Why the SWAC should NOT worry about the playoffs?


SU Jag 79

SU Jag 79

Jaguar ALUM
Point blank, we have too many inept athletic departments who will NOT put any pressure on their football programs to improve their coaching, facilities, ideas, recruiting, and competition.

You probably can lop all of us in with one of those categories, but I will show you how far off most of the conference is. And for the one who started that other thread, YOUR school is right at the top of the list.

Be back soon ....
 



^^^^ You may have a point JState83 ... I'm expected a few myself.

Texas Southern, you're up.

Texas Southern has the advantage that the rest of the SWAC does not: A major recruiting base right in there own backyard.

So can anyone tell me why Texas Southern has not seriously challenged for a SWAC title in years?

I can think of a few reasons:
(A) Athletic director
(B) President Slade
(C) Bill Thomas, former coach
(D) An absent fan base

First, why did it take so long to get rid of Thomas? He took to third place finishes in the West year after year after year. You would think you would get tired of that. Southern, Grambling, and Prairie View had more success recruiting in TxSU's city!

Why no commitment to TxSU football with a (suitable) home stadium on campus? Surely, you could not have thought that basketball would be your SWAC lifeblood.

All right Tigers ... the rest of the SWAC is waiting on YOUR answers .... no smack, just truth please.


(p.s. -- I will definitely get to Southern too if that is what you are thinking.)

Surely a team with these issues could not dent anything in the 1-AA playoffs, right TSF?

Next .... your Houston brothers, PVAMU.
 
SU Jag 79 said:
^^^^ You may have a point JState83 ... I'm expected a few myself.

Texas Southern, you're up.

Texas Southern has the advantage that the rest of the SWAC does not: A major recruiting base right in there own backyard.

So can anyone tell me why Texas Southern has not seriously challenged for a SWAC title in years?

I can think of a few reasons:
(A) Athletic director
(B) President Slade
(C) Bill Thomas, former coach
(D) An absent fan base

First, why did it take so long to get rid of Thomas? He took to third place finishes in the West year after year after year. You would think you would get tired of that. Southern, Grambling, and Prairie View had more success recruiting in TxSU's city!

Why no commitment to TxSU football with a (suitable) home stadium on campus? Surely, you could not have thought that basketball would be your SWAC lifeblood.

All right Tigers ... the rest of the SWAC is waiting on YOUR answers .... no smack, just truth please.


(p.s. -- I will definitely get to Southern too if that is what you are thinking.)

Surely a team with these issues could not dent anything in the 1-AA playoffs, right TSF?

Next .... your Houston brothers, PVAMU.
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The reason I think Texas Sothern hasn't won a SWAC title in football is due to TSU not being in the football business. I think Coach Thomas did the best he could do with what he had to work with. Facilities are one of the biggest reasons; we just don't have them. When I say facilities, i'm not just talking about a football stadium.

To come to the school’s defense regarding why we don't have a football stadium is Texas Southern is located in a major city. There is no vacant land surrounding our campus. Average land surrounding Texas Southern cost approximately $7.00 per sq. ft. (a very generous estimate) To purchase a lot having 8,000 sq.ft. @ $7.00 per sq. ft. equals $56,000.00 for a single lot. When you add the improvement on the lot you're looking at over $100,000.00 easy just for one property.

Another reason is our administration, I don't have confidence in our administration to make the necessary changes to improve our athletic department. The athletic department at TSU is not being marketed properly and has not been marketed properly in years. Like most HBCU's our administration don't understand how important the sports information department is to the school's athletic department. Therefore, our sports information department has been one of the worst since Jason Jenkins went to work for the San Francisco 49ers. Before Jason arrived at TSU our sports information department wasn't any better than it is today.

I don't think Texas Southern has done a bad job of competing in the SWAC. In the last five years, TSU have contended for the SWAC West Championship at least four of the five years.

If you take a look at the top schools in the SWAC (GSU, SU, JSU, and Alabama A&M) in recent years, TSU has closed the gap considerable. The days of blowing TSU out is a thing of the pass in recent years. We've had some problems with Grambling during the Doug era, but some of our games against GSU have not been decided until late in the fourth quarter. In the past five years we've given Southern all they could handle in four of the five last years. For whatever reason Southern has found away to win late in the fourth quarter. In our last two meeting with Jackson St. we have split. The game last year wasn't decided until the last two minutes in the fourth quarter. Since Alabama A&M has joined the SWAC, I believe they have had our number. But, I think every game was close except for the game last year.

With all the problems in our athletic department we still manage to be competitive to the so call elite in the SWAC. Therefore, I know some of the schools in the SWAC are not as great as their fans may think they are.

Since you’re not going in any logical order regarding picking schools for your topic, what’s wrong with Southern going next?
 
I like the premise of this and hopefully related followup threads. Hope we can keep them isolated to the team being discussed...i.e. no retailations (Wait til it's their turn) lol!

Good comments on TxSU but program has been less than it should since program founded. Intermittent success ain't gonna get it. TxSU hasn't won a football championship since the 60's. That's pathetic, especially given the
talent pool in your recruiting area. I think it hurt you playing some DII programs and even losing to them. You can't recruit Texas High school talent by losing to D2 schools.

As with all of HBCU's, you guys need to improve your facilities in order to improve recruiting. I think you have hired a coach that can build a successful program at TxSU. I just don't think Howard and the East Coast was a really good fit for him. Once he gets situated, I expect him to get the players (from Texas) as well as some East coast teams to play.

If I was your coach, I'd demand my AD to upgrade the competition on my schedule. I would seek a two year arrangement to play in the Gateway Glassic against UAPB, make their Houston matchup with GSU and SU (alternate years) a "classic" and play it in Reliant Stadium. My out of conference opponents would be rotated between Howard, TnState, FAMU.
These moves and schedule updates would help your recruiting. You have a major city to attract students too and also promise your locals a chance to visit other major cities. A winning record against this type schedule would make TxSU a force in BCF.
 
MikeBigg said:
IAs with all of HBCU's, you guys need to improve your facilities in order to improve recruiting.
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BINGO!!! That's why I'm very comfortable with the direction JSU is headed. For all the misery that Bell has on the field, he has shown that he is one of hell of an administrator in getting things done off the field. Facilities upgrades have been tremendous. And that may have been part of the problem for players. They had more perks last year than ANY JSU team has ever had. And it's getting better and better for them. When they get back for the summer, they'll see yet another improvement to the football complex that they didn't have before. New recruits are about to be out of excuses regarding facilities at JSU.

ALL of us must improve our facilities. Take away the excuses of your recruits. It don't have to be as big as the big boys, but it can still be just as nice.
 
CLeb, and some of you that I have personally had discussions with are making a difference at your schools. To be successful, we must have more alums to take an active role in moving our schools forward. Once getting involved, we have a better understanding of what it will take to move our schools to the next level. Just because some schools have a history of winning championships they still have many issues to solve in improving the SWAC as a whole. It is easy to identify those who are merely full of talk and not involved in their school. I mentioned GR and Robber wearing polo shirts and becoming involved with their coach last year, but in reality the direct involvement with the program is a plus. I see many changes in the attitudes of our fans because the majority of our fans can see progress in our program. People around here are excited about the upcoming season and that is the kind of excitement we want to bring to the SWAC.

We must continue to look for improvements that will help our programs because the SWAC is BCF and when we talk about the SWAC, we are talking about our member schools, therefore we have to work together in improving all the things that we think are wrong.
 
y'all are right. i think iron is iron i don't care how it looks it still weights.casem and gordon and robinson did not have 4 star weight rooms either. i understand nice stuff but live within your means don't try to turn it into a arms race . when you don't win you will have a problem. do the best you can with what you can.
 
The problem in most places is $$$.

I did some figuring last season and discovered that approximately 350,000 people (I know many were duplicates) attended SU games last year. About 250,000 of those were Southern fans.

If each of these people gave $5 to the program, that would be $1.25 million. Like I said, I realize some folks made multiple games, but all 13 would be a measly $65 donation.

Supporting your program is more than just buying a ticket. Join a booster club and help raise money. Encourage others to do the same. We don't have the luxury of having million dollar donors. We need to get everybody giving a little.

If there were more booster support, the ticket price increase would not have been necessary, or at least not as drastic.
 
Robber said:
BINGO!!! That's why I'm very comfortable with the direction JSU is headed. For all the misery that Bell has on the field, he has shown that he is one of hell of an administrator in getting things done off the field. Facilities upgrades have been tremendous. And that may have been part of the problem for players. They had more perks last year than ANY JSU team has ever had. And it's getting better and better for them. When they get back for the summer, they'll see yet another improvement to the football complex that they didn't have before. New recruits are about to be out of excuses regarding facilities at JSU.

ALL of us must improve our facilities. Take away the excuses of your recruits. It don't have to be as big as the big boys, but it can still be just as nice.
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As long as you keep Bell as coach recruits will not need any other excuses on not signing with JSU. He was easily the worst coach in the conference last year. `
 
Robber said:
......

ALL of us must improve our facilities. Take away the excuses of your recruits. It don't have to be as big as the big boys, but it can still be just as nice.
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This is so true.

PNeck019 said:
The problem in most places is $$$.

I did some figuring last season and discovered that approximately 350,000 people (I know many were duplicates) attended SU games last year. About 250,000 of those were Southern fans.

If each of these people gave $5 to the program, that would be $1.25 million. Like I said, I realize some folks made multiple games, but all 13 would be a measly $65 donation.

Supporting your program is more than just buying a ticket. Join a booster club and help raise money. Encourage others to do the same. We don't have the luxury of having million dollar donors. We need to get everybody giving a little.

If there were more booster support, the ticket price increase would not have been necessary, or at least not as drastic.
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:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

Thank you. This is basically what I have been saying. In a sense we need to copy what our counterparts (grads and fans) at the big schools do. I hate using those words. But more support on our part can mean more wins by our teams.
 
enswaclopedia said:
As long as you keep Bell as coach recruits will not need any other excuses on not signing with JSU. He was easily the worst coach in the conference last year. `
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You have no clue. But this ain't about Bell. And even if it things don't get no better with Bell, and he does get fired, woe be unto you when the next coach comes in. He'll be easily stepping into the best situation in I-AA. If Bell ain't doing it for himself, he's setting somebody up for MAJOR success.
 
SU Jag 79 said:
Point blank, we have too many inept athletic departments who will NOT put any pressure on their football programs to improve their coaching, facilities, ideas, recruiting, and competition.

You probably can lop all of us in with one of those categories, but I will show you how far off most of the conference is. And for the one who started that other thread, YOUR school is right at the top of the list.

Be back soon ....
Click to expand...


well, that is the first time i have heard a Jaguar offer a more logical reason for not playing in the playoffs than the usual (i'm weary of hearing about the Bayou Classic as if they still wont make the same money if not more if they move it up a week...)

interesting discussion....
 
enswaclopedia said:
As long as you keep Bell as coach recruits will not need any other excuses on not signing with JSU. He was easily the worst coach in the conference last year. `
Click to expand...

Bell only has a three year contract, so he will be gone (if) he hasn't turned it around by the end of his current contract...

But I agree with Robber, in terms of the facility upgrade future impact. Jackson has been able to attract talent and will do even more with the improvements. During a conversation with SU's Cliff Lewis, he stated that Joe Paterno said that players signed based on these three factors (in order):

1. Facilities 2. How soon they will get playing time 3. Tradition/Winning records.
 



MikeBigg said:
1. Facilities 2. How soon they will get playing time 3. Tradition/Winning records.
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I would think that applies to those atheletes that have a choice of the Penn States, Michigans, Florida, Notre Dames, and what nots. I'm sure that order changes once you get on our level.
 
Da_Sperm said:
I would think that applies to those atheletes that have a choice of the Penn States, Michigans, Florida, Notre Dames, and what nots. I'm sure that order changes once you get on our level.
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I wouldn't think it would change... kids are impressed with weight rooms, meeting rooms, training /treatment rooms during their visits. They want to know that they have an "opportunity" to improve and "get ready" during their freshman year in anticipation of instant playing time.
 
Sperm, the order doesn't change, believe me. Anybody remember Sampson and Johnese from Redemptorist and Broadmoor in Baton Rouge? Both were heavily recruited by SU and both buffed SU for Northwestern State. Playing time had something to do with it, but that nice fieldhouse right behind Turpin Stadium probably had MORE to do with their decision.

Oh TSF, I heard your request. Fine, let's do Southern next.
 
hassan said:
well, that is the first time i have heard a Jaguar offer a more logical reason for not playing in the playoffs than the usual (i'm weary of hearing about the Bayou Classic as if they still wont make the same money if not more if they move it up a week...)

interesting discussion....
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Thanx Hassan. BTW, they are still a bunch of worthless crap, but that's not for this discussion. ;)
 
I started this so I will definitely hone in on my alma mater hard on this one.

Southern University has an advantage that other SWAC schools do not too: A major D1-A school in the same city (some would also argue that it is our disadvantage.). Kids who come to BR get to see LSU and the big time atmosphere and some would rather NOT be a part of that. Then, they see a SU with good programs and possibly an opportunity to play earlier than at LSU and voila .... you have a program that has been dominant for the last few years.

Good things:

(A) Coaching has NOT been an issue at Southern since 1993. The stability in that is worth a lot. Richardson has a set way in doing things and those who have went against that (Bates, Jabari Greeene, Shannon Smith, etc.) have felt his wrath.

(B) Fan base -- they come to Huntsville, Indianapolis, Jackson, las Vegas, and New Orleans. Without a doubt, the best fan base in the conference. However, we don't give to our university, as most HBCU fan bases don't. We, in my opinion, have "minor" excuses not to do so, but we are coming around slowly.

(C) Recruiting -- this is the first shaky spot for SU. While Richardson has done good jobs here, HE has not done a great job here. Early, assists like Kaiss and Singletary did the major work. They netted guys like Troy Williams, Terrence Levy, Channing Warner, Ricky Arvie and Demarcus Miller. In recent years, that brand has reduced some, but the staff continues to pick up gems in Peoples, Vernon, Jarmaul george, Lenny Williams, Breck Ackley and of course this year's duo of Alfred Newman and Gerald Landry.

(D) Facilities -- This is where the rest of the SWAC starts to catch up to SU. There are better stadiums at AAMU, Alcorn, and even though they aren't bigger, UAPB and Grambling. Once we head to the locker rooms and training facilities, we dip below the above and others. To really take control of this conference, SU would have to do major improvements in this area. Seriously, once this is done and with the recent news about our expansion, it's starting, no one in the conference SHOULD be able to hang with SU.

(E) Administration -- The other spot where SU falters before everyone else. Granted, we are not to the levels of TxSU, PV, UAPB,and Valley (no offense guys, just truth), major improvements are needed. Our adminstration waits and is better "reactors" than "proactors". It took almost five year to get this bond issue off the ground and it has been cut down from an original 150 million dollars. The ways that we schedule football games is atrocious and keeping fans informed through the SID's office, although not K.Manns fault, is below standard. They placed a press box, while sorely needed, over the needs of the very people anyone in that stadium is coming to watch: the student-athletes.

So why does SU continue to roll? The top three outweigh the bottom two. Simple as that. If the bottom two get in order, there is no telling what could be in store for this conference.

Throw all your SU questions and opinion out there .... PVAMU, you're still next.
 
SU Jag 79 said:
(C) Recruiting -- this is the first shaky spot for SU. While Richardson has done good jobs here, HE has not done a great job here. Early, assists like Kaiss and Singletary did the major work. They netted guys like Troy Williams, Terrence Levy, Channing Warner, Ricky Arvie and Demarcus Miller. In recent years, that brand has reduced some, but the staff continues to pick up gems in Peoples, Vernon, Jarmaul george, Lenny Williams, Breck Ackley and of course this year's duo of Alfred Newman and Gerald Landry.

(D) Facilities -- This is where the rest of the SWAC starts to catch up to SU. There are better stadiums at AAMU, Alcorn, and even though they aren't bigger, UAPB and Grambling. Once we head to the locker rooms and training facilities, we dip below the above and others. To really take control of this conference, SU would have to do major improvements in this area. Seriously, once this is done and with the recent news about our expansion, it's starting, no one in the conference SHOULD be able to hang with SU.
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C & D goes hand in hand, but the adminstration doesn't seem to get it.
 
Some candid observations...SU recruiting took a downturn for a moment (immediately after Kaiss). Pete can coach talent...and Pete does a good job of getting his players to compete consistently. However, his depth sometimes let him down when injuries hit some front line guys. He came in and worked wonders with the talent on hand and initially got some good but not great recruits. He augmented that talent with some D1 transfers that really panned out (Steve Wofford, Jacoby, Sharp---to some extent---Haynes) but injuries and attrution from props and D1's that didn't get eligible caused him to stumble for the three year period that Grambling won the league crown. But Pete was successful against Grambling 2 0f those 3 years and was able to break the GSU's streak. That gave a boost to this year's recruiting in state. Updated facilities will help in this area also.

At one time, the SU schedule makers must have lost their minds. At one time, they had Pete on the road for most of the opening month of the season. For two of those years the opener was with D1 Tulane as well as some competitive Northwestern teams, and playoff participant FAMU. The jags didn't fare very well in the latter games of these series and that also hurt recruiting.
 
I will also add that at one time athletes (and student's in general) came to Southern because we were Southern, that's it, did not need much recruiting or anything else. Just wait for them them to come. Well, those days are over, but we still have too many people that operate with that mindset.
 
Over the past ten years Southern's football team has been one of the best in the SWAC. The average attendance for their home games are approximately 25,000 to 30,000 per game. I think we can all agree money plays a large part in having a successful football program. For the money Southern's football program bring in do Southern Fans and SWAC fans believe SU is getting a good return on the money they bring in as far as out of conference wins?
 
I'll start w/ TSU. From what I gather, TSU had some very talented teams. No coaching. Even when Highsmith was there, there was a LOT of suspect playcalling/schemes. Those teams (particularly 2 of those years) shouldn've lost a single game. :tdown: Even recently, I think that was Thomas' problem as well. Talent but no stolid coaching/schemes. But still, the 'upper' echelon of talent that lives in and around Houston shouldn've gotten away from TSU. But, w/ the reality of 5 major I-A schools w/in a 150 mile radius, well... Not to mention the numerous other I-AAers, JUCOs, Div IIers, et al competition is fierce. It's hard enough to recruit against the gazillion schools in Texas but throw in the other I-Aers/I-AAers/Div IIers/ et al and you're gonna' find it hard to survive the recruitment war.

Winning equates $$$$$ and that's what SU did over the period of the 90s. I think that MOST successful programs will attribute that to their success. What I never understood about SU or GSU for that matter is that w/ the types of gates that I thought y'all were receiving, the facilities really, really lacked. There's no way that porta-potties should've existed anywhere on SU's campus. I do understand that SU fully funds their entire athletic dept primarily based on the incomes of the major generator (football), but still. That's awfully unacceptable. Coaching? Pete CONSTANTLY has his staff ready and the players too. Can't deny the job that he and his staff have done over the last 10 or so years. Recruitment? SU competes and wins on the field so I don't see a problem there. SU's had the horses over the last 10 or so years to get it done so something is "right" w/ respect to talent that's on the field.

As for PV? Well... I'm going to be tight lipped until this fall where I can then see the results of what all of this new "funding" was supposed to do. lol One thing is certain and guaranteed:

1) We will build a NEW state of the art football arena on campus next year (allegedly) that will have some great facilities.
2) We offer the max scholarship amts for football, men's bball, women's vball(?), women's bball(?). Any other sport levels, bf will know for sure.
3) We (alumni) desire to be where our forefathers were w/ respect to PV athletics. Dominant. :tup: We have a fan base, considering, that's WAITING in the lulls for a winner. Bandwagoneers? I like to refer to them as dormant.

What is concerning to me is this 'view' that those who are not in the know have. lol Most of us who are 'decently' close to the program know. But, we can't gauge it until we compete. Time will tell if everything pays off. One year turnarounds aren't a miracle anymore. Mr. Frazier and his staff will have us <b>ready</b> for play. :tup:
 
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