Why the I-AA playoffs are joke for SWAC schools ...

[GSUperTiger]

Trivia question answer(s): LSU and Southern California

If the playoffs are such a losing proposition, why is it that only the SWAC and Ivy League do not participate? IMO, the Ivy is too pompous and think they're above it. The MEAC is an HBCU conference as well, and they embrace the playoffs.

Is the SWAC that enlightened that it takes a leadership role in forgoing the playoffs? Funny that most people here take that opinion and applaud the conference not pursuing the playoffs, but ridicule and b!tch about nearly every other thing the league office does.

Is SWAC leadership morons for everything else and genius for not wanting to go to the playoffs?

Reread previous posts...when has the SWAC been rewarded for a stellar season? The only reward is a trip to Boise, ID. There obviously is a limit to commissoner's office incompetence. Having some degree of buisness acumen is not rocket science. BCF has options; the other conferences do not. Living away from the South, I really got a chance to understand the appeal of the Bayou Classic (in terms of non BCF fans watching it). The BC has too many superlatives for an other alternative. BCF has all the fans; therefore power and money. Until the NCAA caters to the SWAC, I hope Grambling stays put. I know Grambling can compete with the best in D-IAA. Why get pimped for a foregone conclusion?

...playing in the Division I-AA championship does not include a guaranteed payout. In fact, the revenues go back to the NCAA's general fund, not to the game participants or the 16 playoff qualifiers.

All SWAC teams gain is an all expense paid trip to the game, and the SWAC is bringing all the fans. Playoffs are a fool's choice. Change the aforementioned, then we are speaking a new ballgame.

 

[SAME OLD G]

Trivia question answer(s): LSU and Southern California

Wrong!

The answer is that there is no official NCAA champion for Division 1-A. LSU and USC were BCS National Champions not NCAA national champions. There is a difference. In the past we have had UPI and AP national champions, and in some years we have had 2 different school listed as national champs.

Go to the NCAA website and see if you can find a list of past D-1A football champions. I doubt you will find one, but I am willing to bet you can find one for all other divisions.

 

[Lewis]

If the playoffs are such a losing proposition, why is it that only the SWAC and Ivy League do not participate? IMO, the Ivy is too pompous and think they're above it. The MEAC is an HBCU conference as well, and they embrace the playoffs.

Is the SWAC that enlightened that it takes a leadership role in forgoing the playoffs? Funny that most people here take that opinion and applaud the conference not pursuing the playoffs, but ridicule and b!tch about nearly every other thing the league office does.

Is SWAC leadership morons for everything else and genius for not wanting to go to the playoffs?

The answer to your question is if the PWC did not go to the playoffs, they would not have anything to do after the regular season. The NCAA provides them the 1AA playoffs because they sure don't want them trying to stick there hands in that 1A bowl money, So they give them these worthless arse playoffs. Let's say 2 PWC conferences tried something like the SWAC Championship Game. DO you think it would draw 30,000 fans, even 20,000 fans. No way. The championship game of them playoffs don't even draw that. They really have no choice, we do. The Ivy leauge can use their attitude as an excuse for not going and losing money.

Now some of our own are sold on the fact that we are not accomplishing anything until we go beat the white boys. They will always be stuck on whatever they are doing. But if you can get over that, you can easily see we can built something that is better for US, than what they have. And even the (non)genuises running the SWAC can see that.

 

[Ralph]

Wrong!
...Go to the NCAA website and see if you can find a list of past D-1A football champions. I doubt you will find one, but I am willing to bet you can find one for all other divisions.

Check National Poll Champions and BOWL COALITION, ALLIANCE AND BOWL CHAMPIONSHIP SERIES HISTORY in the NCAA record book. That's I-A fer ya, the best championships money can buy.

http://ncaa.org/library/records/football_records_book/2003/2003_football_records_book.pdf

 

[MikeBigg]

Trivia question answer(s): LSU and Southern California

If the playoffs are such a losing proposition, why is it that only the SWAC and Ivy League do not participate? IMO, the Ivy is too pompous and think they're above it. The MEAC is an HBCU conference as well, and they embrace the playoffs.

Is the SWAC that enlightened that it takes a leadership role in forgoing the playoffs? Funny that most people here take that opinion and applaud the conference not pursuing the playoffs, but ridicule and b!tch about nearly every other thing the league office does.

Is SWAC leadership morons for everything else and genius for not wanting to go to the playoffs?

PNeck,

I think that the other teams (non-SWAC) participate in the playoffs because they do not have the appeal to play in a Classic. Even the MEAC schools are not huge draws in Classic games not including the SWAC. The lone exception (to my knowledge) is the Orange Blossom Classic between Bethune & FAMU. This is not meant as a knock against the MEAC, but the SWAC conference has traditionally been the King of the Classics.

 

[JROCK]

PNeck,

I think that the other teams (non-SWAC) participate in the playoffs because they do not have the appeal to play in a Classic. Even the MEAC schools are not huge draws in Classic games not including the SWAC. The lone exception (to my knowledge) is the Orange Blossom Classic between Bethune & FAMU. This is not meant as a knock against the MEAC, but the SWAC conference has traditionally been the King of the Classics.

MB,

There are two classics that the MEAC participate in that should be noted:

Florida Classic (BCC & FAMU)
Atlanta Classic ( TNST & FAMU)

The Orange Blossom Classic was once a marquee event. Most people could not even tell you if it is played every year now.

I concur with your perspective that the SWAC is the "King of Classics."

 

[PNeck019]

I agree with your position on the SWAC and its classics. You may also note that I have never been a proponent of moving the Bayou Classic.

I'm not aware, however, of any classics being played after the Bayou Classic. Would the playoffs being moved back a week change any of your positions?

Another question, and I'm asking for honesty here. Does anyone think that your positions would be different had the SWAC had some success in the playoffs? Say a title or two, a couple of finals appearances, regular trips to the quarters or semis?

 

[Da_Sperm]

First of all, you can't ask the entire country to put the playoff on hold just until the end of the BC. Why would the playoff even consider waiting until the BC is over before it starts? What if both SU and GSU were both winless, then the game simply doesn't matter?

Either the SWAC make teams move their games or simply stay out of the playoffs. But until the SWAC does participate in the playoffs, being the SWAC champions simply means you are the best team in the SWAC, that's it.

 

[Jafus (Thinker)]

First of all we need to understand the SWAC and NCAA in regards to the NCAA Division I AA Playoffs.

The SWAC still has the opportunity to participate in the NCAA Division I AA playoffs. Currently we have not had teams with significant winning records along with quality wins outside of Grambling State University and Southern University to earn a bid to the NCAA Division I AA Playoffs. Every other program in the SWAC outside of Alabama State University, Grambling State University and Southern University have best of both worlds.

At the beginning of the season the other 7 SWAC teams have the opportunity to play of the SWAC Championship and if they do not win their division out right the still have the opportunity with enough significant and quality wins to gain and at-large bid to participate in the NCAA Division I AA Playoffs and play for the National Championship.

 

[PNeck019]

First of all we need to understand the SWAC and NCAA in regards to the NCAA Division I AA Playoffs.

The SWAC still has the opportunity to participate in the NCAA Division I AA playoffs. Currently we have not had teams with significant winning records along with quality wins outside of Grambling State University and Southern University to earn a bid to the NCAA Division I AA Playoffs. Every other program in the SWAC outside of Alabama State University, Grambling State University and Southern University have best of both worlds.

At the beginning of the season the other 7 SWAC teams have the opportunity to play of the SWAC Championship and if they do not win their division out right the still have the opportunity with enough significant and quality wins to gain and at-large bid to participate in the NCAA Division I AA Playoffs and play for the National Championship.

You are correct, sir. I'm sure you'll recall Alabama A&M lobbying to get into the playoffs last season.

 

[Jafus (Thinker)]

PNeck019,

You are correct, sir. I'm sure you'll recall Alabama A&M lobbying to get into the playoffs last season.

Thank you and exactly. Consider a couple of things. I believe with Jacksonville winning the OVC last season. If it was not for a late 4th quarter collapse and Alabama A & M goes ahead a prevails over the Jacksonville State. I believe Alabama A & M University would have had a serious chance of actually gaining an at-large bid. We just need our other eight programs to step-up quit allowing two programs to dominate the conference and win many of their respective non-conference games. Once this becomes the case will have SWAC programs participating in both the SWAC Championship Game and the NCAA Division I AA Playoffs.

 

[SU Jag 79]

First of all we need to understand the SWAC and NCAA in regards to the NCAA Division I AA Playoffs.

The SWAC still has the opportunity to participate in the NCAA Division I AA playoffs. Currently we have not had teams with significant winning records along with quality wins outside of Grambling State University and Southern University to earn a bid to the NCAA Division I AA Playoffs. Every other program in the SWAC outside of Alabama State University, Grambling State University and Southern University have best of both worlds.

At the beginning of the season the other 7 SWAC teams have the opportunity to play of the SWAC Championship and if they do not win their division out right the still have the opportunity with enough significant and quality wins to gain and at-large bid to participate in the NCAA Division I AA Playoffs and play for the National Championship.

Thank YOU!

Finally, somebody else comes out and says what many GSU and SU people have been saying for years .... if the rest of you would nut up and win some games, we would have representation in these piss-poor playoffs that need to be revamped financially before I would allow my alma mater to play in them (if I had the power)

 

[Ralph]

PNeck019,
Thank you and exactly. Consider a couple of things. I believe with Jacksonville winning the OVC last season. If it was not for a late 4th quarter collapse and Alabama A & M goes ahead a prevails over the Jacksonville State. I believe Alabama A & M University would have had a serious chance of actually gaining an at-large bid. We just need our other eight programs to step-up quit allowing two programs to dominate the conference and win many of their respective non-conference games. Once this becomes the case will have SWAC programs participating in both the SWAC Championship Game and the NCAA Division I AA Playoffs.

GPI Overall and Composite Rank - Conference (GPI Total)

1. BSC (25.85)
2. GFC (27.91)
3. A10 (35.53)
4. SLC (43.46)
5. Ivy (50.73)
6. PL (52.23)
7. SoCon (53.18)
8. Indep (57.72)
9. OVC (62.86)
10. MEAC (74.23)
11. SWAC (75.90)
12. BSouth (82.26)
13. PFL (88.80)
14. NEC (94.46)
15. MAAC (102.55)

Ohio Valley (62.86)
GPI Overall and Composite Rank - School (GPI Total)
26. Jacksonville St (32.39)
42. E Kentucky (44.01)
46. Samford (49.05)
55. Tennessee St (57.88)
60. SE Missouri St (59.82)
76. E Illinois (73.18)
82. Murray St (76.06)
86. Tennessee Tech (80.28)
102. Tenn Martin (93.09)

Southwestern (75.90)
GPI Overall and Composite Rank - School (GPI Total)
27. Southern Univ (32.80)
41. Grambling (43.87)
59. Alabama A&M (59.77)
69. Alabama St (67.07)
75. Alcorn St (71.49)
91. TX Southern (84.85)
97. Ark Pine Bluff (91.10)
103. Jackson St (94.29)
112. MS Valley St (101.63)
122. Prairie View (112.16)

The point is Jacksonville State would not have made the playoffs last year without the OVC autobid.
(Source: 2003 Gridiron Power Index)

 

[EB]

First of all, you can't ask the entire country to put the playoff on hold just until the end of the BC. Why would the playoff even consider waiting until the BC is over before it starts? What if both SU and GSU were both winless, then the game simply doesn't matter?

Either the SWAC make teams move their games or simply stay out of the playoffs. But until the SWAC does participate in the playoffs, being the SWAC champions simply means you are the best team in the SWAC, that's it.

I agree. I have said something somewhat similar to this. Consider that the playoffs last into mid to late December. I do not think that the NCAA will move the playoffs for the Bayou Classic.

 

[Jafus (Thinker)]

Ralph,

I am well aware that Jacksonville State would not have gotten into the playoffs without the OVC automatic bid. But, Jacksonville State did win the OVC Championship. I was only given my opinion that it would have been difficult for the NCAA to leave out an 9-3 Alabama A&M University football program after the way things fell into place at the end of the season last year. It is only an example that the SWAC still participates in the NCAA Playoffs and has the ability to gain an at-large bid in those same Playoffs. They just have to position themselves to earn those bids.

EB,

I agree. I have said something somewhat similar to this. Consider that the playoffs last into mid to late December. I do not think that the NCAA will move the playoffs for the Bayou Classic.

Just because the NCAA will not move the Playoffs, does not mean that they should not move the Playoffs.

 

[PNeck019]

I agree. I have said something somewhat similar to this. Consider that the playoffs last into mid to late December. I do not think that the NCAA will move the playoffs for the Bayou Classic.

Like I said before, it wouldn't just be for the Bayou Classic, although SWAC fans could pad their egos by saying it would be...lol

Actually, several PWCs that already participate in the playoffs would favor moving them back a week. The first round traditionally has the worst attendance due to the holiday weekend, students being off campus, etc.

Some people have complained that it would put the championship game in the Christmas season. So what? It would only affect two teams, and there are bowls going on at that time, so it's not like there are no college football players missing Christmas with momma.

 

[Paul Dolemite Taylor]

They won't move the playoffs for the classic but they sure want the fans that a grambling or southern would bring or atleast the interest.i think the ncaa just wants to pimp the swac and meac for their fans and entertainment value. i say bring back the black college super bowl known as the heritage bowl and let's make money like we can.we can still play these pwc's in the regular season. i still think we as swac and meac schools need to reaffirm that fear they (pwc ) had of playing us that has fading away recently.as for the playoffs i say screw em.we make money not loose money. we just need to whoop em in these non conference games first.

 

[MACHIAVELLI]

Since this again is a hot topic.

 

[Jafus (Thinker)]

The NCAA will not move the play-offs back a week. The BCS member institutions have to much power and influence at the NCAA Division I Football Committee level to allow for the NCAA Division I AA Playoffs to move to far into the Division I A Bowl picture in regards to broadcasting exposure and contractual negotiation factors.

 

[thedesr]

I have a different prospective on this whole issue. I think the SWAC should abandon the idea of the playoffs. The SWAC officials should consider making the confernce a Division I-A conference. We have the fan base to meet the NCAA requirements. We could recruit Tennesse State and
FAMU along with us. Also, if the SWAC become an I-A conference, we could meet the mandated scheduled 6 I-A games every year. Our teams could also play other major I-A teams oustside the conference. BY being a I-A conference, we could work with sponsors to establish I-A bowl games for our conference. Also, our teams will have the possibilty of being invited to other NCAA bowl games. Black College Football is a very hot commodity. In my opinion, we are leveraging the rewards and benefits from it. I would like to hear other thoughts on this idea.

I really like your idea!!!!!!!!!!!! Do it as a conference..... Nice Thought... :jump:

 

[PNeck019]

I really like your idea!!!!!!!!!!!! Do it as a conference..... Nice Thought... :jump:

Very few, if any, SWAC schools have the money for this. You can't just say, "I'm I-A." You have to give more scholarships, upgrade facilities, enlarge stadiums, have more sports for males and females, etc.

 

[EB]

Last year LSU was the BCS champion while USC was the AP or UPI champ. The BCS championship game was the Sugar Bowl.

 

[JaguarNation99]

Very few, if any, SWAC schools have the money for this. You can't just say, "I'm I-A." You have to give more scholarships, upgrade facilities, enlarge stadiums, have more sports for males and females, etc.

This is very true, few schools in the conference have either the financial or fan support to maintain a I-A status. Some of the I-A requirements include: Averaging 15,000 in attendance; playing at least 60 percent of games against I-A teams including at least 4 home games against I-A opponents, this increases to 5 home games in two years; sponsoring a minimum of 16 varsity sports, including a minimum of 8 all-female teams and 6 all male or mixed (male and female) teams, all while satisfying Title IX requirements; a minimum of 90 percent (76.5) of a maximum 85 football scholarships and 200 total athletic scholarships or $4 million in scholarships must be given annually. I'm not sure if the 30,000 permanent seat stadium requirement is still intact.

 

[Bartram]

Participating in the I-AA playoffs doesn't make sense for historically black colleges. Here's why:

The marginal Division I-A schools that have moved up from I-AA status -- thinking now of the 1987 I-AA champion Northeast Louisiana (now ULM), which destroyed Alcorn State 78-27 in the 1992 playoffs -- have done so SPECIFICALLY because there is no money to be made in the post season at that level. They do it because these predominantly white colleges don't have the instant draw of a "classic" game.

So, a secondary contest like the New Orleans Bowl -- which ULM would be invited to in the Sun Belt, where it to ever not suck at the I-A level -- is more lucrative than any combined revenues from the I-AA playoffs (assuming, of course, they got a home game.)

Even the championship game is suspect. It's not a I-AA "bowl." They hold it in ... Chattanooga. Not exactly New Orleans. The game has averaged 12,000 to 13,000 people over the past few years.

In keeping, small (that means cash-strapped) schools like those in Grambling can scarcely afford to abandon the payday of a Bayou Classic in favor of the so-called "respect." Respect from whom? Everybody knows about USC and LSU, but can you name the current I-AA champion??? Most I-AA teams who are so-called names are simply scheduled patsys for the BCS powerhouses.

The SWAC, meanwhile, is the only conference to win a I-AA attendance crown since the NCAA began naming attendance leaders in 1978. Keeping it at home only makes sense.

Here's a look at what winning the I-AA championship did for Georgia Southern in 1999:


No, the SWAC hasn't had much success in the I-AA playoffs. But the larger issue is that McNeese -- like Georgia Southern -- had great success (they were runner up two seasons ago in their tournament), but couldn't find a way to capitalize on it financially.

Contrast that with the Bayou Classic, which generates hundreds of thousands of dollars for both schools. Literally.

At that level, football is not about respect or even recruiting. It's a business. And black schools depend upon those dollars to survive. That's how you pay for new chemistry labs. Not by losing to Delaware in the third round of an unwatched I-AA playoff game.

Then, there is the rich beauty of a great game. As Sports Illustrated said after this year's Bayou Classic:


Why this incessant worry about what somebody else is doing?

There is no money in I-AA ball outside of black schools, which have the unique quick-cash infusion of set-up games called "classics." Thus you have so many clearly I-AA programs like Arkansas State and Florida International being forced to move up, if only to fail in I-A. They need the money.

And it's why so many black schools are not only staying put in I-AA ... but are scheduling fewer and fewer non-"classics" around their conference schedules. They can make the same money without getting embarrassed.

A McNeese only WISHES it could establish a Soul Bowl, or some such. If they don't soon, they'll probably try to move up, too.

Enjoy what you've got. Heck, REVEL in it. This is a beautiful thing.

well if it is such a joke, why do yall keep throwing rocks at it and talking about it? i suspect that if the SWAC was going the playoff route the sentiment would be flip-flopped and i suspect it will be if the SWAC ever sends teams to the playoffs. enough already if you don't like the playoffs, good stuff with the soul bowls. at the same time more power to the MEAC for evolving I say.

 

[GSU4LIFE]

well if it is such a joke, why do yall keep throwing rocks at it and talking about it? i suspect that if the SWAC was going the playoff route the sentiment would be flip-flopped and i suspect it will be if the SWAC ever sends teams to the playoffs. enough already if you don't like the playoffs, good stuff with the soul bowls. at the same time more power to the MEAC for evolving I say.

Evolving how??????