why the hell is he a coach? I guess i have too much pride in black folks to think that other black folks have that same pride as me. Like sutrpt said its starts with education. They getting these black kids strait outta middle school to see if they have talent. I just gave an example of what they are doing in north louisiana. if yall feel that a black kid doesnt need to consider going to a hbcu then we need to just close down our athletic departments now. And please dont complain about sorry swac games since yall feel that black kids should go to pwc over hbcu. like i said

run n i g g e r run
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Bruh,
Do you honestly think folks in that Athletic Department care about graduation rates? Well, a few of them do but please believe that the counselors have loyalty to the coaches first and players second. Their only concern is making sure that you get out of class in time for practice. If you want to be a football player at JSU and major in Engineering, you better be prepared to stay two extra years because every 300-400 level class in that department dang near is in the evening. Wait till you see our transfer graduation rate...:shame:
 
SUtrp96 said:
See this is the fcuked up thinking that have us in the position we are in right now..

1. How long is that "money" good for?
A.Until they aren't able to play there any more... or playing eligibility is up.. No more than 4-5 years..

2. Are they guaranteed to go pro?!?
A. H3ll NO!!!

3. If they get lucky and get in as a free agent is anything promised there? Will they be in the league long enough to draw a pension?

A. Chances aren't that great for most that go this route...


Do you think the MONEY these PWCs are PIMPING out is a "lifetime" supply?!?!

4. College sports are NOT a JOB!! (Total difference)

As a black man you should be APPAULED that our young black men are putting their futures in the hands of the HIGHEST BIDDER!!!

Isn’t that like "SLAVERY?"


:idea:
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I normally don't respond to this sort of hypocritical ignorance, but I'll make an exception.
Who did you sign off with when you were hired? Would you take a job with a Black company who wanted to pay you 40,000 dollars or would you sign with someone who wanted to offer you 90,000 dollars? I guess that's slavery too huh?
You up in here blaming these parents and players while being a hypocrite yourself. I can almost guarantee that you'd go to the highest bidder and you're a damn liar if you say you won't or have never done so. Get real dude, this is the 21st century for cryin out loud.

We live in a capitalistic society. If you want to compete, have your alumni give back to their schools so they'll have money to give to the athletes just like these White folks give back to theirs. Have your boosters do just what the other schools are doing. What's good for the goose is good for the gander too. I know of several players who graduated from White schools who took advantage of the situation and used them. Why can't their parents teach them to use them like the school's using them? That's educating.
 
luvdaboom said:
If Comegy dont care why the hell is he a coach? I guess i have too much pride in black folks to think that other black folks have that same pride as me. Like sutrpt said its starts with education. They getting these black kids strait outta middle school to see if they have talent. I just gave an example of what they are doing in north louisiana. if yall feel that a black kid doesnt need to consider going to a hbcu then we need to just close down our athletic departments now. And please dont complain about sorry swac games since yall feel that black kids should go to pwc over hbcu. like i said

run n i g g e r run
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I don't think anyone said "don't go to an HBCU school". That student and parent has to look at what's best for them. Our student athlete graduation rate at HBCU's are a joke. Some of the White schools have better percentages, so what does that say? What does that say about the coaches who are allowing this to happen? Why don't folks call them out on the carpet for this foolishness? Just going to a school because it's an HBCU school is not all there is to it and you can see by looking at the numbers.

Why are our rates so low, yet we're supposed to care about our own? Let's not get race mixed up with responsibity and options and opportunities.
 
JayRob said:
I normally don't respond to this sort of hypocritical ignorance, but I'll make an exception.
Who did you sign off with when you were hired? Would you take a job with a Black company who wanted to pay you 40,000 dollars or would you sign with someone who wanted to offer you 90,000 dollars? I guess that's slavery too huh?
You up in here blaming these parents and players while being a hypocrite yourself. I can almost guarantee that you'd go to the highest bidder and you're a damn liar if you say you won't or have never done so. Get real dude, this is the 21st century for cryin out loud.

We live in a capitalistic society. If you want to compete, have your alumni give back to their schools so they'll have money to give to the athletes just like these White folks give back to theirs. Have your boosters do just what the other schools are doing. What's good for the goose is good for the gander too. I know of several players who graduated from White schools who took advantage of the situation and used them. Why can't their parents teach them to use them like the school's using them? That's educating.
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Why are you trying to compare getting an education to WORKING after graduation?

I went to a BLACK school because it offers/ed just as good as an electrical engineering education as a Stanford or LSU... but for less money.... I gave my MONEY to a BLACK school to get educated...

Once I got out of school you damn right I was looking for the company ANY company that was offering me the most...

If it was an up and coming black engineering firm where I could have been instrumental in making it a more productive company meaning more incentives for me....yes I may have jumped on that ship...

Again... You are comparing getting an education to having WHAT ever company pay you what you feel you are worth... And that will never happen.. But if they can't give me what I feel i am worth...I will work for the company that offers the best benefits and best pay wages...Your on your own once you leave college...

College is NOT a JOB ... where do you get this thinking from?..
 
JayRob said:
I don't think anyone said "don't go to an HBCU school". That student and parent has to look at what's best for them. Our student athlete graduation rate at HBCU's are a joke. Some of the White schools have better percentages, so what does that say? What does that say about the coaches who are allowing this to happen? Why don't folks call them out on the carpet for this foolishness? Just going to a school because it's an HBCU school is not all there is to it and you can see by looking at the numbers.

Why are our rates so low, yet we're supposed to care about our own? Let's not get race mixed up with responsibity and options and opportunities.
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What's best for the parent and kid?

So you saying you agree that a college is supposed to better the kids and his parents situation?!?!

:lol:

I see where you at with it now.... BS!!
 
If I'm making hundreds of thousands of dollars for a school, I'd think I'd deserve more than a scholarship and books. I have high self-esteem, so YES, I think a school should give me more regardless of what the NCAA higher-ups say. If they want my services, they'll have to pay for it.
If you don't think you're worth more, then that's on you.

You want more money from your job, but you blame the student from wanting more from the job they have to win football games. This has hypocrite written all over it.
 
JayRob said:
If I'm making hundreds of thousands of dollars for a school, I'd think I'd deserve more than a scholarship and books. I have high self-esteem, so YES, I think a school should give me more regardless of what the NCAA higher-ups say. If they want my services, they'll have to pay for it.
If you don't think you're worth more, then that's on you.
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^^
That's the mentality from years and years of seeing PWCs getting mad paid and coaches making millions off of our prostituted kids....

That whole attitude has to change.... School is just that ... SCHOOL.... your job is to get EDUCATED!!


My high school (Warren Easton) has a 6 Million dollar endowment donated by us Alum and famous friends of some of our famous Alum... ie. Sandra Bulluck...

Money is made off the ticket sales of ALL football, basketball, baseball games.. So those high school kids and middle school 8th graders need to be asking us ALUM what we can do for them to come play ball at our school?
 
LS Syndicate said:
It's not about pride, it's about self preservation. There are some Blacks who'll go out of their way to hurt and there are some Whites who'll go out of their way to help you, believe it or not.

A kid has a right to choose where he/she wants to get his education and/ or play sports. Who's to say that an HBCU is best for him/ her? While I do agree that we need to stop bad-mouthing our HBCU's to the public, we shouldn't feel like we are entitled to every Black athlete. It starts with us. We have to start putting in the time and the effort and the money........consistently and on a large scale. That's where the problem lies. And even then we still might not get the best athlete
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thats it right there. First of all, we shouldn't be putting a kid down on where he/she decides to go to school. Heck, the way I see it....as long as they are pursuing a high education I am cool with it. Secondly, isn't it/shouldn't it be up to the kid to decide where is the best fit for them? If our HBCUs can't land top talent, then shouldn't they re-examine how they are selling themselves? PWCs aren't the only schools that use hostesses. I know of plenty of HBCUs that do the same thing. Besides, whose to say that just because your kid chooses an HBCU that they will take better care of him/her because they look like them.

What really needs to happen is our HBCUs need to wake da heck up and realize that yesteryear is over. We can no longer continue forward and expect to compete when we are living on what we use to do. Yeah, when so of you guys were coming out, facilities weren't that big of a deal. However, when you look at the locker rooms of Oregon, Texas, Bama, etc and these 100K seat stadiums and then tell these kids to check out AAMU, FAMU, JSU, who do you think will win out? Heck Bama just finished one stadium project and have already embarked on another to have a 100K seat stadium next fall. Lets look at the FCS. Some of the top schools have already starting buying into the facilities arms race.

My cousin decided to stay at Vanderbilt and play football, even though he could have come to A&M and been a starter, because he liked the engineering program at VU. Playing FB was cool with him, but he was using the system to get his. And I can't knock him for it.

We need to stop trying to knock these kids for there decisions and instead put some of the blame where its due.....on us as Alumni and our HBCUs for failing to do a better job of marketing themselves. If Boise State can move up from FCS and make themselves a major player in FBS in Idaho, how come we can't?
 
Well first of all we need to stop thinking these PWC academic programs are all that. Really they aren't. Have you really ever worked with some of these guys? Man you would be amazed how over rated Ivy league schools are.
 
CEE DOG said:
Well first of all we need to stop thinking these PWC academic programs are all that. Really they aren't. Have you really ever worked with some of these guys? Man you would be amazed how over rated Ivy league schools are.
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Don't I know....
 



Interesting conversation guys.

Think about this . . . even the bench-warmers at Bama and Texas get to go to Pasadena. Flying on private jets, staying in the best hotels, eating the best food, living the life of a superstar athlete just because you're on the team.

The HBCU alternative?

Seventeen hour bus rides from Huntsville or Montgomery to Houston or Prairie View. :lol:

I know there's far more to a college education than just the fun stuff. HBCUs offer culture, history, and usually a more nurturing environment. Trust me, I get it, and I believe in HBCUs. But today's young folk probably don't see it that way.
 
In the end if these bench riders try to continue playing, it's harder on them. I work with a person's who son left Stillman to play at UA and played on the scout team, then moved up to special teams on the bench. UA was just to deep for him to move up on the depth chart. He has been trying to get picked up for 3 years now. His parents told me that every team in the NFL told him that he is a typical NFL receiver with the hands and everything, yet they don't have film on him to tell how he holds up against competition in college. The Titans even told him he should have stayed at Stillman. It would have made it easier for him to get picked up. Man thousand's of these kids waste their future listening to guys like yall. just to chase a fake dream of playing big time. It's one thing to be like Tebow, but if you ain't him why waste your time riding the bench for four years of nothing.
Deuce said:
Interesting conversation guys.

Think about this . . . even the bench-warmers at Bama and Texas get to go to Pasadena. Flying on private jets, staying in the best hotels, eating the best food, living the life of a superstar athlete just because you're on the team.

The HBCU alternative?

Seventeen hour bus rides from Huntsville or Montgomery to Houston or Prairie View. :lol:

I know there's far more to a college education than just the fun stuff. HBCUs offer culture, history, and usually a more nurturing environment. Trust me, I get it, and I believe in HBCUs. But today's young folk probably don't see it that way.
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Dayum...

Now they sending Becky to the High School game to get Charles-Ray 'nem?????


Ain't no way a kid's gunna turn all the PWC trappings AND A WIHTE GURL too???


:shame:

:D:D
 
CEE DOG said:
In the end if these bench riders try to continue playing, it's harder on them. I work with a person's who son left Stillman to play at UA and played on the scout team, then moved up to special teams on the bench. UA was just to deep for him to move up on the depth chart. He has been trying to get picked up for 3 years now. His parents told me that every team in the NFL told him that he is a typical NFL receiver with the hands and everything, yet they don't have film on him to tell how he holds up against competition in college. The Titans even told him he should have stayed at Stillman. It would have made it easier for him to get picked up. Man thousand's of these kids waste their future listening to guys like yall. just to chase a fake dream of playing big time. It's one thing to be like Tebow, but if you ain't him why waste your time riding the bench for four years of nothing.
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CEE DOG,

Most of the bench-warmers already know they ain't goin' pro. :lol:

Seriously, and my point was that if you're a bench-warmer, and you know it :lol: where would you rather warm the bench - the Rose Bowl or Cramton Bowl? :lol:
 
CEE DOG said:
In the end if these bench riders try to continue playing, it's harder on them. I work with a person's who son left Stillman to play at UA and played on the scout team, then moved up to special teams on the bench. UA was just to deep for him to move up on the depth chart. He has been trying to get picked up for 3 years now. His parents told me that every team in the NFL told him that he is a typical NFL receiver with the hands and everything, yet they don't have film on him to tell how he holds up against competition in college. The Titans even told him he should have stayed at Stillman. It would have made it easier for him to get picked up. Man thousand's of these kids waste their future listening to guys like yall. just to chase a fake dream of playing big time. It's one thing to be like Tebow, but if you ain't him why waste your time riding the bench for four years of nothing.
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Funny, Matt Cassell got drafted without any significant college playing time.
 
SUtrp96 said:
Why are you trying to compare getting an education to WORKING after graduation?

I went to a BLACK school because it offers/ed just as good as an electrical engineering education as a Stanford or LSU... but for less money.... I gave my MONEY to a BLACK school to get educated...

Once I got out of school you damn right I was looking for the company ANY company that was offering me the most...

If it was an up and coming black engineering firm where I could have been instrumental in making it a more productive company meaning more incentives for me....yes I may have jumped on that ship...

Again... You are comparing getting an education to having WHAT ever company pay you what you feel you are worth... And that will never happen.. But if they can't give me what I feel i am worth...I will work for the company that offers the best benefits and best pay wages...Your on your own once you leave college...

College is NOT a JOB
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You make a good point, but I think you are approaching this from the mindset of someone in their 30's. You have to think about this from mindset of an impressionable, 17 year old kid.

When you have the NFL on your mind, it's hard to turn away from the big time programs. Especially when they want you. This fall, we had a kid literally walk out of training camp to go to a JUCO just for the hopes of one day playing for a big time program, maybe.
 
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CEE DOG said:
In the end if these bench riders try to continue playing, it's harder on them. I work with a person's who son left Stillman to play at UA and played on the scout team, then moved up to special teams on the bench. UA was just to deep for him to move up on the depth chart. He has been trying to get picked up for 3 years now. His parents told me that every team in the NFL told him that he is a typical NFL receiver with the hands and everything, yet they don't have film on him to tell how he holds up against competition in college. The Titans even told him he should have stayed at Stillman. It would have made it easier for him to get picked up. Man thousand's of these kids waste their future listening to guys like yall. just to chase a fake dream of playing big time. It's one thing to be like Tebow, but if you ain't him why waste your time riding the bench for four years of nothing.
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And you believe that? LOL!! How many NFL players does Stillman have, then tell me how many has Arizona turned out. Dude, somebody flat out lied to you.:emlaugh:

And who said education-wise that PWC's were all that or better than an HBCU education? I don't recall reading that. What I do know is that they have more to offer financially and that's what it's all about these days. Plus name-recognition is highly important when trying to get a job. Stillman versus Arizona? You tell me who is nationally known.
 
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JayRob said:
And you believe that? LOL!! How many NFL players does Stillman have, then tell me how many has Arizona turned out. Dude, somebody flat out lied to you.:emlaugh:

And who said education-wise that PWC's were all that or better than an HBCU education? I don't recall reading that. What I do know is that they have more to offer financially and that's what it's all about these days. Plus name-recognition is highly important when trying to get a job. Stillman versus Arizona? You tell me who is nationally known.
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I met some Wideouts at Pearl River, whom scouts told they should look at going to JSU rather than Mississippi State because the JSU offense would give them better opportunities to be seen. However, they ended up going to LA Tech I believe.
 
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