Your Thorn in the Flesh

[Bane]

Do any of you feel like GOD might have given you some type of limitation or weakness in order keep you humble? Maybe it's a situation like dealing with a difficult family member or illness that will not go away. Sometimes it's real frustrating to see other people do things so easily while you struggle mightily.

7To keep me from becoming conceited because of these surpassingly great revelations, there was given me a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me.
8Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me.
9But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me.
10That is why, for Christ's sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

Source

 

[illinijag]

Disclaimer: This message is only to those who believe in the one and only true God, the God who provided the Saviour (Jesus Christ).

Do any of you feel like GOD might have given you some type of limitation or weakness in order keep you humble? Maybe it's a situation like dealing with a difficult family member or illness that will not go away. Sometimes it's real frustrating to see other people do things so easily while you struggle mightily.

I think God gives this (Thorn/Chastening) to every man (saint and sinner), one of these Thorns being the inherent flaw of aging. However, those with a spiritual understanding will see these thorns as a blessing (a mean of chastening) to keep them focus on eternal things (that which gives glory to God) rather than temporal things (Pride, outward appearances and things of vanity). We as Christian must see beyond the thorn and know that it is for our greater good.

1 Corinthians 11:32. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

Hebrews 12:6-8 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

Example of a Thorn in the form of growing old (aging):

Aging will eventually remove man’s ability to manifest a physical pride even though his mine will often deceive him of such. However, a Christian SHOULD see this as a blessing from God as God removes his ability to hold on to temporal things; and thus he will began to seek more eternal things.

:idea: I fear more how I would be if I had no THORN(s). Would I even seek God?

Good Day and God Bless

 

[LaCumba]

Do any of you feel like GOD might have given you some type of limitation or weakness in order keep you humble? Maybe it's a situation like dealing with a difficult family member or illness that will not go away. Sometimes it's real frustrating to see other people do things so easily while you struggle mightily.

2 Corinthians 12:7
And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

Paul made it very clear that lest he should be exalted above measure through the abundance of revelations. This is the reason he was given the thorn in the flesh, because of the abundance of revelations. Any person that doesn't have the abundance of revelations that Paul had, has no business claiming Paul's thorn in the flesh. People will say that their sufferings and sicknesses is just like Paul's thorn in the flesh and that God gave it to them. People need to first recognize that the thorn in the flesh came because he had so much REVELATION. He wrote two thirds of the new testiment. He was mightly used by God and yet we have folks claiming Paul's thorn in the flesh and they don't understand the first thing about the Word of God. They are not operating in the supernatural power of God like Paul did and yet they want to claim Paul's thorn in the flesh. Then it goes on to say what the thorn was, the messenger of satan (translation: a demonic angel). The thorn came from Satan, not GOD. GOD didn't have some redemptive purpose in Paul's thorn in the flesh.

 

[Dr H..]

LaCumba

That’s it in a nutshell. I

would think that part of it had to do with Paul being taken up to the third heaven.
2 Corinthians 12:2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago---whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, God knows---such a man was caught up to the third heaven

It’s interesting Paul never recorded what God told him.

 

[illinijag]

Disclaimer: This message is only to those who believe in the one and only true God, the God who provided the Saviour (Jesus Christ).

2 Corinthians 12:7
And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

Paul made it very clear that lest he should be exalted above measure through the abundance of revelations. This is the reason he was given the thorn in the flesh, because of the abundance of revelations. Any person that doesn't have the abundance of revelations that Paul had, has no business claiming Paul's thorn in the flesh. People will say that their sufferings and sicknesses is just like Paul's thorn in the flesh and that God gave it to them. People need to first recognize that the thorn in the flesh came because he had so much REVELATION. He wrote two thirds of the new testiment. He was mightly used by God and yet we have folks claiming Paul's thorn in the flesh and they don't understand the first thing about the Word of God. They are not operating in the supernatural power of God like Paul did and yet they want to claim Paul's thorn in the flesh. Then it goes on to say what the thorn was, the messenger of satan. The thorn came from Satan, not GOD. GOD didn't have some redemptive purpose in Paul's thorn in the flesh.

LaCumba

That’s it in a nutshell. I

would think that part of it had to do with Paul being taken up to the third heaven.
2 Corinthians 12:2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago---whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, God knows---such a man was caught up to the third heaven

It’s interesting Paul never recorded what God told him.

HOLD UP...Let us take a look at this Nutshell

Paul was given the Thorn in the flesh not because of the "abundance of the revelations"; The Thorn was given to prevent him from being "exalted above measure". Man exalting himself is Pride; Pride is what God was preventing. The abundance of revelations was a good thing; it was how Paul would respond to it (uplifting himself beyond measure) that was bad. Also, when a person draw their analogy to Paul's Thorn, it is not that they had "The abundance of revelations" it is that they have an infirmity that humbles them. All Christian should be able to relate to this and see a simular work being done in them, which God did in Paul (buffet them so that they will not be exalted above measure).

As far a Satan being the instrument to bring the Infirmity, Satan and all that God made are only instruments that God uses to do His Ultimate Will. All acts of man, Satan, momma or daddy are only second causes....God is the first cause of all things in that He will initiate and/or allow them to happen.

Proverbs 21:1. The king's heart is in the hand of the Lord, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.

1 Corinthians 5:5. To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Job 1:12. And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord.

:lecture:We are all just as wrenches in God's tool box...."he turneth it whithersoever he will". If it is any other way, God do not have full Control.

Good Day and God Bless

 

[LaCumba]

Disclaimer: This message is only to those who believe in the one and only true God, the God who provided the Saviour (Jesus Christ).


HOLD UP...Let us take a look at this Nutshell

Paul was given the Thorn in the flesh not because of the "abundance of the revelations"; The Thorn was given to prevent him from being "exalted above measure". Man exalting himself is Pride; Pride is what God was preventing. The abundance of revelations was a good thing; it was how Paul would respond to it (uplifting himself beyond measure) that was bad. Also, when a person draw their analogy to Paul's Thorn, it is not that they had "The abundance of revelations" it is that they have an infirmity that humbles them. All Christian should be able to relate to this and see a simular work being done in them, which God did in Paul (buffet them so that they will not be exalted above measure).

As far a Satan being the instrument to bring the Infirmity, Satan and all that God made are only instruments that God uses to do His Ultimate Will. All acts of man, Satan, momma or daddy are only second causes....God is the first cause of all things in that He will initiate and/or allow them to happen.

Proverbs 21:1. The king's heart is in the hand of the Lord, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.

1 Corinthians 5:5. To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Job 1:12. And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord.

:lecture:We are all just as wrenches in God's tool box...."he turneth it whithersoever he will". If it is any other way, God do not have full Control.

Good Day and God Bless

I understand how you could come to that conclusion, but in context, the type of exalting you are talking about is not what Paul is talking about. The thorn was not to keep him from being "prideful" or boastful in his own self. He said "And lest I should be exalted. He didn't say lest he should exalt himself. What you are missing is that there is a Godly type of exaltation. If you read the scripture in the context of persecution, what Paul is saying is that the messenger of satan was persecuting him everywhere he went, trying to keep him from being exalted (in a Godly way) by the people. Paul was operating in the supernatural power of God and the people would look at him as see "man, this guy is powerful. I want what he's got." Well, to stop that, satan sent his messenger to buffet (afflict) him and fight against him everywhere he went. Paul in turn, ask God three times to remove the thorn, but God said no, my grace is sufficient. In other words, God told Paul "I did not redeem you from persecution. If I remove the persecution, then the ones doing the persecuting may never hear the Gospel. But, I have given you the power to go through it. Not through sickness but through persecution. The word infirmity is what throws a lot of people off. The word infirmity is not synonymous with sickess. It also means the lack of or inadequacy. If you keep it in context with scripture, Paul is saying that he suffered many things for Christ's sake: reproaches, necessities, persecutions and distresses. All of which can be an infirmity. None of these include sicknesses (which many people like to include).

Let's not get off subject but no, it is not God's ultimate will if someone gets sick or has a disease. The Word clearly states that it is ALWAYS His will that you prosper and be in GOOD health. The Word clearly states that Jesus came and healed all those who were oppressed of the devil (not of GOD). The Word clearly states that it is not God's will that anyone would perish, yet people are perishing everyday. The logic that God controls everything or that He allows it IS NOT consistent with scripture. Yes, GOD is souvreign in that He is self-sufficient and He can do anything, but GOD will not force you to do anything. There are some things that God has given you resonsibility to do and He will not break His word. He told YOU to resist the devil and the devil will flee from you. That's a responsibility He gave to YOU. But how many of us are constantly praying for God to get the devil off of us. He wont do it because He gave that responsibility to you. YOU are the one who controls that.

 

[Tiger1]

I understand how you could come to that conclusion, but in context, the type of exalting you are talking about is not what Paul is talking about. The thorn was not to keep him from being "prideful" or boastful in his own self. He said "And lest I should be exalted. He didn't say lest he should exalt himself. What you are missing is that there is a Godly type of exaltation. If you read the scripture in the context of persecution, what Paul is saying is that the messenger of satan was persecuting him everywhere he went, trying to keep him from being exalted (in a Godly way) by the people. Paul was operating in the supernatural power of God and the people would look at him as see "man, this guy is powerful. I want what he's got." Well, to stop that, satan sent his messenger to buffet (afflict) him and fight against him everywhere he went. Paul in turn, ask God three times to remove the thorn, but God said no, my grace is sufficient. In other words, God told Paul "I did not redeem you from persecution. If I remove the persecution, then the ones doing the persecuting may never hear the Gospel. But, I have given you the power to go through it. Not through sickness but through persecution. The word infirmity is what throws a lot of people off. The word infirmity is not synonymous with sickess. It also means the lack of or inadequacy. If you keep it in context with scripture, Paul is saying that he suffered many things for Christ's sake: reproaches, necessities, persecutions and distresses. All of which can be an infirmity. None of these include sicknesses (which many people like to include).

Let's not get off subject but no, it is not God's ultimate will if someone gets sick or has a disease. The Word clearly states that it is ALWAYS His will that you prosper and be in GOOD health. The Word clearly states that Jesus came and healed all those who were oppressed of the devil (not of GOD). The Word clearly states that it is not God's will that anyone would perish, yet people are perishing everyday. The logic that God controls everything or that He allows it IS NOT consistent with scripture. Yes, GOD is souvreign in that He is self-sufficient and He can do anything, but GOD will not force you to do anything. There are some things that God has given you resonsibility to do and He will not break His word. He told YOU to resist the devil and the devil will flee from you. That's a responsibility He gave to YOU. But how many of us are constantly praying for God to get the devil off of us. He wont do it because He gave that responsibility to you. YOU are the one who controls that.

You are talkin' good doc!!! :clap:

 

[illinijag]

Disclaimer: This message is only to those who believe in the one and only true God, the God who provided the Saviour (Jesus Christ).

I understand how you could come to that conclusion, but in context, the type of exalting you are talking about is not what Paul is talking about. The thorn was not to keep him from being "prideful" or boastful in his own self. He said "And lest I should be exalted. He didn't say lest he should exalt himself. What you are missing is that there is a Godly type of exaltation. If you read the scripture in the context of persecution, what Paul is saying is that the messenger of satan was persecuting him everywhere he went, trying to keep him from being exalted (in a Godly way) by the people. Paul was operating in the supernatural power of God and the people would look at him as see "man, this guy is powerful. I want what he's got." Well, to stop that, satan sent his messenger to buffet (afflict) him and fight against him everywhere he went. Paul in turn, ask God three times to remove the thorn, but God said no, my grace is sufficient. In other words, God told Paul "I did not redeem you from persecution. If I remove the persecution, then the ones doing the persecuting may never hear the Gospel. But, I have given you the power to go through it. Not through sickness but through persecution. The word infirmity is what throws a lot of people off. The word infirmity is not synonymous with sickess. It also means the lack of or inadequacy. If you keep it in context with scripture, Paul is saying that he suffered many things for Christ's sake: reproaches, necessities, persecutions and distresses. All of which can be an infirmity. None of these include sicknesses (which many people like to include).

Let's not get off subject but no, it is not God's ultimate will if someone gets sick or has a disease. The Word clearly states that it is ALWAYS His will that you prosper and be in GOOD health. The Word clearly states that Jesus came and healed all those who were oppressed of the devil (not of GOD). The Word clearly states that it is not God's will that anyone would perish, yet people are perishing everyday. The logic that God controls everything or that He allows it IS NOT consistent with scripture. Yes, GOD is souvreign in that He is self-sufficient and He can do anything, but GOD will not force you to do anything. There are some things that God has given you resonsibility to do and He will not break His word. He told YOU to resist the devil and the devil will flee from you. That's a responsibility He gave to YOU. But how many of us are constantly praying for God to get the devil off of us. He wont do it because He gave that responsibility to you. YOU are the one who controls that.

If this was Godly exaltation, why would God buffet exaltation to HIM? God would be fighting against God!

I stand by my statement 100%. I will let the context speak for itself:

KJV 2 Corinthians 12:4-6. How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities. For though I would desire to gloryI shall not be a fool, ; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me.

NKJ 2 Corinthians 12:4-6. how he was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. Of such a one I will boast; yet of myself I will not boast, except in my infirmities. For though I might desire to boastI will not be a fool, ; for I will speak the truth. But I forbear, lest anyone should think of me above what he sees me to be or hears from me.

LVB 2 Corinthians 12:4-6 and heard things so astounding that they are beyond a man's power to describe or put in words (and anyway I am not allowed to tell them to others). That experience is something worth bragging about, but I am not going to do it. I am going to boast only about how weak I am and how great God is to use such weakness for his glory. I have plenty to boast about and would be no fool in doing it, but I don't want anyone to think more highly of me than he should from what he can actually see in my life and my message.

God used Abigail to buffet David (1 Samuel 25) prior to him going to kill Nabol and his men, this is the same in that God is using a tool to impede the sin of His servant. Actually, I think God hates pride more than Murder.

It does not matter what the infirmity is or is not, the buffet prevents potential sins.

Good Day and God Bless

 

[Bane]

Disclaimer: This message is only to those who believe in the one and only true God, the God who provided the Saviour (Jesus Christ).



If this was Godly exaltation, why would God buffet exaltation to HIM? God would be fighting against God!

I stand by my statement 100%. I will let the context speak for itself:

KJV 2 Corinthians 12:4-6. How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities. For though I would desire to gloryI shall not be a fool, ; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me.

NKJ 2 Corinthians 12:4-6. how he was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. Of such a one I will boast; yet of myself I will not boast, except in my infirmities. For though I might desire to boastI will not be a fool, ; for I will speak the truth. But I forbear, lest anyone should think of me above what he sees me to be or hears from me.

LVB 2 Corinthians 12:4-6 and heard things so astounding that they are beyond a man's power to describe or put in words (and anyway I am not allowed to tell them to others). That experience is something worth bragging about, but I am not going to do it. I am going to boast only about how weak I am and how great God is to use such weakness for his glory. I have plenty to boast about and would be no fool in doing it, but I don't want anyone to think more highly of me than he should from what he can actually see in my life and my message.

God used Abigail to buffet David (1 Samuel 25) prior to him going to kill Nabol and his men, this is the same in that God is using a tool to impede the sin of His servant. Actually, I think God hates pride more than Murder.

It does not matter what the infirmity is or is not, the buffet prevents potential sins.

Good Day and God Bless

Thanks illinijag, what you stated is exactly was I was referring to. Paul was given that throne in his flesh in order to keep him humble. It is stated very clearly.

7To keep me from becoming conceited because of these surpassingly great revelations, there was given me a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me.

That is clear as day.

 

[illinijag]

Disclaimer: This message is only to those who believe in the one and only true God, the God who provided the Saviour (Jesus Christ).

7To keep me from becoming conceited because of these surpassingly great revelations, there was given me a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me.

Thanks illinijag, what you stated is exactly was I was referring to. Paul was given that throne in his flesh in order to keep him humble. It is stated very clearly.

That is clear as day.

That is why I Love the Word, It Speaks for itself...as long as we don't read (a predetermine belief) into it.

Thank God for using Paul to share this with us for this gives us insight as to how God deals with those He love. We will not have all the gifts Paul had (there are many) or this vision that God gave Him. We have something Greater, the complete word of God (a sizable portion written by Paul). There is much to learn from 2 Corinthians 12... which speaks to the following:

2 Timothy 3:16-17. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Romans 8:28. And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Good Day and God Bless

 

[LaCumba]

Disclaimer: This message is only to those who believe in the one and only true God, the God who provided the Saviour (Jesus Christ).



That is why I Love the Word, It Speaks for itself...as long as we don't read (a predetermine belief) into it.

Thank God for using Paul to share this with us for this gives us insight as to how God deals with those He love. We will not have all the gifts Paul had (there are many) or this vision that God gave Him. We have something Greater, the complete word of God (a sizable portion written by Paul). There is much to learn from 2 Corinthians 12... which speaks to the following:

2 Timothy 3:16-17. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Romans 8:28. And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Good Day and God Bless

I'm not sure what you meant by that statement, but if you have been born again of the Spirit, you have everything that Paul had. You may not be operating in the Spirit like Paul did, but you definitely have access to the exact same power that he had. The Word also clearly states that you have the fullness of the Godhead dwelling on the inside of you. You have the mind of Christ and you know all things. You are complete in Christ. As Jesus is (right now in heaven), so are we (in this world). All of these things are in your born again spirit. You just need to learn how to draw it out of the spirit and in to physical manifestation. Many of us just don't know what we have (because of our "predetermined belief") and because of it, we limit the supernatural power of God in our lives. If what you believe is working for you and you are doing the works of Christ (healing the sick, raising the dead, casting out demons, opening blind eyes), then praise God. But if you are not seeing these things operate in your life then you are living beneath your priviledge, as many of us are.

 

[illinijag]

Disclaimer: This message is only to those who believe in the one and only true God, the God who provided the Saviour (Jesus Christ).

I'm not sure what you meant by that statement, but if you have been born again of the Spirit, you have everything that Paul had. You may not be operating in the Spirit like Paul did, but you definitely have access to the exact same power that he had. The Word also clearly states that you have the fullness of the Godhead dwelling on the inside of you. You have the mind of Christ and you know all things. You are complete in Christ. As Jesus is (right now in heaven), so are we (in this world). All of these things are in your born again spirit. You just need to learn how to draw it out of the spirit and in to physical manifestation. Many of us just don't know what we have (because of our "predetermined belief") and because of it, we limit the supernatural power of God in our lives. If what you believe is working for you and you are doing the works of Christ (healing the sick, raising the dead, casting out demons, opening blind eyes), then praise God. But if you are not seeing these things operate in your life then you are living beneath your priviledge, as many of us are.

I do not raise the dead, I do not cast out demons, I do not heal the Sick, nor do I open blind eyes. I send these request to God by prayer and I let God do His will. These were gifts given to the Apostles and members of the early Church to confirm their authority, due to the fact that scripture was not complete.

Mark 16:20. And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

Signs and/or miracles never saved anyone. The only tool/means God uses to save is His Word (His written and Preached word).

Romans 10:13-15. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

Romans 10:17. So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

1 Corinthians 1:21-24. For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

Luke 16:27-31. Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

:clap:Now those words are music to my ears… a thing of beauty

Israel saw many signs…look at their fate. Here is Christ view of those who seek signs/miracles:

Matthew 12:38-39. Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee. But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

As Christians we have a more sure word of prophecy and this is the complete word of God. It is more sure than even a word from heaven:

2 Peter 1:18-19. And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount. We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

Beware of Miracles for God has given such powers to Satan and his demons:

Mark 13:22-23. For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect. But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.

2 Timothy 3:8. Now as Jannes and Jambres (snake makers the book of Exodus)withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

God is soverign and He will do as He will, so if it pleases God to give someone these Gifts such is His will. However, if you know of anyone with these gifts please send me a video. Even with such evidence, how might one know the source of such power? Thus, I will stay with the word Given by God.

Keep in mine that most who seeks spiritual gifts focus less on Christ Crucified and more on the Holy Spirit. Yet, Christ stated that the Holy Spirit (which is the power behind all spiritual gifts) would speak of Christ not of Himself.

John 16:13-14. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

:lecture:Beware of Satan for his main objective is to direct us away from Christ. Let us not do his bidding…

Also, these temporal things (healing the sick, raising the dead, casting out demons, opening blind eyes) are only shadows that points to the permenant solution which is Christ. Christ healing is what we need to seek, a healing that will reconcile us to a Holy God...a healing that transcends eternity.

Let us ot spend so much time on searching for trinkets and miss out on the true treasures which is only Christ.

Good Day and God Bless

 

[LaCumba]

Disclaimer: This message is only to those who believe in the one and only true God, the God who provided the Saviour (Jesus Christ).



I do not raise the dead, I do not cast out demons, I do not heal the Sick, nor do I open blind eyes. I send these request to God by prayer and I let God do His will. These were gifts given to the Apostles and members of the early Church to confirm their authority, due to the fact that scripture was not complete.

And the above statements is the kind of thinking and one of the reasons why the Body of Christ has no power in the world today. You don't practice this because you don't know what you have. And most people who hear it will not accept it because it puts responsibility on them. It's easy to say let God's will be done but it's another thing to go out and demonstrate the power of God in someone's life. Jesus commanded his disciples to go out and do this. Are we not disciples of Jesus today? Did He not say that we would receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon us? Was He just speaking the early church when He said this? By that logic, He was only speaking to the early church when He said love your neighbor as you love yourself. If we are disciples of Christ, He was speaking to us as well and we have the same responsibility as those of the early church. There is only one Body of Christ and it includes the early church as well as the modern day church.

 

[illinijag]

Disclaimer: This message is only to those who believe in the one and only true God, the God who provided the Saviour (Jesus Christ).

And the above statements is the kind of thinking and one of the reasons why the Body of Christ has no power in the world today. You don't practice this because you don't know what you have. And most people who hear it will not accept it because it puts responsibility on them. It's easy to say let God's will be done but it's another thing to go out and demonstrate the power of God in someone's life. Jesus commanded his disciples to go out and do this. Are we not disciples of Jesus today? Did He not say that we would receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon us? Was He just speaking the early church when He said this? By that logic, He was only speaking to the early church when He said love your neighbor as you love yourself. If we are disciples of Christ, He was speaking to us as well and we have the same responsibility as those of the early church. There is only one Body of Christ and it includes the early church as well as the modern day church.

Thanks for the question (However, did I not provide additional information, which supported my statement?).

The true Body of Christ has much power; that Power resides at the Right Hand of the Father. He (Jesus) is the Head of the Body. I /We (who are in the Body) can Boldly go to Him and make all of our request.

Hebrews 1:3-4 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

Hebrews 4:16. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

If my answer is not as soon as I would like or if my will is not consistent with His will. I still know that what He has promised Paul he has also a promised me.

2 Corinthians 12:9. And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

Ponder this:

1. Judas Iscariot was given power to heal and cast out demons. What was Judas fate?

Matthew 10: 1-4. And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease. Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.

2. Many will come before Christ with testimony of casting out demons and many other miracles. What were their fate?

Matthew 7:22. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

3. The Greatest Human born (under the sun) of a woman had no gifts of healing and none of the sign gifts you posted. He only preached CHRIST.

Matthew 11:11. Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

So I ask YOU:

1. Does your Church or You have the sign gifts you imply the Body of Christ should have?
2. Given that Christ has beed revealed, What would be the purpose of Us having these gifts? Answer this one and I will show you the greater benefit of Prayer by Going Boldly to the Throne

.

This is all we really need to:

Matthew 6:33. But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things (as such pleases God) shall be added unto you.


Good Day and God Bless

 

[LaCumba]

Disclaimer: This message is only to those who believe in the one and only true God, the God who provided the Saviour (Jesus Christ).



Thanks for the question (However, did I not provide additional information, which supported my statement?).

The true Body of Christ has much power; that Power resides at the Right Hand of the Father. He (Jesus) is the Head of the Body. I /We (who are in the Body) can Boldly go to Him and make all of our request.

Hebrews 1:3-4 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

Hebrews 4:16. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

If my answer is not as soon as I would like or if my will is not consistent with His will. I still know that what He has promised Paul he has also a promised me.

2 Corinthians 12:9. And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

Ponder this:

1. Judas Iscariot was given power to heal and cast out demons. What was Judas fate?

Matthew 10: 1-4. And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease. Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.

2. Many will come before Christ with testimony of casting out demons and many other miracles. What were their fate?

Matthew 7:22. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

3. The Greatest Human born (under the sun) of a woman had no gifts of healing and none of the sign gifts you posted. He only preached CHRIST.

Matthew 11:11. Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

So I ask YOU:

1. Does your Church or You have the sign gifts you imply the Body of Christ should have?
2. Given that Christ has beed revealed, What would be the purpose of Us having these gifts? Answer this one and I will show you the greater benefit of Prayer by Going Boldly to the Throne

.

This is all we really need to:

Matthew 6:33. But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things (as such pleases God) shall be added unto you.


Good Day and God Bless

Jag,

Anyone can pull scriptures out of context and post it. It doesn't mean it supports anything. I can tell by your postings that you take the majority of scripture at face value and you have no revelation knowledge of what you are posting. So I will leave you with this prayer that Paul prayed in Ephesians 1:17-19:

Eph 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

Eph 1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

Eph 1:19 And what [is] the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

 

[illinijag]

Disclaimer: This message is only to those who believe in the one and only true God, the God who provided the Saviour (Jesus Christ).

Jag,

Anyone can pull scriptures out of context and post it. It doesn't mean it supports anything. I can tell by your postings that you take the majority of scripture at face value and you have no revelation knowledge of what you are posting.

You are right. However, SHOW ME WHERE I HAVE TAKEN SCRIPTURE OUT OF CONTEXT OR USED IN ERROR? I will yield to any scripture, which proves me to be in error due to as you say “my lack of revelation knowledgeâ€. For me to do otherwise is Pride. I do lack more than what I desire, so there is no dispute with your comment. However, I will remain in this foolish state unless enlighten folks as yourself can provide me insights supported by scripture.

It is not my desire that you believe me, for all I believe is founded on Scripture not in man’s traditions, personal commentary, repeated rhetoric from non-Biblical supported preaching or just things that sounds good. If it can’t be support by scripture it should not be used as doctrine to live by. If what I post is consistent with God’s Word, it is not me you are rejecting. Again, I stand by my words 100%, unless you can show me by Scripture that such is to the contrary.

So I will leave you with this prayer that Paul prayed in Ephesians 1:17-19:

Eph 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

Eph 1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

Eph 1:19 And what [is] the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

Thanks for the Prayer… I leave this to you and everyone…

SUBJECT ALL THINGS TO SCRIPTURE….​

1 Thessalonians 5:21. Prove all things (via Truth – God’s Word); hold fast that which is good.

If this was good for the Bereans (Acts 17:11) it should also serve well for us.

I will not press you on the questions I asked you in preceding posts. However, it is my hope that you answer them for yourself, for in doing so you will find the truth. This is not about me it is all about truth. If you are truly a member of Christ body, you are my Brother or Sister. Contary to what most believe about Love, Love within the Body of Christ serves not the temporal goal of comfort through compromise but the Greater good of finding truth and the source of all truth (Christ – the Word Made Flesh). Finding truth often hurts, as Christians we must view this suffering in the context of eternity:

Romans 8:18. For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

Good Day and God Bless