Why the SWAC should NOT worry about the playoffs?


Facilities, I don't think is the issue at UAPB. I think most kids that come to UAPB really come because they have no other choice. Most of UAPB kids do not turn down UA or Ole Miss for UAPB, they come to UAPB because they couldn't go to UA or Ole Miss.

UAPB has enough weights for every player on campus, now they might not have a good trainer, but the weights they have is more than enough. You don't need a high tech room to watch film. All you need is a high end VCR and someone to coach you on how to watch film.

UAPB has put several kids in the pros and its been mostly on the raw talent. Arkansas is very unsual. Most kids in Arkansas grow up wanting to go to UA. Of course, all can't go. Since Arkansas is not a talent hot-bed, many schools overlook the state. If we had better coaching, we could compete better.
 
Da_Sperm said:
If we had better coaching, we could compete better.
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You all were doing real well in the NAIA right before moving to the SWAC. Once in the SWAC early on you all were still doing pretty well and gave some decent S.U. teams some close calls. It just seems like the last couple of years UAPB started regressing. Can you tell us why? Is it that you all became laid back in recruiting? Did the coach become complacent?
 



JROCK said:
You all were doing real well in the NAIA right before moving to the SWAC. Once in the SWAC early on you all were still doing pretty well and gave some decent S.U. teams some close calls. It just seems like the last couple of years UAPB started regressing. Can you tell us why? Is it that you all became laid back in recruiting? Did the coach become complacent?
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You know, kids wanted to play once we got off probation. We had transfers from Texas A&M, Arkansas, and everywhere. That is the reason we went to the NAIA championship game in only our second year after being off probation. That was all Lee Hardman. Hardman was the high school king of coaches in Arkansas. He had several championship rings as a coach on the high school level and sent kids to D1A programs everywhere, mostly to UA. Those kids went to UA and didn't get the playing time and plenty of them came back to play for him.

Once we entered the SWAC, we were still riding high on the success of Hardman's first couple years. He really didn't have to recruit as hard. Kids were still transferring from UA and such to come to Pine Bluff to get playing time (Chris Akins - just got a Super Bowl ring with the Patriots is one of them). Kevin Williams, stud reciever transfered from UA. Basil Shabazz left professional baseball to come play for Hardman. He had an excellent coaching staff. One is the DC for San Jose State now, and he should have been picked to be our current head coach.

That would explain why we were competitive our first few years. We simply had talent that was easy to get, and good coaches. After other schools started picking away our assistant coaches (Valley, San Jose State, etc), it became apparent Hardman didn't know a dayum thing about coaching college football. He was still able to get the talent (UAPB still had 2 or 3 guys drafted each year), but the SWAC had adjusted to him after about 3 or 4 years.
 
Facilities at SU are in serious need for replacement, not repair. No weight room, no locker room, no field house. It's a wonder that any kid comes to Southern to play football. I guess these are the kids who really want that blue and gold uniform or kids who don't have many other options. Whatever it may be, it is definitely not the facilities that attracts them.

The biggest problem with getting alumni to support the university is the fact that by the time a good number (not all, but I would say about 50%) of the students who marticulate at Southern are ready for graduation, all they want to do is get their degrees and get as far away from SU as they can get. A lot of them are angry or very indifferent towards SU policies and administration, although they love the school and the athletic programs. So, for years after graduation, I suspect many of them don't give a nickel until they find Jesus or grow out of that apathy for the school. It took forever for me to get over my experience as a student at SU and only after I matured a great deal did I find peace enough to start giving. I may be the only person here who will admitt it, but I know I am not alone.

If SU wants people to contribute to the program in means other than buying a ticket and paying for parking, then it needs to stop letting graduates leave there with "Southern can go to hell, but I love football" bumper stickers.
 
You know, I don't believe those kids actually understand giving back. It doesn't have anything to do with how you feel on certain policies of your school. Those that donate, buy SEASON TICKETS, pay premium for parking, aren't your recent graduates.

Secondly, what is the job market like in Baton Rouge? In know in Pine Bluff, if you didn't get lucky and get a job teaching, you have no choice but to leave Pine Bluff. What da hell are you going do to do with a college degree in Pine Bluff? If you leave, you ask yourself the question "Is it worth it for me to drive from (Dallas, Memphis, Kansas City, etc) every weekend to support UAPB? The answer is simply NO. It has nothing to do with the program success, it has to do with your POCKET BOOK. I know there are tons of UAPB alum in the DFW metroplex. If we all went to the UAPB home games, we would fill the stands easily with just DFW alum.
 
It is an educational and developmental process that most of our institutions have not place an emphasis on implementing and substaining. Many of our programs have athletic booster groups/athletic endowment programs that are less than ten years old and that have any serious knowledge on what it means to support and positively affect change at our respective universities, especially with regards to the athletic department. It like the saying. Knowing is half the battle.
 
I think it goes deeper than that Sperm. The guys who you mentioned who are not recent graduates of the university came to SU under different circumstances that graduates today. They people who came back in the day probably had very few choices, unlike today. SU has a lot of pre-intergration like procedures that are not student friendly. Find the average SU graduate and ask him why he or she doesn't give back and listens to what comes out of their mouths. Why is it that only people who have been out of school 10 plus years are the ones who are giving back? Its the maturity factor. But that probably 5 good years of alumni funding missed waiting on people to get the bitter taste of the financial aid office, the registrar, and missing student loan checks out of your system.
 
Boy, did somebody hit the nail on the head in regards to SU students into graduates. I graduated in 2001 and I give what I can to SU, but accountability issues up there do curtail what I could give. Too many booster groups wanting funds for this and that. If all of them could get together, SU Athletics would have little problems. BTW, Sperm, I suspect that Baton rouge's job market is better than most other SWAC cities, with the major exception of Houston, which holds one of our largest alumni chapters.

Panthro, come on back .... the panthers are UP.
 
I'm here Jag79.

If you're gonna' sum ours up it has to be a severe lack of support and slow to adjust to change.

A lot of the 'elder' types, if you will, thought the year was still 1952 and that these "superstar" type kids would willingly choose to attend PVU freely (w/out scholarship support) vs another school (w/ scholarship support). Well, that experiment hasn't worked. lol

It's hard for me to put a finger on it now. Of course, everyone will put their best foot forward and say the right things and prolly do all the right things. It has yet to be seen what the results will be (on the gridiron). But trust, it IS a high priority item that I think we've addressed (finally).

Losing and being non-competitive doesn't bode well. :tdown:
 
All right, number three: Prairie View

The history of the only charter member still in the SWAC is great in football. However, if you remember, I said that we would limit this discussion to the last 20 years. W/in this time, PVAMU has dropped off the SWAC football world in record form. I believe 1988 was the big blow with the rule violations. (if a PV person could really explain what happened here, that would be great.) Then, I believe, it really became a trust issue between the PV administration and the PV athletic dept. The lack of full scholarships set this program back in ways they still can't understand. If we were to go through the five characteristics wew used on SU and TxSU, it would not look too good.

(A) Coaching: Of course, this is haevily linked to who the coach was coaching. PV may have had some good guys with great minds for coaching, but when you're working with majority walk-ons, it's hard, especially in Houston. However, some of those coaches, in my opinion, we're not worth a damn. Now, PV has put their faith into Henry Frazier, a former champion player and coach at Bowie State in the CIAA. This looks like the same road SU took in 1993 (Richardson, Winston Salem State). Two differences though. (1) Frazier will have the benefit of full scholarships unlike many of his predecessors. (2) PV is just coming off hiring a new coach last year.

Giving a coach one year is ruthless in my opinion and Frazier is probably going to have to make serious improvements to keep his job or apathy will set in with the PV administration not wanting to continue changing year to year. neither one of these cases is good. Both of these translate into the "samn ol', same ol' " at PVU.

(B) Facilities -- Killer. Blackshear, from what I have been told, is less than some Texas HS stadiums. Granted, from reports, the administration is going to address this next year with a reported 25,000 seat stadium (for who, see next part.) on their campus. However, like TXSU, having Robertson (UH) and Reliant Stadium nearby is a good thing, but you lose the intimacy of forcing another team to hear your fans in their ears and your band in their face.

(C) Fan Base -- Unless it is against TxSU in Houston or Grambling in Dallas, I have yet in my 25 years on earth been able to see a semblance of a fan base. I know they are out there, but they have hiding a concrete seats for a while. Administration and coaching have equal blame with the alumni and students of the university. I understand, as one would say quickly, "In Houston, we have more to do than go to PV football games." True, but don't you think your team needs your azzes there and you can hit the clubs, professional games, etc. either the next day or after the game? But, where's the energy to get them there .... next group

(D) Administration -- Until recently, have dropped the ball on trying to fund and field a constantly competing team and if any of these people are still in your athletic department, pink slip their ass now. For over ten years, they allowed the pride of Houston to overlook them by not offering scholarships, not hire coaches who could work with a little, and not try to promote their football team period. I remember years when PV came to SU, after a period or two, it seemed as if the players no longer cared. I think I know where this attitude originates from. However, somebody has gotten to them. Full scholarships and a new stadium are JUST a starting point. Efforts need to continue on this trail, fast!

(E) Recruiting -- See TxSU for this one, but also read the above statements. If a school's administration and fan base was treating a football team like that, would you really want to be a part of that?

Improvements coming, but in reality, PV is just playing CATCH-UP. Any questions and opinions are welcome ....

Since Sperm hopped in with them, UAPB is on the clock.
 
Panthro said:
What I never understood about SU or GSU for that matter is that w/ the types of gates that I thought y'all were receiving, the facilities really, really lacked. There's no way that porta-potties should've existed anywhere on SU's campus. I do understand that SU fully funds their entire athletic dept primarily based on the incomes of the major generator (football), but still. That's awfully unacceptable.
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All monies generated from the football program doesn't all goes back into the athletic program. Adminstrators has agenda too.
 
BgJag said:
All monies generated from the football program doesn't all goes back into the athletic program. Adminstrators has agenda too.
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Yep. That's what makes it so bad BG. :( That fan base? Those payouts? Should've been a 40K seat stadium (renovated - I know it's possible), new weight room, new dining facility, new coaching quarters, etc. Check this link out: <a href="http://www.unt.edu/mgathletics/GOG/facilities/newathleticcenterfrontpage.htm">Click Here</a>. If ol' funky unt can do it (and they do not have the type following), surely SU or some other "strong" HBCU could do it. SOB! I'll be dayamed! lol I now SEE why unt bought out my daughter's school! They wanted the land across the street to provide for parking for a <b>new football</b> stadium! LMAO! SOB!!!!!!! LMAO!!! :emlaugh: I ain't mad atcha' unt. lol :retard:

Admins seem to be a major part of the problems for us all. :(

79, Blackshear is beneath 2A teams here in terms of facilities. It's been there since 1926(?) methinks and is remedial by today's standards. The new stadium is coming. It's already in the works.

You're most def correct on points.
 
SU Jag 79,

Intriguing Comments!! Keep them coming!!

Prairie View A & M University's athletics program demise is simple to explain when you really get down to it.

Lack of the following:

Leadership,
Planning, and
Commitment

We had none of the above in terms of athletics. Now we have all the above and those that actually follow SWAC athletics closely can view the changes as well as the difference they are making in PVA&MU's athletics program.
 
Sorry for the extensive delay in continuing our look at the SWAC and where we need to be to possibly compete in the 1-AA playoffs if we ever threw our attention there.

This next school took a lot of research and I still don't have all that's needed in my opinion.

The Golden Lions of Arkansas-Pine Bluff: While we are only looking at the football teams here, it has to be noted that since their return to the SWAC, UAPB has been a barren wasteland for SWAC Competitive Athletics. They supplanted Prairie View as the true bottomfeeder of the SWAC and this is evident if you look at the last few Commissioner Cup standings. I believe within the their time here, they have not finished higher than 8th any year. We will touch more on this when we hit the administration and athletic department.

(A) Coaching -- In the NAIA days of Archie Cooley and the last few under Hardman, UAPB was doing great things. They benefitted from the University of Arkansas' attrition and did good things the first few years into the conference. One just needs to remember the first SWAC Overtime game in Baton Rouge (36-33 Southern) to see that they had something. However, the conference caught up to Hardman after a few novice years and ever since then, they have drilled him. The formula has been the same year after year. Start off hard, give Southern a test, and then fad away to battle PVU for last place. Maybe the love for what Hardman did as a HS coach and early at APB clouded their judgement to get a better coach and recruiter sooner. Realistically, Mo Forte may not be the answer either. His past is not littered with championships or anything in my opinion to base any major improvement in the Lions this upcoming year.

(B) Recruiting -- NAIA days were a bit easier, but competing against UA and the rest of the SWAC is hard, especially in the case of D-1A transfers. The masses that came from Arkansas aren't coming as fast anymore. Truthfully, the question has to be asked," Besides an education, what does UAPB have to offer to a football player that other and more established and constantly competiting SWAC schools don't?"

(C) Fan Base -- UAPB shares a problem with Alcorn, MVSU, and Grambling: Small home towns. The fan base has dwindled since the days of Pumphrey Stadium and NAIA fame. While they draw at the Arkansas and Gateway Classic games, which is light by SWAC Classic standards (about 22 to 29,000 average), home games have not fared as well. A stinch of losing in multiple sports cannot help this situation.

(D) Facilities -- This is where I need assistance UAPB'ers. All I know of is Golden Lion Stadium, which is relatively new. I'm not sure of the amentities, but they are probably on average of the conference. However, I have to question one thing about that stadium and I will with Alabama A&M and Alcorn. I understand the want to bring more of your fans out to the game, but why crush and shove the visiting fans into that little matchbox on the other side? Alcorn has the advantage of being a venue that most SWAC fans love to go to because of the atmosphere. AAMu has the advantage of being competitive. What reason could you give for a visiting fan to want to come to Golden Lion Stadium other than to support their team?

(E) Administration/ Athletic Department -- Death Knell for UAPB, seriously. First, why build a 12,500 seat stadium on your campus to compete in the SWAC? the majority of SWAC schools average a 20,000 seat stadium. That a set up for loss revenue. Second, how could you allow Hardman to stay as coach so long? While he competed in the first few years, the best place for UAPB during the re-entry to the SWAC has been FOURTH! Next, the inadequacies of the athletic department are legendary. If it's not the scheduling fiasco twice this year, it's going 0 and forever in basketball. None of your major sports really compete and it has warranted some rumblings as to why UAPB rejoined the SWAc anyway. Lastly, the head coaching fiasco only to wind up with Forte instead of Spears at Grambling and others who wanted this position.

Honestly UAPB'ers and definitely Vinita, how could you possibly have confidence in this? This is by far the SWAC's worst situation all around and this year shows no inkling of changing that.

Questions and comments are welcomed ..... the 'tradition' of Grambling State is next.
 



Diesel said:
The biggest problem with getting alumni to support the university is the fact that by the time a good number (not all, but I would say about 50%) of the students who marticulate at Southern are ready for graduation, all they want to do is get their degrees and get as far away from SU as they can get. A lot of them are angry or very indifferent towards SU policies and administration, although they love the school and the athletic programs. So, for years after graduation, I suspect many of them don't give a nickel until they find Jesus or grow out of that apathy for the school.
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I'll venture to say that this is the attitude across all "HBCUdom." Yeah, I made that word up, but I understand exactly what Diesel is saying here. The sad part is that some of them NEVER grow out of the apathy for the university. They don't support the institutions in any way shape, form or fashion.
 
Da_Sperm said:
You know, kids wanted to play once we got off probation. We had transfers from Texas A&M, Arkansas, and everywhere. That is the reason we went to the NAIA championship game in only our second year after being off probation. That was all Lee Hardman. Hardman was the high school king of coaches in Arkansas. He had several championship rings as a coach on the high school level and sent kids to D1A programs everywhere, mostly to UA. Those kids went to UA and didn't get the playing time and plenty of them came back to play for him.

Once we entered the SWAC, we were still riding high on the success of Hardman's first couple years. He really didn't have to recruit as hard. Kids were still transferring from UA and such to come to Pine Bluff to get playing time (Chris Akins - just got a Super Bowl ring with the Patriots is one of them). Kevin Williams, stud reciever transfered from UA. Basil Shabazz left professional baseball to come play for Hardman. He had an excellent coaching staff. One is the DC for San Jose State now, and he should have been picked to be our current head coach.

That would explain why we were competitive our first few years. We simply had talent that was easy to get, and good coaches. After other schools started picking away our assistant coaches (Valley, San Jose State, etc), it became apparent Hardman didn't know a dayum thing about coaching college football. He was still able to get the talent (UAPB still had 2 or 3 guys drafted each year), but the SWAC had adjusted to him after about 3 or 4 years.
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Sperm, some of that is true and some may not be so true. On the surface that may appear to be the case but the reality boils down to recruiting rules. When you were NAIA, you could play non-qualifiers...you could play kids who went to UA and flunked out....that can't be done in D1AA. That is why Stillman at the D3 level was able to beat TxSo and play and beat a mostly D2 schedule. The same things happened with AAMU in basketball ...the recruiting rules change and so do the caliber of athletes. Hampton went through the same transition. Ironically, we can get better athletes in lower division but not always better "student" athletes.
 
Things are not as good at Grambling State as they should be. Some of the problem stems from a lack of continuity in the upper echelon of our administration. Prez (RWE Jones) was there for seems like a century and his immediate successor Dr. Joseph Johnson was just as great (though he didn't last nearly as long) But during his tenure we had the same stability and maintained the "Dear Ole Grambling" atmosphere. You might wonder what that has to do with athletics. At a small close-knit environment such as GSU, it is very important to have unity from top to bottom.

I have long felt that we found a suitable successor to Coach Robinson as a coach, but so far no one has come close to his savvy and networking skills as an athletic director/athletic fundraiser. I actually think Mr. Robert Piper was well on his way to getting things restored, but his terminal cancer cut short his time as athletic director. No knock on our current AD, but the proof is in the results. We do not place enuff pressure/emphasis on our "other" sports coaches to build a winner and create some revenue in their sports.

Our football program has been restored as evident by the recent three championships in 2K, 2K1, and 2K2. My only desire would be to see more home and home series with out of conference teams of interest. Our local fan base has not been consistent patrons at our games. Upgrading the schedule and (in my opinion) scheduling games for a 3pm start would boost attendance. The relative remoteness of our campus does not bode well for a large contingent of out of town fans. I think a earlier start time makes the game more attractive for visitors for South Louisiana who want to return home after the games.

Our women's basketball team is ok...but that's a far cry from the dominance we experienced in the Pat Bibbs era. Don't know why the drop...Although Ponton did a good job of replacing Coach Bibbs, I not sure if he adequately replaced himself. Men's basketball has undercheived and or deterioated. I'm still having difficulty understanding how GSU can have two 1st team all SWAC
players, and still finish in the middle of the back. This team doesn't have a sence of urgency to compete and win.
 
i say again i say we have to schedule someone other than savannah states and morris browns of the world.you coulD start the game at 10:00 pm as long as you are playing someone that people want to see you play. we can schedule mcneese or georgia southern at 11:ooam and folks will come out . it is the interest in the matchup that makes the average fan come out. i tell people all the time there are two types of fan at most hbcu's . there is the causual fan . my wife is the casual fan . she loves gram but she goes to games like state fair claccis, hc, jackson state, bc. then there is the die hard fan . this is what i am. this fan goes to any and every game and can't get enough of his or her team. if your like me you get up in the morning on saturday and drive to mobile alabama for 7 hours by yourself just to pay $18 to sit in a small stadium for a few hours at a game that the band does not come to and leave right after the game and head back to grambling for another 7 hours.all this is great but there are more casual fans than die hard fans outthere in the hbcu world . we need to appeal to the casual fan interest alot more than we do. we need to stop playing teams we know we can beat cause they pay us some good money to beat them. if you schedule some competition your gate should compensate you.if we could do this and forget about the blood sucking that is 1aa playoffs we would be alright. schedule these schools for out of conference games and whip em so good they will be scared to play us again like they were in hbcu heyday.IT ALL STARTS AND ENDS WITH GOOD SOLID COACHING!!!!!YOU CAN HAVE A TEAM FULL OF ATHLETES AS GRAM HAS OR ANY SWAC SCHOOL HAS NOW BUT NO SENSE OF THE WORD STRATEGY. IF THEY STOP US FROM DOING THIS WE CAN DO THIS INSTEAD !!!!!!!!I DON'T THINK THAT EXISTS AT SOME HBCU'S.COACHES need to have a contingency plan during a game just in case they run up on a team who can play sound defense.IF WE CAN GET QUALITY COACHES WHO ARE NOT TRYING TO BE SOME OF THESE KIDS FRIENDS AND HAVE THE COURAGE TO TELL THEM THEY ARE NOT AS GOOD AS THEY THINK THEY ARE AND HELP THEM GET BETTER AS A PLAYER AND ESPECIALLY AS A MAN BY SETTING THE RIGHT EXAMPLE THE SWAC WILL BE ALRIGHT. BUT AS LONG AS WE HIRE PEOPLE CAUSE THEIR RELATED OR THEY ARE A PLAYERS COACH WE WILL ALWAYS STAY RIGHT WHERE WE ARE NOW AS A CONFERENCE !!!!!!!!!!
 
MikeBigg said:
Things are not as good at Grambling State as they should be. Some of the problem stems from a lack of continuity in the upper echelon of our administration. Prez (RWE Jones) was there for seems like a century and his immediate successor Dr. Joseph Johnson was just as great (though he didn't last nearly as long) But during his tenure we had the same stability and maintained the "Dear Ole Grambling" atmosphere. You might wonder what that has to do with athletics. At a small close-knit environment such as GSU, it is very important to have unity from top to bottom.

I have long felt that we found a suitable successor to Coach Robinson as a coach, but so far no one has come close to his savvy and networking skills as an athletic director/athletic fundraiser. I actually think Mr. Robert Piper was well on his way to getting things restored, but his terminal cancer cut short his time as athletic director. No knock on our current AD, but the proof is in the results. We do not place enuff pressure/emphasis on our "other" sports coaches to build a winner and create some revenue in their sports.

Our football program has been restored as evident by the recent three championships in 2K, 2K1, and 2K2. My only desire would be to see more home and home series with out of conference teams of interest. Our local fan base has not been consistent patrons at our games. Upgrading the schedule and (in my opinion) scheduling games for a 3pm start would boost attendance. The relative remoteness of our campus does not bode well for a large contingent of out of town fans. I think a earlier start time makes the game more attractive for visitors for South Louisiana who want to return home after the games.

Our women's basketball team is ok...but that's a far cry from the dominance we experienced in the Pat Bibbs era. Don't know why the drop...Although Ponton did a good job of replacing Coach Bibbs, I not sure if he adequately replaced himself. Men's basketball has undercheived and or deterioated. I'm still having difficulty understanding how GSU can have two 1st team all SWAC
players, and still finish in the middle of the back. This team doesn't have a sence of urgency to compete and win.
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Dude, with the Grambling name, you all should be able to market yourself and do great fundraising. To not even have a decent bball gym is surprising to me.
 
Tigerpride said:
Sperm, some of that is true and some may not be so true. On the surface that may appear to be the case but the reality boils down to recruiting rules. When you were NAIA, you could play non-qualifiers...you could play kids who went to UA and flunked out....that can't be done in D1AA. That is why Stillman at the D3 level was able to beat TxSo and play and beat a mostly D2 schedule. The same things happened with AAMU in basketball ...the recruiting rules change and so do the caliber of athletes. Hampton went through the same transition. Ironically, we can get better athletes in lower division but not always better "student" athletes.
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Although this is correct, it was not the case with UAPB. UAPB just came off a 2 year probation and everything was done by the book. Hardman players graduated. I think there was a statistic that showed Hardman's team led the SWAC in graduation rates in football. I know he lead the state of Arkansas. Players that came to UAPB were not flunky's from UA, Texas A&M, or OU, they were simply not getting playing time.
 
Tigerpride said:
Dude, with the Grambling name, you all should be able to market yourself and do great fundraising. To not even have a decent bball gym is surprising to me.
Click to expand...

I agree...but you can't live off past reputation and name recognition only. Coca Cola doesn't rest on its laurels or past glories. You see new coke commercials all the time. The reason is (1) retention (2) recruitment. We must retain the fan base that we have but constantly seek to recruit more fans and supporters.

The name is there and the product is good (football) but in the other sports our product is not up to the standards of our name...and that's just the truth!
 
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