University of Michigan Affirmative Action Lawsuit


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Da_Sperm

New Member
Originally posted by Dtown Jag
Sperm,

How do you know that?

I said I THINK that is what he understands, I didn't say I KNOW.

We will disagree until the cows come home. AA was meant for qualified minorities to get the same opportunity as equally qualified majorities. Once it became a quota system, it became abused.
 

Dr. Sweet NUPE

New Member
I never said that. If you are going to quote me, quote me. But what I hate most is when people mis quote me by using biased statements to bash someone.

Originally posted by PLOW DOG



What I read is: I've got mine, to hell with the rest.

But then again your young so I understand.
 

Dr. Sweet NUPE

New Member
I cosign....

Originally posted by Da_Sperm


We will disagree until the cows come home. AA was meant for qualified minorities to get the same opportunity as equally qualified majorities. Once it became a quota system, it became abused.
 

Vinita

Let's Go Lions, GO!
There is no way to ever REALLY know why anyone gets a job. I remember the job interview I had at Naaman Forest High School in Garland. I blew that interview out of the water. That man had called me before I even made it back to my apartment. When I was hired, I was one of 3 AAs in that building, and one of 2 in my department.
School districts have quotas to fill, just as in other professions. However, I refuse to believe that the color of my skin got me that job. I'm DAMN GOOD at what I do. That's what got me THAT job, all the jobs after that, and it's what will get me the NEXT job I choose to seek.
 

jag4life

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by Da_Sperm
AA was meant for qualified minorities to get the same opportunity as equally qualified majorities. Once it became a quota system, it became abused.

The quota system was ruled out in the late 70's. AA is still about what your first sentence states. Now, there are quotas in the Federal government's contract awarding policies. They require a certain number of contracts to go to Small Disadvantaged Businesses (SDBs) but white people get around those rules by allowing their wives to be named as the owners and CEOs of their companies.
 

pbla

Focus
It's just like Mighty Dog said when one system is created for fairness another is created to keep it un-equal. We need to create our own banks and then we can finance our own corporations and then we can hire our own people. How many African Americans do you know that have MBA's from Harvard or Stanford are CEO'S of ANY major Fortune 500 company?
 

mighty hornet

The HMIC!!
Originally posted by Dr. Sweet NUPE
One major problem I have with Affirmative Action is that young African American students use it as a crutch and do not focus on the skills to get the job.

It's so sad that an educated man like yourself continually use so many negative stereotypes against your own race of people!
:tdown:

The first thing I was asked was, "How many blacks do you have, and does Affirmative Action play a role." This was before they even gave me the resume. I'm like dayum, can you ask what my division does first.
Yeah right!
These people came in and the first qustion was about affirmative action?

I believe you.

:smh:
 

MsJag4Jag

Moderator
Originally posted by pbla
It's just like Mighty Dog said when one system is created for fairness another is created to keep it un-equal. We need to create our own banks and then we can finance our own corporations and then we can hire our own people.



I agree, and this is why I said we have to push to stand on our own two feet. In other words, perfect the crafts that many of us have...open your own business. Be an entrepreneur instead of the employee. :nod:
 

Dr. Sweet NUPE

New Member
Go and do some recruiting, there are a lot of students who are not dedicated. Students have changed dude. For real. There are too many programs that have been abused. Affirmative Action is one of them. And YES, AA was one of the first things that were asked.

Furthermore these are not stereotypes, these are my experiences. Yours may very well be different. I speak from my experiences not what I want the world to be....


Originally posted by mighty hornet

It's so sad that an educated man like yourself continually use so many negative stereotypes against your own race of people!
:tdown:


Yeah right!
These people came in and the first qustion was about affirmative action?

I believe you.

:smh:
 

Warndalyn

Postmaster General!!!
Some of you seem to think that because AA plays such an important role to us Black Folks getting hired, that it means we are not putting forth our best effort to get hired on our own. No one's saying that. Hell, you think I bulli****ted my way into this position I have, hell no. Like I stated earlier, Canon DOES NOT LIKE TO HIRE BLACKS....period, bottom line. BUT, I still believe that AA played a role in my hiring process. I know I impressed the hell out of them and I have the education and experience to back it up, but had it not been for AA, a lot of us WOULD NOT get hired.

Now, I do know that there will be peeps that abuse anything, but that ain't me. I just know how this country STILL TODAY, operates when it comes to us black folks.
 

Dr. Sweet NUPE

New Member
I don't think less of you....yet there are a lot of young people growing up who feel someone owes them something. They feel AA is a given, when in fact it's not. Just like a lot of things, AA has become a crutch.

Originally posted by Dtown Jag
This by far, does not mean I think less of myself because of AA.
 

MsJag4Jag

Moderator
Originally posted by Dtown Jag
Some of you seem to think that because AA plays such an important role to us Black Folks getting hired, that it means we are not putting forth our best effort to get hired on our own.


That is what many people including the white folks think about those who benefited from AA. I heard it first hand myself from a guy who worked with me at my first aerospace company. He called his friends "white bread". He was trying to go to law school. Then he said that he was certain he'd get in if Affirmative Action didn't keep him out with someone was not qualified...

That is what they think.

:tdown:
 

MightyDog

Well-Known Member
Sometimes our feelings get in the way of reality and we don't fully understand how things are done or how the game is played.

In my travels, I have met a lot of blacks who did not want the system to give them anything. I have met a lot of blacks who have worked very hard to get to the positions they are in, but the one thing in my life experiences is that whites don't allow blacks to compete with them. Most often another position is created if they have to promote a qualified black. Sperm and Sweet let me assure you all that I understand what you are saying and I hope it is that you don't want anyone to give you anything, but let me assure you that I have always felt that way, but the system has a way to stop those of us who want to compete at the highest level. Just as I was told, if you will not become an organizational person then we will find a black that will. These type of folks will go home after accepting BS on the job; being less than a man, then go home and tell their children to be strong. When you stand up for truth and right your head will be blooded often.

AA is a necessary evil, but it works. Now suppose the military which has done a lot in the AA Arena decided not to do business with companies who will not hire qualified blacks, these companies would fail.

We have an unequal education system in America and it is not going to go away. Education is often used as a weapon to discredit blacks rather than be used as the process to allow us to reach our highest potential.

If the system was fair then I would say yes get rid of it, but we are not even close to being fair.

In America we have what I call a one up on you.
In America we all like the same things, but the one up will kill you.
When I go shopping I see a lot of those folk who retired with one grade higher than mine and they are still one up.

Sperm, as I went through the system, it was my goal to ensure that I hired as many blacks as possible and believe me blacks are qualified. But in order to do what I did you have to know what system you are dealing with. For example, I was questioned at one point why I hired so many blacks. I said, when I get a referral list, it contains 8 blacks and two whites. Then I would explain that the whites did beat out two of the blacks but it is impossible for the two to beat out all eight. Now how did that many blacks stack up in the first place? They were all good and well qualified. By going through the system I learned to use the same words that was used on me.

There was a freeze on hiring and their was a pre meeting prior to the meeting I was to attend, but being me I always arrive early. I learned that those supervisors who were in the good old boy network were given premission to hire some new people. Then I got igroant, when I walk in on this and the next question was do you have someone you would like to hire. I said yes and I was told to hire who I wanted to. I didn't have anyone to hire, but I went out and found me one. You mentioned competition and what should be done, but let me tell you this is the real comeptition that I just mentioned. Why do people keep telling us to play golf, because a lot of decision are made on the course.

The #1 guy comes in and say grab your bag and let's go to the Gym. We get to the gym and he says what do you think about old Jim. Now if I say old Jim is not worth a isht, it probably will stand. Then it is me that denied old jim. I would say Jim is an outstanding employee and now my gym invites are down the drain.

Make no mistake, we are not talking about the same thing as it relates to AA.

I am an expert on this topic, believe I have live through it.
 

Robber

Consigliere
It's really sad to read that some people think "quota" when they hear the term "affirmative action". Quotas are downright wrong. But affirmative action isn't. Many qualified people are being looked over simply because of the color of their skin. They can "go and make themselves better", but unless they are Michael Jackson, they can't make themselves white.

For hundreds of years, minorities have been kept out of positions, but after only 20-30 years, white men, and blacks who don't wanna admit that we are still being screwed, think it's time to put an end to affirmative action.

Plow,

I read the exact same thing you read. It ain't just you.
 

CEE DOG

Well-Known Member
It is sad that we think AA is bad. If AA is thrown out the window many of the people that are against it will wish they had supported it believe that.
 

MsJag4Jag

Moderator
Originally posted by CEE DOG
It is sad that we think AA is bad. If AA is thrown out the window many of the people that are against it will wish they had supported it believe that.

What will happen if AA goes away? Then what? I agree it is necessary.
 

CEE DOG

Well-Known Member
I know that there will be less Minorities in Corp. america. I can't speak for other areas but I know for sure that Huntsville,Al. is only second to silicon valley for engineers. Less than 20% of those engineers are black in these companies. The numbers will decrease believe that.
 

EB

Well-Known Member
I just SMH because some do not understand their history.

As some have said here, affirmative action was used to get qualified people hired or admitted to school. I repeat; affirmative action was used to get qualified people hired or admitted to school. Remember. Qualified Black people could not get into the door. Too many people like the present occupant in the White House got in the door long before our people did.

So when a person says that they got hired on their qualifications and not affirmative action, they may have to think twice about that statement. Most African-Americans got in the door due to affirmative action. When a person benefits via affirmative action, it does not mean that they lacked hard work.

BTW in this country Black people basically wrote the book on hard work in this country. Read the history.

Originally posted by PLOW DOG


What I read is: I've got mine, to hell with the rest.

But then again your young so I understand.

PD, I understand what you are saying perfectly. To many of us have the mentality of ?I got mine; you get yours.?

Originally posted by mighty hornet

It's so sad that an educated man like yourself continually use so many negative stereotypes against your own race of people!
:tdown:


Yeah right!
These people came in and the first qustion was about affirmative action?

I believe you.

:smh:

I am cosigning this. :tup:

Originally posted by Robber
It's really sad to read that some people think "quota" when they hear the term "affirmative action". Quotas are downright wrong. But affirmative action isn't. Many qualified people are being looked over simply because of the color of their skin. They can "go and make themselves better", but unless they are Michael Jackson, they can't make themselves white.

For hundreds of years, minorities have been kept out of positions, but after only 20-30 years, white men, and blacks who don't wanna admit that we are still being screwed, think it's time to put an end to affirmative action.

Plow,

I read the exact same thing you read. It ain't just you.

I am cosigning this too. Like PD, I read that same thing you did.

Originally posted by Robber
?...

For hundreds of years, minorities have been kept out of positions, but after only 20-30 years, white men, and blacks who don't wanna admit that we are still being screwed, think it's time to put an end to affirmative action.

?..

Robber, say it some more. I don?t think they heard you.

Again I just SMH because some do not understand their history.
 

MsJag4Jag

Moderator
Originally posted by CEE DOG
I know that there will be less Minorities in Corp. america. I can't speak for other areas but I know for sure that Huntsville,Al. is only second to silicon valley for engineers. Less than 20% of those engineers are black in these companies. The numbers will decrease believe that.


Indeed!

What would you suggest that black people (those who missed the AA boat) do, IF it is done away with?
 

CEE DOG

Well-Known Member
I would love to see more Black owned engineering firms. Without capital you can not start one. Without experiance you can't get a contract, with AA large corp. will get the contracts and therefore you won't keep payroll. We have to understand their are some people who don't understand business therefore they have to work for some one else and their are people who will maintain a business so they can start their own. A company needs a product to stay afloat and with out capital it is hard to get that product marketed.
 

EB

Well-Known Member
Let me give a big thumbs up to the HBCU students who were in DC yesterday. They understand their history.

HBCU students need to watch the Michigan case too. As we know a lot of HBCU graduates attend graduate and professional school at a lot of PWCs. I'll bet that those who were in DC understand this.

Someone may have mentioned this. But let's not forget Prop 209 in CA and the Hopwood decision in TX.
 
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