Do you believe their name claim it theology,alleged healing powers,and heavy emphasis on tithing.Why do they need to see your w2 are they as concerned about other facets of one's spiritual devolopment.Some of the biggest names in the church teach this ie Creflo Dollar,Juanita Bynum,Fred Price,Rod Parsley,and TD Jakes.Are we testing what they are saying in light of scripture or are we just looking for a good sermon?Since they require us to provide a w2 shouldn't we require them to make an accounting of all monies going into the basket?How about all these mega churches in the inner city yet our communities are going to hell faster than a Ferrari on the German Audobon.
Word Faith teachers
- Thread starter BISON-2K1
- Start date
LMBH
Member
If the Pastor/Teachers strongly encourage the congregation to bring their bibles, then teach in a way that everyone is on the same page, then absolutely. I have no problem in following or at minimum believing what's printed in the bible and since healing and tithing is scriptural, I believe that, also.
What pastors, specifically, that you know to be true have asked for a W-2 as a requirement for membership? A similar rumor was circulating about the church I attend, however, it is totally false.
What pastors, specifically, that you know to be true have asked for a W-2 as a requirement for membership? A similar rumor was circulating about the church I attend, however, it is totally false.
dacontinent
Preacher
Re: Are you serious?
Can't afford to not tithe. The promise through tithing is between me and God and not the ministry that I give through.
I have heard W2 rumors, but I have no knowledge from anyone that is a member of a church that has implemented such a practice. As a pastor, I would never do it. It sounds more like club membership...and what are you going to do to someone who does not conform? About the only thing you can do is restrict them from a business meeting when the constitution/articles of incorporation would disqualify someone who does not conform.
Yes, regardless of what the membership qualifications are, every member who meets them should require full disclosure of the disposition of all revenue and expenses.
Can't afford to not tithe. The promise through tithing is between me and God and not the ministry that I give through.
I have heard W2 rumors, but I have no knowledge from anyone that is a member of a church that has implemented such a practice. As a pastor, I would never do it. It sounds more like club membership...and what are you going to do to someone who does not conform? About the only thing you can do is restrict them from a business meeting when the constitution/articles of incorporation would disqualify someone who does not conform.
Yes, regardless of what the membership qualifications are, every member who meets them should require full disclosure of the disposition of all revenue and expenses.
docmump
The Arch Nemesis
Re: Re: Are you serious?
My pastor stated this on yesturday that he would like to know how much each member made. I dont believe this is a requirement for membership, I believe he is going to ask us for a faith offering. You know "give the church a weeks worth of work." But, I don't know where he is going with this.
Once again this topic has come up. I dont see anything wrong with it. We give that type of information up all the time. To the Credit Card people for example, and we dont know them at all. I guess it is something about the Church some people have problems with.
dacontinent,
My pastor stated this on yesturday that he would like to know how much each member made. I dont believe this is a requirement for membership, I believe he is going to ask us for a faith offering. You know "give the church a weeks worth of work." But, I don't know where he is going with this.
Once again this topic has come up. I dont see anything wrong with it. We give that type of information up all the time. To the Credit Card people for example, and we dont know them at all. I guess it is something about the Church some people have problems with.
You should do this anyways, as an active member of your church. You, as an active member, have rights to know how the money is being used. This should not based on if you submit a W-2 or not. Ask your pastor for a break down of your church's expenses, he should give it to you. I know mine will and does.
Jacy
No Tests, No Testimony
I have gotten a good hearty laugh....
Ok, ok, I can see volunteering to give your personal info for a credit card, but you are applying for something. They are going to determine whether or not you are credit worthy.
What does my W2 determine in church? How much credit I get?
Originally posted by docmump
dacontinent,
Once again this topic has come up. I dont see anything wrong with it. We give that type of information up all the time. To the Credit Card people for example, and we dont know them at all. I guess it is something about the Church some people have problems with.
Ok, ok, I can see volunteering to give your personal info for a credit card, but you are applying for something. They are going to determine whether or not you are credit worthy.
What does my W2 determine in church? How much credit I get?
docmump
The Arch Nemesis
Re: I have gotten a good hearty laugh....
Your first question.
I could crack a bunch of jokes now but I will not. I will just think about them. :lol::lol:
Your first question.
Absolutely Nothin. I guess he wants to ask us for some type of faith offering or to make sure that the membership is paying their full tithe. Once again I state, I dont know know why he would want this type of information. But the paying of the tithe is a commitment between me and God. The church is where the commitment is made. The church would be the representitive.
More then you could even imagine.
sophandros
Free Thinker
Tithing is a part of the "Old Covenant" Laws, like animal sacrifice, Saturday Sabbath, looking women up during their periods, etc.
It's interesting that ALL OF THE OTHER "Old Laws" are ignored EXCEPT this one...
GREED is wrong, lack of tithing isn't. There is a difference, btw.
It's interesting that ALL OF THE OTHER "Old Laws" are ignored EXCEPT this one...
GREED is wrong, lack of tithing isn't. There is a difference, btw.
docmump
The Arch Nemesis
Sophandros,
You keep stating this but that is not true. Jesus stated that we should keep his Father's Commandments. No one is ignoring the "Old Laws". We are under a new Covenant. There was the Adamic Covenant, then the Abrahamic Covenant, then the Mosaic Covenant, etc. With Jesus came a new Covenant. Salvation being a part of it. You really need to go ahead and ask the question, "What really is Salvation"? Cause I belive you dont get it. This may be the reason you are an apostate. No harm meant by that I just see a lack of understand on how we came from the "Old" to the "New".
Oh and by the way there is a difference between Greed and paying the Tithe, but I believe that is not when you meant by your comment.
sophandros
Free Thinker
Originally posted by docmump
Sophandros,
You keep stating this but that is not true. Jesus stated that we should keep his Father's Commandments. No one is ignoring the "Old Laws". We are under a new Covenant. There was the Adamic Covenant, then the Abrahamic Covenant, then the Mosaic Covenant, etc. With Jesus came a new Covenant. Salvation being a part of it. You really need to go ahead and ask the question, "What really is Salvation"? Cause I belive you dont get it. This may be the reason you are an apostate. No harm meant by that I just see a lack of understand on how we came from the "Old" to the "New".
Oh and by the way there is a difference between Greed and paying the Tithe, but I believe that is not when you meant by your comment.
So why don't you sacrifice animals? Why don't you observe the Sabbath on its PROPER day? Why don't you follow the rest of the LAW?
This is not a salvation issue; rather, it's an issue concerning religious institutions and theology, and soteriology is specific to one religious institution.
Greed and not tithing are two different issues; there may be legitimate reasons--including sound theological ones--for not tithing, while greed is purely self-serving.
Of course, I'd rather discuss general spiritual and philosophical matters as opposed to specific issues, since no one will ever agree on specific religious issue. But I digress...
Oh, and how was your Christmas?
BluBlood
"Mississippi Woman"
Originally posted by sophandros
So why don't you sacrifice animals? Why don't you observe the Sabbath on its PROPER day? Why don't you follow the rest of the LAW?Jesus's death took care of this!!!
This is not a salvation issue; rather, it's an issue concerning religious institutions and theology, and soteriology is specific to one religious institution.
Greed and not tithing are two different issues; there may be legitimate reasons--including sound theological ones--for not tithing, while greed is purely self-serving.
Of course, I'd rather discuss general spiritual and philosophical matters as opposed to specific issues, since no one will ever agree on specific religious issue. But I digress...
Oh, and how was your Christmas?
Tithing is also mentioned in the New Testament.
ThaTromboneGuy
New Member
THIS IS SO INTERESTING TO ME
I have researched this like crazy...
I attend one of these 'Word Faith" Churches...
Actually the name of my Church is "Word of Faith!"
Everything thats mentioned is very true!!! Some of teh pastors do ask for check stubs, they encourage you to bring your bible, I dunno about the W-2 <--- Thats a new one!
I strongly believe that you can confess your blessings. I name it and claim it in every area of my life everyday.
The ministries that you named
Those are some of the biggest names in the Ministry. Creflo Dollar World Changers is a Word Church, Juanita Bynum... I don't know much about her, Fred Price Crenshaw Christan Center is a Word Church, Rob Parsley World Harvest Church is a Word Church, T. D. Jakes The Potters House is a Word Church...
All of the ministries mentioned except one because i don't know teaches teh Word of God and encourages you to bring your bible because the churches are so big, there are rumors going around that they are cultic. Now, I have been to every single one of those churches except Prophetess Bynum's Church. I don't see anything wrong.
They encourage tithing big time!!!
WOULDN'T YOU?????
You can't survive in a Multimillion dollar Ministry on pennie givers. The tenthis what keeps the Ministry rolling. Now whatever the member or the visitor wants to give then thats that but the tenth is due!
THE MEGACHURCH
If people come to church... WE CAN'T HELP THAT!!!! We build until we can accomidate the crowd and its that simple. When teh Church gets that big, thats when the pastor needs assistants therefore having a Ministerial Staff... The ministerial Staff does have to show their check stubbs because they are employed by the church.
Helping the inner city...
The church is the church. The only thing that makes a Megachurch different is its size and money. Money isn't really that much different because we have to buy bigger things.
I'll add more...
I have researched this like crazy...
I attend one of these 'Word Faith" Churches...
Actually the name of my Church is "Word of Faith!"
Everything thats mentioned is very true!!! Some of teh pastors do ask for check stubs, they encourage you to bring your bible, I dunno about the W-2 <--- Thats a new one!
I strongly believe that you can confess your blessings. I name it and claim it in every area of my life everyday.
The ministries that you named
Those are some of the biggest names in the Ministry. Creflo Dollar World Changers is a Word Church, Juanita Bynum... I don't know much about her, Fred Price Crenshaw Christan Center is a Word Church, Rob Parsley World Harvest Church is a Word Church, T. D. Jakes The Potters House is a Word Church...
All of the ministries mentioned except one because i don't know teaches teh Word of God and encourages you to bring your bible because the churches are so big, there are rumors going around that they are cultic. Now, I have been to every single one of those churches except Prophetess Bynum's Church. I don't see anything wrong.
They encourage tithing big time!!!
WOULDN'T YOU?????
You can't survive in a Multimillion dollar Ministry on pennie givers. The tenthis what keeps the Ministry rolling. Now whatever the member or the visitor wants to give then thats that but the tenth is due!
THE MEGACHURCH
If people come to church... WE CAN'T HELP THAT!!!! We build until we can accomidate the crowd and its that simple. When teh Church gets that big, thats when the pastor needs assistants therefore having a Ministerial Staff... The ministerial Staff does have to show their check stubbs because they are employed by the church.
Helping the inner city...
The church is the church. The only thing that makes a Megachurch different is its size and money. Money isn't really that much different because we have to buy bigger things.
I'll add more...
Fortitude
Sybarite
I don't attend a "Word" church (so to speak) but, I do tithe. I do not feel that I should have to show my check stub or my w-2 to my pastor or anyone else. (that's going a bit too far.) Figuring 10% of my income is not that hard. I am of above average intelligence. For those who don't mind sharing that information - More Power to You. I must say that I have no problems with any of the ministers listed (well, I do wonder about Rod Parsley). I love Bishop Jakes and watch him every Sunday at 5 p.m. and through the week (if I wake up) at 6 a.m.
docmump
The Arch Nemesis
Ok Here we go.....
We do observe the Sabbath. The Christian sabbath.
I already told you we do follow the rest of the laws.
Christmas. It was Great!! I got to spend time with my brother is lives who Alabama.
The Animals are not the important part. The Sacrifice is. The reasons why they sacrificed is important, not the animals. And Jesus gave the ultimate sacrifice. His Life.
We do observe the Sabbath. The Christian sabbath.
I already told you we do follow the rest of the laws.
I disagree, It is about Salvation and how you dont understand how one man's act can save a sin filled world. This is what most of your posts are lacking, an understanding of Salvation. Even if you dont believe, you still should understand what salvation is, being an apostate.
You are right. 100%.
Please dont digress..... I believe we can discuss general spiritual and philosophical matters at the same time discuss specific issues. Like Tithing, greed in the church, Word Faith, and Salvation.Originally posted by sophandros
Of course, I'd rather discuss general spiritual and philosophical matters as opposed to specific issues, since no one will ever agree on specific religious issue. But I digress...
Oh, and how was your Christmas?
Christmas. It was Great!! I got to spend time with my brother is lives who Alabama.
sophandros
Free Thinker
BluBlood,
You say that Jesus's death took care of the Law, so why do some people still adhere to certain parts of the Law and not others?
Furthermore, if we are to assume that Jesus was Jewish and Christianity is the fulfillment of Judaism, then Jesus's death was AGAINST Hebrew Law, since human sacrifice is prohibited.
You say that Jesus's death took care of the Law, so why do some people still adhere to certain parts of the Law and not others?
Furthermore, if we are to assume that Jesus was Jewish and Christianity is the fulfillment of Judaism, then Jesus's death was AGAINST Hebrew Law, since human sacrifice is prohibited.
sophandros
Free Thinker
Re: Ok Here we go.....
Well, that's where there is the major disconnect, for I don't believe that this is a sin-filled world. I understand the Christian principle of Salvation, but I don't believe in it for that fundamental reason.
I'm going to be off-line for a few days, so if I don't get back to you, have a happy and safe New Year.
Well, that's where there is the major disconnect, for I don't believe that this is a sin-filled world. I understand the Christian principle of Salvation, but I don't believe in it for that fundamental reason.
I'm going to be off-line for a few days, so if I don't get back to you, have a happy and safe New Year.
Tithing is OT in fact it began 400 years before the OT Law approximately. It began after Abraham defeated the king of Sodom. {Gen. 14:20}. This particular action set the example for giving a tenth. But, when the OT is studied you will find the Hebrews gave more than ten percent, some gave as much as eighty percent.
?You say that Jesus's death took care of the Law, so why do some people still adhere to certain parts of the Law and not others??
It called legalism or trying to live by the old law.
?Furthermore, if we are to assume that Jesus was Jewish and Christianity is the fulfillment of Judaism, then Jesus's death was AGAINST Hebrew Law, since human sacrifice is prohibited.?
He was not sacrificed. He went to the cross willingly. It was prophesied in the OT. Therefore it was not a sacrifice.
?You say that Jesus's death took care of the Law, so why do some people still adhere to certain parts of the Law and not others??
It called legalism or trying to live by the old law.
?Furthermore, if we are to assume that Jesus was Jewish and Christianity is the fulfillment of Judaism, then Jesus's death was AGAINST Hebrew Law, since human sacrifice is prohibited.?
He was not sacrificed. He went to the cross willingly. It was prophesied in the OT. Therefore it was not a sacrifice.
dacontinent
Preacher
Somebody needs to qualify this
Word Church is an organization, not a description. None of the ministries named are affiliated.
Just who or what are we talking about here?
Word Church is an organization, not a description. None of the ministries named are affiliated.
Just who or what are we talking about here?
ThaTromboneGuy
New Member
When I say Word Church... I mean Ministries that teach the Word! I mean really teach it! One Scripture & Hocking just isn't enough. Some people have no I dea why they tithe. SOme people don't know why Pastors look for support scripture. All they wanna hear is Hocking and Hoopin'! Thats what I mean.
dacontinent
Preacher
So, use different terminology. When you go to a restaurant that uses Pepsi products, asking for a Coke just doesn't cut it. Church of Christ
Any church whose preaching/teaching ministry is directed by what people "wanna hear" rather than what God wants to say is in danger of His wrath - regardless to what they are teaching, whether they articulate well or hock-n-hoop. The leaders and their ministries must be submitted to God first.
You are correct about tithing and supporting scriptures. You can add things like
- How to love your spouse.
- Parenting your children.
- Holiness.
- Righteousness.
- Integrity.
- Honesting.
- Prayer.
- The necessity of personal Bible study.
- Alms-giving.
- Chastity.
- Sex and sexuality.
- ...
[/list=1]
There are a number of scripture passages that could be used to describe what might look for in a church that focuses on discipling believers through developing the Word through their lives. Here is my single favorite.
(2 Pe 1:3-8)
3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us tob glory and virtue: 4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; 6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; 7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. 8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.