The Principle Of The Tithe: Law & Grace

[Tiger1]

Just wanted to share an excerpt from the current book I'm reading:

The Blessed Life: The Simple Secret of Achieving Guaranteed Financial Results
Robert Morris
http://theblessedlife.com/

This book has truly been a blessing.

--

Law & Grace

As I haved noted previously in this chapter a common excuse for failing to tithe is, "I'm under grace, not the Law."

The grace of God really is amazing. Yet, far too few Christians truly understand what grace is or how it operates. For one thing, the righteousness of grace always exceeds the righteousness of the Law. This is the essence of what Jesus said in Matthew 5:

Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destory but to fulfill. For asuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say to you that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisee, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven​

In this passage, we see an important truth - the righteousness of grace always exceeds the righteousness of the Law. Notice that each time Jesus points to an Old Covenant Law, He then sets a higher standard under New Covenant grace.

For example, the Law said not to commit murder (Exod 20:13; Deut. 5:17), but Jesus said not even to be angry with your brother (Matt. 5:22) A higher standard! The Law said not to commit adultery (Exod 20:14; Deut. 5:18), but Jesus said not even to look at a woman lustfully (Matt. 5:28). Once again a higher standard.

In other words, the righeousness that grace demands (and Jesus is grace) goes further than that which the Law demands.

Thats why I smile when someone says to me, "I don't tithe because I'm not under the Law. I'm under grace." I respond by saying, "oh, so you give according to grace?" Yes, that right." Then I say, "Great! That means you give much more than 10 percent, because the righteousness of grace always exceeds the righteousness of the Law. It's a higher standard."

The point is that there are certain principles that permeate the Word of God, and tithing is one of them.

Yes when we give according to grace, we will give more than the tithe, but we start with tithing. The first 10 percent should be given as firstfruits offering because it is a bedrock principle in the Word of God.

http://theblessedlife.com/

www.regalbooks.com

 

[dacontinent]

Rather simple, don't you think?

 

[Tiger1]

Rather simple, don't you think?

Indeed!!!

I think the author said it best:

Tithing is not law to me -- it is life!

 

[dacontinent]

Indeed!!!

I think the author said it best:

Tithing is not law to me -- it is life!

I was in college when I learned about tithing. Since my giving was already above that level, it was an easy transition for me. Some really struggle with it; but, I have never found a person who stayed the course who wanted to go back.

 

[illinijag]

Disclaimer: This message is only to those who believe in the one and only true God, the God who provided the Saviour (Jesus Christ).

I don’t think there is any false teaching in the local Church that frustrates me more than the non-Biblical Church Teaching of Tithes. Even when Jesus mentioned it (Matthew 23:23, Luke 11:42, Luke 18:12) to those who were commanded to give it, He was showing how hypocritical they were by doing so to impress man and avoiding the greater issues of judgment, mercy, and faith. The only other time the Tithe is even mentioned in the New Testament is in Hebrews 7:5, in this passage it is clear who are commanded to pay the tithes, so if it is not clear, let me post it for you:

Hebrews 7:5-6. And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham: But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.

Now my Bible clearly states that the Tithes were commanded (not recommended or suggested) to be taken from the brethrens (nation of Israel) and given to the sons of Levi. The brethrens and sons of Levi are not Christians for Christian have no earthly priest to make sacrifices for them. The Hebrew writer greatest point is again showing the Superiority of Christ and how even the Law of the Tithes pointed to Christ as the High Priest ( Hebrews 7:5-28) and that HE (Christ) fulfilled that office. Thus, there is no office of Priest allocated to the Church. We as Christians are a holy priesthood who need no earthly man to represent us before God, through Jesus we have access.

1 Peter 2:5. Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 4:15. For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Again, you guys are missing Christ and focusing in on trivial non-Biblical practices of Church Tithing. You are boasting just as those mentioned by Christ in Matthew 23:23, Luke 11:42, Luke 18:12, before you boast again as a member of the Tithers club remember that the glory you will receive for such works is only of man not God:

Matthew 6:2. Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

Teaching Tithing is teaching works, Christian produces Good works, works produced by the indwelling Holy Spirit. We (who are Christians) are not under a schoolmaster (the law) of do(s) & don’t (s) - thy shall and thy shall not(s); we are led by the Holy Spirit. Thus we give as purpose in our Heart:

2 Corinthians 9:7. Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

And what we (Christians) give and how we (Christians) give is judged by God in this manner:

2 Corinthians 9:6. But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.

For a Christian to feel good about a systematic 10% payment plan (as an act of righteousness) is to view God as no more than a utility or service provider who receives a fixed monthly payment for services rendered.

Before I leave, I have a few questions?

1. Given that Christ fulfilled the office of Priest and is now at the right hand of God. Who are we to Give Tithes to?
2. Where in the Bible are Christians (those not under the law) taught in word or by examples to Pay Tithes?
3. If Christians paid Tithes in the early Church? Why did Paul have to tell the Church to share carnal things with those who provided them Spiritual things (1 Corinthians 9:11; 1 Timothy 5:17)? Would they not use their tithes to provide assistance to the preacher?

It is my prayer that the Local Church would one day remove the Bondage of Tithe and give first themselves to the Lord (as the Macedonians) with all acts and efforts thereafter.

2 Corinthians 8:5. And this they did, not as we hoped, but first gave their own selves to the Lord, and unto us by the will of God.

Tiger1, you seem to be really fascinated with popular preachers and non-Biblical Books. Please don’t pursue these things in lieu of THE BOOK (God’s word) and subject all things to scripture. Also please consider 1 Corinthians 1:26-29 when following those that are popular and widely accepted by man.

Remember, All THINGS BIBLICAL ARE ABOUT CHRIST, if you miss HIM all is lost for no works will suffice.

Colossians 1:15. Who (Christ) is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Although most local Churches do not teach or practiced Christian Giving, God will always have a remnant that will follow His will. As with most things that are truly Godly, you will only find them on a narrow road. Here is a sermon on Christian Giving from one of those Churches:

<!--Begin SermonAudio Link Button--><SCRIPT LANGUAGE=JavaScript type=text/javascript src=http://www.sermonaudio.com/code_sourcefeatured.asp?reversecolor=FALSE&showoverview=FALSE&flashplayer=FALSE&tiny=FALSE&video=FALSE&minimal=FALSE&sermonid=12707114739></SCRIPT><!--End SermonAudio Link Button-->

Link: http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=12707114739

Good Day and God Bless

 

[Tiger1]

Tiger1, you seem to be really fascinated with popular preachers and non-Biblical Books. Please don’t pursue these things in lieu of THE BOOK (God’s word) and subject all things to scripture. Also please consider 1 Corinthians 1:26-29 when following those that are popular and widely accepted by man.

Illinijag, you seem to be very judgemental and we both know what the Word of God says about judging.

Please keep your personal opinions to yourself. If what your saying doesn't line up with the Word of God; you can keep it. Time Out for the DRAMA!!!

Your coming across as a very ignorant individual.

I hope we don't have to address this again.

Thanks
--

1. Given that Christ fulfilled the office of Priest and is now at the right hand of God. Who are we to Give Tithes to?

The church is the visible manifestation of God's Bride.

Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.(Mal 3:10)

For I am the LORD, I change not; (Mal 3:6)

. Where in the Bible are Christians (those not under the law) taught in word or by examples to Pay Tithes?

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel. (Matt. 23:23)

For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath. (Matt. 25:29)

Translation: Those who obey will be blessed. Those who go above and beyond will be blessed even more. But for those who refuse to do even the minimum, He's going to take what they have and give it to someone who will be a good steward with it.

Matthew 6:2. Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

Teaching Tithing is teaching works, Christian produces Good works, works produced by the indwelling Holy Spirit. We (who are Christians) are not under a schoolmaster (the law) of do(s) & don’t (s) - thy shall and thy shall not(s); we are led by the Holy Spirit. Thus we give as purpose in our Heart:

The word translated "tithe" in the Bible literally means "tenth" or a "tenth part".

Do you know what the number 10 represents all through the Bible? It represents testing.

Hebrews 4:15. For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Again, you guys are missing Christ and focusing in on trivial non-Biblical practices of Church Tithing. You are boasting just as those mentioned by Christ in Matthew 23:23, Luke 11:42, Luke 18:12, before you boast again as a member of the Tithers club remember that the glory you will receive for such works is only of man not God:

So I'm boasting now? Wow!!! :lol:

Doc, I understand the principle of multiplication and I clearly understand that God is the master of multiplication.

Look at it this way; Tithing isn't really giving - it's returning. It is bringing back to the Lord what is already His.

Be Blessed!!!

 

[illinijag]

Disclaimer: This message is only to those who believe in the one and only true God, the God who provided the Saviour (Jesus Christ).

Illinijag, you seem to be very judgemental and we both know what the Word of God says about judging.

Please keep your personal opinions to yourself. If what your saying doesn't line up with the Word of God; you can keep it. Time Out for the DRAMA!!!

Your coming across as a very ignorant individual.

I hope we don't have to address this again.

Thanks

Sorry, the truth and things that are contrary to tradition are often offensive. As for judging, I have not judged you. I know not your heart. However, the Bible says:

John 7:24. Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

This is not to Judge one’s heart, for no man can do such. We are to judge what is right according to Scripture. Tithing, as a commandment for the Church, is not Biblical.

Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.(Mal 3:10)

If you believed this applies to the Church, Where are the Storehouses? Do you actually believe that a person can give 10 percent and all of their problems will go away? If you or any Christian is not catching heat from living a Godly life, you should be concerned. Contrary to the Good Easy Street life the feel good books promise, we as Christian do have a guarantee:

2 Timothy 3:12. Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

Shall here does not imply maybe or might, will… A Tithe will not eliminate trials for a Christian under the sun…

1 Peter 4:12-16: Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you: But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

For I am the LORD, I change not; (Mal 3:6)

This has NOTHING to do with Tithes nor does it mean that the Tithes is a continuous practice for the Church; if we are commanded to continue the tithes we should also continue the seventh year Sabbath and the year of Jubilee. Malachi 3:6 apply to God being a Righteous, Just and Holy God; thus HIS Character will never Change. All who falls below God’s required righteousness will be judge; only through CHRIST, is man made righteous.

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel. (Matt. 23:23)

For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath. (Matt. 25:29)

Translation: Those who obey will be blessed. Those who go above and beyond will be blessed even more. But for those who refuse to do even the minimum, He's going to take what they have and give it to someone who will be a good steward with it.

Again. Who is Jesus talking to? Are they not under the law and commanded by the law to pay tithes? Did you not read Hebrews 7:5? The primary focus here (Matthew 23:23) is their hypocrisy and their acts of not focusing on the more important issues. Please read what Jesus says, “You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel†the gnat is the tithes and the camel is the weightier matters of the law (judgment, mercy, and faith). This is the primary reason why people who attend Church are probably worst than the Pharisees, for the Pharisees were commanded to pay a tithes and they considered tithing to be more important than judgment, mercy, and faith. We as Christians are not commanded to pay tithes, yet we do as the Pharisees and focus more on tithes than judgment, mercy, and faith. Judgment, Mercy and Faith is the essence of what is required to be reconciled to God. Thus, Tithing has brought the Church under bondage and is a stumbling block.

The word translated "tithe" in the Bible literally means "tenth" or a "tenth part".

Do you know what the number 10 represents all through the Bible? It represents testing.

We may find some correlation and associations with numbers in the Bible as to how some are used. However, nowhere is scripture does God tell man that number ten represents testing. Thus, for a Christian to teach or respond to numbers (i.e 7, 10, 12,40..etc) as if they have some spiritual or predictive value, such is as following WITCHCRAFT. We are to be obedient to Gods words not to the wisdom of our understanding.

So I'm boasting now? Wow!!! :lol:

Doc, I understand the principle of multiplication and I clearly understand that God is the master of multiplication.

Look at it this way; Tithing isn't really giving - it's returning. It is bringing back to the Lord what is already His.

Be Blessed!!!

God never gave man a formula or guaranteed of a multiplication of blessings based on one particular act. God deals with man through Grace. We need not to ask God what we need to do to receive a blessing from him; we need to ask “HAVE MERCY†in addition to following His word. God gives us even that which we thinks we give to him, if it is any other way, it is not of Grace.

Please follow not tradition or at least subject tradition to scripture. Also, as far as me being ignorant, that too is true; that is why I rely more on scripture than man’s or my own understanding. It is my desire to be thought of as a fool by most who are not apart of the Body of Christ.

1 Corinthians 1:27. But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise

Good Day and God Bless

 

[Tiger1]

If you believed this applies to the Church, Where are the Storehouses? Do you actually believe that a person can give 10 percent and all of their problems will go away? If you or any Christian is not catching heat from living a Godly life, you should be concerned. Contrary to the Good Easy Street life the feel good books promise, we as Christian do have a guarantee:

Reading is Fundamental!

Where in any of my post has this been implied?

This has NOTHING to do with Tithes nor does it mean that the Tithes is a continuous practice for the Church; if we are commanded to continue the tithes we should also continue the seventh year Sabbath and the year of Jubilee. Malachi 3:6 apply to God being a Righteous, Just and Holy God; thus HIS Character will never Change. All who falls below God’s required righteousness will be judge; only through CHRIST, is man made righteous.

Paying tithes was practiced long before the law (Gen 14:20; 28:22) It was commanded under grace in the New Testament (Matt. 23:23; Rom. 2:22; I Cor. 9:7-14; 16-2; Gal. 6:6 Heb. 7:1-10)

Abraham, a type of all Believers, paid tithes to Melchizedek, a Type of Christ (Gen. 14:20) which sets the standard; inasmuch as we are children of Abraham, we are to continue to pay tithes to the Work of God, which, in effect, is the propagation of the Message of Christ and Him Crucified. (Gal. 3:6-7; I Cor. 1:23)

The bottom line is the fact that I choose to Tithe;and whether you choose to or not that is your personal choice.

There is no debating here, you see it one way and I see it another.

O.k.

Be Blessed!!!

 

[dacontinent]

...God never gave man a formula or guaranteed of a multiplication of blessings based on one particular act. God deals with man through Grace. We need not to ask God what we need to do to receive a blessing from him; we need to ask “HAVE MERCYâ€￾ in addition to following His word. God gives us even that which we thinks we give to him, if it is any other way, it is not of Grace.
...

You are correct. However, he did give man a formula and guarantee of multiplication of blessing based on living in obedience to Him - specifically with respect to giving.

Luke 6:38 KJV
Give , and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

Gee ... that sounds a bit like ...
Mal 3:10 KJV

Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.​

More later.

 

[illinijag]

Reading is Fundamental!
:10
Where in any of my post has this been implied?!!!

Come on dude. You used the standard Malachi 3:10 law of tithes passage. This is the classic scare tactic preachers use to get Church folks to give. Such is used to imply that blessings will rain from the sky if a tithe is given.

Paying tithes was practiced long before the law (Gen 14:20; 28:22) It was commanded under grace in the New Testament (Matt. 23:23; Rom. 2:22; I Cor. 9:7-14; 16-2; Gal. 6:6 Heb. 7:1-10)!!!

Ok, let us take a closer look at what is actually being said and done!

Gen 14:20
Abraham was never commanded to give tithes. Neither did Abraham practice tithing, what he gave was of no sacrifice to him it was not from his wealth, it was from a raid. To practice something one must at least repeat the act. Beware of drawing a conclusion to fit your desired end...follow the scripture not the traditional belief.

Gen 28:22
Jacob was not asked to give a tenth. Jacob was a trickster who was trying to bribe God. If you look at Gen 28:14-15 you will see that God told Jacob He would bless him, God does not need 10% to fulfilled that which he already promised. God has stated that if one makes a promise he must fulfill it, Jacob promise may have been one of the reasons why the tithe was commanded from his descendents (God uses all things to fulfill His will).

Matthew 23:23
Again, in Matthew 23:23 Jesus is under the law speaking to people under the law. Grace was realized after Calvary.

I Cor. 9:7-14; 16-2; Gal. 6:6
These passages have nothing to do with tithes. True Christian will support those who work in the ministry, give to the poor and those in need as purposed in their heart. Where are tithes in these passages?

Hebrews 7:1-10
The passage clearly states what the tithe were for and who were to pay them. Am I missing something? Again, the most important point here is that the tithes as with all ceremonial and ritual acts of the law Points to Christ.

Abraham, a type of all Believers, paid tithes to Melchizedek, a Type of Christ (Gen. 14:20) which sets the standard; inasmuch as we are children of Abraham, we are to continue to pay tithes to the Work of God, which, in effect, is the propagation of the Message of Christ and Him Crucified. (Gal. 3:6-7; I Cor. 1:23)

Now you are adding facts with fiction, as most preachers do to push tithing as a command. Abraham was a believer and he paid a tithe to Melchizedek, but no where in scripture is this taught to be a standard, one my choose this to be their standard. The tithe was a commandment to those under the law, not a standard. We are to give for the work of God motivated by God within us, as the Holy Spirit guide us to (i.e. purposed in our heart). The Law was bondage with Do(s) and Don't(s) ,,,we are under Grace, we have the Spirit.

Consider this!
If people do not give they may not have a heart to give, thus they may not have the Spirit in them to give; if this is the case, we should not try to get their money we need to help them get to know Christ. This is where if Judgment, Mercy and Faith are the primary focus (as Jesus stated in Matthew 23:23), all else will be take care of itself.

The bottom line is the fact that I choose to Tithe;and whether you choose to or not that is your personal choice.

There is no debating here, you see it one way and I see it another.

O.k.

This we can agree, if such is your choice as purposed in your heart, do it. Don't demand from others a choice you have made. Also, don't you think our God is too great to relegate him a portion (10 or even 90%)? Why not give all to him in all that you do. This will free you from the gates of percentages and open up you up to grace. If you first give all (you and your resources), His spirit within you will guide your actions.

Also, don't fall for the trick that giving to the Church only is giving to the Lord. Most of what Jesus and the Apostles directed for giving was to the Poor and those in need, this is something you will not hear much preaching on in the Church. The Following is truly giving to the Lord:

Matthew 25:42-45. For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

Now that is Giving to the Lord. It may not result in getting glory from Man, for all that Christ wish us to assist is despised and held in low regard by most men. To do this will place you on the Narrow Road....

Be Blessed!!!

Good Day and God Bless

 

[illinijag]

You are correct. However, he did give man a formula and guarantee of multiplication of blessing based on living in obedience to Him - specifically with respect to giving.

Luke 6:38 KJV
Give , and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

Gee ... that sounds a bit like ...
Mal 3:10 KJV

Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.​

More later.

I agree, there is a difference.

Luke 6:38 is Christian Giving not tithing. This is not a commandment, Christian giving has no bounds in its amount, such is the beauty of Grace.

Malachi 3:10 is the law required tithes, this was required by all under the Jewish Theocracy, not opitional. I know you know this to be true, but somehow we want to led people to believe they are the same.

God is not mocked. Giving, that is absence of a righteous life will get you nothing. God always speak from a position of righteousness, all His blessing implies that "Judgment, Mercy and Faith" is in play. Do the local Church clearly tell the Givers that "Judgment, Mercy and Faith" must be in play before God will return a blessing for their giving? Many Churches will cater their messages to avoid offending the Givers, thus "Judgment, Mercy and Faith" is kicked to the curb.

Good Day and God Bless

 

[dacontinent]

...Malachi 3:10 is the law required tithes, this was required by all under the Jewish Theocracy, not opitional. I know you know this to be true, but somehow we want to led people to believe they are the same...

This is where we disagree. Remember that the only people cited for paying tithe are in Matt 23:23. The use of the word apodekatoo there is quite significant.

...God is not mocked. Giving, that is absence of a righteous life will get you nothing. God always speak from a position of righteousness, all His blessing implies that "Judgment, Mercy and Faith" is in play. Do the local Church clearly tell the Givers that "Judgment, Mercy and Faith" must be in play before God will return a blessing for their giving? Many Churches will cater their messages to avoid offending the Givers, thus "Judgment, Mercy and Faith" is kicked to the curb...

And this is where we are in agreement.
The answer to your question is a resounding YES.
You just seem to disregard that when one gives 20% he has given more than 10%.

More later.

 

[illinijag]

Disclaimer: This message is only to those who believe in the one and only true God, the God who provided the Saviour (Jesus Christ).

This is where we disagree. Remember that the only people cited for paying tithe are in Matt 23:23. The use of the word apodekatoo there is quite significant..

Come on dacontinent, I know that The tithes mentioned in Matthew 23:23 is the same as the tithes in Malachi 3:10. Have you not parsed my actual comment that included Luke 6:38. You would see that I was stating the contrast of Giving in Luke 6:38 to the Commanded Tithe "mah-as-ayr'" in Malachi 3:10. Are you trying to pull a bait and switch tactic?

And this is where we are in agreement.
The answer to your question is a resounding YES.
You just seem to disregard that when one gives 20% he has given more than 10%.

More later.

I do not disregard any amount of giving, where is this coming from? It is not for man to regard what another man gives, that is between God and that man. What I do believe is that if Christians do as God states, God will bless their gift.

It is one thing to believe in God, it is another to Believe God. When one believe God, one will believe His instructions, I believe His instructions as it was given to the Church via Apostle Paul:

2 Corinthians 9:6-7. But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully. Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

I would recommend it to all Christains.

Good Day and God Bless

 

[Tiger1]

Come on dude. You used the standard Malachi 3:10 law of tithes passage. This is the classic scare tactic preachers use to get Church folks to give. Such is used to imply that blessings will rain from the sky if a tithe is given.

You are generalizing. Just maybe the preachers that you know.

Matthew 23:23
Again, in Matthew 23:23 Jesus is under the law speaking to people under the law. Grace was realized after Calvary.

The New Covenant did not do away with the tithe but it clarified what the motives for tithing should be.

God wants us to give, "not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver." The type of giving that God loves is cheerful, freewill giving. This does not mean that tithing is contrary to the New Testament. It is the "fear of punishment" motive, that the Old Testament law attached to tithing, that has been done away with. Giving and tithing are still very much a part of the New Testament doctrine, and if done with the New Testament attitude, are still acceptable to God. Be a giver.

I give cheerfully; not out of fear!!!

Again

The bottom line is the fact that I choose to Tithe;and whether you choose to or not that is your personal choice.

Be Blessed!!!

 

[dacontinent]

Come on dacontinent, I know that The tithes mentioned in Matthew 23:23 is the same as the tithes in Malachi 3:10. Have you not parsed my actual comment that included Luke 6:38. You would see that I was stating the contrast of Giving in Luke 6:38 to the Commanded Tithe "mah-as-ayr'" in Malachi 3:10. Are you trying to pull a bait and switch tactic? ...

No bait nor switch. We simply disagree. You seem to believe that tithing is a command. I don't.

...I do not disregard any amount of giving, where is this coming from? It is not for man to regard what another man gives, that is between God and that man. What I do believe is that if Christians do as God states, God will bless their gift. ...

It comes from you believing that tithing is a command. Someone seems to have convinced you and others that tithing began under the law and wants to command you to give 10%. I'm trying to help you to understand that 10% was a schoolmaster for babes in Christ and mature people ought to have grown from there and be striving to give more because they love God so much that they urgently want to see the Kingdom of God realized. So, the believer who is giving 15-20-30-60% doesn't spend a lot of time talking about tithing except to encourage young believers to have a greater vision about giving.

More later.

 

[illinijag]

Disclaimer: This message is only to those who believe in the one and only true God, the God who provided the Saviour (Jesus Christ).

The New Covenant did not do away with the tithe but it clarified what the motives for tithing should be.

God wants us to give, "not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver." The type of giving that God loves is cheerful, freewill giving. This does not mean that tithing is contrary to the New Testament. It is the "fear of punishment" motive, that the Old Testament law attached to tithing, that has been done away with. Giving and tithing are still very much a part of the New Testament doctrine, and if done with the New Testament attitude, are still acceptable to God. Be a giver.!!!

This is a sales pitch! and is not Biblical. Where is this told to the Church, Where is this in Scripture? Freewill and Tithing are diametrically opposed!

Is it not strange to you that Local Churches promote a false Doctrine so boastfully and Yet NO WHERE IN THE NEW TESTMENT IT IS TAUGHT OR PRACTICE in the Church?
Nowhere does Paul, John, James, Jude, Matthew, Peter or anyone taught or command the Church in words or in Practice to Pay Tithes. There in no Bible written that will change this fact. If Tithes is as the Local Church today promotes, these guys were derelect in their duties (this we know not to be true).

I give cheerfully; not out of fear!!!

Again

The bottom line is the fact that I choose to Tithe;and whether you choose to or not that is your personal choice.

If this is true and you don't Judge others on a non-Biblical Church tithing you are doing what God stated for the Church.

2 Corinthians 9: 7. Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

Be Blessed!!!

The true bottom line is that it really does not matter what I say, I will always recommend scriptural doctrine over my opinions. Search the Scripture for yourself; prove your view to be true with scripture. If your view is based on anything other than scripture you have yield to your wisdom not the wisdom of God.

IOU: I do not have time, but tommorow I will post exactly How and when the Tithing Doctrine and Practices entered the Church.

Good Day and God Bless

 

[illinijag]

Disclaimer: This message is only to those who believe in the one and only true God, the God who provided the Saviour (Jesus Christ).

No bait nor switch. We simply disagree. You seem to believe that tithing is a command. I don't..

Have you been reading anything I wrote. I never stated that Tithing was a command for the Church. The opposite is my primary point!

It comes from you believing that tithing is a command. Someone seems to have convinced you and others that tithing began under the law and wants to command you to give 10% .

Nobody Convinces me of Anything. If I don't see it supported by Scripture "I DO NOT BELIEVE IT". The Holy Spirit is my convictions through God's word as it should be for all Christians. I know I am not perfect and some have even refered to me as being ignorant but I can always say in my defense that my views are based on scripture. Is this not what we are told to do?

Acts 17:11. These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

2 Timothy 3:16. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

I'm trying to help you to understand that 10% was a schoolmaster for babes in Christ and mature people ought to have grown from there and be striving to give more because they love God so much that they urgently want to see the Kingdom of God realized. So, the believer who is giving 15-20-30-60% doesn't spend a lot of time talking about tithing except to encourage young believers to have a greater vision about giving.

More later.

Here again you are adding fact with fiction. Yes the law (including the tithe) is a schoolmaster, such was explained by Paul to show that we are not under Law but under Grace (now led by the Holy Spirit).

Galatians 3:24. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Sounds like you are doing exactly what Jesus accused the Pharisees of..adding to scripture/adding tradition:

Matthew 15:3. But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?

You are implying that 10% is a base, but nowhere in scripture this is stated to the Church, If So show me? In addition, you are implying that as Christians mature they should give more and/or that Christian should give more than 10%. No matter how noble or righteous this may sound, what this leaven laced statement you have made really implies is that God's statement for the Church is not adequate. With your statement you have added to what God stated and what I think is adequate:

2 Corinthians 9:6-9. But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully. Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work: (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.

I Believe God as He stated above and I believe we do not need to add more to it. What is ironic about your statement is that if you only had faith in what God said, what you stated, most likely would be realized. Thus, as Christians grow closer to Christ they lose their desire for worldly things and become more in tune to things that are spiritual, which may result (if such is God's will) in more giving. Now, your leaven laced view, which is not support by scripture, over time becomes man traditional doctrine which usurps the simplicity of Grace listed in 2 Corinthians 9:6-9. Man's traditions are carnal means, carnal means can not mingle with Spiritual Grace:

2 Corinthians 10:4. (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds)

Please Join me and believing what God has stated and render not to the temptation of adding to the simplicity of His words. Christ Freed us from Bondage, we transgress when we go back; I have destroyed my Bondage, it is my hope you do the same.

Galatians 2:18. For if I build again the things (unsupported Biblical Views/Man's Traditions) which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

:lecture:The evidence of true belief in Gods word is the application thereof.

As Christians we must walk by faith in God's word and not by sight (the status of the moment), for more often sight drives us to do more than what God has required.

2 Corinthians 5:7. (For we walk by faith, not by sight)​

Good Day and God Bless

 

[dacontinent]

...Have you been reading anything I wrote. I never stated that Tithing was a command for the Church. The opposite is my primary point!...

Yes, I have been reading what you wrote. That is EXACTLY why I agreed with you on this very point. Apparently you did not read that I already agreed with you on this.

More later.

 

[illinijag]

Disclaimer: This message is only to those who believe in the one and only true God, the God who provided the Saviour (Jesus Christ).

IOU: I do not have time, but tommorow I will post exactly How and when the Tithing Doctrine and Practices entered the Church.

As Promised

Source Wikipedia:

Tithes were mentioned in councils at Tours in 567 and at Mâcon in 585. They were formally recognized under Pope Adrian I in 787.

Source Earl Kelly, Ph. D.
While disagreeing with their own theologians, most church historians write that tithing did not become a legally enforced doctrine in the church for over 700 years after the cross. According to the very best sources it took over 500 years before a local church Council of Macon in France, in the year 585, tried unsuccessfully to enforce tithing on its members. It was not until the year 777 that Charlemagne legally allowed the church to collect tithes. That is the history of tithing found in the Encyclopedia Britannica, Encyclopedia Americana and the Roman Catholic Encyclopedia.



The false Church Doctrine of Tithing was a gift from the Roman Catholic Church many years after the establishment of the Church. I thank God that He allowed Martin Luther to break away from this organization but such proves that often when we are removed from a sinful environment, we bring alone scares and sometimes past sinful practices. This was clearly shown by Lots daughters, God delivered them out of sinful Sodom, but they held on to some of Sodom’s sinful practices:

Genesis 19:33-34. And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose. And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.
Good Day and God Bless

:lecture:It is Always better to be kept from sin than to be rid of it through repentance, for even after repentance, we still may have "the seeds of addition" to past sins we use to practice.

Good Day and God Bless

 

[dacontinent]

...The false Church Doctrine of Tithing was a gift from the Roman Catholic Church many years after the establishment of the Church. I thank God that He allowed Martin Luther to break away from this organization but such proves that often when we are removed from a sinful environment, we bring alone scares and sometimes past sinful practices...

Please do not allow me to put words in your mouth. Please read the following statement carefully before responding.

Are you implying by your comments that tithing is or was a sinful practice?

 

[dacontinent]

Let’s choose not to be frustrated.

This is a big subject and people get touchy about it. I have been teaching on it for 4 weeks in our local church and I have at least 4 more weeks to go. I can’t put it all in this forum, so I have to decide what can be communicated efficiently and effectively. In trying to condense this, I will probably leave out something that links a couple of concepts together. This is a risk that I run. Still, I hope this helps.

Giving – no matter how you do it – is a work ... just like praying, studying, evangelizing, visiting the infirm, etc. There is nothing wrong with works. We MUST have them in order to be rewarded. The problem with works comes in when people believe the ERROR that performing leads to one’s salvation [awarded for our need]. We do not take joy in doing them in order to be saved; the joy comes in delighting to do works because we are saved.

Tithing is certainly Biblical. When Jesus mentions it (Matthew 23:23, Luke 11:42, Luke 18:12), He encourages the scribes and Pharisees to continue in their giving, but chides them for NOT DOING the “weightier” things.

Hebrews 7 tells us that Melchizedek received tithes of Abraham hundreds of years before there was a law given. Hebrew culture, its covenants and promises, its doctrines, liturgy, and convictions, are tied to God through Abraham. Tithing was a part of the tying. It also reminds us that when the law did come along (Moses), it provided for the Levites to receive tithes as their inheritance. It continues with Hebrews theme of the superiority of Christ challenging that even greater than the tithe should be given to Him: The principle being that He that promised is greater and will bless the lesser. We will always be the lesser. Furthermore, it does tell us that the priesthood in the Church is changed from that of the law. Let’s explore the change.

In writing to the Hebrews, the author’s objective is to help Hebrew Christians to make the transition from the law to grace. There was tithing before the law and under the law, and the Hebrew Christian needed to understand it in the new advent of Christ and the grafting in of the Gentiles. The issue really comes down to what principles and practices were to be kept and what would get thrown away. Giving was not going to be thrown away. The ministry and those who worked it need support. The Hebrews were used to tithing as part of their giving practices. So, the author says to us that Christ is the Great High Priest. To the Hebrews that was a simple statement that meant that the work of God in this advent warranted even greater support than that which occurred under the law. So, the Hebrews Christians who were now walking in the ministry of grace would not direct their giving to the Judaic Levites but to the ministry where God was speaking into their lives. Since He that promised is greater, they were now part of an even greater covenant (Ch. 8) than what they had before. The principle is not to abandon the tithe (10%), but that the covenant which we now have with God offers us even greater blessing that what Abraham could understand. Still, there is no command to tithe; merely the expansion of the principle established through the tithe. Those who served in capacity similar to that of the Levitical order would continue to be supported through what was given; administratively and ministerially: from the cleaning of the toilets to the laying on of hands of the presbytery.

There was a particular time in the OT where the bulk of the people basically abandoned tithing and the Levites suffered. There was a period under Hezekiah where the tithing was restored (2 Chr 31). What they found was that when the Hebrew people did right by the Levites in their giving, there was ALWAYS a surplus. [I am convinced that God knew this would be the case when he gave the orders in the first place.] That surplus was used to help those in need (widows and orphans). Consequently, there had to be storehouses built to contain the surplus. That takes us later to Malachi 3 and the understanding that failing to tithes and offerings robs God (of His glory), the ministry (of its inheritance and provision), the certifiably needy (of their prescribed sustenance), and leaves the would-be Hebrew contributor outside the realm of blessing that God has prescribed for him: subjected to the wiles of the Devil like the rest of the world. So, proving God through tithes and offerings puts Him on clear display as it relates to the world being able to recognize that we walk in special favor with God for doing so. This attracts people to us, giving us other opportunities to witness.

Oh, yes … us in this new covenant … are now Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise (Gal 3). What promise? The promises to Abraham BEFORE THE LAW, including the principle of being blessed of the greater in reference to Melchizedek. Please notice that in all of the references given to the Gentiles on giving, the generalization is "as we purpose in our hearts", proportionate sowing and reaping, etc. Why? Because we live in a better convenant than Abraham even imagined. [Yeah, I felt a shout right there!]

As for Charlemagne, the Roman Catholic Church (I am not Catholic), and the COLLECTING of tithes … Nowhere in the Scriptures do you find tithes to be COLLECTED. They were merely to be received. No law anywhere can stop you from giving.

The remainder of this post is just my own surmising.​

So, the question then becomes: If the tithe (10%) is less than what we believers should be giving under this new and better covenant and during these modern times, why bother to make the distinction of the tithe at all? Here are just a few that I find pertinent.

• Distinguishing the tithe as part of the giving helps the local church – where the believer is being reliably fed spiritual things – to be able to budget properly and to be fiscally responsible. Good analysis helps that church understand the portion of giving that can be reasonably relied upon even when some portions of it are seasonal. The giving over and above the tithing can be apportioned to elements outside of the “hard budget”.
• Since those who are on staff will have to live by such budgeting, distinguishing the tithe allows those who will potentially be brought on staff to demonstrate their commitment to support what they will eventually live by.
• It is a great way to teach [schoolmaster] those who are skeptics about giving how to get started.
• It allows the believer to take care of home first; to distinguish his own giving in ensuring support of his local church while being able to apportion other gifts to other ministries, also.

Like everything else, there are abuses to tithing and giving. As long as we have our stinkin’ flesh, we will have to deal with those abuses and abusers.

Again, there is so much that God has laid out in front of us for this that I could not possibly cover here. I hope this helps us along.

 

[illinijag]

Disclaimer: This message is only to those who believe in the one and only true God, the God who provided the Saviour (Jesus Christ).

Please do not allow me to put words in your mouth. Please read the following statement carefully before responding.

Are you implying by your comments that tithing is or was a sinful practice?

First, I will Unload your Loaded Question.

A: Is tithing, as it was commanded by God for the Nation of Israel, is, was or will ever be a sin.

Answer: NO. Tithing as stated in the Holy Bible and as it is practice accordingly is not a sin. Neither have I stated it was not a sin nor have I implied such. To practice what God commands is never a sin.

B: Do I believe that tithing, as forced doctrine/command, for the Church is a sin?

Answer: YES. Tithing is not a command for the Church as written in scripture; thus, it is not Biblical Doctrine for the Church; neither does scripture supports any practice of Church Tithing. If Church has adopted Tithing as a Doctrine/Command such is a sinful act. Thus, they have added that which was not given in Scripture.

C: Do I believe it is a sinful practice for a person to practice tithing?

Answer: No. If any one practice tithing that is their personal choice and their Christian liberty. Again, what a person gives is between them and God and Only God knows their heart (motives & intent). My personal belief is that in all we do (including giving) should be done for the Glory of God. I also believe if you are truly God's Elect, God's Spirit resides in your heart, thus if you only give as purposed in your heart, you will give that which pleases God.

Now back to your loaded question:

Are you implying by your comments that tithing is or was a sinful practice?

Answer: No.

The reason why your question is loaded (lacking clarity) is that it does not distinguish between (1)the Law of Tithes giving to the Nation of Israel, (1) Man's commandment of tithing forced upon the local Church and (3) one's person choice to practice tithing. To give a single answer to your confounded question (without clarification) would serve not to edify the Body of Christ. My comments are not to win a match of views, it is to expose the true meaning of what God has written supported only by what God has written, not what man has claimed. ALL TRUTH SHOULD BE SUPPORTED BY SCRIPTURE. .. anything else is man's wisdom

Your question seems strangely similar to those asked by Scribes, Pharisees and Sadducees of Jesus. Their intent was not for edification but to temp and entrap.

I recommend that you read the Bible with the aid of the Holy Spirit; absence of traditional Church teaching; absence of any preconceive conclusion (exegesis); absence of any man's opinion (including mine) and if it is God's will, He will open up your ears to find truth. Thus, you will see clarity in this matter without frustration. In the end All ceremonial and rituals commanded under the Law points to one Person, that person is Christ.

It is not my responsibility to change one's view, such is God prerogative. I am stating my view based on scripture, which I have found to be one of the least used document, even by those who consider themselves to be Christians. Sadly, most of what is written in this thread is more than what most have ever heard Biblically about Tithing. Most in the Church have only heard this:

Malachi 3:9-10. Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

Most sinners (those who make no claim to be a Christian) will see clear the motive of the Church behind the above Scripture. I love this passage in the primary intent of scripture (when one truly read the whole of Malachi) and the wisdom of God for placing it there.

:lecture: You see, the Bible is written in way that if you have a heart toward deceit, it will send you there and if you have a heart towards righteousness, it will light your path.....
It is easy to parse words and even scripture to meet one's intent...

God Knows the heart and such make the following scriptures rich in wisdom, truth and Judgment:

Galatians 6:7. Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

2 Timothy 3:13. But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

My take: That which is produced in deceit is that which deceives the producer.

Again, when we focus more on Old Testament ceremonies and ritual for a form of righteousness, we miss out on Christ. If we have not Christ, which accompany His Spirit (holy spirit), we have not a righteous intent, thus we will only do that which by nature we are born to do.

Good Day and God Bless

 

[dacontinent]

Illinijag,

Thanks for your delineation. I appreciate that we agree.

For the record, my question was not loaded at all. If you will go back an read your statement, you directly tie tithing among Protestantism as a holdover from whatever was practiced in Roman Catholicism. And, the statement is so wide-open that it could lead to all sorts of conclusions. Rather than jump to any of those conclusions, I wanted you to explain what you meant so we could more forward with clarity.

You did that.

 

[illinijag]

Disclaimer: This message is only to those who believe in the one and only true God, the God who provided the Saviour (Jesus Christ).

Let’s choose not to be frustrated.

This is a big subject and people get touchy about it. I have been teaching on it for 4 weeks in our local church and I have at least 4 more weeks to go. I can’t put it all in this forum, so I have to decide what can be communicated efficiently and effectively. In trying to condense this, I will probably leave out something that links a couple of concepts together. This is a risk that I run. Still, I hope this helps.

Giving – no matter how you do it – is a work ... just like praying, studying, evangelizing, visiting the infirm, etc. There is nothing wrong with works. We MUST have them in order to be rewarded. The problem with works comes in when people believe the ERROR that performing leads to one’s salvation [awarded for our need]. We do not take joy in doing them in order to be saved; the joy comes in delighting to do works because we are saved.

Tithing is certainly Biblical. When Jesus mentions it (Matthew 23:23, Luke 11:42, Luke 18:12), He encourages the scribes and Pharisees to continue in their giving, but chides them for NOT DOING the “weightier†things.

Hebrews 7 tells us that Melchizedek received tithes of Abraham hundreds of years before there was a law given. Hebrew culture, its covenants and promises, its doctrines, liturgy, and convictions, are tied to God through Abraham. Tithing was a part of the tying. It also reminds us that when the law did come along (Moses), it provided for the Levites to receive tithes as their inheritance. It continues with Hebrews theme of the superiority of Christ challenging that even greater than the tithe should be given to Him: The principle being that He that promised is greater and will bless the lesser. We will always be the lesser. Furthermore, it does tell us that the priesthood in the Church is changed from that of the law. Let’s explore the change.

In writing to the Hebrews, the author’s objective is to help Hebrew Christians to make the transition from the law to grace. There was tithing before the law and under the law, and the Hebrew Christian needed to understand it in the new advent of Christ and the grafting in of the Gentiles. The issue really comes down to what principles and practices were to be kept and what would get thrown away. Giving was not going to be thrown away. The ministry and those who worked it need support. The Hebrews were used to tithing as part of their giving practices. So, the author says to us that Christ is the Great High Priest. To the Hebrews that was a simple statement that meant that the work of God in this advent warranted even greater support than that which occurred under the law. So, the Hebrews Christians who were now walking in the ministry of grace would not direct their giving to the Judaic Levites but to the ministry where God was speaking into their lives. Since He that promised is greater, they were now part of an even greater covenant (Ch. 8) than what they had before. The principle is not to abandon the tithe (10%), but that the covenant which we now have with God offers us even greater blessing that what Abraham could understand. Still, there is no command to tithe; merely the expansion of the principle established through the tithe. Those who served in capacity similar to that of the Levitical order would continue to be supported through what was given; administratively and ministerially: from the cleaning of the toilets to the laying on of hands of the presbytery.

There was a particular time in the OT where the bulk of the people basically abandoned tithing and the Levites suffered. There was a period under Hezekiah where the tithing was restored (2 Chr 31). What they found was that when the Hebrew people did right by the Levites in their giving, there was ALWAYS a surplus. [I am convinced that God knew this would be the case when he gave the orders in the first place.] That surplus was used to help those in need (widows and orphans). Consequently, there had to be storehouses built to contain the surplus. That takes us later to Malachi 3 and the understanding that failing to tithes and offerings robs God (of His glory), the ministry (of its inheritance and provision), the certifiably needy (of their prescribed sustenance), and leaves the would-be Hebrew contributor outside the realm of blessing that God has prescribed for him: subjected to the wiles of the Devil like the rest of the world. So, proving God through tithes and offerings puts Him on clear display as it relates to the world being able to recognize that we walk in special favor with God for doing so. This attracts people to us, giving us other opportunities to witness.

Oh, yes … us in this new covenant … are now Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise (Gal 3). What promise? The promises to Abraham BEFORE THE LAW, including the principle of being blessed of the greater in reference to Melchizedek. Please notice that in all of the references given to the Gentiles on giving, the generalization is "as we purpose in our hearts", proportionate sowing and reaping, etc. Why? Because we live in a better convenant than Abraham even imagined. [Yeah, I felt a shout right there!]

As for Charlemagne, the Roman Catholic Church (I am not Catholic), and the COLLECTING of tithes … Nowhere in the Scriptures do you find tithes to be COLLECTED. They were merely to be received. No law anywhere can stop you from giving.

The remainder of this post is just my own surmising.​

So, the question then becomes: If the tithe (10%) is less than what we believers should be giving under this new and better covenant and during these modern times, why bother to make the distinction of the tithe at all? Here are just a few that I find pertinent.

• Distinguishing the tithe as part of the giving helps the local church – where the believer is being reliably fed spiritual things – to be able to budget properly and to be fiscally responsible. Good analysis helps that church understand the portion of giving that can be reasonably relied upon even when some portions of it are seasonal. The giving over and above the tithing can be apportioned to elements outside of the “hard budgetâ€.
• Since those who are on staff will have to live by such budgeting, distinguishing the tithe allows those who will potentially be brought on staff to demonstrate their commitment to support what they will eventually live by.
• It is a great way to teach [schoolmaster] those who are skeptics about giving how to get started.
• It allows the believer to take care of home first; to distinguish his own giving in ensuring support of his local church while being able to apportion other gifts to other ministries, also.

Like everything else, there are abuses to tithing and giving. As long as we have our stinkin’ flesh, we will have to deal with those abuses and abusers.

Again, there is so much that God has laid out in front of us for this that I could not possibly cover here. I hope this helps us along.

dacontinent

I have been at the verge of posting a reply to this post at least four times since my first reading. There is so much here that is misleading and unsupported by scripture, but instead of uploading my lengthy reply I will make these last recommendations to all.

1. Always Pray to God for true revelation and intent of His word.
2. Read Hebrews 7 and compare what you read above.
3. Listen to the Sermon I posted and subject it to Scripture (believe only that which you can confirm)
4. If you believed or don't believe what I or others have posted, find verification in scripture. In my postings I listed scriptures for my belief.
5. Finally, SUBJECT ALL THINGS TO SCRIPTURE. There are many traditions that have infiltrated the Local Church and many decieve those who walk by sight and not by faith.

Proverbs 14:15. The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going.

:lecture:If we do not our due diligent in "Subjecting all things to Scripture†and we are deceived, we have in-fact become a willing participant in our own deception.

Good Day and God Bless

 

[dacontinent]

Disclaimer: This message is only to those who believe in the one and only true God, the God who provided the Saviour (Jesus Christ).



dacontinent

I have been at the verge of posting a reply to this post at least four times since my first reading. There is so much here that is misleading and unsupported by scripture, but instead of uploading my lengthy reply I will make these last recommendations to all.

1. Always Pray to God for true revelation and intent of His word.
2. Read Hebrews 7 and compare what you read above.
3. Listen to the Sermon I posted and subject it to Scripture (believe only that which you can confirm)
4. If you believed or don't believe what I or others have posted, find verification in scripture. In my postings I listed scriptures for my belief.
5. Finally, SUBJECT ALL THINGS TO SCRIPTURE. There are many traditions that have infiltrated the Local Church and many decieve those who walk by sight and not by faith.

Proverbs 14:15. The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going.

:lecture:If we do not our due diligent in "Subjecting all things to Scripture” and we are deceived, we have in-fact become a willing participant in our own deception.

Good Day and God Bless

Thanks.