dacontinent
[QUOTE said:
Invisible creature?? This is evidence that you and I are not talking about the same Person. Man wrote what the Spirit breathed to him to give us the Scriptures.
You have no evidence of anyone inspiring anyone. LOL!! If your theory is correct, then the same entity who inspired the biblical writers must have inspired the writers of other religions that came BEFORE the bible because they have many of the same writings. Go figure.
The tree was located in the garden of Eden, according to the Scriptures. You would be better off saying, “No one that [JayRob] trusts has ever seen such a thing as a tree of knowledge.
Just like I thought, outside of the bible, you can't provide a shred of evidence proving that there ever was such a thing called a "tree of knowledge". Not surprised though.
Nor can it be invalidated. You seem to keep leaving out that part.
You're EXACTLY right, the story of a serpent in a garden cannot be validated. We finally agree.
It has nothing to do with the writings of ancient men. It has everything to do with a modern man known here as JayRob.
Leave JayRob out of this. Just because the writings in the bible were plagiarized from other religions and other writings, it's not fair to blame the messenger.
And I will answer it again: No, Satan will show no love in sending humans to burn in hell forever. What you purport reads like we ought to blame the drill sergeant for the death of the troop who did not follow the orders that he was given.
Keep blaming this being called satan. He was only a convenient tool used to tempt. The real culprit is the one who allowed him access to innocent victims.
All of my fantasies are better than this world that I am living in.
That's what the bible is, a book of fantasies. If that helps you cope with the trials and difficulties of this existence, so be it. I have no problem with that, but just don't purport the bible off as being full of inspired facts because it's not.
A few threads ago you said they were spiritual AND physical. Something has apparently changed your mind. What would that have been?
Please post the exact words where I stated that Adam and Eve were spiritual AND physical. If you can, then I'll clarify. If you can't, then I'll chalk it up as more diversion fodder.
For the purpose of clarity, I am assuming that you ask how much time transpired between the forming of Eve and eating from the tree of which they were forbidden.
The answer is that the Scripture does not say. However, let’s look at what the Scripture does tell us. There was enough time for:
- God to have a day of rest from His labor;
- Adam to name all of the animals;
- Adam to identify plants that were good for food verses those which were not.
So, when you figure out how long that would take you to do as a modern man, then add how long you think it would take for an
ancient and ignorant fella like Adam and get back to us.
What does naming animals have to do with being taught about a serpent whose been around for perhaps thousands of years? Even if it took Adam a year to name animals and plants, it
still wouldn't have been nearly enough time to prepare him for such a being. You're really reaching here with your theories though.
John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
And just what is the context of this scripture? Would you care to share with us what He is talking about there? I will give you hint: it has nothing to do with His capacity to overcome sin. Second hint: the key word here is WILL.
Dacon, when the Jesus character said, "I can of myself do nothing", that clearly meant that he had no power OF HIS OWN to overcome.
He also stated in John 14:10 that, "the father that dwelleth in me,
HE DOETH THE WORKS."
This clearly tells me that if the father wasn't IN this Jesus character via the holy spirit, he wouldn't have been able to do the works that he was doing. Simple isn't it.
How clumsy of me. Please accept my apology.
Answer: Fully equipped to “…Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth (Gen 1:28).”
Did you notice the colon after subdue it:? That means that the text which follows further explains what the text that precedes it just said. Consequently, if the serpent met the qualifications denoted after the colon, then the orders which came before the colon applied to the serpent. So, what should have happened is that Adam should have subdued the serpent … just like he did fish, or strawberries, or collard greens.
Now, since you made no attempt to respond to my question at all, you have not used your 1 attempt. So, I will ask it again:
First of all, how are you characterizing this serpent? If you're characterizing it as a normal physical animal, then you're going against your own bible because the bible says in
Ezekiel 28 that he was very wise and intelligent. It seems that you're knowingly or unknowingly mis-characterizing who the serpent in the garden actually was.
Secondly, if you understand the verse you quoted, you'd realize that everything Adam was given dominion over was PHYSICAL. The serpent, as described in Ezekiel was
spiritually powerful. He's known as "the prince of the power of the air".
Adam wasn't equipped with spiritual power via the
holy spirit to be able to combat this being. You left out a lot that Adam wasn't equipped with.
Why would Jesus NOT need the Holy Spirit to overcome sin?
Please post where I stated that the Jesus character didn't need the holy spirit to overcome. It seems that you're misreading my posts or they're too advanced for you.
[*]Remember to explain why a few threads back you said Adam & Eve had spirits, which would be more “purely physical, nothing more nothing less”.
Again, please post where I stated that Adam and Eve had the HOLY spirit. You must be getting me mixed up with someone else, but please post it.
Remember to identify where it says that the serpent was a “powerful spiritual being”.
Ezekiel 28:12-15. You were the seal of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. 13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone adorned you: carnelian, chrysolite and emerald, topaz, onyx and jasper, lapis lazuli, turquoise and beryl. Your settings and mountings[c] were made of gold; on the day you were created they were prepared. 14 You were anointed as a guardian cherub, for so I ordained you. You were on the holy mount of God; you walked among the fiery stones.
15 You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created till wickedness was found in you.
Now please explain how a weaker and physical bound Adam could compete with such a being.
[*]Remember to tell us how the disciples (and the other seventy) had authority to cast out devils PRIOR to Jesus’ death.
I stated before that it doesn't take much power to be able to cast out demons in Jesus name because other religions do it in their god's name as well as by other means. No big deal so it seems, if other pagans can do the same thing.
Remember to tell us when Adam & Eve sinned and surrendered the authority that God gave them to subdue and have dominion over the creeping serpent.
After reading the verses in Ezekiel 28, do you STILL think the serpent (Lucifer) was a mere physical creature? I hope not.
You asked it and I answered it earlier: God did.
Then there you have it, the GUILTY party. Such a powerful being as the serpent was, Adam would've had to be just as powerful and wise to compete with such a being. Guess what? He wasn't. He didn't have a chance.
Please share with us where you find the limitation of PHYSICAL dominion.
Ironically I found them from the very verse you just posted in Genesis 1:28. Everything mentioned was physical. Adam was given no spiritual authority.
If you are correct about the consistency of scripture throughout, what did Adam have to help him overcome prior to eating the fruit?
Nothing because he wasn't tempted before then.
If Jesus’ deity was not enough for Him to overcome temptations prior to being led into the wilderness, Who helped Him?
Who was it who said, "the father which is in me, HE doeth the works?" Who is the "He" the Jesus character was referring to? the holy spirit, that's who.
Now, by the passage that you chose, we understand it cannot be talking about Adam and us being dismissed from heaven because Jesus’s body is there. It goes on to tell us that our bodies will go there, too. Hence, it is not the physical body of Adam that is earthy but his … wait for it … here it comes … spirit: the element that you said in other threads that Adam had, but in this thread you beg to differ – saying that he was only physical.
Again, this points out one's limited understanding. That's why I always preface the term "spirit" with an adjective....i.e., the HOLY spirit.
Adam had a physical (human) spirit that allowed him to comprehend PHYSICAL things, but he didn't have the HOLY spirit which would've allowed him to comprehend SPIRITUAL things.
Again, Adam was given dominion over physical things, therefore he had to have a human spirit to allow him to do so or he would've been no more intelligent than the animals he was given dominion over.
If you need more clarification, please let me know.
We have debunked this contention of the type of dominion. Moving on.
You thought you did, but you didn't.
One more time: God left the gate WIDE OPEN.
Lessee hurrr … Was Lucifer created with lust? No. Were Adam & Eve created with lust? No. How did Lucifer acquire lust? Could Adam & Eve have acquired lust from the same source? If so, then they could sin without the serpent!
Who tempted Lucifer that was MORE powerful than Lucifer? No one I suppose, so why was it fair and just for Adam to be tempted by a being MORE powerful than himself? Your asessment is not a fair assessment at all.
As far as actually KNOWING if Adam and Eve could sin without Lucifer, they were never given that opportunity, so we'll never know.
What part of James 1 is difficult for you to understand about temptation? Perhaps I can help you.
If one is to be drawn away of his OWN lusts, then that's on him, but why allow a more powerful being to help draw him away to lust? That's where I'm coming from and that's where the blatant injustice comes into play.
Since hell was Satan’s destiny because of the rebellion, he could have been sent there directly to burn eternally without ever having encountered man. So, man would have been protected from Satan…and still left to be protected from himself.
At the least, this would've been the just and honest thing to do, then there would be no excuse. Man would've sinned of his
own volition, not due to being tempted to sin by a being
more powerful than himself.
It is clear that you do not understand the verses, but we have been over that many times in other threads.
Enlighten me again. What will happen to those billions who never heard the name of Jesus?
Since my tears will be wiped away, then I will have no more reason to cry. Deductive reasoning would say that I will not be remembering them any more.
Tears being wiped away doesn't mean that your memory will be wiped away. if your memory is wiped away, then how will you be able to maintain the character that you grew in while here on earth? If your memory is being wiped away, you'd be nothing more than a robot whose mind has been re-programmed and your ability to make your own decisions would be compromised.
The Scriptures where Jesus speaks of the Holy Spirit have the explanation. No addenda needed from me.
This still doesn't explain "why humans need a holy spirit. If they were already equipped to overcome sin and Satan, why the helper?
The were instructed as to what TO do. The Holy Spirit preceded them, just as recorded in the Scripture.
When did the holy spirit enter Adam and Eve? It didn't.
Just being instructed to DO something is not enough. The disciples were instructed for three and a half years to do such and such, yet it didn't keep them from abandoning the Jesus character.
On the other hand, after they had
received the holy spirit, according to the New Testament, they never abandoned him again, and they grew in spiritual character.
Do you now see the importance of the holy spirit being IN a person now?
You are the first person that I have EVER heard make this contention.
You should've learned this in theology school.
It WAS addressed above, but wrongly addressed. It's not fair for the disciples to be granted such extra power via the holy spirit, yet Adam and Eve not given the same opportunities and power. That would be showing a "respecter of persons" if that were the case.
For you to contend that Jesus did not have dominion over the physical is …
Matt 8:25-27. And his disciples came to him, and awoke him, saying, Lord, save us: we perish. 26 And he saith unto them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith? Then he arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm. 27 But the men marvelled, saying, What manner of man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey him!
...significant in the most woeful of ways.
Did you not comprehend my post? I stated that Adam, the first one, only had dominion over the physical. I said nothing about the Jesus character not having authority over the physical.
According to the bible, the Jesus character supposedly had authority over both the physical and the spiritual. It also showed that he had the holy spirit as well, something Adam simply didn't have.
